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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 19:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:
The better fleets are few and far between, Getting the better fleets together takes time and preparation. Why shouldn't people be allowed to make good isk in high sec? Is there some law against it?
I don't think high sec in general should be nerfed. I do think low sec needs some sort of boost because there are precious little isk making opportunities there.
But the amount of isk must have some relationship to the amount of risk. High sec incursion runners are making between 166-247 isk per hour. Don't you agree that is a bit high? Do you think it should be more?
I'm thinking if they cut out the lp for high sec incursions that would put the figure at around 115-195 million isk per hour. Thats still not bad is it?
If incursions would occassionally hot drop tons tackle and cap ships - like happens in pvp then yes I would agree there is risk. But I get the sense they are just like other sleeper ai npcs. Once you learn how to beat them you can beat them again and again and again .... to the point where you are pretty much just farming them.
As for the guys who first figured out how to beat them - I hope they made good isk because being the first of the bunch was likely very challenging and risky. But now the community knows how to beat them. So keeping the rewards the same for the guys who are just following the cookie cutter directions of others, as they were for the guys who had to figure it out on their own doesn't make sense.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 20:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:Cearain wrote:
No one has ever explained why its less risk to run an incursion in low sec than it is in null sec. If anything those who own sov where they are running incursions have much less risk than low sec and npc null sec. .
AND they pay out is more... Please tell me how we're supposed to run incursions that appear in hostile space.
Right so the incursions in sov space are going to be run by the people who own sov there in relative safety. That is relative to npc null sec or low sec.
If we are looking at risk versus reward low sec and npc null sec should pay more than sov null sec. Certainly the low sec incursions should not pay worse than null sec. Would you agree?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 21:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 21:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garbad theWeak wrote:Cearain wrote:Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that. Not possible, especially when you factor in travel time and LP research cost and the like.
Thats what a guy who was trying to defend the high sec incursions was saying. I don't think he would exagerate his income when he was trying to argue they shouldn't be nerfed.
The lp was calculated at a pretty easy to get 2.5k per lp. When you have the pick of all the lp stores as well as unique items in the concord store its pretty easy to get. I would imagine some people through research etc could get more than that for the lp.
As far as travel time. I see incursions in allot of the same places over and over. But whatever, how long does it take to hit autopilot?
If not autopilot and you are going to do the jumps yourself its just a matter of 15 minutes or so and then you run them in the same constellation right?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 21:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cearain wrote:Right so the incursions in sov space are going to be run by the people who own sov there in relative safety. That is relative to npc null sec or low sec. They're still vulnerable to roaming gangs and the like. My point with "hostile space" is that travelling to, and running incursions in hostile space, be that NPC or SOV nullsec, or even in lowsec, is prone to gatecamps and hostile gangs which may be designed specifically to cut incursion fleets to ribbons. You don't have that in hisec incursions. At least in lowsec and npc nullsec, you can dock up. SOV nullsec isn't quite as easy to wait out hostiles. Cearain wrote:If we are looking at risk versus reward low sec and npc null sec should pay more than sov null sec. Certainly the low sec incursions should not pay worse than null sec. Would you agree? Actually, I wouldn't be opposed to limit incursions to hisec only, since it's more of a nuisance with the cynojamming etc. As I've said before, they're good tools for training people to work together in moderately tight fleet compositions. vOv.
I think you agree that there seems to be no reason to think low sec incursions are less risky than null sec incursions.
CCP always pretends that the risk gets worse gradually as the sec status of a system goes down. But in reality the risk basically just hits a cliff when you go from .5 to .4. The more they acknowledge this the more balanced the game will be.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 21:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Utrigas Hakaari wrote:Cearain wrote:Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that. And by that they are already risking a lot in shiny ships...
No they make that in high sec.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 22:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cearain wrote:I think you agree that there seems to be no reason to think low sec incursions are less risky than null sec incursions.
CCP always pretends that the risk gets worse gradually as the sec status of a system goes down. But in reality the risk basically just hits a cliff when you go from .5 to .4. The more they acknowledge this the more balanced the game will be. Actually, it depends where in nullsec or lowsec the incursion is. If it's right outside of hisec, then at least travelling to the edge of the incursion can be done in relative safety, whereas if it's deep in nullsec, we're talking about lots of space where bad things can happen. So I'd say it depends. But yes, just the act of going from 0.5 to 0.4 dramatically increases the risk you put your ship in.
But when its deep in your own sov null sec its relatively safe as compared to low sec where neutrals are constantly coming in and out and there is no way to control it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 22:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:0.0 guys have the chance to do them.
Also 0.0 pay is almost twice the high sec pay.
So why is 0.0 people complaining?
I think the risk in low sec is at least 2xs as it is in high sec. Yet i don't think they get the same rewards as null sec. Sov null sec I don't know if there is much risk there if you are deep in your own territory.
Its hard to argue that 166-247 mill per hour in high sec isn't a bit high.
I mean its either too high, too low, or just right. I suppose those who don't think the rewards should be nerfed are claiming its "just right." Or is anyone claiming that high sec incursions need to have the an increase in their pay??
What do you think?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 22:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cearain wrote:But when its deep in your own sov null sec its relatively safe as compared to low sec where neutrals are constantly coming in and out and there is no way to control it. Yes, but it's not something that swings by your space whenever you need it, so it's not a reliable source of income, in fact chances are it'll be more annoying for the rest of the populace who don't feel like running incursions because whole systems are cynojammed etc. It gets worse when that happens right in the middle of an invasion.
So its not as much risk but it is potentially more annoying. I actually can buy that. But I still think that the extra annoyance should just make them equal to low sec not more valuable.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.09 01:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Cearain wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:0.0 guys have the chance to do them.
Also 0.0 pay is almost twice the high sec pay.
So why is 0.0 people complaining? I think the risk in low sec is at least 2xs as it is in high sec. Yet i don't think they get the same rewards as null sec. Sov null sec I don't know if there is much risk there if you are deep in your own territory. Its hard to argue that 166-247 mill per hour in high sec isn't a bit high. I mean its either too high, too low, or just right. I suppose those who don't think the rewards should be nerfed are claiming its "just right." Or is anyone claiming that high sec incursions need to have the an increase in their pay?? What do you think? low sec is risky because goons and test actually do those regularly to make isk. however for the most part low sec incursion running woudl be almost as safe as high sec. 1. Systems are cyno jammed so no hot drops cept from black ops, but you wouldnt want to gank an incursion site with recons and black ops. 2. you still have local. 3. if you run 1-2 heavy on logi and you will discourage most gankers. Low sec payouts are the same as null due to the risk factor.
What risk factor are you talking about? How is null sec more risk?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
95
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't think this is even a matter of whether people will live in null sec. I think its just a matter of having one high sec pve activity that yields 2-3xs the same rewards as any other high (or even low sec) pve activity. If the game is to have any sort of true variety then it should have some semblence of balance. Otherwise choosing any other pve isk generating activity becomes foolish.
The fact that incursion runners can use any lp store makes this even worse because normally if an activity gets farmed to death the value of doing that pve will drop. Take fw missions. If they are overfarmed the lp will drop in value and it will correct itself. People will stop doing the fw missions and do other things until the lp to isk ratio increases. But with concord lp and your ability to pick and choose almost any lp item to sell you will never over farm it - unless almost every other pve activity is also killed.
Again those who think high sec incursions shouldn't be nerfed the question is do you think making 2-3xs as much as any other low sec or high pve activity is "just right" or do you think you should make even more? Do you think high sec incursion runners should be making 4-5xs as much as any other pve activity in low or high sec?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
95
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Posted - 2011.12.09 16:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Energetic Monk wrote:Last i checked low/null sec Incursions sites be it Vanguard, Assault or HQ's, pays better then the same ones in high-sec.
So when did it change, that a group activity in high-sec pays out more, than by doing the same group activity in low/null?
The sites pay more but that doesn't necessarilly mean you can make more in the same amount of time. It may not be cost effective to fly the pimped out high sec fits in low sec. That means the anoms will require more people and or take more time to complete.
But anyway the issue isn't comparing high sec incursions to low sec incursions. The issue is high sec incursions to every other sort of pve you can get in high sec and even non-incursion low sec pve.
If the idea is to tell everyone there is only one form of pve that makes any sense for generating isk then CCP is doing it right. If they want people to have choices in a sandbox enviornment then its pretty clear high sec incursions are not balanced.
Low and null sec incursions may or may not be balanced that is not the issue.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
95
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Posted - 2011.12.09 16:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote:On balance PVE should be about having fun with a group of friends or a group of people who you have never met before....
It seems ccp agrees and is changing eve from a sandbox to a railroad to force everyone to play it that way.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.09 22:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Plus, nothing is stopping the hotdrop fleet from getting in different ships and doing some nullsec incursions of their own, making more money than the hisec bears. Why bother risking their bear fleet getting hotdropped in turn when they can run incursions in CONCORD-protected territory instead? So one playstyle is more profitable than another, interesting. Welcome to the sandbox.
One playstyle is so much more profitable than every other playstyle its stupid to do anything else. Welcome to the railroad.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.10 00:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Cearain wrote:Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Plus, nothing is stopping the hotdrop fleet from getting in different ships and doing some nullsec incursions of their own, making more money than the hisec bears. Why bother risking their bear fleet getting hotdropped in turn when they can run incursions in CONCORD-protected territory instead? So one playstyle is more profitable than another, interesting. Welcome to the sandbox. One playstyle is so much more profitable than every other playstyle its stupid to do anything else. Welcome to the railroad. Really? Zim here says he makes more money playing the market and his buddies ganking and ransoming than what's paid out by hisec incursions... Which is it?
Zim is full of it.
Possibly trading the rest is bs.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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