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Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:44:00 - [91] Originally by: Halca It's about as lame as constantly dismissing people because a) they haven't played as long as you or b) because they aren't part of some blob alliance. Just because you're new doesn't make you stupid, just because you're old doesn't make you wise. Keep dragging that argument up though, because it's a great evade when you don't want to answer something. -Halca out ^.^ I'm not evading anything, I am merely pointing out that you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about and am challenging you to prove me wrong. Give me examples, give me facts, give me similar situations from history within Eve that apply to your arguments regarding the BoB and ASCN war.... in short give me some substance to your claims. I'm serious you've done nothing but deliver ridiculous statements based on zero fact whatsoever (largely because in my humble opinion you've probably never been near the sharp end of an alliance war in eve as long as you've been playing the game). So facts, examples, proof and logical arguments please. Let's have it. Blog
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:45:00 - [92] Originally by: Rod Blaine What he means to say is that you have no basis of experience to judge an alliance's strenth accurately. Or do you ? I thought so. Yes because it takes years of analysis, some math degrees and the all important doctorate in forumology to realise that a massive industrial alliance, which is reknowned for being industrial, has never gotten into many big fights on it's own and has one of the biggest memberbases is sure to be a monster when it comes to dedicated pvp. -Halca out ^.^
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:46:00 - [93] Edited by: Halca on 07/12/2006 13:46:54 Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Halca It's about as lame as constantly dismissing people because a) they haven't played as long as you or b) because they aren't part of some blob alliance. Just because you're new doesn't make you stupid, just because you're old doesn't make you wise. Keep dragging that argument up though, because it's a great evade when you don't want to answer something. -Halca out ^.^ I'm not evading anything, I am merely pointing out that you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about and am challenging you to prove me wrong. Give me examples, give me facts, give me similar situations from history within Eve that apply to your arguments regarding the BoB and ASCN war.... in short give me some substance to your claims. I'm serious you've done nothing but deliver ridiculous statements based on zero fact whatsoever (largely because in my humble opinion you've probably never been near the sharp end of an alliance war in eve as long as you've been playing the game). So facts, examples, proof and logical arguments please. Let's have it. Give me a counter argument worth arguing instead of dismissing what I say because of my age or lack of big alliance membership. -Halca out ^.^
Mariko San Saints Surrounded	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:49:00 - [94] Originally by: Rod Blaine What exactly, assuming you knew upfront that ASCN was going to turn out a paper tiger (which it only is in relation to BoB, I fully think they'd keep D2 at bay tbh), stopped everyone else from rolling them up before we did ? It's not like they had all of Eve napped now is it ? Final post then back to the grind. No-one is saying ASCN are bad, just that they are not, and never were, "as dangerous as" (to quote BL) BoB. ASCN are friends with LV, D2 are (as one of your friends has mentioned earlier) miles away so why would they try to "roll over" ASCN and, until recently, ASCN and BoB were pretty friendly. So who was going to roll over them? ISS?
Dekiri Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:51:00 - [95] Edited by: Dekiri on 07/12/2006 13:50:58 Maybe you guys should/could consider the fact that they are saying these mean things like "you have no clue", because it is actually true? I mean.. if you never have experienced any alliance warfare you really can't judge the ins and outs of it just by using your imagination. You can of course suggest things and comment, but then you really should not be surprised to be called a clueless newb if you insist on the nonsense you spread. BoB hater or lover it does really not matter if there is someone more experienced then you with an argument it would at least make sense to consider it before complaining about being called a newb =P Not to mention that noone is here to make sure you understand everything, so don't expect to much information if you ask for it. I will be honest with you there i don't have much clue about this here myself i just can judge what i read here(lol) hear from friends within either alliance and what i can make up looking at the map and various reports about it. This of course doesn't make me an expert, because all i get is basically second hand information, wich can hardly be compared to experiencing something. What i think i can judge are alliances in general and partially also what they are capable of and what not. And what it means to fight. -------------- My dad can beat up your dad! Support lowsec!
Kin Hanyerec Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:52:00 - [96] Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 07/12/2006 13:56:37 Originally by: Mariko San Show me a single serious commentator on these forums (that is not a BoB fanboi) that would suggest (with a straight face) that they ever considered ASCN to be as dangerous as BoB. You are seriously trying to tell me that if you were D2 you would be more concerned if ASCN were to war dec you than if BoB were to? This is not to say I think ASCN is a bad alliance, I don't, I think its very good at what it wants to do and compared to most entities in the game, but to suggest its "as dangerous as" the most powerful pvp aliance in the game is, frankly, edit: and when exactly were those FA and IMP battles? You cannot compare battles that took place so long ago with the current state of eve where BoB are very much top of the pile. I don't see any pvp - carebear distinction in 0.0 alliance. The military strenght of an alliance is proportional to it's resources (industrial strenght) multiplied by teamwork and will to fight. The estimation of the power of an alliance would use resources, numbers, and previous wars as parameters : ASCN as BoB as D2 have strong industrial backbones. ASCN has probably the upper hand here ASCN has more than the double of pilots than BoB or D2. ASCN owned 4 regions, has been able to defend them for some time, and has been able to field great numbers in it's previous engagements. I do not see ASCN weak here. It looks pretty strong, probably stronger than us. Nobody knows how a fleet will behave if you have never fought against or alongside them. ASCN never lost a region before our invasion. Now that we have fought them and took one of their regions, we could say that they may be "weaker" now in military ops than us, but definitely not the weakest, and they can still improve a lot. Your distorted image of ASCN is from what you read on forums, which are all but a reliable source of information. edit : i'm too slow. Everyone already proven my points
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:57:00 - [97] Give ASCN Dianabolic, Rift and one or two other leaders of ours to command them and they'd have owned us so hard we'd be the ones left a region lighter. I fully believe this. ASNC isn't incompetent, its leadership is. They've got and displayed fleets two-three times our size. They've got the bigger capital fleet and can probably keep up materially for a fair while. What they can't is come up with a way use all that to beat us, because no straightforward way will work and because half of their members have no trust in their own ceo, let alone their HC. The last few days in particular are again a good example of this, but you probably don't know what i mean by that, which is fine with me. Old blog
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:58:00 - [98] Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 07/12/2006 11:48:08 Originally by: Halca However, it doesn't take three years of being in Eve to know that ASCN are a joke. And comparing them to alliances like LV or D2 is an insult to those alliances. ASCN built the first Outpost and has built more than any other alliance. ASCN has run extensive military campaigns all over EVE for the past year and a half, some even at BoB's side. ASCN has conquered a hostile region and driven the former owners out. ASCN built the first Titan. The list could be longer, but all of the above do not add up to a 'joke'. All of the above are also not purely carebear / industrial achievements. BoB chose to pick a fight with the biggest kid on the block. I think it's fair to say that both sides have been surprised by how things have gone. Still, where is this 'insult' to D2 or LV? ok so I'm going to refer back to Seleene's post as evidence of the fact that prior to us kicking off at ASCN if you had asked anyone with half a clue about 0.0 alliance politics who the big players were they would have listed ASCN, BoB, LV and D2. Before we'd kicked off at ASCN (and in fact quite a lot of people will still say this) it was generally thought that ASCN were a step too far for BoB because of the logistics required to take 22 stations (about 22, can't remember the exact number). Of course everyone knows now and knew back then that toe to toe, all other things being equal ASCN couldn't stand up to us in fleet combat. However, the belief was that because of their massive reserves, many stations and ability to resupply their members this would be the equivalent of the Eastern Front for BoB. The expectation wasn't that we'd get out PvP'd but that we'd get ground down by continuous fighting and extended logistics, both of which factors we've proven now and previously that we can handle perfectly well (BKG anyone!). That's not just making stuff up, it's how things were perceived. If anyone disagree's with me feel free to chip in. Blog
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:05:00 - [99] Originally by: Blacklight The expectation wasn't that we'd get out PvP'd but that we'd get ground down by continuous fighting and extended logistics, both of which factors we've proven now and previously that we can handle perfectly well (BKG anyone!). You've already responded for me. Thanks. -Halca out ^.^
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:15:00 - [100] Originally by: Mariko San Show me a single serious commentator on these forums (that is not a BoB fanboi) that would suggest (with a straight face) that they ever considered ASCN to be as dangerous as BoB. You are seriously trying to tell me that if you were D2 you would be more concerned if ASCN were to war dec you than if BoB were to? This is not to say I think ASCN is a bad alliance, I don't, I think its very good at what it wants to do and compared to most entities in the game, but to suggest its "as dangerous as" the most powerful pvp aliance in the game is, frankly, I like challanges, here you go: Linkage This really didnt take long to dig out, the diffrence is that some would rather show their n00bness rather than doing research and checks before posting crap, and has nothing to do with players age ingame, only with his willingness to learn. As a side note, was funny and interesting, glancing at that thread, so many people were saying how good ASCN was.. ASCN HC of course, only did their best to reinforce those beliefs, because it gave them extra political credit which they could use. And now when challenged, those credits eventually only served to bring their end.. Its great being a Gallente blasterpilot, aint it? Save Tranquility!
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:16:00 - [101] Originally by: Halca Halca out ^.^ Do yourself and the reading public a favour.... follow your sig. KIA EVE Home
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:28:00 - [102] Originally by: KIAEddZ Originally by: Halca Halca out ^.^ Do yourself and the reading public a favour.... follow your sig. Seeing as it has descended to this level. No you. -Halca out ^.^
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:34:00 - [103] I enjoyed the logical fallacy read, thx for that. Pretty sure that bob IS infact the straw man in disguise.. Better than the tinfoil hat? & Someone better call the fire brigade, seems eddz has gotten out of his box again :P ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade..
Thut'ankh Amon Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:35:00 - [104] Originally by: Mariko San[:lol: Show me a single serious commentator on these forums (that is not a BoB fanboi) that would suggest (with a straight face) that they ever considered ASCN to be as dangerous as BoB.(..) actually i have made a bet with VonakaNbuster who will win - my 50 mil is saying ASCN, his 50m that BoB. so yeah i thought ASCN fortress will be to strong for BoB to siege successfully. So my ability to buy more or less exotic dancers will depend on the outcome of war Originally by: Noluck Ned Notify Concord is on their way to help you, just hang in there, they are waiting for overlord to respawn
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:41:00 - [105] Originally by: Thut'ankh Amon Originally by: Mariko San[:lol: Show me a single serious commentator on these forums (that is not a BoB fanboi) that would suggest (with a straight face) that they ever considered ASCN to be as dangerous as BoB.(..) actually i have made a bet with VonakaNbuster who will win - my 50 mil is saying ASCN, his 50m that BoB. so yeah i thought ASCN fortress will be to strong for BoB to siege successfully. So my ability to buy more or less exotic dancers will depend on the outcome of war Die faithless heathen Blog
Yucali Candy Hearts	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:48:00 - [106] Originally by: Halca Yes because it takes years of analysis, some math degrees and the all important doctorate in forumology to realise that a massive industrial alliance, which is reknowned for being industrial, has never gotten into many big fights on it's own and has one of the biggest memberbases is sure to be a monster when it comes to dedicated pvp. -Halca out ^.^ and here I thought a baccalaureate in forumology would be enough :(
Thut'ankh Amon Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:51:00 - [107] Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Thut'ankh Amon Originally by: Mariko San[:lol: Show me a single serious commentator on these forums (that is not a BoB fanboi) that would suggest (with a straight face) that they ever considered ASCN to be as dangerous as BoB.(..) actually i have made a bet with VonakaNbuster who will win - my 50 mil is saying ASCN, his 50m that BoB. so yeah i thought ASCN fortress will be to strong for BoB to siege successfully. So my ability to buy more or less exotic dancers will depend on the outcome of war Die faithless heathen Originally by: Noluck Ned Notify Concord is on their way to help you, just hang in there, they are waiting for overlord to respawn
Cavtrooper A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:36:00 - [108] w00t I read this entire thread, though Im still very confused. So why does this so called "BoB" person want to shoot The Goonies? I love The Goonies, especially Chunk, and Sloth. Oh, and that red haired chick that was supposed to be the older brothers girlfriend. Yea she was spankalicious. Why is Blacklight bringing up pedigrees? I thought he was formed in a test tube? Honestly I thought all of the Band of Brothers were genetically engineered, their lightning reflexes and uncanny teamwork could only be the result of some nefarious scientist (probably with a labratory on skull island). Well time to get out of this thread since I have contributed nothing, I just wanted to wave and say hello. Im hoping not to be enslaved as a pet corp anytime soon, monkeys make horrible pets. They throw poo everywhere. Guess thats why we are banished to the South (East?) bye, 2 cents courtesy of CAVTROOPER visit www.awmcorp.co.uk for more utterly perposterous ideas
Mariko San Saints Surrounded	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:37:00 - [109] Originally by: Audrea Originally by: Mariko San Show me a single serious commentator on these forums (that is not a BoB fanboi) that would suggest (with a straight face) that they ever considered ASCN to be as dangerous as BoB. You are seriously trying to tell me that if you were D2 you would be more concerned if ASCN were to war dec you than if BoB were to? This is not to say I think ASCN is a bad alliance, I don't, I think its very good at what it wants to do and compared to most entities in the game, but to suggest its "as dangerous as" the most powerful pvp aliance in the game is, frankly, I like challanges, here you go: Linkage This really didnt take long to dig out, the diffrence is that some would rather show their n00bness rather than doing research and checks before posting crap, and has nothing to do with players age ingame, only with his willingness to learn. As a side note, was funny and interesting, glancing at that thread, so many people were saying how good ASCN was.. ASCN HC of course, only did their best to reinforce those beliefs, because it gave them extra political credit which they could use. And now when challenged, those credits eventually only served to bring their end.. errr have you actually read that thread? The OP says he thinks that BoB vs ASCN would be a good fight then most other people say that they could never seen ASCN attacking bob, that BoB would take ASCN space but it would take some time and that D2 vs BoB would be a better fight. Keep searching?
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:24:00 - [110] Maybe look at this from a slightly different angle... How many alliances out there, wouldn't say 'oh crap, this will be interesting', if they had ASCN coming after their space prior to all this? By my count, the number is very low. Blog
Riddlock Minmatar Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:33:00 - [111] Whoever dosent admit that ascn was and maybe is one of the eve power house is wrong . but on the other hand BOB was always a pvp alliance and quite a perfect one ( except the forum talk )

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:45:00 - [112] I've given the thread a serious scrubbing. Please remain civil when posting, and post with your main. You also may not post as a member of an NPC corp, whatever the reason. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected]. Now your sig is mine MUAHAHAHAHAHA - Xorus

Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:13:00 - [113] Originally by: Riddlock Whoever dosent admit that ascn was and maybe is one of the eve power house is wrong . but on the other hand BOB was always a pvp alliance and quite a perfect one ( except the forum talk ) As long as we can back up what we say on forums then there isnt any problem at all and i think this has been proven on countless occasions. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:40:00 - [114] Edited by: DeadDuck on 07/12/2006 18:40:58 Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Halca Edited by: Halca on 07/12/2006 10:48:08 You guys are both smart and effective, there is no doubt about it and I don't presume to have an inside track. I don't think anywhere in my post said otherwise. However, it doesn't take three years of being in Eve to know that ASCN are a joke. And comparing them to alliances like LV or D2 is an insult to those alliances. Thanks for the elitist remarks Blacklight, it's why so many people are fond of you. You've sure shown me the error of my ways. -Halca out ^.^ So appart from NAP everyone what have D2 done that earns them a rep? You havent been paying attention... you naughty boy
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:41:00 - [115] Originally by: Fred0 Sometimes BOB deserves credit and this is one of those times. They've taken one region from ASCN and from the looks of things they are making inroads into ASCN heartland. To say that ASCN was not a powerhouse before they got this on their hand is wrong. They were in many peoples eyes considered the one entity who could stand up to BOB. Well-said, Fred0. I agree. Going in, I figured ASCN would be able to at least stall BoB long enough for them to get tired/bored of the conflict. Militarily, while strong, ASCN is not BoB. The sheer amount of infrastructure that ASCN has in place is what I assumed would save it. It's not over, but I don't see any signs of imminent failure on BoB's part. I'd add my voice to those who say that anyone who felt like ASCN is or was a pushover, is at least mildly insane. As best, they are incredibly uninformed.
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:46:00 - [116] Originally by: Rod Blaine Give ASCN Dianabolic, Rift and one or two other leaders of ours to command them and they'd have owned us so hard we'd be the ones left a region lighter. I fully believe this. ASNC isn't incompetent, its leadership is. They've got and displayed fleets two-three times our size. They've got the bigger capital fleet and can probably keep up materially for a fair while. What they can't is come up with a way use all that to beat us, because no straightforward way will work and because half of their members have no trust in their own ceo, let alone their HC. The last few days in particular are again a good example of this, but you probably don't know what i mean by that, which is fine with me. Agreed. What BoB has (good leadership) is in exceedingly short supply. Most alliances fail on the big stage as a result of this shortage.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.07 19:23:00 - [117] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 07/12/2006 18:40:58 Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Halca Edited by: Halca on 07/12/2006 10:48:08 You guys are both smart and effective, there is no doubt about it and I don't presume to have an inside track. I don't think anywhere in my post said otherwise. However, it doesn't take three years of being in Eve to know that ASCN are a joke. And comparing them to alliances like LV or D2 is an insult to those alliances. Thanks for the elitist remarks Blacklight, it's why so many people are fond of you. You've sure shown me the error of my ways. -Halca out ^.^ So appart from NAP everyone what have D2 done that earns them a rep? You havent been paying attention... you naughty boy Bleh come on, you have to bite harder than that or there's no fun Blog
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.07 19:31:00 - [118] Originally by: Mariko San @ Nalca's point - this is entirely true but in that regard they are no different from everyone else in EVE, who engages in fights that they do not fully expect to win? Aside perhaps from roaming pvp corps that have nothing to lose if it goes against them. .... The only groups that were a challenge to BoB were the old .5. alliance (and BoB neatly sidestepped that fight through its avowed relationship with ATUK) and the old G Alliance/IRON coalition, which I think most people would admit was stronger and tighter than D2 is at this time (and, again, BoB neatly avoided starting anything there until G were otherwise engaged against ASCN and neither side really wanted a long drawn out fight anyway). I really dont know how old or how well documented you are but in this statment I really dont agree with several things. Regarding the 1st one: TCF engaged Morsus Mihi home systems probably knowing that their friends would come to help them. They knew that if that was the case the entire war was lost. Even like that they engaged, dont know if because they thougt that Goons might hold more time or just to show the northern alliances that they were a strong potential partner. GoonSwarm alsow engaged in Cloud Ring Area probably knowing that the chances of suceed were not good, mainly because they were not ready yet to engage in a big alliance warfare. Even so both alliances took their chances and challenged the odds . Regarding the 2nd part: If I'm not wrong the same -5- alliance was defeated by RA in the Cache/Insmother regions. Maybe not in a military way but they werent capable of dealing with RA tactics and werent capable of holding the ground. In the end they were defeated... they pull back to empire. People might continue to speak about, BOB, D2, LV, ASCN ... the big 4. Seems to me that few people are aware of a growing power in the deep eastern regions. The brand new alliance between RA, Goons and TCF resulted without any doubt in my mind in one of the biggest military powers in EVE. D2, RZR, MM, V AND LV alliance members probably know what I'm talking about because they were or are involved in fights against them... the rest think that they are only good in lag bombs, safe spotting, and log off tactics... nobody conquers anything doing this.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.12.07 19:48:00 - [119] Edited by: Nez Perces on 07/12/2006 19:48:39 Originally by: DeadDuck People might continue to speak about, BOB, D2, LV, ASCN ... the big 4. I think the notion of the "big 4" powerblocks, is a pre-kali relic, and belongs in the history books. I believe we are entering a new post-kali period... LV and co. have their hands full with RA/Goons/TCF. ASCN may or may not survive the BoB onslaught. I think the big question is when will D2 and co. mobilise and what will they do? Will the north fracture like it often does and fight amongst themselves or is the northern union steadfast and in it for the long haul? I also think we are going see a rise of the medium sized alliances to prominence. In short, things are going to be very interesting... and there is going to be a lot of war happening all over the place, which is good
Bared Bel'Medar FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 20:05:00 - [120] Edited by: Bared Bel''Medar on 07/12/2006 20:06:59 Edited by: Bared Bel''Medar on 07/12/2006 20:05:46 Can someone give me an official link to any bob agenda whatsoever? Last I checked, the m0o doctrine of "if it aint broke, break it!" was in effect. also, with all this gerrymandering about who bob's supposed to attack next, if they attack goons, wont that mean tipping the balance of power against RA, thus puttnig LV and Friends to quo RA and friends... thus creating two things to break? And if/when/whatever happens there, wont the BoB patsies be next. You know, like ACSN, the next targets on the qeue? The only people really making decisions are the guys on top, and a lot can happen in a short amount of time. the so called elite society of BoB may find they hate different groups to verying extremes and reasons. Example, they find they dislike D2 less than they dislike RA, so they go after RA. or say some ancient CA/SA-FA rivalry flares up between two ego's and LV and BoB are at war. To summerize: I dont see a pattern fella's. I just don't think "bob" likes anyone. Lets be realistic, its a gathering of real individuals in a virtual scenario. That means mass interest and mass interest is fickle. The show is run by leaders and everyone else is along for the ride! I touch myself

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