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Yodaron Ballsithor
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Posted - 2003.11.18 01:58:00 -
[1]
I received this mail from my Minister of Foreign Relations, Kai Viqtorr.
"Just received from Cerys Ereint:
2003.11.17 20:08:00
We at EG were VERY surprised to find out today that Macross Combat Corp and their allies are no longer KOS to the CFS and are welcome back into CFS.
We are most interested in finding out why the CFS would allow known assassins and pirates to operate within their space?
Frankly - we are astounded by these developments.
Your comments would be appreciated to the question:
Why, after having been clearly shown to be both murders for hire and pirates, have the CFS seen fit to remove this corporation from their KOS listings and given them the right to fly within CFS "protected" space again?"
I could have responded in private to mail; however, I believe it only appropriate that CFS respond publicly and clearly to these "astounding" questions. Frankly, I am "astounded" that no one from Eve Guardian has apparently read our Free space Bill. It is posted, together with our Charter and other passed bills on our open forums for all to read. The link is here: CFS Charter and Bills
The relevant portion of the Free Space Bill is as follows:
"This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in
Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilites and make reparations before they are destroyed."
I trust there is no further question concerning our position.
To my knowledge restitution has been made by the offenders, with the exception of Dark Goddess. The Free Space Bill closes that inquiry. Dark Goddess remains on the CFS KOS list. Regarding Macross itself, they are being removed from the KOS list, although the claim that they have already is false. (Anyone bothering to check our KOS list before asking "astounding" questions would have seen Macross listed as KOS.) I publish that decision now.
I am frankly "astounded" that someone would draw a comparison between a paid mercenary and a pirate. Such an analogy is like comparing legitimate PVP corporations with mining corporations. They are entirely different occupations and have been recognized as such from DAY ONE in Eve.
Macross was contracted by Enlightened One from the Intersteller Defense Initiative to execute contracts on apparently two (2) corporations that an NVA corporation desired eradicated. Innocents were killed and restitution was paid. Macross and the Initiative know that CFS will not tolerate contract killing within it's space. They have agreed to honor that position. If they fail in their obligation, they will be KOS and they know this. They have onored that agreement to this point and paid the restitution as required. Until they fail in that obligation, they are free (as are all) to fly in our space to conduct legitimate bsiness.
By the way, if anyone had bothered to look at the CFS KOS list he/she/it would have found several individuals listed as KOS and their corporation not listed at all. The reasoning is obvious and will not be repeated here.
CFS will not tolerate killing in its space unless the combatants are involved in a declared war, i.e., publicly acknowledged and declared war. In this event, we prefer them to take their issues elsewhere or demand they pay ompensation for collateral damage.
I was told a long time ago the KISS theory. Kep It Simple Stupid. That I will:
Simply put, we at CFS honor our laws and expect others within our space to do the same.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 02:17:00 -
[2]
looks at JGR Corp.
Looks at Yodaron.
Looks at Yodaron post.
Looks at macross quote:
"No reperations will made to your corp, I don't care about your whining."
Looks at EG question.
Thinks Yodaron should get his chronology correct before mounting the high horse.
/emote chuckles at diplomatic blunder and thinks CFS should stick to not publishing private eve-mails.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.11.18 02:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 18/11/2003 02:29:49
double post 
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.11.18 02:29:00 -
[4]
Yeah, I'm not even gonna bother anymore.
If you think its ok to invite a known pirate corp back into protected space, and claim it ok just because you KOSed the one who was behind the gun, then you need to reconsider your position, "Mr President".
Place their entire corporation on Kill-on-Sight unless they make *full* reparations, like your charter stated.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 02:35:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilites and make reparations before they are destroyed."
I trust there is no further question concerning our position.
Yeah ive got some:
What does the above have to do with hired assassins coming into CFS - now known hired assassins, coming into CFS space and being allowed to operate freely.. what does that have to do with "no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control "
??
I mean... i just dont see the relevant bit?
Personally, seeing as these guys have already stated they are assassins - its what they do, it doesnt seem unreasonable to think "hey - look MAcross is back in CFS space. Gee pop..why do you think they are here this time?"
Rocket science stuff.
Im sure the family of the next asassinated pilot will think kindly of the flowers you send to put on their grave.
"We at the CFS are so sorry for your loss - we never expected assassins to come into our space and assassinate people... there wa sno way we could protect you" 
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Cerys Ereint
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Posted - 2003.11.18 02:47:00 -
[6]
Quote:
I received this mail from my Minister of Foreign Relations, Kai Viqtorr.
"Just received from Cerys Ereint:
2003.11.17 20:08:00
We at EG were VERY surprised to find out today that Macross Combat Corp and their allies are no longer KOS to the CFS and are welcome back into CFS.
We are most interested in finding out why the CFS would allow known assassins and pirates to operate within their space?
Frankly - we are astounded by these developments.
Your comments would be appreciated to the question:
Why, after having been clearly shown to be both murders for hire and pirates, have the CFS seen fit to remove this corporation from their KOS listings and given them the right to fly within CFS "protected" space again?"
I could have responded in private to mail; however, I believe it only appropriate that CFS respond publicly and clearly to these "astounding" questions. Frankly, I am "astounded" that no one from Eve Guardian has apparently read our Free space Bill. It is posted, together with our Charter and other passed bills on our open forums for all to read. The link is here: CFS Charter and Bills
The relevant portion of the Free Space Bill is as follows:
"This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in
Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilites and make reparations before they are destroyed."
I trust there is no further question concerning our position.
To my knowledge restitution has been made by the offenders, with the exception of Dark Goddess. The Free Space Bill closes that inquiry. Dark Goddess remains on the CFS KOS list. Regarding Macross itself, they are being removed from the KOS list, although the claim that they have already is false. (Anyone bothering to check our KOS list before asking "astounding" questions would have seen Macross listed as KOS.) I publish that decision now.
I am frankly "astounded" that someone would draw a comparison between a paid mercenary and a pirate. Such an analogy is like comparing legitimate PVP corporations with mining corporations. They are entirely different occupations and have been recognized as such from DAY ONE in Eve.
Macross was contracted by Enlightened One from the Intersteller Defense Initiative to execute contracts on apparently two (2) corporations that an NVA corporation desired eradicated. Innocents were killed and restitution was paid. Macross and the Initiative know that CFS will not tolerate contract killing within it's space. They have agreed to honor that position. If they fail in their obligation, they will be KOS and they know this. They have onored that agreement to this point and paid the restitution as required. Until they fail in that obligation, they are free (as are all) to fly in our space to conduct legitimate bsiness.
By the way, if anyone had bothered to look at the CFS KOS list he/she/it would have found several individuals listed as KOS and their corporation not listed at all. The reasoning is obvious and will not be repeated here.
CFS will not tolerate killing in its space unless the combatants are involved in a declared war, i.e., publicly acknowledged and declared war. In this event, we prefer them to take their issues elsewhere or demand they pay ompensation for collateral damage.
I was told a long time ago the KISS theory. Kep It Simple Stupid. That I will:
Simply put, we at CFS honor our laws and expect others within our space to do the same.
Dear Mr President,
Your lack of protocol is only dwarfed in scale by your lack of capable assistants. For them to fail to point out to you the publically available information that corps' had not only not been compensated but had been told to "stop whining" is saddening.
I would hate for EVE Guardian to ever suggest that the CFS welcomes assassins into their space in full knowledge of what their job is - and I'm sure that any they may kill down the line will be heartened by your words of wisdom on how different they are to pirates.
When one collects blood money is so important to distinguishing betweem murderers of the pirate stripe and murderers of the asassin stripe.
Feel certain that we take on board your generous public announcement and will endeavour to ensure that we spread its message widely within the Galaxy.
"Piracy is illegal in CFS space but Assassination is totally legitimate."
Once again we thank you for clarifying your stance in such a wonderfully dramatic and public fashion. We commend you on the way in which you so carefully help to ensure the safety of your citizens... it is truly unique.
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Miss Cleo
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Posted - 2003.11.18 02:52:00 -
[7]
Whats the difference between pirates and mercenaries?
Pirates dont pay restitution.
READ EVE GUARDIAN
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.18 03:07:00 -
[8]
I'm proposing a bill to the CFS Senate to deal with future mercenary corp incursions into CFS space.
As for Macross the only party I've heard anyone complain about is Dark Goddess. From my understanding she is the only one who has committed acts of piracy and she remains on the CFS KOS list. As Macross itself has not advocated piracy, has paid full restitution and has given us their blessing to destroy Dark Goddess it seems punishing their entire corporation over the actions of one loose cannon would be improper.
That being said I would expect Macross will dismiss Dark Goddess from their corp given she has clearly engaged in piracy. I await their decision and that will influence my future legislative proposals in the CFS regarding mercenaries and Macross in particular.
Calladen Nimitz 
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 03:13:00 -
[9]
Quote:
has paid full restitution
What part of JGR being told they should stop whining and they wont get any compensation is the CFS completely incapable of understanding?
What part of Of the equation for ship and fittings and implants does not even begin to be covered or qualify as "full restituion"?
Hello?
See that Corp up there? JGR?
Then see the quotes?
I want some of the stuff you guys are smoking because i tell you - in the real world "full restitution" isnt what we were given nor was JGR being told to "stop whining" "full restitution."
Seriously - wake up CFS!
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.18 03:23:00 -
[10]
My understanding of the incidents involving the CFS indy's that were destroyed is that restitution was paid. If non-CFS corps suffered losses they need to negotiate on their own with Macross. We'll be addressing the "assassins in our midst" issue in the next day or two.
Calladen Nimitz
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 03:29:00 -
[11]
Hate to tell you this Cal but the portion your Pres so nicely highlighted doesnt say anything about it needing to be CFS corps... mind you the bit your Pres highlighted is, i suspect, about to come back and bite you all in the arse in anycase.
If you dont take steps to protect your own citizens they may well take their own to do so. Letting all us "visitors" to CFS *cough* Protectorate *cough* *Irony* space know we are all on our own is very reassuring also.
Personally i think you all just opened a can of worms you couldnt even take the effort or time to see.
/em shrugs.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 04:01:00 -
[12]
PS:
I just placed a contract on Yodaron.
He will be assassianted within the next week.
Please will the President take note to only fly a small ship as I do not wish to pay out too much in restitution.
I will not, of course, pay for implants or any fittings or cargo.
For hiring these assassins I am of course free to roam CFS space at whim as the president has given his blessing.
The same applies to those who i have hired as I am, in advance, giving notice of restitution.
By presidential decree if anybody decries my actions or those of the actual perpetrators I will point you to your own presidents words and his total agreement with the concept, pratice and philosophical implications of allowing, nay, supporting, assassination teams.
(oh - and... up to you Yodaron if you think its a joke or not.)
Have a nice day.
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Silinary
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Posted - 2003.11.18 05:05:00 -
[13]
Well morkt, would you rather we go along the lines of how some feel about now with the whole issue?
"A good alternative would be to close up space and kick you all out"
Some truly feel that way, and I'm sure this whole issue doesn't help to sway some people's thinking that it shouldn't be that way.
No, CFS space remains open, but sometimes, it's necessary to watch your own back, the Navy can't be everywhere... and last I checked, you don't pay their paycheck. OR would you like to?
You can do anything you set your mind to. |
SOL0
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Posted - 2003.11.18 05:43:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I'm proposing a bill to the CFS Senate to deal with future mercenary corp incursions into CFS space.
As for Macross the only party I've heard anyone complain about is Dark Goddess. From my understanding she is the only one who has committed acts of piracy and she remains on the CFS KOS list. As Macross itself has not advocated piracy, has paid full restitution and has given us their blessing to destroy Dark Goddess it seems punishing their entire corporation over the actions of one loose cannon would be improper.
That being said I would expect Macross will dismiss Dark Goddess from their corp given she has clearly engaged in piracy. I await their decision and that will influence my future legislative proposals in the CFS regarding mercenaries and Macross in particular.
Calladen Nimitz
Dark Goddess is no longer associated with Macross Combat Corporation. Dark Goddess tendered her resignation because she refused to cease and desist in her actions of piracy. Her actions have never been sanctioned by Macross outside of the fullfilment of a contract. Compensation was paid to non-combatant parties that were podded or pod killed, not to our targets.
As has been advertised on a daily basis in CFS's public channel a 30,000,000 isk bounty is being offered for the corpse of Dark Goddes.
2003.11.17 06:45:00
Dear Macross Combat Corporation,
I here by tender my resignation to you.
Dark Goddess.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
tigress
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:15:00 -
[15]
Edited by: tigress on 18/11/2003 11:17:44
Edited by: tigress on 18/11/2003 11:16:49
Hm, this is turning into an ugly beast.
Just to make sure - We in Genco roam the same space, we're NOT CFS, and we have a KOS list too. A rather long one. And Macross may be on it - for reasons they can take with us.
CFS is not the only entity of justice in FIX-space.
Edit:
I am however pleased to head Dark godess is no longer affiliated with macross.
--
 |
Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:27:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 11:32:00
Quote:
PS:
I just placed a contract on Yodaron.
He will be assassianted within the next week.
Please will the President take note to only fly a small ship as I do not wish to pay out too much in restitution.
I will not, of course, pay for implants or any fittings or cargo.
For hiring these assassins I am of course free to roam CFS space at whim as the president has given his blessing.
The same applies to those who i have hired as I am, in advance, giving notice of restitution.
By presidential decree if anybody decries my actions or those of the actual perpetrators I will point you to your own presidents words and his total agreement with the concept, pratice and philosophical implications of allowing, nay, supporting, assassination teams.
(oh - and... up to you Yodaron if you think its a joke or not.)
Have a nice day.
Right so as you are taking a contract out on the CFS president I assume you will be leaving CFS space straight away as that comstitutes a act of war against the CFS by BBBB and as such you lose the protection you currently recieve for nothing in our space.
We dont know who hired Macross at the end of the day but you have just admitted that you made the contract thus making you liable.
Talk about turn round and bite the hand that feeds you. You take the protection and the freedoms the CFS gives then turn around and attack us.
Why dont you move your operations somewhere else thus removing yourself from CFS space and any conflicts of interest you seem to have.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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tigress
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:28:00 -
[17]
Talon:
You don't think you are getting a bit pathetic here? You know what I mean.
What good will come out of empty threats?
--
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:35:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Talon:
You don't think you are getting a bit pathetic here? You know what I mean.
What good will come out of empty threats?
No Tigress but thanks anyway. Im not making a threat I'm making a point please think about what you read and read in between the lines.
And the CFS is the main body of Justice in the FIX.
Tal
Talon
What goes around comes around...
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:41:00 -
[19]
Hi talon !
I'm new to the region around Gehi (and a few of my mates are thinking of travelling here as well) - a few questions:
(1)Are the regions beneath Gehi (the ones without any stations) 'safe' to travel in ?
(2)Are there jip blockades in the aformentioned regions ?
(3)Who are the local nasty pirate type people/anarchists ?
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:41:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 11:32:00
Quote:
PS:
I just placed a contract on Yodaron.
He will be assassianted within the next week.
Please will the President take note to only fly a small ship as I do not wish to pay out too much in restitution.
I will not, of course, pay for implants or any fittings or cargo.
For hiring these assassins I am of course free to roam CFS space at whim as the president has given his blessing.
The same applies to those who i have hired as I am, in advance, giving notice of restitution.
By presidential decree if anybody decries my actions or those of the actual perpetrators I will point you to your own presidents words and his total agreement with the concept, pratice and philosophical implications of allowing, nay, supporting, assassination teams.
(oh - and... up to you Yodaron if you think its a joke or not.)
Have a nice day.
Right so as you are taking a contract out on the CFS president I assume you will be leaving CFS space straight away as that comstitutes a act of war against the CFS by BBBB and as such you lose the protection you currently recieve for nothing in our space.
We dont know who hired Macross at the end of the day but you have just admitted that you made the contract thus making you liable.
Talk about turn round and bite the hand that feeds you. You take the protection and the freedoms the CFS gives then turn around and attack us.
Why dont you move your operations somewhere else thus removing yourself from CFS space and any conflicts of interest you seem to have.
Tal
LOL you should re-read Morkt's post, it seems to have gone way over your head. Then maybe retract your hollow threat?
Mercenary | The Azath |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:47:00 -
[21]
Is there a CFS comm channel ?
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:51:00 -
[22]
Nirvy I should re-read my posts again which totaly seem to have gone over your head and then go back to playing with your sticky bricks and lego.
So let me say it again for the "hard of thinking" THIS WAS NOT A THREAT but a point much in the same way Im sure that Morkt's was
Tal
What goes around comes around
What goes around comes around...
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:52:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Is there a CFS comm channel ?
Yeah CFS public.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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tigress
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:55:00 -
[24]
Edited by: tigress on 18/11/2003 11:56:02
Talon, yes of course it is the main body of justice in the fix. Or atleast the gathered name for it.
I was just making sure you werent accually making this a real treat. You can never be too sure can you?
Tigress out.
--
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.18 12:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 12:17:26
Here you go Nic
(1)Are the regions beneath Gehi (the ones without any stations) 'safe' to travel in ?
Yes and no the p rats get chased around but they can still catch the unwary so always keep an eye in local
(2)Are there jip blockades in the aformentioned regions ?
Sometimes again be wary
(3)Who are the local nasty pirate type people/anarchists ?
Cyrus and Jonas are of note just keep an eye in the CFS public channel
Regards
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.11.18 12:14:00 -
[26]
Thanks Talon. And thanks again for that trade last night ! I've been wanting one of those for ages, but never really able to justify the expense/afford it.
My memory is 21 now !
I'm trying to convince the rest of my corp (about 8 people) to move to Gehi as well).
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Spawn El'Marr
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Posted - 2003.11.18 13:00:00 -
[27]
In my little world a assassin or a hired killer is equally criminal as a pirate. And the same goes for a corp hosting such individuals.
I really can't understand how a peaceful alliance who talk about law and order can allow a corp who work in this shady business to operate in their space killing CFS members or other peaceful corporations and allies in CFS space.
Even if Dark Goddess has left Macross now they still supported her actions yesterday and the day before and the last week and did know about it, and they spoke highly about her as a valuable member etc etc.
Would you remove M3G4 and BioMass from the KOS list too today if they say they will stop piracy? I think not ...
If CFS Navy is not strong enough to protect the space and enforce the KOS List or does not dare to put people on it, the result will be that corps starts to seal of parts of Space to protect themselves.
What have stopped corps from doing that so far is that CFS Navy and other corps have been keeping law and order, but it does not look like they can do that anymore?
And what will CFS Navy do the same day Corp X kill Macross Members because Corp X has on their KOS list or defends themselves from a Macross assassination? Will Corp X then be accused for piracy for killing other corps in the lawful CFS space, even if they just protected themselves? If I see a Macross in Local, can I be sure he is not after me or my corp mates?
And one final question, how can you all think that Macross would kill Indies just for fun, or accident, then pay restitution to one corp after the other without gaining anything on it?
They have of course looted the cargo, taken all the modules and valuable cargo, which is far more valuable than a Indy for 500k plus a clone for a million.
Gentlemen, that is no accidents, it's business... ie, it's nothing else than pure Piracy.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.11.18 14:22:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Even if Dark Goddess has left Macross now they still supported her actions yesterday and the day before and the last week and did know about it, and they spoke highly about her as a valuable member etc etc.
That is exactly the point. S0L0 went as far as to defend her actions, and stating I should "stop whining", and now he's pointing out how their corporation should be cleared of any wrong-doing since the person behind the gun is no longer with them.
Quote:
Compensation was paid to non-combatant parties that were podded or podkilled, not targets.
Oh, so you're saying some NVA corp decided to pay you to go kill a JGR indi in CFS space? lol, we have no contact with NVA or any if its corporations for that matter, and anyone seeking to shoot at our members will probably have better luck finding us at our home region! 
Thats like going after Everlasting Vendetta in Lonetrek. Will you find EV in Lonetrek? Probably not, but a large member base means you might. Good logic! 
Seriously, all of you people are debating whether theyre pirates or not, whether theyre assasins or not. Look at the facts.. MCC opens fire on my corporations industrial, MCC claims we will get no compensation.. thus supporting Dark Goddess's actions, MCC then claims Dark Goddess not part of them anymore and they are absolved of all responsibility. Sounds like a cowards way out of accepting responsibility to me.
"Corp X" just might come down to CFS space and start shooting up some pirate wannabes.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 14:23:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Right so as you are taking a contract out on the CFS president I assume you will be leaving CFS space straight away as that comstitutes a act of war against the CFS by BBBB and as such you lose the protection you currently recieve for nothing in our space.
We dont know who hired Macross at the end of the day but you have just admitted that you made the contract thus making you liable.
Talk about turn round and bite the hand that feeds you. You take the protection and the freedoms the CFS gives then turn around and attack us.
Why dont you move your operations somewhere else thus removing yourself from CFS space and any conflicts of interest you seem to have.
Tal
I will not leave as hiring assassins is a legitimate business according to your president and we DO know who hired Macross.
Your senate also know as they gave me the information.
I cannot bite a hand that does not protect me. They have invited back into the supposedly free-space corporation of assassins and pirates.
Pretty simple - and im surprised you also back the idea of CFS space being open for assassins.
The CF is ot offering me any protection at all in this regard.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.11.18 14:25:00 -
[30]
Quote:
and we DO know who hired Macross.
Your senate also know as they gave me the information
Mind passing that info along to my CEO?
Thanks
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Yodaron Ballsithor
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Posted - 2003.11.18 14:28:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Yodaron Ballsithor on 18/11/2003 14:33:40
To answer a couple of simple matters, since those issues raised herein seem to be simple.
I understand Morkt was offered reparations. I understood that offer was rejected. If I am wrong, please advise. Here is the link to where Solo, in fact, states he offered compensation: Solo Offer
If any corporation that lost property or was damaged by Macross action has not been compensated, please advise. If the shooter was other than Dark Goddess, please advise.
Dark Goddess still remains KOS and will be dealt with accordingly.
Regarding the thought that someone can come in more than one time and pay restitution (i.e., come in a second time and do the same thing), forget it. That person will remain KOS.
EveGuardian: You posit questions without knowing the facts, framing them in a fashion that makes your position appear to be righteous. All I have simply asked you to do before going off on these tangents and being
astounded" by our actions is to read our laws. I did not make them; however, I will enforce them.
To the others, if you act in a KOS fashion towards a corporation or individual that is not KOS in our space, then you will also be treated as KOS.
To Morkt: You can contract my death if you so desire. As stated, that would constitute an act of war. If your threat is real, which I must assume it is until otherwise withdrawn, your ships are to remain out of CFS space. If they enter, we will deal with them as well.
CFS does not tolerate contract killing in it's space and those engaged in such in our space will be KOS. I made that clear in my first post. What part of that do you not understand?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 14:32:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 18/11/2003 14:34:27
Quote:
To answer a couple of simple matters, since those issues raised herein seem to be simple.
I understand Morkt was offered reparations. I understood that offer was rejected. If I am wrong, please advise.
If any corporation that lost property or was damaged by Macross action has not been compensated, please advise. If the shooter was other than Dark Goddess, please advise.
Dark Goddess still remains KOS and will be dealt with accordingly.
Regarding the thought that someone can come in more than one time and pay restitution (i.e., come in a second time and do the same thing), forget it. That person will remain KOS.
EveGuardian: You posit questions without knowing the facts, framing them in a fashion that makes your position appear to be righteous. All I have simply asked you to do before going off on these tangents and being
astounded" by our actions is to read our laws. I did not make them; however, I will enforce them.
To the others, if you act in a KOS fashion towards a corporation or individual that is not KOS in our space, then you will also be treated as KOS.
To Morkt: You can contract my death if you so desire. As stated, that would constitute an act of war. If your threat is real, which I must assume it is until otherwise withdrawn, your ships are to remain out of CFS space. If they enter, we will deal with them as well.
CFS does not tolerate contract killing in it's space and those engaged in such in our space will be KOS. I made that clear in my first post. What part of that do you not understand?
You made it clear that the price of a CFS citizens life is the price of their clone plus whatever ship they are flying.
You created a class society overnight dictated by the wealth of the pilot and his current class of ship.
You welcomed in known assassins with an open pledge for future assassins of safe passage after paying weregild and you have betrayed your own Bill "Free and lawful space for all".
And now you are acting on "gossip" to break that law again.
Offer some proof positive of ANY assassination on you or shut up.
CFS cannot dictate to anybody, within its so-called space or not, what they say or think or...and this is YOUR proclamation, contract others to do.
I am not doing anything wrong, it is a legitimate business - take it up with the assassins.
Do you understand now?
Edit: If you want to find things out Yodaron it helps a lot if you ASK, not just blurt things out publically you know? I know its proven that the CFS doesnt now give a rats ass for any non-members in its space but you can at least have the courtesy to show some effort if nothing else.
|
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:37:00 -
[33]
Morkt
Be realistic if you went into any Alliances space and told them you had taken a contract out on there President you would get podded.
Ok what is the legitimate business reason you have taken this contract out ?
What goes around comes around...
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Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:43:00 -
[34]
Quote:
If your threat is real, which I must assume it is until otherwise withdrawn, your ships are to remain out of CFS space. If they enter, we will deal with them as well.
This is free space Yodaron.
You cannot make me leave for taking part in legitimate business.
"Free space" means i can take part in any legitimate business. YOU decided assassination was legitimate business. YOU. Yodaron Ballisthor , President of the CFS.
You need to amke your mind up - is assassiantion elgitimate or not. If it is then I stay by your own laws and you cannot touch me. If it isn't then Macross and any other assassins and their hirers go.
Simple stuff really.
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Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:48:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Morkt
Be realistic if you went into any Alliances space and told them you had taken a contract out on there President you would get podded.
Ok what is the legitimate business reason you have taken this contract out ?
YOUR president thinks it is legitimate business Talon. Not me. I think murder is murder and can't be bought for the price of a clone.
If the assassins pay reperations they ahve done nothing wrong. Fact. Fact outlined and promised publically by your president.
Now that the CFS President is also dictating who can and cannot come to "CFS Space" based on his own personal opinions where does it stop?
I ahve broken no laws. I am free to travel and partake of any other business activities by your own bill of rights.
Your president is breaking YOUR laws - not me.
Try asking him to realise the concequences of his outburst and we might get somewhere.
|
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:50:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 14:51:36
Quote:
Quote:
If your threat is real, which I must assume it is until otherwise withdrawn, your ships are to remain out of CFS space. If they enter, we will deal with them as well.
This is free space Yodaron.
You cannot make me leave for taking part in legitimate business.
"Free space" means i can take part in any legitimate business. YOU decided assassination was legitimate business. YOU. Yodaron Ballisthor , President of the CFS.
You need to amke your mind up - is assassiantion elgitimate or not. If it is then I stay by your own laws and you cannot touch me. If it isn't then Macross and any other assassins and their hirers go.
Simple stuff really.
Its Free space as kept free by the CFS. I think you are abusing our hospitality.
Yodaron has already said thet this sort of action will not be allowed in future so let it lie Morkt. All your doing right now is damaging relations between your Corp and CFS.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 14:57:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Its Free space as kept free by the CFS. I think you are abusing our hospitality.
It is NOT free and lawful space. You are letting assassins roam it at will.
You have openly invited in assassins and told them that so long as they pay blood money they will not be destroyed.
Just look at what he said and think of this:
I come to CFS space to kill Yodaron.
I find him in a bestower, kill it and pod Yodaron.
I pay him 1 million for a clone and 500k for the bestower.
by HIS proclamation Im free to leave peaceably.
- - -
Theres nothing you can do - HE set the rules and he has to either now retract them or live (or die) by them.
Keep It Simple Stupid.
as your pres would say.
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Spawn El'Marr
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Posted - 2003.11.18 15:12:00 -
[38]
If I get killed by Macross, you say he should pay bloodmoney for my clone and ship. Ie 4 million.
What about the 35million in implants, the 20 million in modules he loot and all my cargo worth say 10 million?
There is something wrong in that calculation.
I loose stuff worth aprox 70 million, the Macross guy gets my stuff worth 30 million and I get 4 million back.
All this because it's legal to be a assassin in CFS space and that a known pirate corp is free to roam freely in CFS space.
Hey, where are the cops?!?
Please, dispatch Concord to Jk-FIX 
|
Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:21:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 18/11/2003 15:23:06
Quote:
Quote:
Its Free space as kept free by the CFS. I think you are abusing our hospitality.
It is NOT free and lawful space. You are letting assassins roam it at will.
You have openly invited in assassins and told them that so long as they pay blood money they will not be destroyed.
Just look at what he said and think of this:
I come to CFS space to kill Yodaron.
I find him in a bestower, kill it and pod Yodaron.
I pay him 1 million for a clone and 500k for the bestower.
by HIS proclamation Im free to leave peaceably.
- - -
Theres nothing you can do - HE set the rules and he has to either now retract them or live (or die) by them.
Keep It Simple Stupid.
as your pres would say.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
1)There are not gangs of mercs roaming CFS space there has been 1 incident that has highlighted an issue which is now being looked at.
2)As far as im aware from discussions in the Senate we wont be allowing Mercs to use our space. Get over it already.
3) Better confirm whether you have taken a contract out (I'm sure you haven't). Just to confirm your security status in the FIX which is CFS.
4) You are not CFS you do not dictate to us or interpret our laws for us. Do you in anyway contrubute to those that keep CFS free for most ? no well until you do or you join us you dont really have a say in the goings on of this Alliance.
Regards
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:32:00 -
[40]
Quote:
You are not CFS you do not dictate to us or interpret our laws for us. Do you in anyway contrubute to those that keep CFS free for most ? no well until you do or you join us you dont really have a say in the goings on of this Alliance.
Glad to see the "Most" now included in that.
How short the life of "all". It will be mourned by many.
We shall see what we shall see.
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Calladen Nimitz
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:33:00 -
[41]
Morkt and Cerys,
As you well know CFS is a democracy. A bill is now up for vote which would prohibit mercenary activity in CFS space. I'd ask you and EveGuardian to refrain from any further public comment on this issue until the bill is either passed or rejected (48 hours time).
Any other complaints, comments, biased newspaper articles and everything else will only appear as trolling since we are dealing with the issue. We will deal with this issue as fast as we're allowed to under the voting provisions in the CFS charter.
Thank you,
Calladen Nimitz
|
NGRU Rix
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:39:00 -
[42]
Who do you punish, the Merc or the people who hired the Merc? A Merc is doing a job they were paid to do by a group who does not want to bloody their hands with a particular task.
So, do you capture the Merc and try to get the name of their employer or just kill the Merc? You don't solve the problem that way you know, they will just wake up at their cloning facility and come right back to finish the job.
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Talon SilverHawk
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:40:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Quote:
You are not CFS you do not dictate to us or interpret our laws for us. Do you in anyway contrubute to those that keep CFS free for most ? no well until you do or you join us you dont really have a say in the goings on of this Alliance.
Glad to see the "Most" now included in that.
How short the life of "all". It will be mourned by many.
We shall see what we shall see.
Qoute
You are funny, When I say most you know the few excluded are p-rats, mercs (soon)TM, nutters that take out contracts on Alliance presidents heads and other undesirables.
If I had said all you would have said
"All we know as you are letting assasins roam freely"
Just can't win aye
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:44:00 -
[44]
I like the hypocracy Calladen, Your president comes trolling and you accuse me of starting it?
Your president is ordering my corp out of space that it doesnt actually control anymore. Its flooded with pirates and now welcomes in assassins by his personal public proclamation.
Glad to see that somebody reminded him he is in a democracy.
How about somebody reminds him not to troll also?
I will not be "buttoned" by the CFS, they do not dictate the operations of my Corporation or our the way we think.
The sooner you lot realise that you have to live by what you print the better. "Free and lawful for all"... just keep chanting that to yourself and staple it to your Presidents forehead whilst you are at it.
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.18 15:46:00 -
[45]
As a bill has been introduced for CFS Senate consideration I'd ask all CFS members refrain from responding to posts, flames, trolls and anything else in this thread.
The matter is being dealt with according to our charter and democratic way of life. I'm sure EveGuardian and Morkt respect democracy and will refrain from any further criticisms until this bill is either passed or defeated in vote.
Calladen Nimitz
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Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:52:00 -
[46]
Quote:
You are funny, When I say most you know the few excluded are p-rats, mercs (soon)TM, nutters that take out contracts on Alliance presidents heads and other undesirables.
If I had said all you would have said
"All we know as you are letting assasins roam freely"
Just can't win aye
Tal
My problem is with your presidnt Talon, not with the CFS membership. He is such a sodding hypocrit touting his bits of your Bill or rights but missing the important bit.
He was also just touting his own personala genda and oopinions but "as" the CFS. "He" legitimised the free travel of assassins and legitimaised killier-for-hire and you and I both know that he did.
Its there in black and white.
In reality the wanderings of a two-bit bunch of indy-killers isnt of any note, that the CFS President can dictate law unilateral, ignore his own bills and abandon democracy that the CFS is supposedly founded on IS
He isnt a dictator but like his predecessor he thinks he is and makes up the law to suit his own personal opinions publicising his own personala genda as he sees fit.
THAT is what enfuriates me.
Did he even stop at all to contemplate the consequence sof his outburst? I doubt it - otherwise he would have seen clearly the idiocy of his statements on blood money, murderers and pirates.
|
Calladen Nimitz
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 15:54:00 -
[47]
Morkt,
The President leads the CFS but the Senate passes all bills and laws. We all have individual beliefs and opinions but until ratified by the Senate they are just that - individual and not policy. The president can make temporary policies under provisions in our charter while longterm policies are being discussed and voted on.
If this bill is approved in vote we will post it here for all to review. I'm sorry you had a bad experience in CFS space and lost a ship here. The sudden "piling on" of EveGuardian only reinforces the opinion of many that you indeed ARE EveGuardian. I must admit while I was willing to disagree with them in the past the ferocity of the EveGuardian comments and the fact they are completely one sided and step for step identical to yours makes even my peaceful mind wonder.
Perhaps you'd do us the pleasure of swearing to God your not (the real one not some fake ingame one)? That would pacify many in CFS who are concerned with their apparent lack of impartiality. I would believe you.
As you can tell we haven't dealt with this type of situation before. As once again time proves the "people" in Eve can come up with all kinds of new situations to exploit the unknowns and goodwill of others in the game (no this isn't an exploit thats a figure of speech). Clearly in this situation people have taken advantage of our not having a policy in place to deal with mercenary corps.
When the Senate votes on this bill it will either be passed or defeated. Either way you have the satisfaction of knowing we're dealing with it. Any further comments are pointless given the matter is being addressed.
Please give us a chance? I'd give you one.
Calladen Nimitz
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 16:50:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Morkt,
The President leads the CFS but the Senate passes all bills and laws. *snip* Please give us a chance? I'd give you one.
Calladen Nimitz
The paranoia of the CFS is astounding. As is their imagiantion if they think I can be 7 or 8 people at once.
As is any attempt to suggest that a democratic process is hindered by talking about it. What definition of democracy do you actual subscribe to where discussing points are considered detremental to the voting process in a democracy?
You baffle me with your dual standards.
- - -
I, Morkt Drak, do not work for, am not paid by, do not submit news to, or act as an agent for, do not own shares in, control any part of, or write for EVE Guardian. (I dont even like half of their news team who i happen to know the real names of).
I do, wholly, without recervation subscribe to their outlook and bias on freedom within EVE: that being anti-pirate, that being anti-murderers and that being anti-anarcy, that being pro-democracy and that being pro-law.
As such I wholly and unreservedly back them wherever they detail hypocracy in those who claim to be of the same metal.
Your president came out public to damn the press and as far as i am concerned he deserves to be shot for supporting assassins and assassiantions and trying to legitimise their activities... all this whilst waiving a banner of democracy (hello MR President try taking the vote THEN making the proclomation) and supposedly supporting "free and lawful space".
Murder is murder.
Those of us without their heads exploring alimentary tracts can clearly see that the Public outburst of the head of one of EVEs only two "democracies" is a dagger in the back of law and order.
Personally I think he should be stripped of office without pause for breaching the entire concept of democracy, and persoanlly, i think the entire CFS, and sadly yourself Calladen, should consider just how gagging opinion helps democracy of helps the CFS?
Assassins kill people.
Pirates kill people.
That may astound your president that "anybody could compare the two" but those of us living actually outside of stations see an immediate and obvious comparison.
Oh yes - look:
They both murder people.
Is that clear enough for you at the freedom loving CFS senate to understand?
Is that clear enough for you at teh freedom and law loving CFS to grasp WHY I support EVE Guardian.
Can Calladen remmber me saying the SAME thing to him at TTi when they went rogue and started aiding pirates and murderers?
This is me, Morkt Drak, who has never changed his stance on this, as you should well know. I dont need a news service to get angry at hypocracy and lies and even tacit support of murderers.
Is that clear enough?
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 17:41:00 -
[49]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 18/11/2003 17:43:32
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 18/11/2003 17:42:01
I am quite astonished and bewildered at the lack of cohesion the CFS has shown over these last couple days.
Things that were done incorrectly as of late:
1. CFS President identifies mercenary/assassination work as a legitimate and lawful practice.
2. CFS removes Macross Combat Corporation from KOS without waiting for this new bill to pass, and without making sure reparations were made fully.
3. CFS President states his opinion in a political forum without even waiting for this new "Mercenary" Bill to pass through the senate.
4. CFS President claims all reparations were made to the offended parties by Macross, when in fact, they have not. Those who recieved money, did not recieve what they are due, only a small fraction. The CFS needs to recognize total worth as being modules, implants, and cargo, not just ship and clone.
5. CFS trying to supress outside opinions on the forums.
and BY FAR, the LARGEST problem is the fact the CFS President claims anyone excersizing their right to take down a KOS-ed enemy in CFS space when that enemy is not KOS by their laws will be acted upon by the CFS Navy. This is all fine and dandy, makes sense too, but YOU'VE REMOVED A MERCENARY CORPORATION FROM YOUR KOS LIST!
How are we supposed to get closure on this?!
-We were not paid reparations
-CFS will do nothing to the corporation responsible
-CFS refuses to allow us to take matters into their own hands.
The only alternative I see is a full scale war, which is not even remotely politically favourable. Declare war on a small pirate-wannabe corp just so we can get at them without being shot down by the very people whom we hold respect for, and share the same ideals with.
Edit: I do not speak for my corporation, no officer or member can speak on behalf of our CEO. But evidently, if the members are displeased, the CEO will probably share the same thoughts.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Thunderstorm
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 18:56:00 -
[50]
Some people can't see beyond a first post, some people can't move beyond their own step, some people don't see further then their own toes, some people bump their toes on posts.
Grow up.
Thunder |
The Undertaker
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:09:00 -
[51]
Morkt you have once again proven yourself to be a *******.
Although your posts hold merit in the real world. this is a frelling game. People change...times change.
Move past it already...
|
Caldfyr Reynolds
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:20:00 -
[52]
This may be a sci-fi game, but it's also a social/political simulator. Morkt's comments are legitimate in both places.
Yodaran appears to be only partially informed, at least as far as the forums go. Solo's pathetic attempt at compensation is an insult to the victim and her corporation. If CFS needs to resort to allowing disreputables into their borders in order to avoid the embarrassment of not being able to deal with them, then I forsee a gradual fall of their alliance.
I thought the "free" in CFS was referring to freedom from aggression and tyranny, not free from accountability.
I'm rather disappointed.
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SOL0
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:24:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Quote:
Even if Dark Goddess has left Macross now they still supported her actions yesterday and the day before and the last week and did know about it, and they spoke highly about her as a valuable member etc etc.
That is exactly the point. S0L0 went as far as to defend her actions, and stating I should "stop whining", and now he's pointing out how their corporation should be cleared of any wrong-doing since the person behind the gun is no longer with them.
Quote:
Compensation was paid to non-combatant parties that were podded or podkilled, not targets.
Oh, so you're saying some NVA corp decided to pay you to go kill a JGR indi in CFS space? lol, we have no contact with NVA or any if its corporations for that matter, and anyone seeking to shoot at our members will probably have better luck finding us at our home region!
Thats like going after Everlasting Vendetta in Lonetrek. Will you find EV in Lonetrek? Probably not, but a large member base means you might. Good logic!
Seriously, all of you people are debating whether theyre pirates or not, whether theyre assasins or not. Look at the facts.. MCC opens fire on my corporations industrial, MCC claims we will get no compensation.. thus supporting Dark Goddess's actions, MCC then claims Dark Goddess not part of them anymore and they are absolved of all responsibility. Sounds like a cowards way out of accepting responsibility to me.
"Corp X" just might come down to CFS space and start shooting up some pirate wannabes.
I have never heard of your corporation until recently. Scare Bear Corp was eliminated, and they did not receive compensation.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
Yodaron Ballsithor
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:30:00 -
[54]
For the sake of being flamed by Morkt again, I will again simply state our Free Space Bill states you can pay pay restitution. Again, I did not write the bill and was not even a Senator when it was passed. That has occurred to my knowledge.
I have asked for those to come forward that have not been compensated. I have posted the link where Solo states he will provide compensation. No response.
Instead, wild claims that CFS is harboring assassins and allows that type of PVP in its space.
I post that contract murders are prohibited in our space and will result in KOS status. No response.
I post that more than one (1) incident involving the same individual/corporation will not be tolerated and will result in KOS status. No response.
Frankly, the only response I see has been that Morkt is unwilling to say if there really is or is not a contract on my life. I trust there is not such a contract, but the threat has been made. Of course, all Morkt has to do is withdraw the threat, but he is being obtuse regarding such a response.
If you are a lawful corporation or a lawful player in our space, we bid you no harm and our space is free to you. If your do not fit this bill, you are KOS. If you err in judgement one (1) time, the Free Space Bill allows compensation. If you err a second time, you receive no reprieve.
Constructive criticism is always welcomed. I am available to any that desire to speak with me. However, trolling, whether that be by asking "probing" questions with "astonishment" or by simply continuing to spin a situation to one that is suitable to the troller is not worthy of further discussion.
Provide facts and all of CFS will be happy to consider them and act appropriately. Making allegations without such facts is trolling.
I am glad the Senate is now considering a policy regarding mercenaries - i.e., contract killers. Whatever policy is approved will be followed. Until that time the CFS is dedicated to keeping it's space open to all lawful players and corporations, including those that have one (1) time crossed the line and have paid for it. The same will not obtain to those that publicly acknowledge they are crossing the line. They are simply KOS.
Finally, what truely amazes me is that no one has yet figured out, although it has been stated several times, that an NVA corporation contracted the killing of two (2) other corporations. I am wondering if NVA has the information concerning which of its corporations issued the contract and what actions have been taken by the NVA in this regard. I would trust the NVA, if they have the information in hand, just like the CFS, would not tolerate such behavior and would act accordingly.
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Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:31:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Morkt you have once again proven yourself to be a *******.
Although your posts hold merit in the real world. this is a frelling game. People change...times change.
Move past it already...
OoC: OoC means "Out of Character" btw.
Morkt is an Rp'd Character. This is RP. If you can't work that out then more fool you.
"Morkt" would make a stink, because "Morkt" cares about this sort of thing. Its in his character. "Morkt" led the charges agaisnt TTI because "Morkt" was of that Character - not because he disliked Calladen or any other member of TTi in RL.
It really is amazing how few people can actually grasp Role Playing nowadays.
You not only failed to grasp RP but also chose to make an alt to make an assinine point. Who is the "*******"?
I thank you for the best possible indication that I retain the ability to RP a character.
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Thunderstorm
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:38:00 -
[56]
Ignorance is bliss so it seems on forums with people not reading replies and ignoring what the can't use.
I believe CFS's statement was that mercenairies aren't allowed in CFS space, (after vote i thought) and untill that time all bikering about it being allowed etc is bull pure and simple. So the only thing remaining is about the reperations not being made etc. Get over it already. And a one time incident doesn't mean the whole region goes apedun.
Thunder
|
The Undertaker
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:44:00 -
[57]
Alt? Hmmm....try again friend. As for the RP issues, yes I see your point as I stated in my post. But Yoda stated several times that he needs more information about the inccident if his is incorrect. Have you given him that information since you "seem" to be so well informed about the situation? Have you tried to get the issue resolved or just move to the forums, which you do all the time, and flame.
Again, your points are well thought out and correct to some degree. But seriously, be mature and adult about it and work to resolve the issue...not continue to troll looking for flame potential.
Unless "Morkt" is RPing a 10 year complaining I stole his lolly pop.
|
SOL0
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:49:00 -
[58]
Guess it is time for me to open my mouth again.
There area few things that should be cleared up.
1. Macross has not been 'invited' back into CFS space. It is/was my understanding that we are/will no longer under the threat of death for entering CFS space. Can you see the difference here? One is an invitation: Hey SOL0, we would like Macross to come down here. The other is: Hey SOL0, you will no longer be shot if you are seen down here.
2. Macross has not been given clearence to fulfill contracts in CFS space, we were told that as long as we were not violating CFS rules we would be hunted.
3. Our only official target was Scare Bear Corp, who was dealt with.
4. I am beginning to think that 90% of the people that have responded to this forum can't read very well. Most of the things that Eve Guardian, Morkt, and crew have been complaining about were never said by Yodaron. Let me give you a hint. HINT: Read the whole original post.
5. No sanctioned Macross member has been in CFS space since the day in question. I am not aware of any intentions to return in the present.
Seems to me Morkt is just up to his usual antics of the supreme antagonist. It has been mentioned to me by several people that this is common behavior of Morkt, and getting a lot of neutral parties involved in a completed matter.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.11.18 19:51:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Finally, what truely amazes me is that no one has yet figured out, although it has been stated several times, that an NVA corporation contracted the killing of two (2) other corporations. I am wondering if NVA has the information concerning which of its corporations issued the contract and what actions have been taken by the NVA in this regard. I would trust the NVA, if they have the information in hand, just like the CFS, would not tolerate such behavior and would act accordingly.
TALK to your people damn it Yodaron.
YOUR bloody people told ME who it was.
FTLOG get a grip on your organisation and start talking to people not just making prissy statements.
Quote:
Constructive criticism is always welcomed. I am available to any that desire to speak with me. However, trolling, whether that be by asking "probing" questions with "astonishment" or by simply continuing to spin a situation to one that is suitable to the troller is not worthy of further discussion.
Yodaron - it is clear to everybody that you broke those "rules" yourself with this very thread. That remains an indesputeable fact.
This Entire thread of yours is a vast Trolling machine against EVE Guardian and all those who sought justice and were denied th opportunity by your smug proclamation of assassins being simple businessmen. let us see it once more in all its gory glory:
Quote:
I am frankly "astounded" that someone would draw a comparison between a paid mercenary and a pirate. Such an analogy is like comparing legitimate PVP corporations with mining corporations. They are entirely different occupations and have been recognized as such from DAY ONE in Eve.
Both are killers.
Killers, Yodaron. Murderers.
How is that astounding? Spot the similarity? They BOTH KILL PEOPLE.
Does it not amaze you that Macross Corp knew they were coming off your KOS list before you even posted this whole thread?
How does it amze you that EG also knew you were taking MACC off your KOS list.. and despite that you took the opportunity to flame them as being ignorant for not checking your KOS list?
Quote:
Why, after having been clearly shown to be both murders for hire and pirates, have the CFS seen fit to remove this corporation from their KOS listings and given them the right to fly within CFS "protected" space again?"
Honest, legitimate question, thrown back in the face of the public and used to taunt and troll explicitly without checking the facts.
Let em jsut repeat the bits you cant grasp;
CFS personnel KNOW who hired Macross.
Macross and EG KNEW theat Macross were coming off the KOS list when they asked the question yet you still trolled by saying:
Quote:
Regarding Macross itself, they are being removed from the KOS list, although the claim that they have already is false. (Anyone bothering to check our KOS list before asking "astounding" questions would have seen Macross listed as KOS.) I publish that decision now.
You had already made the decision - Macross ahd been told, EG found out about. **** Yodaron I knew about it too.
how much more factual evidence do you need to realise you are brutalising the reputation of the CFS?
Do you really need tos tart a new thread on those looking for compensation? Were the existing public claims still too dificult to find for you and your staf?
EVEN the ones in this thread?
Hello... My President? Is there anybody in there?
You know that for somebody who is berating others on their innacruacies and telling them to go read your bills you really are not bothering to do any checking yourself.
None at all.
Pathetic.
You're a disgrace to your Alliance.
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Spawn El'Marr
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:52:00 -
[60]
Quote:
. Until that time the CFS is dedicated to keeping it's space open to all lawful players and corporations, including those that have one (1) time crossed the line and have paid for it. The same will not obtain to those that publicly acknowledge they are crossing the line. They are simply KOS.
So humm, the facts :
that a corp gets a contract to kill a CFS Member (or several).
Thay they in fact succeeds with the mission.
Thay they then begin killing other innocent victims.
They they then acknowledge they kill people for Money.
That they then talk highly about the member killing innocent players as a valuable player.
That they then continue do this days after and brag about it in the CFS channel.
That they then pay a very modest fee to the pirated indies/players that does not repay them completely.
I can't see they are a lawful corp.
I can't see that the corp ones (1) crossed the line, but several times.
I can also see they publicly acknowledged they are assassins and killing people for money.
How come they are not KOS then?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:54:00 -
[61]
Quote:
Alt? Hmmm....try again friend. As for the RP issues, yes I see your point as I stated in my post. But Yoda stated several times that he needs more information about the inccident if his is incorrect. Have you given him that information since you "seem" to be so well informed about the situation? Have you tried to get the issue resolved or just move to the forums, which you do all the time, and flame.
Again, your points are well thought out and correct to some degree. But seriously, be mature and adult about it and work to resolve the issue...not continue to troll looking for flame potential.
Unless "Morkt" is RPing a 10 year complaining I stole his lolly pop.
OoC:
Will you PLEASE stop ruining this thread with how YOU would RP morkt?
Is that possible? Just to let me RP Morkt - i dont need advice on how you would RP him ok? I think, odd as it may seem, I know more about his aims here than you do? ok?
IC: Yoda hasnt even approched those who were shot up. You would have thought that the President of the space in which people are being wnatonly pirated would care to actually be proactive about such a thing?
Nut not Yodaron.. oh no. Despite them publically posting what occured and their grievences he just sits there and says "i know nothing."
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:56:00 -
[62]
Quote:
Guess it is time for me to open my mouth again.
There area few things that should be cleared up.
1. Macross has not been 'invited' back into CFS space. It is/was my understanding that we are/will no longer under the threat of death for entering CFS space. Can you see the difference here? One is an invitation: Hey SOL0, we would like Macross to come down here. The other is: Hey SOL0, you will no longer be shot if you are seen down here.
2. Macross has not been given clearence to fulfill contracts in CFS space, we were told that as long as we were not violating CFS rules we would be hunted.
3. Our only official target was Scare Bear Corp, who was dealt with.
4. I am beginning to think that 90% of the people that have responded to this forum can't read very well. Most of the things that Eve Guardian, Morkt, and crew have been complaining about were never said by Yodaron. Let me give you a hint. HINT: Read the whole original post.
5. No sanctioned Macross member has been in CFS space since the day in question. I am not aware of any intentions to return in the present.
Seems to me Morkt is just up to his usual antics of the supreme antagonist. It has been mentioned to me by several people that this is common behavior of Morkt, and getting a lot of neutral parties involved in a completed matter.
Amateur.
You haven't even got a clue what a Canary Trap is, have you?
Thanks for the info though. 
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The Undertaker
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:57:00 -
[63]
Edited by: The Undertaker on 18/11/2003 20:19:56
So now its Yoda's responsiblity to know everything? Come on...take some inititive yourself then. You cant blame him for not trying if your not going to yourself...
Most people have NO CLUE what it takes to run an alliance that size...
And BTW...I am not even in his alliance. Lol
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:58:00 -
[64]
While the bill is up for consideration and a vote I'll summarize it here. Basically CFS already has in its charter we will remain neutral in outside wars. Thus if two warring parties stumble in here (although we still ask you dont come here to hide) we won't interfere UNLESS you target non-combatant ships.
That being said we never had a policy dealing specifically with "mercenaries" who fulfill contracts against individual people.
As a result the bill up for vote would basically require mercenary corps to meet the same criteria as every other corp. That is they must meet the security level requirements to be in CFS space, not have big bounties, act peacefully and responsibly here and not pirate.
Also specified is any corp (mercenary or otherwise) that does engage in combat here must be in a state of declared war with a corporation or alliance. Thus "hits" on individuals will not be considered legal. If your going to stumble in here and blast each other you need to be at war in order for the provisions of the CFS charter (that being we are neutral) to apply. ANY OTHER MILITARY ACTION will be viewed as pirating.
If Macross or any other corps declares war on another corp thats one thing. They must still meet the overall criteria to enter CFS space.
Also note even though they may be "at war" if they fall below -2.0 or hit the bounty limit established by CFS they will be KOS in CFS space REGARDLESS of whether or not they are at war.
Now this is NOT a CFS policy yet. Its up for a vote and theres alot more to it but this is the rough idea behind the bill I proposed.
Calladen Nimitz
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SOL0
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:59:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Quote:
. Until that time the CFS is dedicated to keeping it's space open to all lawful players and corporations, including those that have one (1) time crossed the line and have paid for it. The same will not obtain to those that publicly acknowledge they are crossing the line. They are simply KOS.
So humm, the facts :
that a corp gets a contract to kill a CFS Member (or several).
Thay they in fact succeeds with the mission.
Thay they then begin killing other innocent victims.
They they then acknowledge they kill people for Money.
That they then talk highly about the member killing innocent players as a valuable player.
That they then continue do this days after and brag about it in the CFS channel.
That they then pay a very modest fee to the pirated indies/players that does not repay them completely.
I can't see they are a lawful corp.
I can't see that the corp ones (1) crossed the line, but several times.
I can also see they publicly acknowledged they are assassins and killing people for money.
How come they are not KOS then?
Scare Bear is not a member of the CFS alliance.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
SOL0
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Posted - 2003.11.18 20:03:00 -
[66]
Quote:
Quote:
Guess it is time for me to open my mouth again.
There area few things that should be cleared up.
1. Macross has not been 'invited' back into CFS space. It is/was my understanding that we are/will no longer under the threat of death for entering CFS space. Can you see the difference here? One is an invitation: Hey SOL0, we would like Macross to come down here. The other is: Hey SOL0, you will no longer be shot if you are seen down here.
2. Macross has not been given clearence to fulfill contracts in CFS space, we were told that as long as we were not violating CFS rules we would be hunted.
3. Our only official target was Scare Bear Corp, who was dealt with.
4. I am beginning to think that 90% of the people that have responded to this forum can't read very well. Most of the things that Eve Guardian, Morkt, and crew have been complaining about were never said by Yodaron. Let me give you a hint. HINT: Read the whole original post.
5. No sanctioned Macross member has been in CFS space since the day in question. I am not aware of any intentions to return in the present.
Seems to me Morkt is just up to his usual antics of the supreme antagonist. It has been mentioned to me by several people that this is common behavior of Morkt, and getting a lot of neutral parties involved in a completed matter.
Amateur.
You haven't even got a clue what a Canary Trap is, have you?
Thanks for the info though.
Hardly, everything I posted is already publicly available somewhere. Nor do I recall any numbered documents.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
Spawn El'Marr
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Posted - 2003.11.18 20:04:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Spawn El'Marr on 18/11/2003 20:04:54
Quote:
Scare Bear is not a member of the CFS alliance.
Ok, my misstake.
Lets change that point to :
- that a corp gets a contract to kill a neutral/friendly/peaceful pilot (or several).
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.18 20:05:00 -
[68]
OK Morkt we get the picture. You hate Yodaron and think hes incompetent and hypocritical. We all get the message.
/me looks at the dead horse laying on the side of the road.
Why dont you read my summary of the new bill I posted above and tell us what you think of that? You want "change" and accountability well there it is.
Calladen 
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Thunderstorm
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Posted - 2003.11.18 21:01:00 -
[69]
Again Morkt.
You're ignoring everything that has been said and ignoring or calling all things that you can't fit lies. Heh
I'll show you the same respect from now on.
Thunder |
Laby
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Posted - 2003.11.18 21:20:00 -
[70]
MORE MORE MORE!!!!
(I still have two hours at work)
http://laby.50megs.com/images/signature.jpg |
Spawn El'Marr
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Posted - 2003.11.18 22:12:00 -
[71]
Could the CFS President or a Senator please answer my above question?
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.18 22:40:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Could the CFS President or a Senator please answer my above question?
This action happened before the CFS where aware of the issue. Now it has become an issue we are looking at it.
All questions have been answered already above, Please read. Just because, and this goes for Morkt and co you dont agree or see our side does not mean that we are going to suddenly change our arguments or answers to suit you.
Morky sorry your just going on now and repeating things you have already stated.
We are looking at the issue if you are CFS you can take part in the debate if not go bother some other alliances space.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.11.19 05:42:00 -
[73]
Originally posted by Robert Heinlien on the official JGR forums:
Quote:
Cans 6,7 and 9 were lost to Dark Goddess at A2 along with my Beast.
There you go S0L0, there you go Mr. President.
You wanted all the facts, you have them. Our corporation was attacked.. we expected Macross to be KOS by the CFS as they are with us already, they apparently are not (invited or not, being removed from KOS essentially means the same thing).
Now that you have removed them from KOS, we are forbidden to act on them in CFS space. I don't blame, since apparently niether S0L0 or Yodaron seem to know what is going on.
Since S0L0 has made it quite clear we were not the targets..
When can we expect full compensation?
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.19 05:51:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 19/11/2003 05:53:49
Digital,
Apparently after investigating some information it looks as if Dark Goddess left Macross yesterday. She now shows as being in a newbie corp. I've confirmed that Macross itself is offering a very large bounty on her head.
As it appears all the cases of piracy involving Macross were because of one member (Dark Goddess) and that member was removed from their corporation it is apparent they had a member "go to the dark side" and embrace piracy.
Dark Goddess is already on the KOS list of the CFS. Macross has apparently ejected this pirate member. Depending on the time of your incident you may or may not have a course of action with Macross.
Either way the pirate Dark Goddess is KOS with the CFS and will remain so until the President decides otherwise. Macross which has paid restitution (if there are other claims please feel free to contact them and don't slam me because I don't know about them) and ejected the pirate is not on the CFS KOS list although they have not been invited back to CFS space. In fact I've asked them to stay away for the interim until a bill thats up for discussion in the CFS senate is approved or rejected.
Calladen Nimitz
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.11.19 12:19:00 -
[75]
The bounty money is better spent elsewhere.. like here.
Dark Goddess was part of Macross when she attacked, and Macross defended her actions, as a result, they are responsible for her deeds while she was with them.
This is not a member that has gone rouge and booted immediateley.. this is someone who had the backing of her corporation right up until things got very vocal and she was forced to leave.
Had so many people not complained, she would still be with them, and I would be most likley told to "stop whining" because we will "recieve no compensation".
She is KOS, I can understand that, but Macross must take responsibility especially since they were backing her up the whole time.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Spawn El'Marr
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Posted - 2003.11.19 12:34:00 -
[76]
Quote from the CEO of Macross:
"There are not nor will be considerations in removing Dark Goddess from MACC as she is a valuable asset and friend."
That was after Dark Goddess was accused for being a pirate and it was a well known fact she had killed innocent Indies.
It's clear Macross Corp supported the actions of Dark Goddess and I really hope the President and Senate will take a stance against Macross Corp for this.
CFS Senate, you can't really believe the corps in JK-FIX will sit idle and watch Macross corp travel freely inside CFS space. Who knows if they are on a mission to take out some other corp or a CFS member?
Maybe it's you they are after this time? No, if I or someone from my corp see any Macross in local we will not sit idle and wait for them to attack us first before we act, no we claim the right to protect ourselves and our members and allies from assassins and hired killers and therefore will kill them on sight no matter what CFS decides.
And yes, we will pay a small retribution to the pilot for the ship and a clone as compensation so we also can stay in JK-FIX and won't be accused for piracy. Same rules and laws for everyone, right?
Or is it the fact that Solo has been in the CFS channel a long time and knows some of you (or all his good CFS connections he has been bragging about) that makes you reluctant from adding him to the KOS list?
Will be interesting to see how long it takes until Dark Goddess is part of Macc again, when this storm is over...
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.19 13:08:00 -
[77]
Yawn.... Nothing new to see here move on
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.19 17:37:00 -
[78]
Quote:
Hardly, everything I posted is already publicly available somewhere. Nor do I recall any numbered documents.
I'll give you (and everyone else) this for free:
Canary Traps come in many different guises. They do not need to have numbers.
They do not need to contain "secret" information.
The key is simply in the arrangement of words and phrases and who you give them to.
I mean what should I say..
I know that the CFS gave you direct quotes from a private conversation I had with their Foreign Minister. It's one of the reasons I dont trust any of the CFS "Senate". They leak like a seive...never tell them anything you don't expect half a dozen pirate corps (and other agencies) to know about within minutes (they have more spies than a gutter-slaver has lice).
It also baffles me why they still claim not to know who hired you - when it was they who told me. (oh yes it was)
And I think even Sol0 can state openly, without breaking his "rules", that I do know exactly who hired them through Enlightened One.
There is thus much about this - such as both Macross, myself and EG knowing that Macross were coming off the KOS list before they were actually removed from it. (And as that is a constant source of punishement to berate poor old EG over their lack of reporting skills it is most ironic - it seems most everybody knew except poor Yodaron when he "announced it here.") - Oops I forgot - It was a CFS Senator who told me that information btw, no idea whre Macross and EG got it from. (And thanks for the "heads up" to 'you know who' at the CFS)
There is much about this that is beneath the surface and whatever obvious goals the ill-informed want to draw I cannot stop them.
For myself - There is nothing more for me to do here .
I thank you all and bid you fond farewell until next we meet. 
(PS - sol0 is my alt, as is Talon)
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.19 17:55:00 -
[79]
Quote:
Quote:
(PS - sol0 is my alt, as is Talon)
LMAO now that was funny
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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SOL0
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Posted - 2003.11.19 22:49:00 -
[80]
I am no bodies alt.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
heavyg
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Posted - 2003.11.20 13:55:00 -
[81]
Edited by: heavyg on 20/11/2003 13:56:46
I am a little confused by all of this. The only people who have rights to complain in this situation are a) those attacked or podded (and thier corps) or b) the cfs membership. Any other parties have the right to an opinion, and that is all as the internal running of CFS is of no bodies bussiness but the CFS's. If you are not a member you have no vote, if you have no vote you can think and say what you like but it will change nothing.
As once said "opinions are like backsides,............ we all have one and they all stink"!
If you dont like the way CFS is ran, then stay out, no one is forcing you to fly there, go hunt/mine elsewhere, i hear CA space is welcoming at this time of year
:)
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.20 15:32:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 20/11/2003 15:35:58
"No, if I or someone from my corp see any Macross in local we will not sit idle and wait for them to attack us first before we act"
If you'd care to post the name of your corp along with your members I'd appreciate it.
Just to reaffirm our policy. If you attack someone in CFS space who is not KOS with the CFS or has a bounty over 500,000 isk or a security rating below -2.0 or lower (thus someone we view as auto-KOS for being a pirate) your attack itself will be viewed as piracy unless your are defending yourself.
Defending yourself would imply that they shoot first in that instance.
In other words if your going to stomp your feet and throw a tantrum and go looking to start a fight please do it somewhere else. If you'd like to mine in peace and try to enjoy the game your welcome to stay.
Calladen
Calladen
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