| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Yodaron Ballsithor
   |
Posted - 2003.11.18 01:58:00 -
[1]
I received this mail from my Minister of Foreign Relations, Kai Viqtorr.
"Just received from Cerys Ereint:
2003.11.17 20:08:00
We at EG were VERY surprised to find out today that Macross Combat Corp and their allies are no longer KOS to the CFS and are welcome back into CFS.
We are most interested in finding out why the CFS would allow known assassins and pirates to operate within their space?
Frankly - we are astounded by these developments.
Your comments would be appreciated to the question:
Why, after having been clearly shown to be both murders for hire and pirates, have the CFS seen fit to remove this corporation from their KOS listings and given them the right to fly within CFS "protected" space again?"
I could have responded in private to mail; however, I believe it only appropriate that CFS respond publicly and clearly to these "astounding" questions. Frankly, I am "astounded" that no one from Eve Guardian has apparently read our Free space Bill. It is posted, together with our Charter and other passed bills on our open forums for all to read. The link is here: CFS Charter and Bills
The relevant portion of the Free Space Bill is as follows:
"This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in
Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilites and make reparations before they are destroyed."
I trust there is no further question concerning our position.
To my knowledge restitution has been made by the offenders, with the exception of Dark Goddess. The Free Space Bill closes that inquiry. Dark Goddess remains on the CFS KOS list. Regarding Macross itself, they are being removed from the KOS list, although the claim that they have already is false. (Anyone bothering to check our KOS list before asking "astounding" questions would have seen Macross listed as KOS.) I publish that decision now.
I am frankly "astounded" that someone would draw a comparison between a paid mercenary and a pirate. Such an analogy is like comparing legitimate PVP corporations with mining corporations. They are entirely different occupations and have been recognized as such from DAY ONE in Eve.
Macross was contracted by Enlightened One from the Intersteller Defense Initiative to execute contracts on apparently two (2) corporations that an NVA corporation desired eradicated. Innocents were killed and restitution was paid. Macross and the Initiative know that CFS will not tolerate contract killing within it's space. They have agreed to honor that position. If they fail in their obligation, they will be KOS and they know this. They have onored that agreement to this point and paid the restitution as required. Until they fail in that obligation, they are free (as are all) to fly in our space to conduct legitimate bsiness.
By the way, if anyone had bothered to look at the CFS KOS list he/she/it would have found several individuals listed as KOS and their corporation not listed at all. The reasoning is obvious and will not be repeated here.
CFS will not tolerate killing in its space unless the combatants are involved in a declared war, i.e., publicly acknowledged and declared war. In this event, we prefer them to take their issues elsewhere or demand they pay ompensation for collateral damage.
I was told a long time ago the KISS theory. Kep It Simple Stupid. That I will:
Simply put, we at CFS honor our laws and expect others within our space to do the same.
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 02:17:00 -
[2]
looks at JGR Corp.
Looks at Yodaron.
Looks at Yodaron post.
Looks at macross quote:
"No reperations will made to your corp, I don't care about your whining."
Looks at EG question.
Thinks Yodaron should get his chronology correct before mounting the high horse.
/emote chuckles at diplomatic blunder and thinks CFS should stick to not publishing private eve-mails.
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 02:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 18/11/2003 02:29:49
double post 
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 02:29:00 -
[4]
Yeah, I'm not even gonna bother anymore.
If you think its ok to invite a known pirate corp back into protected space, and claim it ok just because you KOSed the one who was behind the gun, then you need to reconsider your position, "Mr President".
Place their entire corporation on Kill-on-Sight unless they make *full* reparations, like your charter stated.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 02:35:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilites and make reparations before they are destroyed."
I trust there is no further question concerning our position.
Yeah ive got some:
What does the above have to do with hired assassins coming into CFS - now known hired assassins, coming into CFS space and being allowed to operate freely.. what does that have to do with "no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control "
??
I mean... i just dont see the relevant bit?
Personally, seeing as these guys have already stated they are assassins - its what they do, it doesnt seem unreasonable to think "hey - look MAcross is back in CFS space. Gee pop..why do you think they are here this time?"
Rocket science stuff.
Im sure the family of the next asassinated pilot will think kindly of the flowers you send to put on their grave.
"We at the CFS are so sorry for your loss - we never expected assassins to come into our space and assassinate people... there wa sno way we could protect you" 
|
Cerys Ereint
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 02:47:00 -
[6]
Quote:
I received this mail from my Minister of Foreign Relations, Kai Viqtorr.
"Just received from Cerys Ereint:
2003.11.17 20:08:00
We at EG were VERY surprised to find out today that Macross Combat Corp and their allies are no longer KOS to the CFS and are welcome back into CFS.
We are most interested in finding out why the CFS would allow known assassins and pirates to operate within their space?
Frankly - we are astounded by these developments.
Your comments would be appreciated to the question:
Why, after having been clearly shown to be both murders for hire and pirates, have the CFS seen fit to remove this corporation from their KOS listings and given them the right to fly within CFS "protected" space again?"
I could have responded in private to mail; however, I believe it only appropriate that CFS respond publicly and clearly to these "astounding" questions. Frankly, I am "astounded" that no one from Eve Guardian has apparently read our Free space Bill. It is posted, together with our Charter and other passed bills on our open forums for all to read. The link is here: CFS Charter and Bills
The relevant portion of the Free Space Bill is as follows:
"This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in
Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilites and make reparations before they are destroyed."
I trust there is no further question concerning our position.
To my knowledge restitution has been made by the offenders, with the exception of Dark Goddess. The Free Space Bill closes that inquiry. Dark Goddess remains on the CFS KOS list. Regarding Macross itself, they are being removed from the KOS list, although the claim that they have already is false. (Anyone bothering to check our KOS list before asking "astounding" questions would have seen Macross listed as KOS.) I publish that decision now.
I am frankly "astounded" that someone would draw a comparison between a paid mercenary and a pirate. Such an analogy is like comparing legitimate PVP corporations with mining corporations. They are entirely different occupations and have been recognized as such from DAY ONE in Eve.
Macross was contracted by Enlightened One from the Intersteller Defense Initiative to execute contracts on apparently two (2) corporations that an NVA corporation desired eradicated. Innocents were killed and restitution was paid. Macross and the Initiative know that CFS will not tolerate contract killing within it's space. They have agreed to honor that position. If they fail in their obligation, they will be KOS and they know this. They have onored that agreement to this point and paid the restitution as required. Until they fail in that obligation, they are free (as are all) to fly in our space to conduct legitimate bsiness.
By the way, if anyone had bothered to look at the CFS KOS list he/she/it would have found several individuals listed as KOS and their corporation not listed at all. The reasoning is obvious and will not be repeated here.
CFS will not tolerate killing in its space unless the combatants are involved in a declared war, i.e., publicly acknowledged and declared war. In this event, we prefer them to take their issues elsewhere or demand they pay ompensation for collateral damage.
I was told a long time ago the KISS theory. Kep It Simple Stupid. That I will:
Simply put, we at CFS honor our laws and expect others within our space to do the same.
Dear Mr President,
Your lack of protocol is only dwarfed in scale by your lack of capable assistants. For them to fail to point out to you the publically available information that corps' had not only not been compensated but had been told to "stop whining" is saddening.
I would hate for EVE Guardian to ever suggest that the CFS welcomes assassins into their space in full knowledge of what their job is - and I'm sure that any they may kill down the line will be heartened by your words of wisdom on how different they are to pirates.
When one collects blood money is so important to distinguishing betweem murderers of the pirate stripe and murderers of the asassin stripe.
Feel certain that we take on board your generous public announcement and will endeavour to ensure that we spread its message widely within the Galaxy.
"Piracy is illegal in CFS space but Assassination is totally legitimate."
Once again we thank you for clarifying your stance in such a wonderfully dramatic and public fashion. We commend you on the way in which you so carefully help to ensure the safety of your citizens... it is truly unique.
|
Miss Cleo
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 02:52:00 -
[7]
Whats the difference between pirates and mercenaries?
Pirates dont pay restitution.
READ EVE GUARDIAN
|
Calladen Nimitz
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 03:07:00 -
[8]
I'm proposing a bill to the CFS Senate to deal with future mercenary corp incursions into CFS space.
As for Macross the only party I've heard anyone complain about is Dark Goddess. From my understanding she is the only one who has committed acts of piracy and she remains on the CFS KOS list. As Macross itself has not advocated piracy, has paid full restitution and has given us their blessing to destroy Dark Goddess it seems punishing their entire corporation over the actions of one loose cannon would be improper.
That being said I would expect Macross will dismiss Dark Goddess from their corp given she has clearly engaged in piracy. I await their decision and that will influence my future legislative proposals in the CFS regarding mercenaries and Macross in particular.
Calladen Nimitz 
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 03:13:00 -
[9]
Quote:
has paid full restitution
What part of JGR being told they should stop whining and they wont get any compensation is the CFS completely incapable of understanding?
What part of Of the equation for ship and fittings and implants does not even begin to be covered or qualify as "full restituion"?
Hello?
See that Corp up there? JGR?
Then see the quotes?
I want some of the stuff you guys are smoking because i tell you - in the real world "full restitution" isnt what we were given nor was JGR being told to "stop whining" "full restitution."
Seriously - wake up CFS!
|
Calladen Nimitz
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 03:23:00 -
[10]
My understanding of the incidents involving the CFS indy's that were destroyed is that restitution was paid. If non-CFS corps suffered losses they need to negotiate on their own with Macross. We'll be addressing the "assassins in our midst" issue in the next day or two.
Calladen Nimitz
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 03:29:00 -
[11]
Hate to tell you this Cal but the portion your Pres so nicely highlighted doesnt say anything about it needing to be CFS corps... mind you the bit your Pres highlighted is, i suspect, about to come back and bite you all in the arse in anycase.
If you dont take steps to protect your own citizens they may well take their own to do so. Letting all us "visitors" to CFS *cough* Protectorate *cough* *Irony* space know we are all on our own is very reassuring also.
Personally i think you all just opened a can of worms you couldnt even take the effort or time to see.
/em shrugs.
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 04:01:00 -
[12]
PS:
I just placed a contract on Yodaron.
He will be assassianted within the next week.
Please will the President take note to only fly a small ship as I do not wish to pay out too much in restitution.
I will not, of course, pay for implants or any fittings or cargo.
For hiring these assassins I am of course free to roam CFS space at whim as the president has given his blessing.
The same applies to those who i have hired as I am, in advance, giving notice of restitution.
By presidential decree if anybody decries my actions or those of the actual perpetrators I will point you to your own presidents words and his total agreement with the concept, pratice and philosophical implications of allowing, nay, supporting, assassination teams.
(oh - and... up to you Yodaron if you think its a joke or not.)
Have a nice day.
|
Silinary
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 05:05:00 -
[13]
Well morkt, would you rather we go along the lines of how some feel about now with the whole issue?
"A good alternative would be to close up space and kick you all out"
Some truly feel that way, and I'm sure this whole issue doesn't help to sway some people's thinking that it shouldn't be that way.
No, CFS space remains open, but sometimes, it's necessary to watch your own back, the Navy can't be everywhere... and last I checked, you don't pay their paycheck. OR would you like to?
You can do anything you set your mind to. |
SOL0
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 05:43:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I'm proposing a bill to the CFS Senate to deal with future mercenary corp incursions into CFS space.
As for Macross the only party I've heard anyone complain about is Dark Goddess. From my understanding she is the only one who has committed acts of piracy and she remains on the CFS KOS list. As Macross itself has not advocated piracy, has paid full restitution and has given us their blessing to destroy Dark Goddess it seems punishing their entire corporation over the actions of one loose cannon would be improper.
That being said I would expect Macross will dismiss Dark Goddess from their corp given she has clearly engaged in piracy. I await their decision and that will influence my future legislative proposals in the CFS regarding mercenaries and Macross in particular.
Calladen Nimitz
Dark Goddess is no longer associated with Macross Combat Corporation. Dark Goddess tendered her resignation because she refused to cease and desist in her actions of piracy. Her actions have never been sanctioned by Macross outside of the fullfilment of a contract. Compensation was paid to non-combatant parties that were podded or pod killed, not to our targets.
As has been advertised on a daily basis in CFS's public channel a 30,000,000 isk bounty is being offered for the corpse of Dark Goddes.
2003.11.17 06:45:00
Dear Macross Combat Corporation,
I here by tender my resignation to you.
Dark Goddess.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
tigress
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:15:00 -
[15]
Edited by: tigress on 18/11/2003 11:17:44
Edited by: tigress on 18/11/2003 11:16:49
Hm, this is turning into an ugly beast.
Just to make sure - We in Genco roam the same space, we're NOT CFS, and we have a KOS list too. A rather long one. And Macross may be on it - for reasons they can take with us.
CFS is not the only entity of justice in FIX-space.
Edit:
I am however pleased to head Dark godess is no longer affiliated with macross.
--
 |
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:27:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 11:32:00
Quote:
PS:
I just placed a contract on Yodaron.
He will be assassianted within the next week.
Please will the President take note to only fly a small ship as I do not wish to pay out too much in restitution.
I will not, of course, pay for implants or any fittings or cargo.
For hiring these assassins I am of course free to roam CFS space at whim as the president has given his blessing.
The same applies to those who i have hired as I am, in advance, giving notice of restitution.
By presidential decree if anybody decries my actions or those of the actual perpetrators I will point you to your own presidents words and his total agreement with the concept, pratice and philosophical implications of allowing, nay, supporting, assassination teams.
(oh - and... up to you Yodaron if you think its a joke or not.)
Have a nice day.
Right so as you are taking a contract out on the CFS president I assume you will be leaving CFS space straight away as that comstitutes a act of war against the CFS by BBBB and as such you lose the protection you currently recieve for nothing in our space.
We dont know who hired Macross at the end of the day but you have just admitted that you made the contract thus making you liable.
Talk about turn round and bite the hand that feeds you. You take the protection and the freedoms the CFS gives then turn around and attack us.
Why dont you move your operations somewhere else thus removing yourself from CFS space and any conflicts of interest you seem to have.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
|
tigress
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:28:00 -
[17]
Talon:
You don't think you are getting a bit pathetic here? You know what I mean.
What good will come out of empty threats?
--
|
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:35:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Talon:
You don't think you are getting a bit pathetic here? You know what I mean.
What good will come out of empty threats?
No Tigress but thanks anyway. Im not making a threat I'm making a point please think about what you read and read in between the lines.
And the CFS is the main body of Justice in the FIX.
Tal
Talon
What goes around comes around...
|
Nicholas Marshal
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:41:00 -
[19]
Hi talon !
I'm new to the region around Gehi (and a few of my mates are thinking of travelling here as well) - a few questions:
(1)Are the regions beneath Gehi (the ones without any stations) 'safe' to travel in ?
(2)Are there jip blockades in the aformentioned regions ?
(3)Who are the local nasty pirate type people/anarchists ?
|
Nirvy
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:41:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 11:32:00
Quote:
PS:
I just placed a contract on Yodaron.
He will be assassianted within the next week.
Please will the President take note to only fly a small ship as I do not wish to pay out too much in restitution.
I will not, of course, pay for implants or any fittings or cargo.
For hiring these assassins I am of course free to roam CFS space at whim as the president has given his blessing.
The same applies to those who i have hired as I am, in advance, giving notice of restitution.
By presidential decree if anybody decries my actions or those of the actual perpetrators I will point you to your own presidents words and his total agreement with the concept, pratice and philosophical implications of allowing, nay, supporting, assassination teams.
(oh - and... up to you Yodaron if you think its a joke or not.)
Have a nice day.
Right so as you are taking a contract out on the CFS president I assume you will be leaving CFS space straight away as that comstitutes a act of war against the CFS by BBBB and as such you lose the protection you currently recieve for nothing in our space.
We dont know who hired Macross at the end of the day but you have just admitted that you made the contract thus making you liable.
Talk about turn round and bite the hand that feeds you. You take the protection and the freedoms the CFS gives then turn around and attack us.
Why dont you move your operations somewhere else thus removing yourself from CFS space and any conflicts of interest you seem to have.
Tal
LOL you should re-read Morkt's post, it seems to have gone way over your head. Then maybe retract your hollow threat?
Mercenary | The Azath |
Nicholas Marshal
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:47:00 -
[21]
Is there a CFS comm channel ?
|
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:51:00 -
[22]
Nirvy I should re-read my posts again which totaly seem to have gone over your head and then go back to playing with your sticky bricks and lego.
So let me say it again for the "hard of thinking" THIS WAS NOT A THREAT but a point much in the same way Im sure that Morkt's was
Tal
What goes around comes around
What goes around comes around...
|
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:52:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Is there a CFS comm channel ?
Yeah CFS public.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
|
tigress
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 11:55:00 -
[24]
Edited by: tigress on 18/11/2003 11:56:02
Talon, yes of course it is the main body of justice in the fix. Or atleast the gathered name for it.
I was just making sure you werent accually making this a real treat. You can never be too sure can you?
Tigress out.
--
|
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 12:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 12:17:26
Here you go Nic
(1)Are the regions beneath Gehi (the ones without any stations) 'safe' to travel in ?
Yes and no the p rats get chased around but they can still catch the unwary so always keep an eye in local
(2)Are there jip blockades in the aformentioned regions ?
Sometimes again be wary
(3)Who are the local nasty pirate type people/anarchists ?
Cyrus and Jonas are of note just keep an eye in the CFS public channel
Regards
Tal
What goes around comes around...
|
Nicholas Marshal
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 12:14:00 -
[26]
Thanks Talon. And thanks again for that trade last night ! I've been wanting one of those for ages, but never really able to justify the expense/afford it.
My memory is 21 now !
I'm trying to convince the rest of my corp (about 8 people) to move to Gehi as well).
|
Spawn El'Marr
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 13:00:00 -
[27]
In my little world a assassin or a hired killer is equally criminal as a pirate. And the same goes for a corp hosting such individuals.
I really can't understand how a peaceful alliance who talk about law and order can allow a corp who work in this shady business to operate in their space killing CFS members or other peaceful corporations and allies in CFS space.
Even if Dark Goddess has left Macross now they still supported her actions yesterday and the day before and the last week and did know about it, and they spoke highly about her as a valuable member etc etc.
Would you remove M3G4 and BioMass from the KOS list too today if they say they will stop piracy? I think not ...
If CFS Navy is not strong enough to protect the space and enforce the KOS List or does not dare to put people on it, the result will be that corps starts to seal of parts of Space to protect themselves.
What have stopped corps from doing that so far is that CFS Navy and other corps have been keeping law and order, but it does not look like they can do that anymore?
And what will CFS Navy do the same day Corp X kill Macross Members because Corp X has on their KOS list or defends themselves from a Macross assassination? Will Corp X then be accused for piracy for killing other corps in the lawful CFS space, even if they just protected themselves? If I see a Macross in Local, can I be sure he is not after me or my corp mates?
And one final question, how can you all think that Macross would kill Indies just for fun, or accident, then pay restitution to one corp after the other without gaining anything on it?
They have of course looted the cargo, taken all the modules and valuable cargo, which is far more valuable than a Indy for 500k plus a clone for a million.
Gentlemen, that is no accidents, it's business... ie, it's nothing else than pure Piracy.
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:22:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Even if Dark Goddess has left Macross now they still supported her actions yesterday and the day before and the last week and did know about it, and they spoke highly about her as a valuable member etc etc.
That is exactly the point. S0L0 went as far as to defend her actions, and stating I should "stop whining", and now he's pointing out how their corporation should be cleared of any wrong-doing since the person behind the gun is no longer with them.
Quote:
Compensation was paid to non-combatant parties that were podded or podkilled, not targets.
Oh, so you're saying some NVA corp decided to pay you to go kill a JGR indi in CFS space? lol, we have no contact with NVA or any if its corporations for that matter, and anyone seeking to shoot at our members will probably have better luck finding us at our home region! 
Thats like going after Everlasting Vendetta in Lonetrek. Will you find EV in Lonetrek? Probably not, but a large member base means you might. Good logic! 
Seriously, all of you people are debating whether theyre pirates or not, whether theyre assasins or not. Look at the facts.. MCC opens fire on my corporations industrial, MCC claims we will get no compensation.. thus supporting Dark Goddess's actions, MCC then claims Dark Goddess not part of them anymore and they are absolved of all responsibility. Sounds like a cowards way out of accepting responsibility to me.
"Corp X" just might come down to CFS space and start shooting up some pirate wannabes.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:23:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Right so as you are taking a contract out on the CFS president I assume you will be leaving CFS space straight away as that comstitutes a act of war against the CFS by BBBB and as such you lose the protection you currently recieve for nothing in our space.
We dont know who hired Macross at the end of the day but you have just admitted that you made the contract thus making you liable.
Talk about turn round and bite the hand that feeds you. You take the protection and the freedoms the CFS gives then turn around and attack us.
Why dont you move your operations somewhere else thus removing yourself from CFS space and any conflicts of interest you seem to have.
Tal
I will not leave as hiring assassins is a legitimate business according to your president and we DO know who hired Macross.
Your senate also know as they gave me the information.
I cannot bite a hand that does not protect me. They have invited back into the supposedly free-space corporation of assassins and pirates.
Pretty simple - and im surprised you also back the idea of CFS space being open for assassins.
The CF is ot offering me any protection at all in this regard.
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:25:00 -
[30]
Quote:
and we DO know who hired Macross.
Your senate also know as they gave me the information
Mind passing that info along to my CEO?
Thanks
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |