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its time ! FIX TEH MWD !

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mallina Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:00:00 - [61] no, no and no MWD and blasterships recieved a BOOST because of the HP and Cap increase/Cap booster size decrease (which many seem to have forgetton about) yet here are all the whiners complaining that Rev. somehow nerfed them. The cap boost along with HP boost means that: Cap has no more effect on combat than it did before and NOS has no more effect on combat than it did before ..but.. Because of the HP boost, the time taken to get to your target will be less significant. the MWD boost required to get to your target will also be less significant. ..meaning MWDing Blasterw***es have it easier than they did before. and then you have the new BCs which can use a 10mn MWD for practically forever now. so no, i dont think removing the cap penalty on MWDs is a good idea. As they are, they are balanced. IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead. ----------- Turbulance
Durethia Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.05 00:56:00 - [62] Originally by: mallina no, no and no MWD and blasterships recieved a BOOST because of the HP and Cap increase/Cap booster size decrease (which many seem to have forgetton about) yet here are all the whiners complaining that Rev. somehow nerfed them. The cap boost along with HP boost means that: Cap has no more effect on combat than it did before and NOS has no more effect on combat than it did before ..but.. Because of the HP boost, the time taken to get to your target will be less significant. the MWD boost required to get to your target will also be less significant. ..meaning MWDing Blasterw***es have it easier than they did before. and then you have the new BCs which can use a 10mn MWD for practically forever now. so no, i dont think removing the cap penalty on MWDs is a good idea. As they are, they are balanced. IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead. Oh my god. It's a Caldari pilot.... OK. Here's the deal. MWDs were severely nerfed a while back because people abused them. Putting two or three MWDs on a hauler... it IS the reason they have crazy fitting requirements. 1) MWDs should NOT require that much more Power Grid than an After Burner. The ONLY reason why they have crazy powergrid requirements is to make it impossible for haulers to fit more than one. They fixed this so that no ship could fit more than one AB or MWD, so why they kept the powergrid requirement is beyond me. 2) Also, because the MWD stacking... many ships were impossible to hit, even with webbers. So, the sig radius boost across the board (in disregard to blaster boats, which all of them have relatively large sig radius to start off with). Think an Interceptor with two MWDs.... Also the cap penalties... it was all put in place due to people abusing a system which they long fixed. Now, you have ships (Like the Thorax/Deimos/Daredevil) that are advertised with a MWD bonus, but they do NOT HAVE AN MWD BONUS. The Deimos has ONE LESS EFFECTIVE BONUS THAN ALL OTHER HACs! Might be one of the reasons people do not like the Deimos. 1) The Capacitor penalty needs to be removed for all ships. Caldari, Amarr all of us. 2) Ships currently with "MWD" bonuses, need to have a new Navigation bonus, like 10% bonus the MWD thrust, or 20% bonus to base speed of ship... or, 50% bonus to ship agility. 3) The powergrid requirements for MWD should drop maybe 60% or more; still more than an AB, but nowhere near what it is now. 4) The signature radius penalties should only apply to Frigates (Interceptors, AFs et al).
mallina Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.05 01:33:00 - [63] to sum your post up... make MWDs the same as ABs, but with 600% speed boost, thus making ABs obselete except for running plexes? if MWDs were as bad as you made out, people wouldnt use them anywhere near as much as they do. They think the incredible speed boost is worth the penalties and thus will fit one. as for the MWD bonus being useless: i beg to differ :/ its no worse than the Cap amount bonus on the Apoc, only forces you to fit an MWD to get it - which being essential for a lot of PVP, isnt really that much of a problem ----------- Turbulance
Ezra Gallente Calista Industries	Posted - 2006.12.05 03:28:00 - [64] Originally by: mallina to sum your post up... make MWDs the same as ABs, but with 600% speed boost, thus making ABs obselete except for running plexes? if MWDs were as bad as you made out, people wouldnt use them anywhere near as much as they do. They think the incredible speed boost is worth the penalties and thus will fit one. as for the MWD bonus being useless: i beg to differ :/ its no worse than the Cap amount bonus on the Apoc, only forces you to fit an MWD to get it - which being essential for a lot of PVP, isnt really that much of a problem MWDs used to have lower (and/or similar) fitting requirements but no penalties, people used ABs instead on many setups for two reasons: a) There are two cap reduction skills for afterburners (one to increase duration, one to decrease cap). Only one for MWD, and if I recall correctly, it doesn't improve as much per level. (I'm not logged in at the moment.) b) Even with equivalent skills, MWDs are major cap hogs. ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Calista Industries
Durethia Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.05 03:43:00 - [65] Originally by: mallina to sum your post up... make MWDs the same as ABs, but with 600% speed boost, thus making ABs obselete except for running plexes? ABs wouldn't become obsolete. They are used for complexes, and on ship fits that can't add a MWD because of hungry fitting requirements. The pilot has yet to train the necessary skills to fit an MWD, so they're only option is an AB. ABs will still be used for the above reasons, even if MWD fitting requirements were reduced.
mallina Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.05 04:16:00 - [66] so what, ABs are just for the noobs and missionrunners?.. the fact is an MWD gives you a HUGE advantage in PVP in near enough any situation. For that advantage, people need to sacrifice something important, like at current - Cap Amount (which is compensated easily enough with Cap Boosters) and the PG requirements which may equal the same as a single low tier gun, which is nothing - considering the benefits. the LAST thing we need is more people flying around in unbeatable MWDing Nano setups. removing cap penalty on MWD WILL turn it into a must-have module for every ship that isnt Caldari. ----------- Turbulance
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.12.05 04:33:00 - [67] lol at this thread. so... due to the shortcomings of a couple ships (or in this case, perhaps the pilots themselves) we are going to alter a mod so drastically that another would become completely obsolete and ANY non sniper/missile boat would LIKELY have to fit MWD in combat to remain competative. MWD does not = AB x10 for a good reason. just silly....
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:06:00 - [68] Originally by: mallina so what, ABs are just for the noobs and missionrunners?.. the fact is an MWD gives you a HUGE advantage in PVP in near enough any situation. For that advantage, people need to sacrifice something important, like at current - Cap Amount (which is compensated easily enough with Cap Boosters) and the PG requirements which may equal the same as a single low tier gun, which is nothing - considering the benefits. the LAST thing we need is more people flying around in unbeatable MWDing Nano setups. removing cap penalty on MWD WILL turn it into a must-have module for every ship that isnt Caldari. No. Ppl don't fit MWDs because of the cap penalty. Rather because their setup doesn't need it. And they don't have a mid slot to waste for it. And because it has insane fitting requirements. Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it? I didn't think so either. The penalties on the MWD are an unneeded relic, and should be removed. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Kazaam Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:41:00 - [69] Originally by: Thor Xian Power to the Afterburners. I think mwds need a rework...back into the travel mod they were intended to be. Give them same penalties (active or not) as WCS have now plus their cap/sig penalty. Give bonuses to Blasterboats Incursus, Thorax, Brutix, and Megathron (I refuse to call the Hype a blastership :p) bonuses to +30% AB Effectiveness per level (Additive to Acceleration Control, not multiplicative). AB = combat speed mod MWD = travel convenience mod (not that WTZ gives a reason to have it anymore, cept for bubble runs) Now double all Minmatar ship base speeds and reduce all mass by 20%. You've just killed the Interceptors ship class. _________________________________________ Originally by: Oveur EVE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEAAATHHH !!
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:15:00 - [70] Edited by: James Duar on 05/12/2006 13:16:58 Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: mallina so what, ABs are just for the noobs and missionrunners?.. the fact is an MWD gives you a HUGE advantage in PVP in near enough any situation. For that advantage, people need to sacrifice something important, like at current - Cap Amount (which is compensated easily enough with Cap Boosters) and the PG requirements which may equal the same as a single low tier gun, which is nothing - considering the benefits. the LAST thing we need is more people flying around in unbeatable MWDing Nano setups. removing cap penalty on MWD WILL turn it into a must-have module for every ship that isnt Caldari. No. Ppl don't fit MWDs because of the cap penalty. Rather because their setup doesn't need it. And they don't have a mid slot to waste for it. And because it has insane fitting requirements. Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it? I didn't think so either. The penalties on the MWD are an unneeded relic, and should be removed. I don't get it. Does the sig radius penalty not exist in some people's EVE or what? As it stands, not only am I burning cap like no tomorrow, but I also lose total cap on my rax and form a battleship sized target. EDIT: Sorry this wasn't really directed at you either.

Great Artista Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:27:00 - [71] For the sake of balance, I have to say that this is a stupid idea. Nothing is actually broke with MWD, they are meant to be used in bursts, sudden speed increase. What they should NOT be are super AB's. ___________________________________ And I make lots of money, I make more money than you I drive around in my limo, that's what I was born to do And I might like you better if we ****** together.
Devon Manticore Minmatar Manticore Technologies	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:49:00 - [72] Originally by: Reatu Krentor Originally by: wierchas noobhunter so plz explain me why mwd are overpowered ? They don't need a nerf, but they don't need a boost either. What he said. Wheres my damn portrait!
Show Stopper	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:54:00 - [73] Edited by: Show Stopper on 05/12/2006 14:55:12 Stupid Alt...
Zyxlo Gallente Gravis Corp	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:56:00 - [74] Well Caldari ships were the reson for mwd nerf and then unnerf to some degree. How? well it was long time ago. Dual mwd torp ravens with sensor damps anyone? or 4 mwd scorps? Now those were deadly and uncounterable. Sadly none of the Gallente ships have enough grid to fit more then 1 mwd (even with out of the box setups). Nerf hit blasterboats the most, remember-> blasters=close range, close range=below 5km. It used to give %25 penalty to capacitor capacity and shield amount. But, shield penalty? omg Caldari use shields!!!It got removed.. But since they don't use cap like Amarr or Gallente who cares about the cap nerf. Amarr and mwd? well yeah upto a degree as ab is,erm, not upto it? MWD is a must to gallente line of ships except when rails fitted and some ships are better with rails to do some tasks. But pvp cals for below 20km engagements. Gallente ships are more fit to be solo ships by design. ALmost every close range ship uses a MWD,webber,scrambler. If they got 4 mids, put in the cap injector. A Rax with ions has to fight below 3km with AM, mega 5km or so. In order to hit your opponent you've got to get into that range, slow down enough to get your blasters hitting and hope that you are not into deep armor by the time you get there. If the pilot were using a Caldari boat, easy, sit standing still, lock the mwd'in ships that is coming towards you whih has the sig radius of a moon and spam missiles of your choice. Full dmg till Gal pilot deactivates his mwd. If Amarr, repeat the sequence, except get excellent and wreckings with lasers. Minnie? mix the two. Jam the opponent? sure. I'll use 5 med or 5 heavy jammers on the opponent but since the opponent will be locking me faster than i do with mwd on, and having more mid slots or same drone bay makes the point moot. Drive a Domi? yeah, just fyi some of us like domi and nos+ecm settings and it is still deadly. But is just that. Nothing more. Reason for it? Domi doesn't have enough grid to fit weapons of mass destruction and this setup is a cookie cutter. And the unnerf to mwd would benefit other races more than it does to Gallente. Every mission runner's Raven almost have one, some of the fleet ships have one fitted. It is a must for every ceptor. SO just because you think Gallente will benefit from it you say nay. If it was Caldari would you oppose or would you be the one of the posters going /signed in a thread as long as my arm? This game is better of getting renamed Caldari Online-Jita Chronicles
Brother Todd	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:04:00 - [75] Originally by: Zyxlo And the unnerf to mwd would benefit other races more than it does to Gallente. Every mission runner's Raven almost have one, some of the fleet ships have one fitted. It is a must for every ceptor. SO just because you think Gallente will benefit from it you say nay. If it was Caldari would you oppose or would you be the one of the posters going /signed in a thread as long as my arm? This game is better of getting renamed Caldari Online-Jita Chronicles Every mission raven has a MWD? MWDs don't work in deadspace you idiot. And Gallente will be benefiting most from this change as Amarr ships lack cpu to fit MWDs and minmatar ships aren't as cap dependent. BTW: Gallente are much better off than Caldari and have been for a while, so don't go spewing that 'Caldari online' crap.
Zyxlo Gallente Gravis Corp	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:14:00 - [76] Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:17:43 Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:16:51 I hate these boards. Stupid double post
Zyxlo Gallente Gravis Corp	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:16:00 - [77] Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:22:05 I hate these boards anyway. Have to type in for the 5th time. For short, not every 'encounter' classed as deadspace. I'd give up missile launchers on my mega to have the mwd penalties removed but that is just me. And please keep the language on par with whom you reply to. Last. This game favors Caldari by all means. Other races get some abilities by some out of the box, cookie cutter setups that CCP haven't though about.
mallina Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:37:00 - [78] Originally by: Laboratus Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it? I didn't think so either. Actually, I would MWD Zealot. MWD Pilgrim. MWD Geddon MWD Nanoraven. MWDs on Capitals. ----------- Turbulance
Jeanpierre Duvall Caldari Spectral Armada Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:47:00 - [79] I would really like a Critical failur change to the MWD. So that it explodes on activation and leave you with 10% hull. Oh.. Only every 3 times out of 5 tho. Naa.. Seriously. MWD is good as it is. But maybe a slight boost to cap for the Rax and Mega. Or a reduce in cap use for Blasters.
Spike 68 Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:14:00 - [80] Edited by: Spike 68 on 05/12/2006 16:15:38 Originally by: mallina IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead. I think that just about nails it there. More speed boost more penalty, it makes sense to me. Also, they are indeed used as a quick burst. Anyone who leaves the mwd on in larger ships will soon see they made a mistake. When their cap is gone and their sig makes them the size of a moon.

DefJam101 Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:21:00 - [81] Originally by: turnschuh sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more Are you stupid? Gallente ships are worse than Amarr after the stupid HP boost. ***
SSgt Sniper Gallente In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:29:00 - [82] Originally by: Zyxlo Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:22:05 This game favors Caldari by all means. Other races get some abilities by some out of the box, cookie cutter setups that CCP haven't though about. QFT. I'd settle for the mwd skill changing to a simple duration one just like the ab skill tbh, gives me more time to close in so I don't need the thing for a second cycle. But You can't tell me that mwd isn't killing the hell out of the Mega (and Hype) with the new Faction sized HP on all ships. I haven't seen a Mega win a fight in days. And I just watched a NOS Domi wtfpwn the crap out of a hype yesterday. --------- Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
DefJam101 Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:31:00 - [83] Originally by: mallina no, no and no MWD and blasterships recieved a BOOST because of the HP and Cap increase/Cap booster size decrease (which many seem to have forgetton about) yet here are all the whiners complaining that Rev. somehow nerfed them. The cap boost along with HP boost means that: Cap has no more effect on combat than it did before and NOS has no more effect on combat than it did before ..but.. Because of the HP boost, the time taken to get to your target will be less significant. the MWD boost required to get to your target will also be less significant. ..meaning MWDing Blasterw*es have it easier than they did before. and then you have the new BCs which can use a 10mn MWD for practically forever now. so no, i dont think removing the cap penalty on MWDs is a good idea. As they are, they are balanced. IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead. This is the most 100% ill-gotten information I have ever seen. The HP boost means for DPS blaster boats... A) It now takes 2 times as long to kill you, which encourages blob PvP B) NOS now totally RUINS T1 PvP in it's entirety (Unless your Minmatarr/Caldari), since it's so horrendously overpowered. C) It's even worse when you use a MWD since by the time you even GET to your opponent, OVER HALF of your entire capacitor WILL most likely be gone. THats just to get in range, then you have to take 2 times as long to kill the person, all while being NOS'd. MWD Blasterboats SUCK atm All T1 ships without NOS suck now as well, although not as much *
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:34:00 - [84] As a gallente pilote i can say, all of these proposed changes suck. nos = teh evil, what we gonna do? no you silly not nerf nos, lets boost mwd! I see the ammar way of thinking has sneaked in. He! we are suffering from high em resists, what we gonna do. Yes give explosive crystals and swap em/therm around. How do you mean nerf omnitanks? Really bad way of thinking. If something is bad dont change something else because of it. Thorax does its job fine, so does the mega. There is no problem. _________________________________________________
Daelin Blackleaf Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:37:00 - [85] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/12/2006 16:50:01 The issue isn't really the MWD, it's the combat style. CCP have decreed that combat will be lengthened, therefore any setup that relied upon doing rapid damage to "gank" the opponent will now fail due to the increased need of a tank and capacitor in revelations. The problem here is that some ships seem designed for such tactics, and now they're screwed. You arrive in range for a fight with little cap, possibly less armor with ten mins plus of combat to look forward to using your cap eating weapons and very little tank. The quick answers are don't fit MWD, but an afterburner leaves most floating under fire for longer than the increased damage can make up for on arrival. Or fit a tank, which leaves rail ships with more DPS (magstabs). I DON'T think Gallente ships should be the I-Win Button, but I do feel this way of combat has been quite effectively killed and because it is primarily a Gallente style it's going to be seen as a Gallente problem. [EDIT: I will add that the Hyperion suffers less due to its inherent tanking bonus, but I've yet to truly test this ship out. Does this mean that the Mega is relegated to rail duty... probably. But the other "gank" designed ships (even those that dont operate in the 1-6km range) have suffered a grievous, yet aparrently unavoidable blow. My advice: Pray that the sweet stuff they're promising as the reason for extending combat time will help fix it. (Yarr, I Ganked ur Repperz!)
Brother Todd	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:56:00 - [86] Originally by: Zyxlo Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:22:05 I hate these boards anyway. Have to type in for the 5th time. For short, not every 'encounter' classed as deadspace. I'd give up missile launchers on my mega to have the mwd penalties removed but that is just me. And please keep the language on par with whom you reply to. Last. This game favors Caldari by all means. Other races get some abilities by some out of the box, cookie cutter setups that CCP haven't though about. Actually all encounters are classed as deadspace. And I don't care what you'd give up, it only shows how unbalancing it would be. The language was on par... And that last bit is just a forum-muppet's typical whine. Originally by: Zyxlo Are you stupid? Gallente ships are worse than Amarr after the stupid HP boost. ... orly?
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:01:00 - [87] I bet MWD is pretty fine as it is now... MWD allows you to do a lot of things and people love them despite the penalties... OMG I could tank very well if I hadn't had the MWD fitted. a MWD ship has to sacrifice 25% capacitor to have it fitted - that's a huge penalty to your tank... but it allows you to close to a target fast (to tackle and use your high damage weapons) while also get away from bubbles and outmaneuvre ships in same class. Few ships are meant to use MWD and they get the reduced penalty - these ships might not win Eve but sure they got a good advantage... Thorax isn't the most solid ship but OMG it has nice damage and it can close the range very fast... sure cap is an issue but you can't have OMGBBQ without penalties. with the new HP boost tank has been favored over gank, so you'll have to adapt... If you need capacitor, just improve your fitting. If you don't like the module use another ship/fitting/module. Pinky
SonicCJK	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:32:00 - [88] Originally by: Verus Potestas Edited by: Verus Potestas on 04/12/2006 17:43:17 Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: turnschuh sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm Is this the situation where gallente blasterships outdamage the minmatar ACs everywhere inside scramble range? Yeah, I know it Not really, just did more dps on megathron than he did on my hurricane but unfortanetly it was midst of fleet battle so sadly i died before i could pop it and ofc NOS ftw, I mwding on hurricane and 2x med nos is fine enough for me along with cap booster ofc, cap booster are matter of difference for MWD pilot like me.
SonicCJK	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:39:00 - [89] go learn lvl 5 energy management skill......at least it neut the MWD cap penalty...
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:43:00 - [90] omg is this thread STILL going on??? MWDs have penalties for real reasons. That reason is they make you go so friggin fast its crazy. They are already standard equipment on EVERY ship I fly. If you dont like the penalty, use AB. Whats that you say, thats not fast enough for you? Then take the tradeoff to get the extra speed. You are not the only one with this problem you know. My Zealot with conflag does less damage then blasters on a diemos, but I still have well less then a 10km range. This means MWD!!!! and look, you get a bonus to MWD cap penalty. whats that, it only gets you back up to 93.75% of original capacitor capacity? Im still at 75%. Suck it up. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us



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