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Fleet commanders not getting their own bonuses is just wrong.

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Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.03 06:56:00 - [1] So you train up 5 leadership skills to 5, spending 70 days of training and you form a gang and you dont even get your own bonuses? That is just wrong. Why should commanders not get their own bonuses? Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.12.03 07:17:00 - [2] Good point.. CCP? KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat..
Vendrin Caldari APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2006.12.03 07:19:00 - [3] I think it makes things rather interesting. Now if the enemy knows who the Fleet commander is they can take him out more easily and throw the other fleet into dissaray and get rid of the bonuses. Makes them need to protect the fleet commander which is smart. _____________________________________ APEX Unlimited is recruiting. Join channel APEXCOM for information!
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.03 07:21:00 - [4] Seems fair, how about the fleet commander gets 0.5% resistance for each person under his command. It would require about 100 people + Harderns to make it broken. ----------- Management and Leadership
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.12.03 07:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 03/12/2006 07:28:50 Originally by: Vendrin I think it makes things rather interesting. Now if the enemy knows who the Fleet commander is they can take him out more easily and throw the other fleet into dissaray and get rid of the bonuses. Makes them need to protect the fleet commander which is smart. What about small gangs were every ship getting a bonus counts far more than a huge fleet spamfest? And what fleet fight have you been to that didn't have the commander getting instapopped like all the rest of the targets when he eventually gets called primary.. Take away the bonus and you only waste 2% less of the entire fleets salvo thats got wasted in the first place after the first 50 BS hit him out of a 300 ship blob.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat..
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.03 07:37:00 - [6] sigh -You can make as big as a gang you want up to 251 people (new system) or 50 (old system, no bonuses) -People that have gang bonuses and the new gang skills need to be in the correct positions (the higher, the more efficiently you give bonuses) -The skills applied are : If you have Leadership, you can be up to squad commander and give bonuses If you have Wing Command, you can be up to Wing Commander and give bonuses If you have Fleet Command, you can be Fleet Commander (give everyone bonus) -There are 4 roles at this moment inside a Fleet Gang : Boss : oldtype gang leader, he can do anything Commander : he can do anything to the people below him (invite, gang warp, kick), there is a Fleet Commanders, 5 Wing Commanders and 25 Squadron Commanders) Scout : He gets various commands that normal members don't get Squad Member (grunt) : normal gang member This means that you can have the normal leader again that can do anything, and the people that give bonuses are "commanders". Just be sure that the one that you have with the Gang modules/skills aren't idiots and warp the gang to a massacre. Note : some parts of the above can be wrong _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Fanjita	Posted - 2006.12.03 08:04:00 - [7] Fleet commanders do get there own bonuses so long as they are squad commander, wing commander, or fleet commander and have the relevant skills
Dammar Ephorate	Posted - 2006.12.03 09:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Fanjita Fleet commanders do get there own bonuses so long as they are squad commander, wing commander, or fleet commander and have the relevant skills I think this is probably true since, me with my basic leader skills can get my own bonuses and my alt gets them as well IF i do the following things: -make gang -convert to fleet -get into a squad with me as commander and my alt as member of that group This leaves the FC and WingCmdr positions empty, but it doesn't seem to matter, skills apply to both pilots. It actually works just like before even. i.e. you just have to be in space in the same system, not in the same grid and you get the bonuses.
Xanath Fireheart Caldari Under Heavy Fire	Posted - 2006.12.03 10:48:00 - [9] This is my current understanding of the bonus application in the new 'fleet' system... It might be wrong... Fleet Commander (req. Skill û Fleet Command) Fleet Commanders can apply gang bonuses to one Wing per level of the Fleet Command skill up to a maximum of five wings. Wing Commander (req. skill û Wing Command) Wing commanders can apply gang bonuses to one Squad per level of the Wing Command skill up to a maximum of five squads. Squad Commander (req. skill û Leadership) Leader can apply gang bonuses to two squad members per level of leadership û This includes the leader himself, up to a maximum of 10 members. Gang (req. skill û none) Simple gangs no longer get any gang bonuses. Fleet commander bonuses are passed down to all gang members unless their skills are superceded by a Wing Commander or Squad Commander, in which case the æbetterÆ skills are passed down to all those below them.
Flex Carter Caldari Caldari Independant Mining Association	Posted - 2006.12.03 12:32:00 - [10] ItÆs early yet, but constantly hearing on TS and/or reading in gang chat ôWhat level is your Leadership skill at? Who's got the Wing Command skill? WhoÆs flying with warfare links? I need to be moved to this or that squad for shield/armor bonusö is getting pretty tiresome, not to mention confusing. ItÆs true we all like to fly with competent Fleet Commanders and the new patch helps to put those pilots in key roles but it seems now the system is cancelling out what dedicated ôsupportö members can bring to the gang or fleet.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.03 12:45:00 - [11] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/12/2006 12:45:31 Originally by: Flex Carter ItÆs early yet, but constantly hearing on TS and/or reading in gang chat ôWhat level is your Leadership skill at? Who's got the Wing Command skill? WhoÆs flying with warfare links? I need to be moved to this or that squad for shield/armor bonusö is getting pretty tiresome, not to mention confusing. ItÆs true we all like to fly with competent Fleet Commanders and the new patch helps to put those pilots in key roles but it seems now the system is cancelling out what dedicated ôsupportö members can bring to the gang or fleet. I hope they improve things in version 2. What I want is someone setting up a password protected gang, and others can join it if they know the password. In the gang you would see what bonuses everyone can contribute with IF they were leaders. So the leader could easily move people around to make the gang as efficient as possible. I had a thread on it before, I hope someone at ccp read it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Vendrin I think it makes things rather interesting. Now if the enemy knows who the Fleet commander is they can take him out more easily and throw the other fleet into dissaray and get rid of the bonuses. Makes them need to protect the fleet commander which is smart. Yeah because making the command ship in the fleet primary is such a difficult and tactic. Forcing the fleet commander to wear a sign that says SHOOT ME FIRST PLEASE is uncool. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.04 02:42:00 - [13] the reality is that the posters above that said we are getting the leadership bonuses for ourselves are just wrong. AGONY tried this out extensively last night and even the blog on the gang command implies that the commanders dont get their own bonuses. This is wrong after many of us have spent months training these skills. Its bad enough to screw everyone with the foresight to train survey 5, but this basically causes about 4 months of my training to be wasted as I dont even get those bonuses and that is DEFNINTELY not cool. Does CCP want people to train up leadership skills or would they prefer we bring along an alt that has them as a disposable entity? Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Pick Me	Posted - 2006.12.04 03:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Rells the reality is that the posters above that said we are getting the leadership bonuses for ourselves are just wrong. AGONY tried this out extensively last night and even the blog on the gang command implies that the commanders dont get their own bonuses. I don't know about the blog or the test that Agony did, but I can assure you 100% than the commander is getting his own skills in a 2 ship fleet because I just tested it on TQ and it's working. The strange thing thou is that the commander get it's bonus as soon as the gang is converted to a fleet, then the members (in my case) only get the bonus when the commander is moved to the Squad leader position (not changing the commander bonus he was already getting). Members seem a lot more affected with the 'in the same grid' then the leaders. Probably have to do with the performance
Caerleus Salvage Inc	Posted - 2006.12.04 04:01:00 - [15] I form gangs with my alt and quite happily get leadership bonuses. gang - fleet - me squad commander - alt squad member... Eve is like a new girlfriend - you know its going down at some point, its just when and for how long.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:20:00 - [16] I know what I saw. Perhaps it was just too bugged but what was there was indisputable. I have many imperfections but halucenation isnt one of them. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:41:00 - [17] The new gangs are buggy as hell to be quite honest. There seems to be an increase in lag associated with the overview, the overview is sticking and not updating so that it's difficult for Commanders to see who's in their sqds/wings and bonuses are not being applied consistently (have seen plenty of occasions where the green light is on but both skill based and command module based bonuses are not being applied correctly. Aside from the current issues with the code/functionality when building gangs it is a major pain in the behind setting gangs up properly and assigning people to the right squads based on the commanders bonuses. These issues wouldn't be so bad if you only had to build a gang once and then carry on all day with it but with people coming and going offline and node crashes like lastnight it is a tedious to say the least. Adding some more functionality to gangs and introducing some more tactical elements to setting up your fleet is a good thing but on a large scale it's a real fun killer at the moment. We need a bit of tweaking before the new fleet system is really achieving much. Blog
Gemini Zero Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:54:00 - [18] There seems to be some confusion over what is going on here. During our tests Agony has seen commanders being able to give their squads bonuses. What Rells was initially saying is that when he set up two squads with himself as Wing Commander, the squads were receiving bonuses, but Rells the Wing Commander, recieved no such bonus. So just forming a fleet with a two person gang and saying your bonuses worked is great, we agree with you there. We would like to hear more from people who have formed a fleet with multiple squads or even wings and how the bonuses panned out. Thanks :)
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:30:00 - [19] Originally by: FFGR -You can make as big as a gang you want up to 251 people (new system) or 50 (old system, no bonuses) 256 - 250 squaddies, 5 wing commanders, 1 fleet commander, as I understand it.
Masu'di Es and Whizz	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:40:00 - [20] yeh we had some trouble with this too. i think it would be great for the different gangs to be able to form up seperately, then the wing commander can just invite the gang as a whole, by sending an invite to each gang leader.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Blacklight The new gangs are buggy as hell to be quite honest. There seems to be an increase in lag associated with the overview, the overview is sticking and not updating so that it's difficult for Commanders to see who's in their sqds/wings and bonuses are not being applied consistently (have seen plenty of occasions where the green light is on but both skill based and command module based bonuses are not being applied correctly. Aside from the current issues with the code/functionality when building gangs it is a major pain in the behind setting gangs up properly and assigning people to the right squads based on the commanders bonuses. These issues wouldn't be so bad if you only had to build a gang once and then carry on all day with it but with people coming and going offline and node crashes like lastnight it is a tedious to say the least. Adding some more functionality to gangs and introducing some more tactical elements to setting up your fleet is a good thing but on a large scale it's a real fun killer at the moment. We need a bit of tweaking before the new fleet system is really achieving much. QFT, its adding to the paperwork involved and very hard to keep track of things on the fly. Server stability and nodes crashing just adds to the fun. F4T4L is Recruiting!
joefishy S.A.S	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:50:00 - [22] yeah its annoying ... ts is like whos got what and where sort of thing, and when you got members with 8mil sp in leadership and cant hand it out to everyone its annoying, personally i think this should be changed back to old system where gang bonuses go to all and not this stupid squad stuff SAS - The un-official isk sink of the game. my last vid
Schlauke Gallente Zooner Corp G.U.A.R.D.	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Gemini Zero There seems to be some confusion over what is going on here. During our tests Agony has seen commanders being able to give their squads bonuses. What Rells was initially saying is that when he set up two squads with himself as Wing Commander, the squads were receiving bonuses, but Rells the Wing Commander, recieved no such bonus. So just forming a fleet with a two person gang and saying your bonuses worked is great, we agree with you there. We would like to hear more from people who have formed a fleet with multiple squads or even wings and how the bonuses panned out. Thanks :) Yesterday we had a Fleet with about 18 People going, Setup was like this: - Fleet Commander (Without Fleet Commander Skill, so no Bonus for him or the Gang) --Wing Commander (Me, Wing Commander Skill to Level 2, Bonus for me and both Squads) ---Squad 1 (9 People with Squadleader with Leadership Level 5 (Max of 10 People)) ---Squad 2 (7 People with Squadleader with Leadership Level 4 (Max of 8 People)) As far as I know both Squads and I got Bonuses from my Leadership Skills, but the Squads got them only when they had a Squad Commander with the required Leadership Skill in the same System. So you get your own Bonuses and give your Bonuses to those under you in the Chain of Command, but ONLY if the Chain of Command is not broken!
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:35:00 - [24] So how do I get my Mining foreman bonuses back? Leader of 3 + mining foreman seems like no setup grants anyone the bonus from mining foreman. If I'm reading this correctly it's saying I have to max leader so I can pick up a command skill just to get the bonus from Mining foreman?
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 18:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot So how do I get my Mining foreman bonuses back? Leader of 3 + mining foreman seems like no setup grants anyone the bonus from mining foreman. If I'm reading this correctly it's saying I have to max leader so I can pick up a command skill just to get the bonus from Mining foreman? The Mining Foreman skill increases your mining bonus, and your leadership skill determines how big a squad you can give this bonus to. It's 2 pilots per level of leadership afaik, so if you say you can't give bonuses with 3+ in squad, try training leadership to lvl2 :) --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
VaderDSL Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.04 20:18:00 - [26] I couldn't get the bonuses to filter down :( another person formed the gang and converted to fleet and so was the boss // commander with no fleet command skill. I was wing commander with lvl 1 wing command with 1 squad of 10 people with no squad commander, i have lvl 5 for all the gang bonus skills. but no one saw any bonuses, do I need a squad commander with leadership 5?
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.05 00:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Vendrin I think it makes things rather interesting. Now if the enemy knows who the Fleet commander is they can take him out more easily and throw the other fleet into dissaray and get rid of the bonuses. Makes them need to protect the fleet commander which is smart. Yeah because making the command ship in the fleet primary is such a difficult and tactic. Forcing the fleet commander to wear a sign that says SHOOT ME FIRST PLEASE is uncool. They're looking at the idea of making it so a commander cna defer bonus-giving to another person. So You might be the Squadron commander, but have me in my CBC and 6 warfare links, giving our group bonuses. Enemies see you and call you primary, you pop, our squad still has bonuses. Or they pop me, and it goes back to you giving the bonuses (I would assume). Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.12.05 02:12:00 - [28] I got it to work finally. Had to form the gang, change to fleet, Recruit members to a squad, then demote myself to squad leader.
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 03:21:00 - [29] Wing commanders need to get the ability to move people from wing to wing this would really make life easier for the commanders and the gangs in general! Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
trollface2 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.06 21:04:00 - [30] Edited by: trollface2 on 06/12/2006 21:11:58 Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members. A normal Squad Member how ever can receive bonuses from three possible parties: his Squad Commander, his Wing Commander or the daddy Fleet Commander himself. So no commander gets benefit from the higher commanders skills/talent - and squad comander doesent get from his squad - its messed up tbh - It should be - Fleet commander - Gives bonuses to ALL members of his fleet - Wing Commander - Gives bonuses to ALL members of his wing And Fleet Commander - Squad Commander - Gives Bonuses to ALL His squad and Fleet/Wing Commanders - Squad Member - Give bonuses To Squad and Squad Commander - (ofc highest skill only not collective) The way it is right now makes it like this - trollface2 > nothing..... its like havin a squad in rl with a medic who dont wanna heal u, a signaller who dont wanna talk and a gunner who is scared of loud noises. Haha an ingame rant but is funny aswell as the truth

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