Why not make drifter incursions take over/destroy sov structures then expanding to nearby systems when one is overrun? Make them attack everything inside the system, explorers, ratters, miners, Pos, stations etc.

Ships are intended to explode in this game. Capsuleers are immortal, you remember? There is no such thing as suicide.

It seems like years of consequence-free PvE content as raised a cohort of players that have forgotten the first rule of Eve - don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.

Incursion runners are now going to lose ships on occasion, even if they do everything correctly. Just go get another one like every other Eve player has to from time-to-time. That, or go back to farming L4s until CCP gets around to revamping those as well.

I didn't look who's I'm quoting, sorry.
If "challanging" is oneshooting everything below titan, good for you. If I get shooted despite any action I perform, do you called that a fight? If reward will be greater than risk (losing ships to them) it's still stupid as hell. Obligatory loses? Propably new module/ship will come to deal with them.

CCP just wants to stimulate losses to drive the economy.

Losing one ship in a fleet does not make it not a fight. The rest of the fleet will destroy the drifter and the evil NPCs will be defeated again.

Players will find ways to beat these Drifters and not lose ships all the time. But on occasion, more than happens now, ships will be doomsdayed off the field by the Drifters.

I think the same will happen with incursions. They made these incursions that resulted in very little incursion activity in low and null but great big whopping blobby blinged out incursion farming communities in high sec, because high sec is so safe and the incursions so predictable that risking a 5 bil isk ship isn't a risk at all.

So NOW they are making incursions that more resemble what the originals should have been: Desperate affairs for cheaper ships where losses are unavoidable but not fighting at all is a worse option. You can't just bling your way to glory with a Drifter Incursion, you NEED to fly cheap as possible and be prepared to replace that lose. As others in this thread suggest, it might even been intended as a boon for the economy, because frankly, other forms of pve are so predictable and safe that ship losses are rare without outside player interference.

I take back my previous opinion of Drifter Incursions. BRAVO CCP, no you are getting it. For you nay says, just make a disposable Moa or Maller fleet and lets have at them Drifters.

Exactly. These feel much more like the original intention of the Sansha Incursions - group content that is challenging, unpredictable and perhaps even a little forced on you to shake those who just endless grind the same missions in the same place out of their comfort zone.

Why should a sandbox game force anyone to do anything? If someone is happy grinding missions leave them be I say. If someone wants to gank miners in high sec, have fun. I'm sure some people relocate during Sansha incursions to continue their missions and mining thereby not forcibly subjected to content of which they have no interest.

I ask again Pedro, why would a sandbox based game force players to do anything?

Some of y'all are missing the big picture.

If you look at CCP's development of PVE content over the years, you notice a pattern: They make something, and that something is general built upon a high minded but ultimately unrealistic principle (like risk/reward being higher the further you go into danger, not understanding that many people will simply stay in safety and bleet on a forum about how they need mroe reward in safe space lol).

They will then see how things go, notice the unintended consequences. THEN they will put out a new version that learns from the lesson of the 1st thing. They did it with missions ,up to lvl 4s in high sec, 5s in low sec, pirate 4s in npc null, each level of mission haivng mroe and more battleship NPCs. They finally figured out that the problem with missions in dangerous space was that battleships took so long to kill that those missions became targets for people trying to force pvp.

So the fix was missions like the pirate epic arcs and FW missions and lately burner missions. Mission for fast, small ships that can survive in dangerous space and finish the mission quickly. And it works, people farm FW missions and low sec/null sec burners.

I think the same will happen with incursions. They made these incursions that resulted in very little incursion activity in low and null but great big whopping blobby blinged out incursion farming communities in high sec, because high sec is so safe and the incursions so predictable that risking a 5 bil isk ship isn't a risk at all.

So NOW they are making incursions that more resemble what the originals should have been: Desperate affairs for cheaper ships where losses are unavoidable but not fighting at all is a worse option (the original incursions changed the entire constellation to batop all other actvity, meant to encourage people to kill the incursion as soon as possible). You can't just bling your way to glory with a Drifter Incursion, you NEED to fly cheap as possible and be prepared to replace that lose. As others in this thread suggest, it might even been intended as a boon for the economy, because frankly, other forms of pve are so predictable and safe that ship losses are rare without outside player interference.

I take back my previous opinion of Drifter Incursions. BRAVO CCP, no you are getting it. For you nay says, just make a disposable Moa or Maller fleet and lets have at them Drifters.

I hope so anyway. Let's hope CCP gets it right and sticks to their guns unlike last time the incursion community threw a tantrum when the ISK faucet was closed just a bit.

I think though that most reasonable people will agree that a universe where something is happening is more interesting than one that remains perpetually the same.

The beauty of Eve, since the beginning, is that something IS always happening. The tools are given by CCP and the memorable content, at least since I started in 2004, is made by the players. I think incursions are fantastic as they bring together people from various corps and alliances, etc. But the content is still driven by the players based on the "tool" of incursions that CCP provided.

I also think CODE, or groups like it, is fantastic as it generates content. Hell, I miss Hulkageddon. EvE thrives on player created content grown from pushing the boundaries of the tools created by CCP. THIS is what makes it unique among MMO's.

Something is always happening in EVE; if you think not, then go make something happen.

After 24 months of that players burn out and leave the game, while players that socially interact with other players, engage in conflict and the greater universe of New Eden stay much longer.

Can one not socially interact by being a member of a mining, industrial, mission running corp that has no interest in Incursions, PvP or low or null sec space?

Of course that is possible. I am not sure why you are so defensive.

But there is a huge collection of "leveling my Raven" players who do nothing else but run missions by themselves or solo mine who end up quitting Eve early. Far from it for me to tell them how to spend their free time, but I can see why CCP would want to encourage them to engage more with the game and incursions are one way to do it. There is a small chance that if an incursion shows up, they might choose to join up with other players to fight, or if not, at least move somewhere else and potentially meet new people.

Incursions probably have a very low success rate at that, but it is better than nothing.

I would couch my argument not so much as defensive but more astonished. Astonished that people continue to think there is a proper or better way to play EvE. Also, I'm not picking on you personally it's just that I've been seeing a theme, and you're the one I chose to respond to. ;)

Some people will love the game and stay until it well and truly dies (soon (tm)). Others will enjoy the game for a few years or months and move on. I would suggest that that is more a reflection of their overall gaming style than anything else and that no amount of player or CCP created content will change this.

Your 'astonishment' comes from a misunderstanding of what is being said. No one is making any judgments about how anyone plays (and why people always thin this is beyond me), Black Pedro is just stating a fact, people that interact in certain ways stay longer, and if CCP is going to pick a direction to develop in, it's wiser to develop the game in a way that facilitates interaction.

The fact that you know someone that oddly stays tied to a small area of a video game isn't particularity relevant. No one is trying to tell him or you how to play, but rather we're having a discussion about how things really work in this game.

Also, the idea that nothing CCP does will affect whether people stay or leave is demonstrably false, monocle-gate proved that.

Hey guys. This doesn't kill the sandbox. Fozzie sov doesn't kill the sandbox. Sandbox means you can go around doing what you want. If you want to engage this new content you can. If you don't want to, you can go to the over 2000+ systems not effected by drifter incursions and do stuff there.

No one is forcing anything.

I think people are talking about the fact that (theoretically) if no one does anything the incursion will eventually cover all of K-space so there will be nowhere to go to, thus forcing you to either run the incursions or not undock.

I think that drifter incursions will end up in alpha ships , and hit & run tactics.
We will see.

I hope that CCP will move sansha incursion to low/null only.

Exactly. These feel much more like the original intention of the Sansha Incursions - group content that is challenging, unpredictable and perhaps even a little forced on you to shake those who just endless grind the same missions in the same place out of their comfort zone. Ships will be lost and stories will be made, more interesting stories than "I just made another 800M ISK last weekend doing the exact same thing I did the weekend before while watching Game of Thrones".

I hope so anyway. Let's hope CCP gets it right and sticks to their guns unlike last time the incursion community threw a tantrum when the ISK faucet was closed just a bit.

IF they move to highsec...
IF there's a meaningful reward...
IF there's a point (=dead drifters + rewards) to play logi for those poor devils in Amarr Navy...
IF risk/reward balances as my previous interactions or better (losses: 900 million; rewards: 150 million, fun: good enough)

...then I may bother to RP and "defend my homeland". Specially if it's viable without flying in multi-billion fits.

What I won't do is move a multi-bilion ship to low, risk being ganked or whatever, in order to earn less than a Level 4 and then lose my ship in the process. My time is more valuable than that.

Add NPC stations and mission runners to that list while we are at it

Absolutely anything they encounter.
Purpose being to make players get together and react to the threat without a "material" motivation.

not everyone wants to shoot npc's, we aint all carebears

well its kinda just forcing everyone to do pve, could just turn out to be a 3rd party fight where the defenders end up getting out numbered by attackers because someone decided to drop ships on the defenders while the npc's were attacking, pvp + pve mixed together, that would cause tears