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Apparently clone soldiers are property of players.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
JohnHoe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2015.07.30 19:12:42 - [1] - Quote I warped in to a belt last night attempting to kill an Ishkur. He was shooting a Clone Soldier Negotiator, in vain obviously. As soon as I landed he warped off before I could lock him. I was in a Cyclone, so that was expected. At that point the clone solider locks and tackles me. I have no choice but to kill it because of this. After I destroy his rat ass, I loot the wreck. Who wouldn't? As soon as I put the tag in my cargo hold it flags me as suspect saying I stole from the Ishkur dude's wreck. How is it his wreck when I'm the one who killed the rat? Is this the intended behavior of the criminal flagging system? What if I were just randomly warping to belts looking for rats. Say this ishkur shot the clone soldier and left the belt before I even knew he was there. When you enter a belt with a Clone Solider you have no choice but to fight it in some thing as slow as a BC. You can't leave because they point and web you almost immediately. Why should someone be flagged as suspect because they defended themselves against a dangerous and aggressive rat just because someone else shot it earlier? If you aren't aware the Negotiators are no joke with their tank and DPS. Am I expected to just leave the tag there? That kind of defeats the purpose of Clone Solider hunting doesn't it?
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2307	Posted - 2015.07.30 19:17:39 - [2] - Quote I believe the person who did the most damage gets the wreck.

CCP Darwin C C P C C P Alliance 1581	Posted - 2015.07.30 19:18:28 - [3] - Quote I believe that an NPC wreck is owned by the player who does the most damage to the NPC, rather than who shot first or last. Consider using your safety setting in situations where you wish to move fast and don't want to acquire a suspect flag. CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins

JohnHoe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2015.07.30 19:24:57 - [4] - Quote CCP Darwin wrote: I believe that an NPC wreck is owned by the player who does the most damage to the NPC, rather than who shot first or last. Consider using your safety setting in situations where you wish to move fast and don't want to acquire a suspect flag. What does safety settings have to do with shooting a rat who has aggro'd you first and has you hard tackled? My point was he was never going to kill it with an Ishkur. I had no choice but to kill it. It was either it or me. So you are saying once I do kill it I should just leave the wreck there unlooted even though I actually did the work? Again there is no way he was going to kill it.
Paranoid Loyd 6423	Posted - 2015.07.30 19:28:20 - [5] - Quote Your comments are not completely without merit but you were in low sec, who cares if you are suspect? Also, an Ishkur can easily kill clone soldiers, so I'm not sure what that comment is about. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2656	Posted - 2015.07.30 19:33:46 - [6] - Quote Server remember who shot what target for a bit, unless session change or something like that. So the ishkur did the most damage and got ownership of the wreck. You took from what was considered 'his' kill, therefore 'stealing' As to a safety, it wouldn't let you steal if you had it on green, but lowsec so no one cares.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2071	Posted - 2015.07.30 19:35:11 - [7] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: CCP Darwin wrote: I believe that an NPC wreck is owned by the player who does the most damage to the NPC, rather than who shot first or last. Consider using your safety setting in situations where you wish to move fast and don't want to acquire a suspect flag. What does safety settings have to do with shooting a rat who has aggro'd you first and has you hard tackled? My point was he was never going to kill it with an Ishkur. I had no choice but to kill it. It was either it or me. So you are saying once I do kill it I should just leave the wreck there unlooted even though I actually did the work? Again there is no way he was going to kill it. EDIT: How long does the system remember players who have shot a rat? If it's "forever" then that is a terrible mechanic. People hunt clone soldiers for profit. If some dude finds one and plinks away at it for 10 minutes with an interceptor before realizing he isnt going to win, why does he hold the rights to the profit? It's probably so you can't just warp in and deal the last 1 dmg needed on a rat and be granted the wreck because you killed it. Was the guy still in system when you finished off the rat because it might work in a similar war to kill-mails where you seem to shop up on it as long as you stay in system.
JohnHoe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:04:01 - [8] - Quote Killmails don't work that way anymore. I have gotten on plenty of mails recently where someone I shot has died after I left system. My issue here isn't going suspect in lowsec. That is expected when you go there with the intention of shooting other players. My concern is with how it happened. If some dude shoots a Clone Solider a half hour earlier for 10 minutes before giving up does he still retain "ownership" of the wreck? If so, can you see why that is a problem? Secondly, a clone solider isn't a regular NPC. They are dangerous and aggressive. In a ship like a batlecruiser, if you land in a belt with one you really have no choice but to kill it. The Negotiator points and webs. It is also faster than a MWD BC so you can't just leave. If I am fighting something that could possibly kill me why should I not be able to reap the rewards of obtaining the rights to the loot without being flagged?
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2307	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:19:56 - [9] - Quote Shooting and killing it doesn't make you a suspect. Taking the stuff out of the wreck does. I don't see what the problem is. Wreck ownership has worked like this for as long as I can remember. Besides that, you're in lowsec, who cares if you are suspect =x
Paranoid Loyd 6424	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:21:46 - [10] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: My issue here isn't going suspect in lowsec. If I am fighting something that could possibly kill me why should I not be able to reap the rewards of obtaining the loot without being flagged? If it's not an issue to go suspect in lowsec, then there is no issue. Are you arguing a point just to argue it? "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 22575	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:24:27 - [11] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: ... Are you arguing a point just to argue it? Loyd... there is no way in hell that you are new to GD.... *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Vikysya Immortals of New Eden DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:26:06 - [12] - Quote What an earlier poster meant about safety settings is that while shooting the rat won't make you a suspect in any case, looting someone else's wreck will. If your safety settings were on green then it wouldn't let you loot a wreck that belongs to someone else. Wreck ownership for any type of rat has always worked this way, the person dealing the most damage to it before it dies is the one who owns it. I believe this does reset if the rat returns to full health for a certain period of time. If you have brackets on that show a good amount of information it should show you the corp and alliance that owns the wreck. You should also be able to see this information by right-clicking on it and hitting show information. Hopefully this may help to clear things up for you.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3548	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:33:09 - [13] - Quote [quote=JohnHoe What does safety settings have to do with shooting a rat who has aggro'd you first and has you hard tackled? [/quote] Nothing. What the safety setting will do is warn you that the looting act will grant you a flag. Then you can make an informed decision on if you want to loot or not. Even with the safety set to yellow, the wreck will be yellow, so you know looting it will get you the flag. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Cyber SGB Mecha Enterprises Fleet 102	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:33:36 - [14] - Quote I can understand what he is saying. I'm of the mind, as soon as the other guy dropped lock on the npc and warped off, then, ownership should go to the next guy. With this mechanic, he is now able to be aggressed on a gate freely without gate guns helping out since he is a suspect. However, just warp to a safe spot and wait out the timer or just be happy that someone may aggress you now that normally wouldn't. I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
JohnHoe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:35:14 - [15] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: JohnHoe wrote: My issue here isn't going suspect in lowsec. If I am fighting something that could possibly kill me why should I not be able to reap the rewards of obtaining the loot without being flagged? If it's not an issue to go suspect in lowsec, then there is no issue. Are you arguing a point just to argue it? Re-read what I said. I do have an issue with how I went suspect. All I am asking for is clarification as to how long someone retains ownership of a the contents of an npc's cargo after doing "top damage". Just because I don't have a problem with going suspect doesn't mean I can't question some of the reasons it may happen. So relax.
Vikysya Immortals of New Eden DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:36:42 - [16] - Quote Cyber SGB wrote: I can understand what he is saying. I'm of the mind, as soon as the other guy dropped lock on the npc and warped off, then, ownership should go to the next guy. With this mechanic, he is now able to be aggressed on a gate freely without gate guns helping out since he is a suspect. However, just warp to a safe spot and wait out the timer or just be happy that someone may aggress you now that normally wouldn't. He could have killed the rat and pursued his victim no problem if he had chosen to. The problem was created by LOOTING a wreck owned by another player. Loot ownership has always worked like this and it's to flag people who warp into sites to steal people's loot. Though this isn't what he planned to do upon warping in this is what he ended up doing once he finished off the rat. I don't really see a problem with it working this way personally.
Hadrian Blackstone Yamato Holdings 157	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:38:43 - [17] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: Killmails don't work that way anymore. I have gotten on plenty of mails recently where someone I shot has died after I left system. My issue here isn't going suspect in lowsec. That is expected when you go there with the intention of shooting other players. My concern is with how it happened. If some dude shoots a Clone Solider a half hour earlier for 10 minutes before giving up does he still retain "ownership" of the wreck? If so, can you see why that is a problem? Secondly, a clone solider isn't a regular NPC. They are dangerous and aggressive. In a ship like a batlecruiser, if you land in a belt with one you really have no choice but to kill it. The Negotiator points and webs. It is also faster than a MWD BC so you can't just leave. If I am fighting something that could possibly kill me why should I not be able to reap the rewards of obtaining the loot without being flagged? I'm sure you'd be pissed if you did all the work on something and then some guy comes in at the last second and takes all the credit. And the Negotiator points but does not web, the Transporter webs but does not point, the Trainers/Recruiters only shoot. Also clone soldier ratting in a frig is the most efficient way to do it.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2656	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:41:20 - [18] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: a half hour earlier jesus, how long did it take you to kill the clone soldier?
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3548	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:43:57 - [19] - Quote The top damage doer rule is so: You shoot a rat. You are just about to kill it when someone else fires one shot, and gets the kill. Who owns the wreck? You, who did the most damage, or the guy who just happened to get that last shot? Note that the game does not track damage to a rat with who is still on-grid. That would be a code change, and my guess, a messy code change. But if CCP could make that change, it would solve this issue. The code would have to only consider those still on-grid when picking the top damage doer. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
JohnHoe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:44:33 - [20] - Quote Rowells wrote: JohnHoe wrote: a half hour earlier jesus, how long did it take you to kill the clone soldier? About 3-4 minutes. You are also missing the point. What I am saying is does the ownership flag last 30 minutes? Is it an hour or eight? Nobody knows because it is not documented.
Paranoid Loyd 6426	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:46:33 - [21] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: All I am asking for is clarification as to how long someone retains ownership of a the contents of an npc's cargo after doing "top damage". No this is not all that you are asking for, otherwise this is what the OP would have said. JohnHoe wrote: So relax. High as a kite, poolside with a margi, couldn't possibly be more relaxed. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Vikysya Immortals of New Eden DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:47:55 - [22] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: Rowells wrote: JohnHoe wrote: a half hour earlier jesus, how long did it take you to kill the clone soldier? About 3-4 minutes. You are also missing the point. What I am saying is does the ownership flag last 30 minutes? Is it an hour or eight? Nobody knows because it is not documented. If nobody knows then why don't you test it and share the information with the community as something constructive rather than taking this conversation in circles to a conclusion that won't help you any further since everyone has already explained to you why this happened, which is what your original post asked.
JohnHoe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:54:43 - [23] - Quote Vikysya wrote: JohnHoe wrote: Rowells wrote: JohnHoe wrote: a half hour earlier jesus, how long did it take you to kill the clone soldier? About 3-4 minutes. You are also missing the point. What I am saying is does the ownership flag last 30 minutes? Is it an hour or eight? Nobody knows because it is not documented. If nobody knows then why don't you test it and share the information with the community as something constructive rather than taking this conversation in circles to a conclusion that won't help you any further since everyone has already explained to you why this happened, which is what your original post asked. Yes I was told why this happened. At that point my question changed to "ok, so how long does this ownership last?". That's a pretty reasonable thing to wonder isn't it? Testing this would take a lot of effort and time. First I would have to find clone(s). I would shoot one, warp off, then come back with an alt an kill it x minutes later. Let's say I wait 30 minutes and still get flagged. I guess that means it's longer than that. So now I have to find another one and do the same thing only this time wait an hour, etc etc until I find the time flagging ends. All while hoping nobody else warps in before the time I was hoping to test is up. It's not feasible.
Paranoid Loyd 6427	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:59:10 - [24] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: It's not feasible. Then what would lead you to believe any answer you are given would be the correct one? "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Vikysya Immortals of New Eden DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2015.07.30 20:59:29 - [25] - Quote Right. I'm not saying it would be easy to test but if you really want to know the exact answer that is what you'd need to do. I already stated that the rat ownership does fade at a certain point once the rat has remained at full armor, shields, etc for a certain period of time, though I don't know what this time is exactly. If you do want to figure out the exact amount of time then you'd likely need to test it yourself because probably most people wouldn't bother to take the time to test it because, as you've mentioned, it would be a pain to test, though certainly feasible.
Hadrian Blackstone Yamato Holdings 157	Posted - 2015.07.30 21:05:09 - [26] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: JohnHoe wrote: All I am asking for is clarification as to how long someone retains ownership of a the contents of an npc's cargo after doing "top damage". No this is not all that you are asking for, otherwise this is what the OP would have said. JohnHoe wrote: So relax. High as a kite, poolside with a margi, couldn't possibly be more relaxed. You are blazed sitting poolside with a drink and you are on the EVE forums? I think you may have a problem...
Vikysya Immortals of New Eden DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2015.07.30 21:09:07 - [27] - Quote Hadrian Blackstone wrote: You are blazed sitting poolside with a drink and you are on the EVE forums? I think you may have a problem... I see no problems here. Seems like a perfect day off to me, though I'd probably be sitting outside playing Eve rather than being on the forums but if all I had was my phone then the forums would have to do :)
JohnHoe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2015.07.30 21:10:50 - [28] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: JohnHoe wrote: It's not feasible. Then what would lead you to believe any answer you are given would be the correct one? Because someone with one of those fancy blue tags that says Dev posted in the thread. I thought maybe he/she could answer that question. The rest is just me responding to folks who think the wreck should belong to the top damage dealer regardless of how much time has passed. I disagree with that stance. If someone leaves grid I feel they should forfeit that right. If they wanted it that bad he could have stayed to defend it. He did not. Discussing game mechanics is what this forum is for.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3551	Posted - 2015.07.30 21:33:22 - [29] - Quote JohnHoe wrote: Testing this would take a lot of effort and time. First I would have to find clone(s). I would shoot one, warp off, then come back with an alt an kill it x minutes later. Let's say I wait 30 minutes and still get flagged. I guess that means it's longer than that. So now I have to find another one and do the same thing only this time wait an hour, etc etc until I find the time flagging ends. All while hoping nobody else warps in before the time I was hoping to test is up. It's not feasible. It is on Sisi. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Paranoid Loyd 6428	Posted - 2015.07.30 21:35:55 - [30] - Quote As much as I like Darwin due to his honesty and desire to help, no dev should be posting about mechanics if they have to start their post with "I believe" to me this destroys any credibility and is counterproductive. Although to his credit when he has mis-posted in the past, he has corrected himself. Devs replying to threads is more the exception than the rule. If you want answers from CCP it is best to file a petition. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!

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