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Obidiah Kane Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 33	Posted - 2015.07.28 11:04:54 - [61] - Quote WingSpan for Astero buff!
Tyler Startide Furor Teutonicus Lux Aetherna 12	Posted - 2015.07.28 11:27:27 - [62] - Quote I think having two different minigames for data and relic sites would be the way to go. Just merging the skills would also be okay but I think 2 different minigames would also improve the exploration gameplay.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 1459	Posted - 2015.07.28 11:40:30 - [63] - Quote Mynxee wrote: ...As addicting as it is, the hacking mini-game in its current form is overly repetitive and predictable after doing a few dozen sites.... I don't think it is meant to be too involving but rather a time factor to put a pilot at risk and/or under time pressure. Any mini-game will become repetitive the amount of times even a moderate explorer would run them. Make it too complex and you push up the at risk time and would therefore have to buff the reward in compensation. Mynxee wrote: I would also like the cans to be unscannable. You should have to complete the hack to find out what's in a can. I don't think this should be the case as again it gives the choice to a player of sacrifice a slot for a scanner or hack the lot. I do the latter as despawning a site can trigger a new sig.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 1459	Posted - 2015.07.28 11:42:06 - [64] - Quote rofflesausage wrote: Merge the modules, but make the new one scriptable. Different scripts for each type of site. This allows for the sites to be differentiated if CCP get around to it, but also allows for newer types of sites by simply adding a new script to the game. ... It also removes the need to choose between sacrificing an extra midslot or not.
Savant Alabel Raging Academy 42	Posted - 2015.07.28 12:27:56 - [65] - Quote Yeah, free one mid-slot on my astero for scrambler!
Lynx Sawpaw THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two 19	Posted - 2015.07.28 12:55:13 - [66] - Quote +1
Spugg Galdon Nisroc Angels 731	Posted - 2015.07.28 13:07:44 - [67] - Quote A simple fix to Data sites is to have them drop BPC's of the meta modules. NPC rats should then drop "parts" instead of complete modules. Parts looted from NPC wrecks are then used with a T1 module and a meta BPC obtained from a data site to build meta level modules. Industry gets a buff. Data sites get a buff. The fact that EVERYTHING in Eve should be built by players instead of just spawning into existence is one step closer. EDIT: I'm also against your proposal Chance. Sorry but I think the fact that you require to sacrifice a mid slot or carry a mobile depot is kind of the point. That extra mid slot would be worth gigillions in balance.
davet517 Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 112	Posted - 2015.07.28 13:22:47 - [68] - Quote Or, here's an idea. Make them more different from each other, and re-distribute the loot tables, to make their value more similar. Warning, Bittervet Rant Incoming: Scanning used to be hard and it took some skill. So, the isk/hr wasn't up to par with other things that you could do? Fine, MAKE IT MORE REWARDING, NOT EASIER. The top end of these loot tables should be HOLY F!!! exciting, but rare. The content should be challenging, but doable. If it gets any easier, you might as well just put a "give me isk" button on the scanner interface with a 5 minute cool-down. /rant If it's too similar, make it more different. If it's too easy, make it harder, but more rewarding. Don't dumb it down further.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1520	Posted - 2015.07.28 13:30:19 - [69] - Quote I'd agree on merging the two modules into one. It's a idea that makes it simpler by not dumbing it down. Yaay!!!!
Spugg Galdon Nisroc Angels 731	Posted - 2015.07.28 13:48:55 - [70] - Quote Maybe a better mini game that resembles hacking more..... maybe like this

Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 320	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:06:04 - [71] - Quote Before sleepers sites I would say yes to merge modules, but now? Data modules are for hacking devices, relic modules for "cans" (sleepers sites ofc). Also removing threshold to a profession that supposed to be one of most lucrative in cluster won't help it. CCP took interesitng direction with sleepers caches, both hacking skills needs to be high, there are some dangers waiting on explorers in there. I hope they rebuild current data/relics into something similiar. For those who want more complex hacking. It may backfire into explorers. We don't need to hack every can on site, we have cargo scanners. "-What are you doing?" "-Docking."(...) -"It's not possible" -"No, it's necessary."
Cidanel Afuran Grant Village 126	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:10:15 - [72] - Quote Not that Forumguy wrote: What about people like myself who trained up both skills to five ? P.S... love all the +1 kissing up to a csm post What about people like you? Adapt to changes or stop complaining.
Arsine Mayhem Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 391	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:19:55 - [73] - Quote Banana1x wrote: I agree that the meta games are identical and thus could be merged. But I'd rather a better mini game be designed. Mini games add nothing to the actual game and are more like a bandage over a festering wound that never heals. Take them out or do something half way real.
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:45:00 - [74] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: ... Have the hack at such a level that hisec escalations can be followed by tech I analyzer skilled pilots, losec by more experienced hackers, null by tech II capable hackers. Exploration should be made more involving not quicker and easier. I think the idea of Escalations from data/relic sites would be awesome. This does 3 things, 1) it adds value to each site you scan down because you can potentially get another site without scanning. 2) the escalation sites can't have campers, your ship would need to be scanned down with combat probes. 3) it adds an exploration activity to Exploration. As for the OP, I don't mind having 2 skills so much as having 2 modules equipped. I would be for a new module that combined both modules. Someone else suggested a T1 only SoE faction module, but I would make it available in T2 as well, since most relic centered explorers would not see value in upgrading. Much like the SoE probe launcher this would increase the value of the exploration ship as well making for juicer prey. Exploration has a lot of room for growth. Here are a few ideas I have: - New data site with cluster of cans inside a force field. One can outside which must be hacked to drop the FF. The force field then goes back up on start of first cluster can hack until all cans are hacked or destroyed. The cluster cans can all be harder and larger puzzles since the explorer is protected for the duration. Cloaky campers can still camp the FF node or sneak inside when the shield is dropped. And if a hunter comes upon an explorer already inside they can take up position waiting for the shield to drop at the end or follow the explorer when they leave. It could be the FF controls could be re-spawn after a short duration (1min) so a hunter or another explorer could attempt to drop the shield and scare off or attack anyone already inside. -Chained sites. Initial site only has 1 container but spawns a new site in same system on successful attempt. The new site is on the probe scanner and must be scanned down and will have 2-3 cans. Upon successful completion of all cans, no failures, a 3rd site is spawned the same way with another 2-3 cans. And upon completion without failure, a guaranteed escalation site is added to your journal. The chain could mix data and relic sites or even containers in same site causing both skills to be useful for success and moving on to the next chain. So many things could be done to add more variety, some fairly simple some more complex. I think adding more combination data/relic sites to the standard list would add value to the separate skills as you would want to be good in both for best chance at success.
Aerasia Republic University Minmatar Republic 58	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:51:14 - [75] - Quote Disclaimer: I'm always for removing skills. I'm for removing all skills. That being said, there's a lot of 'make these more differenter' without any suggestions so here's mine. Somebody somewhere posted about how archeology is about sifting through relics, I like that idea. Consider: Relic sites are modified to have extraneous cans, 15-30(,000 for all I care). In order to successfully run the site you need to open the valid cans, and in the right order. Opening the wrong can, or in the wrong sequence causes the site to explode/spawn sleepers/engage in sexual congress with your mom. Relic Analyzers now have the job of showing you the order in which you need to open them. First using the module on entering the site shows you the first can in sequence. Pop open that can, and there's an new minigame. Maybe a cipher or sliding block puzzle, i.e. make the picture match and your next can lights up on overview. The support skills get transferred from virus coherence to supporting this new minigame. More time on the clock, less moving parts to the puzzle, whatever. Get a T2 analyzer, and it shows you the first two cans in sequence, giving you a 50% chance of skipping the first puzzle. And then you can have that crossover with the data sites. Open the data cans in the right order and a previously cloaked can(s) shows up. And for relic sites, maybe the data analyzer can be used to modify the puzzles slightly, or it gives you a 1-off chance to open an invalid, non-sequence can (which would naturally have loot in it to encourage mistakes and mask the actual payout cans). Relic sites behave differently. Relic and data analyzers have a distinct, and synergistic purpose to encourage fitting both. People stop looting one can and leaving a site with just carbon. PS: You can still just remove the skills. I'm ok with that.
Arla Sarain 567	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:59:27 - [76] - Quote davet517 wrote: Or, here's an idea. Make them more different from each other, and re-distribute the loot tables, to make their value more similar. Warning, Bittervet Rant Incoming: Scanning used to be hard and it took some skill. So, the isk/hr wasn't up to par with other things that you could do? Fine, MAKE IT MORE REWARDING, NOT EASIER. The top end of these loot tables should be HOLY F!!! exciting, but rare. The content should be challenging, but doable. If it gets any easier, you might as well just put a "give me isk" button on the scanner interface with a 5 minute cool-down. /rant If it's too similar, make it more different. If it's too easy, make it harder, but more rewarding. Don't dumb it down further. How do you make it hard? Before when you had to deploy 1 probe per cycle, and place them manually - it wasn't hard. Just time consuming. If you lock it up by skill level - doesn't fix anything. All you do is delay the ISK machine; people who have no access to the modules needed stray away from the activity;those who do have access begin to explore opportunities. They find that there is a lack of supply on the market and start making $$$. Other pick up on that and start training. Sure, maybe the time investment is long, but in the end its worth it...? Until you again, have tons of explorers swooping cans faster than the site respawn and the market gets saturated again, except the populace is worse off, because now there is a minority that has a monopoly due to the access restriction. At the end of the day Exploration is in the same spot as LP store farmers - they don't make liquid ISK. Hence they earn as much as the NS crabbers are willing to pay...
Lion Drome Der Wehrmacht 0	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:01:47 - [77] - Quote I'm all for this update of the hacking and exploration skills. They are basicly identical things and only thing different is the loot. Removing one, or the other & combining them into one skill which cuts down on the new players and experienced players getting into it. Saves us from having to carry a module and generally a buff to data sites would be a much nicer thing to see. An update I'd love to see is also a site despawn timer. Similar to say besieged covert research facilities. Once the site has been activated (Can opened) the site automaticly despawns in say 20-30 minutes. This would save many from warping into sites which only have bad/empty cans in them, and would generally make the whole experience much nicer since you don't have to worry have all of the good stuff been taken and you have just been left with one empty can. Great idea to merge the two skills and use the level from the one thats higher as the preset for the level the player would have as the new skill level. The smaller level could be given as Free SP so in general you'd get a good feeling about the whole exploration update. Players would have to carry less modules since some sites don't even require both like ghost sites. The data site loot gets updated and the player still gets the time he put into the lower skill back as free SP. P.S. The Relic site exploration cans could use an update. Since it is well "Archeology" so should we not have say old buildings, wrecked ships (Like for example imagine using your new exploration module in a wrecked Sanshas carrier in a null/W-space relic site or a guristas Wyvern) etc. Since having the same one model for all the containers for all the factions seems kind of 2000. Data sites atleast have different size of buildings to use them on. But they cou
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2991	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:34:45 - [78] - Quote Considering that everything from traditional data and relic sites are sold on a player driven market, increasing the amount of loot will only devalue the sites, requiring less modules and skills to do the sites will devalue the sites. Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:47:10 - [79] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Considering that everything from traditional data and relic sites are sold on a player driven market, increasing the amount of loot will only devalue the sites, requiring less modules and skills to do the sites will devalue the sites. I agree about the skills. Exploration could use more variety of loot in null/low as it is, so that it is not devalued, especially data sites. I still think a new duo-module could add to the game, cost for convenience. Maybe add components for new structures to data site loot tables, or use some of those seemingly unused items form data sites for new BPs thus increasing their value.
Garai Nolen Xyjax NICE Inter-Celestial Enterprises 42	Posted - 2015.07.28 16:43:17 - [80] - Quote Mynxee wrote: The OP's core complaint is that there's not enough differentiation between data and relic hacking. No argument there but I am not fond of seeing opportunities for more interesting and varied gameplay eliminated by combining/homogenizing content. If we took out data sites and hacking though, it would basically not change the day to day experience (or train or fitting) of most current explorers. Exploration with just relic sites (e.g. most actual exploration done today) is already in a pretty good, solid, and interesting place. I would rather see CCP take that effort and create a brand new content type rather than just spin wheels on iterating over exploration content that's already pretty solid WITHOUT that differentiation. Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Have you run the sleeper caches? ... The reason for the two modules is as I stated previously: enforced fitting choices. If I'm exploring, non-combat, I only fit a data analyzer if I have spare fitting I already don't care about. The current state of data sites makes the fitting argument irrelevant. Sleeper caches would be a great potential exception, except... combat. Any ship capable of solo'ing them is already facing refit downtime and carrying a mobile depot. Fitting choices lose relevance when you can refit anywhere within 60s and already have to anyway in order to switch between combat , hacking, and travel roles. Ransu Asanari wrote: On top of this we have the new Drifter Complexes which require two teams equipped with Data Analyzers to access the central Hive. The drifter sites do seem awesome, but what drives that is NOT the fact that they use arch and hacking at the same time. What makes them interesting is the requirement to hack two different things at the same time and how that forces folks to fly the site with other people. It would take absolutely nothing away from drifter sites to make the hacking all data or all relic; the interesting bit is the cooperative element. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/

Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 309	Posted - 2015.07.28 16:47:42 - [81] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: instead of merging these into one, they should be made more distinct from each other. this gets my vote THIS! I want to see an archaeology minigame like digging trenches! For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Friggz Caldari Provisions Caldari State 180	Posted - 2015.07.28 18:18:05 - [82] - Quote +1 The main detractors to this idea are saying "They are two seperate things, so just make them seperate and different." Let me pose a hypothetical to you. Let's say that Archeology didn't exist. There are no relic sites and no Archeology skill. There is only Hacking and Data sites. This is all you've ever known. Now, pretend I came onto these forums and suggested a new type of exploration, called Archeology. It will use a skill that works identically to hacking. It will use a module that works identically to hacking. It will use sites that work identically to hacking. It will a mini-game that works identically to hacking. I imagine your responses would be "Why does this need to be in the game?" Or "What does this add?" Or even "Does exploration really need 2 different types of modules?" Everyone is saying "Make them seperate" but I haven't seen anyone provide a good reason for why we need 2 seperate types of exploration sites in the first place. It's just that there's always been 2, so it feels like there should still be 2. But then, realize if the situation was reversed and there was only 1, absolutely no one would be saying we need 2 different modules and sites that work exactly the same way. Ah, but of course you wouldn't want that, and you don't want that. You want them to be different. The problem is they aren't different, and making them different is essentially adding new content. Adding content is always good, but there is no reason why CCP can't merge them now, and then add new content later that uses the same sites, skills, and modules. Why not? They've done it before. There is no difference between seperating them or making them the same and then adding new content later, except that one makes life much better right now and the other maintains a poor status quo. Another counter-arguement is that having 2 modules is some type of choice or meaningful decision, but it's not. If I have a door in front of me and 2 keys and 1 works and 1 doesn't, I'm not making a meaningful decision, I have to use the key that works. Maybe fitting decisions would have been an interesting choice in the past, but with how cheap and easy mobile depots are, all you would be doing is adding a bit of tedium as the explorer drops their depot and refilts. In short, this is a solid suggestion and I don't see any reason made thus far as to why we need 2 redundant skills and modules.
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 299	Posted - 2015.07.28 19:23:52 - [83] - Quote Chance Ravinne wrote: All right let's face it: There are no meaningful differences between these skills. They take a significant time for new players to train, but don't offer significantly different risks or benefits, except that data loot is mostly garbage. Yet die hard explorers feel compelled to carry and or fit both modules around, even though they result in identical minigames and mechanics. Hell, some newer exploration sites, like Ghost Sites, don't even care which module you use! So let's end the charade. Merge both skills into Hacking, make all current data and relic sites "hacking" sites and just make things simpler and less arbitrarily silly. This means less arbitrary training time, fewer wasted ship midslots, and no need to explain why "archeology" is a computer hacking game. The side bonus is hacking "data" sites wont be as bad since the training and fitting requirements being halved adds some value to your day. Give people Hacking to whichever level of the two existing skills is higher, and give them the lower skill's SP as freely distributable bonus SP. Whaddya think? No. So I take it you hate the exploration profession? Because this is a good way to ** it over even more. Rubicon really screwed it up by making it accessible to everyone almost at day 1. Before then, scanning took skill. I spent days learning to scan, and months learning to scan well. It was something to put on my resume: not everyone back then had the time nor desire to learn how to wrestle with the scanning system. This created opportunity. Because it was hard to do, fewer people were doing it. Because fewer people were doing it, the gains from running the sites went up due to scarcity. ALSO, because fewer people were interested, there was actually a small market for being a cartographer. I got hired a few times in my early days to go around a chain of systems, scan down the sites, bookmark the ones my employer was looking for, and then sell them the bookmarks. I developed a skill, and turned it into isk. Now, everyone and their dog can scan. It's trivial. And hence, the market for it crashed. You came into the game (if this is your first character, anyways) after all this happened. You didn't have to experience all your skills and knowledge becoming suddenly worth a lot less than before. You didn't really see the price devaluation of your loot hanger, nor that fewer and fewer people would pay for bookmarks anymore. Having two skills is not "good difficulty", granted. It's an artificial barrier, since both hacking and archeology rely on the same mini game. But removing it would remove a further factor in scarcity, meaning someone who would have passed the sites over before now does them and gets the loot from them. The more loot being generated, the less worth it has. You might think archeology for T2 salvage is a good source of income, but before Ruibcon, it was a *** gold mine. What it is now is a joke compared. Instead, differentiate more between the two. Give better rewards, and tweak the mini game so that the hacking is noticeably different from the salvaging. Expand on it. Salvaging should have the chance to give faction parts. And not just Guristas or Sperpentis or whatever pirate faction is in your area, you should also find Navy and NPC corporation wreck sites for variety's sake. Hacking should have the chance to give faction blueprints. You're hacking secure databases, and you should have the potential to find much better rewards than now. And for **'s sake, make it harder to scan the higher value loot sites. Because right now, it's trivial. Make it harder and give better rewards. To be completely honest, I don't think exploration will ever recover from Rubicon. Not in the direction CCP is taking it. But your idea is just one more nail in it's coffin.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 66	Posted - 2015.07.28 19:32:10 - [84] - Quote Dont merge them so people need to use 2 mid slots, what about changing them to low slots? Right armor tankers would hate that...
Friggz Caldari Provisions Caldari State 181	Posted - 2015.07.28 19:43:03 - [85] - Quote It is true that making things more accessible leads to more people doing them, which in generally leads to reduced profits if the activity isn't an isk faucet. However, I don't think this change signficiantly impacts accessiblity. Most people are only doing Relics and not Data sites anyway, and for those players the accessiblity has not changed at all. Even if the player does want both skills to IV before doing exploration for some reason, it's 4 extra days. It would really only matter to new players. Even if it did have some kind of impact, it's certainly hyperbole to say it would 'kill exploration.'
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 1463	Posted - 2015.07.28 20:13:53 - [86] - Quote Garai Nolen wrote: ... Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Have you run the sleeper caches? ... The reason for the two modules is as I stated previously: enforced fitting choices. If I'm exploring, non-combat, I only fit a data analyzer if I have spare fitting I already don't care about. The current state of data sites makes the fitting argument irrelevant. Sleeper caches would be a great potential exception, except... combat. Any ship capable of solo'ing them is already facing refit downtime and carrying a mobile depot. Fitting choices lose relevance when you can refit anywhere within 60s and already have to anyway in order to switch between combat , hacking, and travel roles.... That's interesting as I solo all the sleeper caches whenever I find them without the need to refit, refit can help if you know which resists to shift to for the next damage type but to be honest I don't normally bother as it isn't necessary in the right ship. Time is a factor on these sites, if you don't want someone coming in and despawning the site or worse triggering the nastiness then you'd better be quick.
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2015.07.28 20:32:33 - [87] - Quote Friggz wrote: It is true that making things more accessible leads to more people doing them, which in generally leads to reduced profits if the activity isn't an isk faucet. However, I don't think this change signficiantly impacts accessiblity. Most people are only doing Relics and not Data sites anyway, and for those players the accessiblity has not changed at all. Even if the player does want both skills to IV before doing exploration for some reason, it's 4 extra days. It would really only matter to new players. T2 module currently require lvl V so all those people with Arch V and Hack III/IV are weaker against the hardest hacking sites. If they merged and lowered T2 requirements, then all the data sites just got easier for those players. Skills at III or IV and T1 modules will fail on harder cans. Let the people that chose to invest in Hacking keep an advantage over those that did not. If people don't care about data sites then the merger will not make a huge impact, true. But then why bother making a change at all, leave well enough alone and let people keep skipping the data sites. I rarely find the new sites. When I do, I'm often deep into unfriendly territory, and it is not the time I want to risk losing my ship to a sleeper cache. But if I did find one close to home, having good skills in both give me an advantage over someone that didn't train both to V. If we really want to merge the 2 skills then make it the same SP as Arch V + Hack V and keep the lvl V requirement for T2 modules. Anyone not already 2x V will need to train up to use the T2 module again. This simplifies things while forcing people to decide if they want to be able to use T2 or not. I have said it earlier, I would rather a new module be made that does both data/relic sites and has Arch V and Hack V as requirements to use. This changes nothing for those only doing relic sites now unless they have already trained Hack V. If so then they can upgrade to the new module and do either site type for 1 mid slot.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 1463	Posted - 2015.07.28 21:40:07 - [88] - Quote Rather than merge the modules it would be better I think to merge the sites, have the sigs show up as a new sig name and have them conatin both data and relic cans for different purposes, with the data cans giving BPC's and such along with better access to better cans, and the relic cans giving parts and loot. The hacking game isn't intended to be a major brain test but rather a time sink to put you at risk. Make it take too long and the risk becomes unbalanced, make it require too much focus and you turn sites into death traps in lower sec space. There's nothing wrong with the current system in my opinion, just the sites need to be improved.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 872	Posted - 2015.07.28 22:25:11 - [89] - Quote I would have to politely disagree. As it stands, right now the modules require 2 spaces in the mid slots. And it takes some consideration when fitting your ship. Most ships, if you want to fit 2 such modules, really sacrifice some tank and or mobility in the process. If you combine 2 modules into one, some of the fitting problems go away, and it becomes easier and faster to do the data sites. For example. passive tank nighthawk in C5 sleeper sites for ninja method. You have to choose what module to fit, because you cant fit 2 of them or your tank will fold. You have to choose what to nonja - talocan or the data cans. if you combine 2 modules into one, suddenly its possible to hack both the talocan AND the scattered data cans easily. There are more cases. I wont go into specifics, just trust me, in some cases the combination of two modules into one will make site running easier and faster, meaning a change in relative isk income and an impact in EVE economy. this has to be studied.
Garai Nolen Xyjax NICE Inter-Celestial Enterprises 44	Posted - 2015.07.28 22:49:37 - [90] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Garai Nolen wrote: ... Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Have you run the sleeper caches? ... The reason for the two modules is as I stated previously: enforced fitting choices. If I'm exploring, non-combat, I only fit a data analyzer if I have spare fitting I already don't care about. The current state of data sites makes the fitting argument irrelevant. Sleeper caches would be a great potential exception, except... combat. Any ship capable of solo'ing them is already facing refit downtime and carrying a mobile depot. Fitting choices lose relevance when you can refit anywhere within 60s and already have to anyway in order to switch between combat , hacking, and travel roles.... That's interesting as I solo all the sleeper caches whenever I find them without the need to refit, refit can help if you know which resists to shift to for the next damage type but to be honest I don't normally bother as it isn't necessary in the right ship. Time is a factor on these sites, if you don't want someone coming in and despawning the site or worse triggering the nastiness then you'd better be quick. I guess my point was simply that fitting for these just isn't a problem for explo cruisers in general. I imagine the Limited Sleeper Cache makes frigate fitting somewhat interesting, the same way trying to fit a covops frig for ghost sites can be pretty tight. So yeah I accept that for a few situations when you are forced into frigates and sites have interesting/unique mechanics, there can be some non-trivial fitting decisions. Except for ghost sites the frigate tradeoffs would exist even post merge, since you can already use either analyzer type. Generally I don't think those cases are providing sufficient gameplay value to justify not merging these skills. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/



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