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wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
   |
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:05:00 -
[1]
Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 04/12/2006 17:12:25
remove cap penalty from mwd !
but still keep mwd bonuses on ships like rax, vigilant, etc
everyone know why we need this
so plz just do it 
♥ Exekias |
Lilani Kuzma
Gallente
Brass Monkeys Society
The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:06:00 -
[2]
SIGNED
|
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:07:00 -
[3]
Signed.
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Va'n
British Industrialist and Transportation Services
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:10:00 -
[4]
Signed
|
Lilani Kuzma
Gallente
Brass Monkeys Society
The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:11:00 -
[5]
change the title! let people know of our intentions!! with this new hp boost and all all blasters ships and stuff need this badly!!! POWER TO THE GALENTE!! resigned
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.04 17:15:00 -
[6]
No, don't keep the MWD bonus, instead replace it with a bonus to MWD cap usage.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:17:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
No, don't keep the MWD bonus, instead replace it with a bonus to MWD cap usage.
yes keep them
its makes some ships more unique and more fun to fly
and in time like this when nos is a king of the hill we need those changes badly
♥ Exekias |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/12/2006 17:19:59
You know what I'd also like to see ? A reduction to half of current levels in sigradius penality on MWDing ships.
I mean, a NON-MWDing ship of same "base" transversal and same distance is LESS likely to get hit than a ship that didn't reach max MWD speed yet, and an ABing ship is half as likely to get hit as a non-MWDing, non-ABing ship of same "base" transverse.
That, or also put a sigradius penality of +100% on ABs :)
On top of it all, the "blasterships" with -5% penality to maxcap should get +5% to MWD thrust instead (and cut the MWD -25% maxcap penality).
_____
-sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Dark Shikari
No, don't keep the MWD bonus, instead replace it with a bonus to MWD cap usage.
yes keep them
its makes some ships more unique and more fun to fly
and in time like this when nos is a king of the hill we need those changes badly
But if there's no MWD cap penalty, a bonus to MWD cap penalty won't do anything 
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:24:00 -
[10]
Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 04/12/2006 17:24:40
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Dark Shikari
No, don't keep the MWD bonus, instead replace it with a bonus to MWD cap usage.
yes keep them
its makes some ships more unique and more fun to fly
and in time like this when nos is a king of the hill we need those changes badly
But if there's no MWD cap penalty, a bonus to MWD cap penalty won't do anything
ohh wait i get that now :) :P
edit: have to agree with that :)
♥ Exekias |
Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:25:00 -
[11]
Eh? so you want a +25% cap bonus when you fit a MWD on your rax? LOL.
But yeah, they need some sort of boost. Either decrease their cap usage by like, 20% or change the penalty into a recharge rate one.
Basilisk Fitting Link |
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:26:00 -
[12]
YES! lets make MWDs a must-fit module, like cap injectors and NOS... such a great idea.
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turnschuh
Eye of God
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:30:00 -
[13]
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more 
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Brother Todd
YES! lets make MWDs a must-fit module, like cap injectors and NOS... such a great idea.
Only on gallente...
Basilisk Fitting Link |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm
♥ Exekias |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Brother Todd
YES! lets make MWDs a must-fit module, like cap injectors and NOS... such a great idea.
maybe i am wrong but on most short range ships mwd are must-fit modules ? and why we need cap injectors ? cos with mwd there is no other alternative to keep our cap then using them ...
♥ Exekias |
Lancer Hawk
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:36:00 -
[17]
FIX MWD
remove -25% cap penalty
add - 25% turret tracking when microwarp drive is active.
add - 25% turret optimal when MWD active
add - 25% turret falloff when MWD active
add - 25% turret ROF when MWD is active
add - 50% missile/rokets etc ROF when MWD is active
add - 50% nos/nutz effetivness when MWD is active
change +500 sig when MWD is active to +100 sig when microwarpdrive is active
with thses changes the only reasoj to fit a MWD is for speed. during that time all weapons ETC ETC effects are greatly redusced as most of the ships energygrid/cap/cpu is focused in keeping a microwarp bubble active. however when the MWD is deactivated all thses systems come back online.
it also means you dont have snipers with a MWD to keep away from enemys. and to do primarly what its ment to be used for. getting up close to the enemy with your short ranged weapons.
i dunno.. just my bit
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wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lancer Hawk
change +500 sig when MWD is active to +100 sig when microwarpdrive is active
drugs are bad mkay ?
♥ Exekias |
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:42:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Brother Todd on 04/12/2006 17:43:57
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Brother Todd
YES! lets make MWDs a must-fit module, like cap injectors and NOS... such a great idea.
maybe i am wrong but on most short range ships mwd are must-fit modules ? and why we need cap injectors ? cos with mwd there is no other alternative to keep our cap then using them ...
No, you need cap injectors because with nos in it's current state there is no other alternative (and the fact that cap recharger's are useless in pvp).
And the fact that MWDs are a must-fit module doesn't mean they need a boost... if anything it's the opposite.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Verus Potestas on 04/12/2006 17:43:17
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm
Is this the situation where gallente blasterships outdamage the minmatar ACs everywhere inside scramble range?
Yeah, I know it 
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Brother Todd
YES! lets make MWDs a must-fit module, like cap injectors and NOS... such a great idea.
maybe i am wrong but on most short range ships mwd are must-fit modules ? and why we need cap injectors ? cos with mwd there is no other alternative to keep our cap then using them ...
No, you need cap injectors because with nos there is no other alternative (and the fact that cap recharger's are useless in pvp).
And the fact that MWDs are a must-fit module doesn't mean they need a boost... if anything it's the opposite.
no u need cap injectors to keep your gunz going
i know that cap rechargers are useless in pvp but maybe its time to change this ?
♥ Exekias |
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Brother Todd
YES! lets make MWDs a must-fit module, like cap injectors and NOS... such a great idea.
maybe i am wrong but on most short range ships mwd are must-fit modules ? and why we need cap injectors ? cos with mwd there is no other alternative to keep our cap then using them ...
No, you need cap injectors because with nos there is no other alternative (and the fact that cap recharger's are useless in pvp).
And the fact that MWDs are a must-fit module doesn't mean they need a boost... if anything it's the opposite.
no u need cap injectors to keep your gunz going
i know that cap rechargers are useless in pvp but maybe its time to change this ?
Now there is a good idea.
|
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Edited by: Verus Potestas on 04/12/2006 17:43:17
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm
Is this the situation where gallente blasterships outdamage the minmatar ACs everywhere inside scramble range?
Yeah, I know it
sure
looks like u are da BIG pro here
♥ Exekias |
Bellatrix VanFeldt
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:48:00 -
[24]
I support removing the cap penalty. As I understand it this was a nerf intended to combat multiple MWDs at the same time and is no longer needed now that we can only mount one. The fitting costs are high enough already.
Ships with a MWD bonus should be changed to +7.5% duration/level or -5% cap/level.
Bella
|
Moominer
InterGalactic Corp.
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:49:00 -
[25]
wtb tech2 moderator with +25% thread pwning
Eve Fitting Manager
|
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Edited by: Verus Potestas on 04/12/2006 17:43:17
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm
Is this the situation where gallente blasterships outdamage the minmatar ACs everywhere inside scramble range?
Yeah, I know it
sure
looks like u are da BIG pro here
I've never understood why minmatar AC boats are always singled out as blaster-victims. Blasters pwn everything inside scramble range. The only ship that can give them a run for their money is a well tanked raven.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
|
Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:51:00 -
[27]
Power to the Afterburners.
I think mwds need a rework...back into the travel mod they were intended to be. Give them same penalties (active or not) as WCS have now plus their cap/sig penalty.
Give bonuses to Blasterboats Incursus, Thorax, Brutix, and Megathron (I refuse to call the Hype a blastership :p) bonuses to +30% AB Effectiveness per level (Additive to Acceleration Control, not multiplicative).
AB = combat speed mod
MWD = travel convenience mod (not that WTZ gives a reason to have it anymore, cept for bubble runs)
Now double all Minmatar ship base speeds and reduce all mass by 20%.
~Thor Xian, Material Administrator
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:52:00 -
[28]
if MWD has not penalty, why would you ever fit an afterburner?
thread over.
Originally by: Tuxford
Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us 
|
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
if MWD has not penalty, why would you ever fit an afterburner?
thread over.
Pretty much agree with you here. If the problem with the MWD cap penalty is that NOS dominates pvp as sir noobhunter pointed out then I'd just suggest nerfing nos (can of worms has been opened).
|
Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Thor Xian
Power to the Afterburners.
I think mwds need a rework...back into the travel mod they were intended to be. Give them same penalties (active or not) as WCS have now plus their cap/sig penalty.
Give bonuses to Blasterboats Incursus, Thorax, Brutix, and Megathron (I refuse to call the Hype a blastership :p) bonuses to +30% AB Effectiveness per level (Additive to Acceleration Control, not multiplicative).
AB = combat speed mod
MWD = travel convenience mod (not that WTZ gives a reason to have it anymore, cept for bubble runs)
Now double all Minmatar ship base speeds and reduce all mass by 20%.
mwd traveling mod ? not any more wellcome to jump to 0
I'd call anyone not 'traveling' with an mwd either ballsy or stupid. In 0.0 anyway, bubbles still work, mwds help get past them.
~Thor Xian, Material Administrator
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Edited by: Verus Potestas on 04/12/2006 17:43:17
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm
Is this the situation where gallente blasterships outdamage the minmatar ACs everywhere inside scramble range?
Yeah, I know it
sure
looks like u are da BIG pro here
I've never understood why minmatar AC boats are always singled out as blaster-victims. Blasters pwn everything inside scramble range. The only ship that can give them a run for their money is a well tanked raven.
point is not that mega > tempest
point is that with all those tanking changes all turret based ships having hard time now
and that we need to do somethink to change this
♥ Exekias |
Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:58:00 -
[32]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
if MWD has not penalty, why would you ever fit an afterburner?
thread over.
ehm huge cap use ?
sig increase ?
I think his point is that people already fit mwds before anything else, even with the penalties it is the default module on most ships that aren't long range setup. So your idea would just make ABs that much less worth having.
~Thor Xian, Material Administrator
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:00:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
if MWD has not penalty, why would you ever fit an afterburner?
thread over.
Pretty much agree with you here. If the problem with the MWD cap penalty is that NOS dominates pvp as sir noobhunter pointed out then I'd just suggest nerfing nos (can of worms has been opened).
and how i gona get in my 1k optimal with afterburner ?
♥ Exekias |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:04:00 -
[34]
Personally I just see the need for two changes, both skill based:
- High Speed Maneuvering changed from 5% to a 10% MWD cap use bonus--which would happen to bring it in line with Fuel Conservation's AB bonus.
- New Navigation skill, Microwarp Piloting. Rank 5 probably. 3-5% Agility bonus to ship while MWD is active. (Kinda seems like these two skills should have their names switched.)
Most other ideas I don't like so much. MWDs are already incredibly powerful, people are just blinded by the disadvantages. Also any reduction in sig radius or cap penalty is going to be an enormous benefit to Intys--and they don't need it.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
if MWD has not penalty, why would you ever fit an afterburner?
thread over.
ehm huge cap use ?
sig increase ?
MWDs are pretty much a required pvp mod at this point, despite the current penalties. when was the last time you saw an interceptor without a mwd? The only time I maybe DONT fit a MWD is if im in a sniper BS as part of a huge fleet...and even then a mwd is very useful for getting to sniper position quickly without warping off and getting out of bubbles.
A lowslot mod/rig to reduce the cap penalty would be interesting. a huge buff to mwd is not needed.
Originally by: Tuxford
Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
|
Templer Relleg
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:06:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 04/12/2006 18:08:10
I would like that.
It would pimp my claw even more! 
Yet i dont see the big need, for it. Its hardly a must, on any ships, but frigates, and the thorax, and some cruisers.
Its stupid to fit it on a Battleship, but the nanodomi!
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
if MWD has not penalty, why would you ever fit an afterburner?
thread over.
Pretty much agree with you here. If the problem with the MWD cap penalty is that NOS dominates pvp as sir noobhunter pointed out then I'd just suggest nerfing nos (can of worms has been opened).
and how i gona get in my 1k optimal with afterburner ?
You fight in 1km optimal? 
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:16:00 -
[38]
don't get me wrong guys
its last desperate attempt to save solo pvp those changes wont
effect group pvp that much its just way to save poor dieing blaster mega pilots 
♥ Exekias |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
if MWD has not penalty, why would you ever fit an afterburner?
thread over.
Pretty much agree with you here. If the problem with the MWD cap penalty is that NOS dominates pvp as sir noobhunter pointed out then I'd just suggest nerfing nos (can of worms has been opened).
and how i gona get in my 1k optimal with afterburner ?
You fight in 1km optimal?
1k = 1000
♥ Exekias |
xeom
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm
Yea his mega can't solopwn everything anymore ='((((
---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
|
Max Hardcase
Art of War
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:45:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 04/12/2006 18:47:22
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 04/12/2006 18:47:10
You could argue either way for the cap penalty.
Its true that one of the reasons ( multi mwd) has been removed and the sig penalty can be quite dangerous ( missiles exp radius effects, turret tracking etc ) but the fact remains that the MWD still provides hefty tactical mobility benefits.
I could see a smaller cap penalty for MWD's (somewhere in the 10% range) or an increased bonus of the cap use reducing skill for MWD's as decent "fix".
Thorax MWD cap bonus changed to :
a bonus to High speed maneuvering skill (7.5%/lvl) and MWD mass reduction(20%/lvl).
On a side note, I do think that Afterburner Max speed bonus is a tad low for the fitting.
200% seems a much nicer base figure.
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Venkhar Krard
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:48:00 -
[42]
I use mwd every day in pvp. Its very powerful and the penalty is ok. We dont need another I-Win mod.
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Phoenix Jones
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:57:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Phoenix Jones on 04/12/2006 18:59:17
I disagree. Keep the Penalty on the module, else all ships will equip em.
What I would suggest though, is to select a few ships and make their training attribute Negate the MWD penalties..
For instance, On a Thorax, each level of cruiser you attain reduces the negative cap penalty by 20%, and reduces the sig penalty by 80%. This increases every level.
Thorax Level 1 (+20% to capacitor capacity when MWD equipped, -80% signature radius)
Thorax Level 2 (+40% to capacitor capacity when MWD equipped, -160% signature radius)
Thorax Level 3 (+60% to capacitor capacity when MWD equipped, -240% signature radius)
Thorax Level 4 (+80% to capacitor capacity when MWD equipped, -320% signature radius)
Thorax Level 5 (+100% to capacitor capacity when MWD equipped, -400% signature radius)
So basically, once you get Cruiser 5, the Thorax no longer gets any "Negative to Cap" penalty when they equip a MWD, and the signature boost from the MWD module is reduced down to a 100% boost, instead of the 500% it is now.
I'd probably do the same for the Brutix and the Hyperion (which needs something like this desparately). The close range amarr, caldari and minmatar ships should get similar bonuses.
---------------The Low Sec Issue-------------
Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP. |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:59:00 -
[44]
so plz explain me why mwd are overpowered ?
i am WIERCHAS i am like UBER and stuff |
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:04:00 -
[45]
no, don't drop cap penalty. It has one right now and yet people still fit mwd, must mean the mod is desired despite the penalty to cap. (Yeah this is already mentioned in thread, i'm just emphasizing.)
Crystal-Slave, that way?
Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug |
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
so plz explain me why mwd are overpowered ?
They don't need a nerf, but they don't need a boost either.
Crystal-Slave, that way?
Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug |
kublai
Short Attention Span
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:59:00 -
[47]
I'm sorry i'm abit slow here but, when did they take away 90% of our capacitor usage?
Or is it just that all the whiners with little or no talent for a half brained ship setup came out to jump the nerf-us band wagon?
Nos is fine.
Mwd's are fine.
All is well in the kingdom of denmark.
And yes, Kublai flies gallente, I am a thorax GOD and I own a vigilant.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:04:00 -
[48]
I support this post.
The cap penalty was implemented to stop ppl from using multiple mwds at the same time.
If memory serves me correctly you could overfit em better back then too.
You can no longer fit 4 100MN MWDs in a cruiser anymore, so the purpose of the cap penalty is long gone.
As such it should be abolished as redundant and the ships that get MWD should get a mass reduction bonus when using MWD to keep em the best MWD ships...
Flame on!
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: kublai
And yes, Kublai flies gallente, I am a thorax GOD and I own a vigilant.
Kinda sounds like you fly amarr
Originally by: kublai
They have serious cap issues and some ships do have utterly **** tracking, but every race has its disadvantages, and if you're willing to work on the bad things..well my harbinger tore 17k shields off a ferox in seconds that ship makes me wet myself, i'm spending a few hundred mill on my new pilgrim, just because I love it and wanto baby it!
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kublai
Short Attention Span
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:24:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: kublai
And yes, Kublai flies gallente, I am a thorax GOD and I own a vigilant.
Kinda sounds like you fly amarr
Originally by: kublai
They have serious cap issues and some ships do have utterly **** tracking, but every race has its disadvantages, and if you're willing to work on the bad things..well my harbinger tore 17k shields off a ferox in seconds that ship makes me wet myself, i'm spending a few hundred mill on my new pilgrim, just because I love it and wanto baby it!
I have two characters, a 25m sp amarr and kublai who's 18m sp gallente (and caldari ceptor).
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
AnarkiTheStorm
Tender Loving Care
Muffins of Mayhem
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:26:00 -
[51]
I will also settle for blasters taking no cap to fire and having a better acceleration with plates.
---
Rararar.... |
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: kublai
I have two characters, a 25m sp amarr and kublai who's 18m sp gallente (and caldari ceptor).
sure pal
|
kublai
Short Attention Span
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:33:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: kublai
I have two characters, a 25m sp amarr and kublai who's 18m sp gallente (and caldari ceptor).
sure pal
Jonny 101 and Kublai, eve-mail me anytime.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 20:36:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: kublai
I have two characters, a 25m sp amarr and kublai who's 18m sp gallente (and caldari ceptor).
sure pal
Well, a quick visit to google seems to confirm that
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:40:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: kublai
I have two characters, a 25m sp amarr and kublai who's 18m sp gallente (and caldari ceptor).
sure pal
Well, a quick visit to google seems to confirm that
Logic and reason has never persuaded me... and never will!
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Durethia
Nubs.
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:42:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Durethia on 04/12/2006 21:45:02
Originally by: Akita T
On top of it all, the "blasterships" with -5% penality to maxcap should get +5% to MWD thrust instead (and cut the MWD -25% maxcap penality).
signed
I think it should be +10% to MWD thrust for blaster ships, and NO sig radius penalty.
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Lilani Kuzma
Gallente
Brass Monkeys Society
The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:53:00 -
[57]
ohh yeahh
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BlackMoon Thrawn
the Organ Grinder and Company
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:07:00 -
[58]
No thanks, I'm kinda fine with gank megas not being fotm for awhile.
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Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:31:00 -
[59]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Dark Shikari
No, don't keep the MWD bonus, instead replace it with a bonus to MWD cap usage.
yes keep them
its makes some ships more unique and more fun to fly
and in time like this when nos is a king of the hill we need those changes badly
Um, no.
If the cap penalty is removed, the current MWD cap penalty reduction bonus becomes 100% useless.
It would be nice to replace it with an MWD/afterburner speed bonus if the cap penalty is removed. *IT MUST APPLY TO AFTERBURNERS* or the ships also need a special role ability allowing them to use MWD in deadspace.
------------
Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Calista Industries |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
The Corporation Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:39:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Ithildin on 04/12/2006 22:39:34
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Dark Shikari
No, don't keep the MWD bonus, instead replace it with a bonus to MWD cap usage.
yes keep them
its makes some ships more unique and more fun to fly
and in time like this when nos is a king of the hill we need those changes badly
But if there's no MWD cap penalty, a bonus to MWD cap penalty won't do anything
Yes, it will.
CCP is basically lying when they say "5% reduction in MWD capacitor capacity reduction" or whatever.
What it actually DOES is "+5% capacitor capacity when MWD is fitted". So at level 5 you get (100% + 25%) - 25% = 100%*1.25*0.75 = 93.75%
But then again, the MWD penalty was introduced because MWDs without the penalty were silly beyond reason. I was there at the end of MWD non-nerfed time, and it was insane.
What I think is needed for the MWD bonused ships is a true 20% reduction in MWD penalties. In other words, at level 5 no capacitor capacity nerf and no signature nerf.
The ships* with these bonuses aren't exactly terrific at the moment.
* Meaning the non-faction ships, of course!
-
EVE is sick. |
mallina
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:00:00 -
[61]
no, no and no
MWD and blasterships recieved a BOOST because of the HP and Cap increase/Cap booster size decrease (which many seem to have forgetton about) yet here are all the whiners complaining that Rev. somehow nerfed them.
The cap boost along with HP boost means that:
Cap has no more effect on combat than it did before
and
NOS has no more effect on combat than it did before
..but..
Because of the HP boost, the time taken to get to your target will be less significant. the MWD boost required to get to your target will also be less significant.
..meaning
MWDing Blasterw***es have it easier than they did before.
and then you have the new BCs which can use a 10mn MWD for practically forever now.
so no, i dont think removing the cap penalty on MWDs is a good idea. As they are, they are balanced. IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead.
-----------
Turbulance |
Durethia
Nubs.
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 00:56:00 -
[62]
Originally by: mallina
no, no and no
MWD and blasterships recieved a BOOST because of the HP and Cap increase/Cap booster size decrease (which many seem to have forgetton about) yet here are all the whiners complaining that Rev. somehow nerfed them.
The cap boost along with HP boost means that:
Cap has no more effect on combat than it did before
and
NOS has no more effect on combat than it did before
..but..
Because of the HP boost, the time taken to get to your target will be less significant. the MWD boost required to get to your target will also be less significant.
..meaning
MWDing Blasterw***es have it easier than they did before.
and then you have the new BCs which can use a 10mn MWD for practically forever now.
so no, i dont think removing the cap penalty on MWDs is a good idea. As they are, they are balanced. IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead.
Oh my god. It's a Caldari pilot....
OK. Here's the deal. MWDs were severely nerfed a while back because people abused them. Putting two or three MWDs on a hauler... it IS the reason they have crazy fitting requirements.
1) MWDs should NOT require that much more Power Grid than an After Burner. The ONLY reason why they have crazy powergrid requirements is to make it impossible for haulers to fit more than one. They fixed this so that no ship could fit more than one AB or MWD, so why they kept the powergrid requirement is beyond me.
2) Also, because the MWD stacking... many ships were impossible to hit, even with webbers. So, the sig radius boost across the board (in disregard to blaster boats, which all of them have relatively large sig radius to start off with). Think an Interceptor with two MWDs....
Also the cap penalties... it was all put in place due to people abusing a system which they long fixed. Now, you have ships (Like the Thorax/Deimos/Daredevil) that are advertised with a MWD bonus, but they do NOT HAVE AN MWD BONUS. The Deimos has ONE LESS EFFECTIVE BONUS THAN ALL OTHER HACs! Might be one of the reasons people do not like the Deimos.
1) The Capacitor penalty needs to be removed for all ships. Caldari, Amarr all of us.
2) Ships currently with "MWD" bonuses, need to have a new Navigation bonus, like 10% bonus the MWD thrust, or 20% bonus to base speed of ship... or, 50% bonus to ship agility.
3) The powergrid requirements for MWD should drop maybe 60% or more; still more than an AB, but nowhere near what it is now.
4) The signature radius penalties should only apply to Frigates (Interceptors, AFs et al).
|
mallina
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 01:33:00 -
[63]
to sum your post up...
make MWDs the same as ABs, but with 600% speed boost, thus making ABs obselete except for running plexes?
if MWDs were as bad as you made out, people wouldnt use them anywhere near as much as they do. They think the incredible speed boost is worth the penalties and thus will fit one.
as for the MWD bonus being useless: i beg to differ :/ its no worse than the Cap amount bonus on the Apoc, only forces you to fit an MWD to get it - which being essential for a lot of PVP, isnt really that much of a problem
-----------
Turbulance |
Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 03:28:00 -
[64]
Originally by: mallina
to sum your post up...
make MWDs the same as ABs, but with 600% speed boost, thus making ABs obselete except for running plexes?
if MWDs were as bad as you made out, people wouldnt use them anywhere near as much as they do. They think the incredible speed boost is worth the penalties and thus will fit one.
as for the MWD bonus being useless: i beg to differ :/ its no worse than the Cap amount bonus on the Apoc, only forces you to fit an MWD to get it - which being essential for a lot of PVP, isnt really that much of a problem
MWDs used to have lower (and/or similar) fitting requirements but no penalties, people used ABs instead on many setups for two reasons:
a) There are two cap reduction skills for afterburners (one to increase duration, one to decrease cap). Only one for MWD, and if I recall correctly, it doesn't improve as much per level. (I'm not logged in at the moment.)
b) Even with equivalent skills, MWDs are major cap hogs.
------------
Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Calista Industries |
Durethia
Nubs.
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 03:43:00 -
[65]
Originally by: mallina
to sum your post up...
make MWDs the same as ABs, but with 600% speed boost, thus making ABs obselete except for running plexes?
ABs wouldn't become obsolete. They are used for complexes, and on ship fits that can't add a MWD because of hungry fitting requirements. The pilot has yet to train the necessary skills to fit an MWD, so they're only option is an AB.
ABs will still be used for the above reasons, even if MWD fitting requirements were reduced.
|
mallina
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 04:16:00 -
[66]
so what, ABs are just for the noobs and missionrunners?..
the fact is an MWD gives you a HUGE advantage in PVP in near enough any situation. For that advantage, people need to sacrifice something important, like at current - Cap Amount (which is compensated easily enough with Cap Boosters) and the PG requirements which may equal the same as a single low tier gun, which is nothing - considering the benefits.
the LAST thing we need is more people flying around in unbeatable MWDing Nano setups. removing cap penalty on MWD WILL turn it into a must-have module for every ship that isnt Caldari.
-----------
Turbulance |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 04:33:00 -
[67]
lol at this thread.
so... due to the shortcomings of a couple ships (or in this case, perhaps the pilots themselves) we are going to alter a mod so drastically that another would become completely obsolete and ANY non sniper/missile boat would LIKELY have to fit MWD in combat to remain competative.
MWD does not = AB x10 for a good reason.
just silly....
|
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 12:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: mallina
so what, ABs are just for the noobs and missionrunners?..
the fact is an MWD gives you a HUGE advantage in PVP in near enough any situation. For that advantage, people need to sacrifice something important, like at current - Cap Amount (which is compensated easily enough with Cap Boosters) and the PG requirements which may equal the same as a single low tier gun, which is nothing - considering the benefits.
the LAST thing we need is more people flying around in unbeatable MWDing Nano setups. removing cap penalty on MWD WILL turn it into a must-have module for every ship that isnt Caldari.
No.
Ppl don't fit MWDs because of the cap penalty. Rather because their setup doesn't need it. And they don't have a mid slot to waste for it. And because it has insane fitting requirements.
Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it?
I didn't think so either.
The penalties on the MWD are an unneeded relic, and should be removed.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Kazaam
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 12:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Thor Xian
Power to the Afterburners.
I think mwds need a rework...back into the travel mod they were intended to be. Give them same penalties (active or not) as WCS have now plus their cap/sig penalty.
Give bonuses to Blasterboats Incursus, Thorax, Brutix, and Megathron (I refuse to call the Hype a blastership :p) bonuses to +30% AB Effectiveness per level (Additive to Acceleration Control, not multiplicative).
AB = combat speed mod
MWD = travel convenience mod (not that WTZ gives a reason to have it anymore, cept for bubble runs)
Now double all Minmatar ship base speeds and reduce all mass by 20%.
You've just killed the Interceptors ship class.
_________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
EVE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEAAATHHH !!
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 13:15:00 -
[70]
Edited by: James Duar on 05/12/2006 13:16:58
Originally by: Laboratus
Originally by: mallina
so what, ABs are just for the noobs and missionrunners?..
the fact is an MWD gives you a HUGE advantage in PVP in near enough any situation. For that advantage, people need to sacrifice something important, like at current - Cap Amount (which is compensated easily enough with Cap Boosters) and the PG requirements which may equal the same as a single low tier gun, which is nothing - considering the benefits.
the LAST thing we need is more people flying around in unbeatable MWDing Nano setups. removing cap penalty on MWD WILL turn it into a must-have module for every ship that isnt Caldari.
No.
Ppl don't fit MWDs because of the cap penalty. Rather because their setup doesn't need it. And they don't have a mid slot to waste for it. And because it has insane fitting requirements.
Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it?
I didn't think so either.
The penalties on the MWD are an unneeded relic, and should be removed.
I don't get it. Does the sig radius penalty not exist in some people's EVE or what? As it stands, not only am I burning cap like no tomorrow, but I also lose total cap on my rax and form a battleship sized target.
EDIT: Sorry this wasn't really directed at you either.
|
Great Artista
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 13:27:00 -
[71]
For the sake of balance, I have to say that this is a stupid idea. Nothing is actually broke with MWD, they are meant to be used in bursts, sudden speed increase.
What they should NOT be are super AB's.
___________________________________
And I make lots of money, I make more money than you
I drive around in my limo, that's what I was born to do
And I might like you better if we ****** together.
|
Devon Manticore
Minmatar
Manticore Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 13:49:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
so plz explain me why mwd are overpowered ?
They don't need a nerf, but they don't need a boost either.
What he said.
Wheres my damn portrait! |
Show Stopper
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 14:54:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Show Stopper on 05/12/2006 14:55:12
Stupid Alt...
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Zyxlo
Gallente
Gravis Corp
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 14:56:00 -
[74]
Well Caldari ships were the reson for mwd nerf and then unnerf to some degree. How? well it was long time ago. Dual mwd torp ravens with sensor damps anyone? or 4 mwd scorps? Now those were deadly and uncounterable. Sadly none of the Gallente ships have enough grid to fit more then 1 mwd (even with out of the box setups).
Nerf hit blasterboats the most, remember-> blasters=close range, close range=below 5km.
It used to give %25 penalty to capacitor capacity and shield amount. But, shield penalty? omg Caldari use shields!!!It got removed.. But since they don't use cap like Amarr or Gallente who cares about the cap nerf. Amarr and mwd? well yeah upto a degree as ab is,erm, not upto it?
MWD is a must to gallente line of ships except when rails fitted and some ships are better with rails to do some tasks. But pvp cals for below 20km engagements. Gallente ships are more fit to be solo ships by design. ALmost every close range ship uses a MWD,webber,scrambler. If they got 4 mids, put in the cap injector. A Rax with ions has to fight below 3km with AM, mega 5km or so. In order to hit your opponent you've got to get into that range, slow down enough to get your blasters hitting and hope that you are not into deep armor by the time you get there.
If the pilot were using a Caldari boat, easy, sit standing still, lock the mwd'in ships that is coming towards you whih has the sig radius of a moon and spam missiles of your choice. Full dmg till Gal pilot deactivates his mwd.
If Amarr, repeat the sequence, except get excellent and wreckings with lasers. Minnie? mix the two.
Jam the opponent? sure. I'll use 5 med or 5 heavy jammers on the opponent but since the opponent will be locking me faster than i do with mwd on, and having more mid slots or same drone bay makes the point moot.
Drive a Domi? yeah, just fyi some of us like domi and nos+ecm settings and it is still deadly. But is just that. Nothing more. Reason for it? Domi doesn't have enough grid to fit weapons of mass destruction and this setup is a cookie cutter.
And the unnerf to mwd would benefit other races more than it does to Gallente. Every mission runner's Raven almost have one, some of the fleet ships have one fitted. It is a must for every ceptor.
SO just because you think Gallente will benefit from it you say nay. If it was Caldari would you oppose or would you be the one of the posters going /signed in a thread as long as my arm? This game is better of getting renamed Caldari Online-Jita Chronicles
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Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 15:04:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Zyxlo
And the unnerf to mwd would benefit other races more than it does to Gallente. Every mission runner's Raven almost have one, some of the fleet ships have one fitted. It is a must for every ceptor.
SO just because you think Gallente will benefit from it you say nay. If it was Caldari would you oppose or would you be the one of the posters going /signed in a thread as long as my arm? This game is better of getting renamed Caldari Online-Jita Chronicles
Every mission raven has a MWD? MWDs don't work in deadspace you idiot. And Gallente will be benefiting most from this change as Amarr ships lack cpu to fit MWDs and minmatar ships aren't as cap dependent.
BTW: Gallente are much better off than Caldari and have been for a while, so don't go spewing that 'Caldari online' crap.
|
Zyxlo
Gallente
Gravis Corp
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 15:14:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:17:43
Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:16:51
I hate these boards. Stupid double post
|
Zyxlo
Gallente
Gravis Corp
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 15:16:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:22:05
I hate these boards anyway. Have to type in for the 5th time.
For short, not every 'encounter' classed as deadspace. I'd give up missile launchers on my mega to have the mwd penalties removed but that is just me.
And please keep the language on par with whom you reply to.
Last. This game favors Caldari by all means. Other races get some abilities by some out of the box, cookie cutter setups that CCP haven't though about.
|
mallina
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 15:37:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Laboratus
Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it?
I didn't think so either.
Actually, I would
MWD Zealot. MWD Pilgrim. MWD Geddon
MWD Nanoraven.
MWDs on Capitals.
-----------
Turbulance |
Jeanpierre Duvall
Caldari
Spectral Armada
Eternal Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 15:47:00 -
[79]
I would really like a Critical failur change to the MWD. So that it explodes on activation and leave you with 10% hull. Oh.. Only every 3 times out of 5 tho.
Naa.. Seriously. MWD is good as it is. But maybe a slight boost to cap for the Rax and Mega. Or a reduce in cap use for Blasters.
|
Spike 68
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 16:14:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Spike 68 on 05/12/2006 16:15:38
Originally by: mallina
IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead.
I think that just about nails it there. More speed boost more penalty, it makes sense to me. Also, they are indeed used as a quick burst. Anyone who leaves the mwd on in larger ships will soon see they made a mistake. When their cap is gone and their sig makes them the size of a moon.
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DefJam101
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 16:21:00 -
[81]
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
Are you stupid? Gallente ships are worse than Amarr after the stupid HP boost.
***
|
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
In Excess Enterprises
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 16:29:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Zyxlo
Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:22:05
This game favors Caldari by all means. Other races get some abilities by some out of the box, cookie cutter setups that CCP haven't though about.
QFT.
I'd settle for the mwd skill changing to a simple duration one just like the ab skill tbh, gives me more time to close in so I don't need the thing for a second cycle. But You can't tell me that mwd isn't killing the hell out of the Mega (and Hype) with the new Faction sized HP on all ships. I haven't seen a Mega win a fight in days. And I just watched a NOS Domi wtfpwn the crap out of a hype yesterday.
---------
Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE. |
DefJam101
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 16:31:00 -
[83]
Originally by: mallina
no, no and no
MWD and blasterships recieved a BOOST because of the HP and Cap increase/Cap booster size decrease (which many seem to have forgetton about) yet here are all the whiners complaining that Rev. somehow nerfed them.
The cap boost along with HP boost means that:
Cap has no more effect on combat than it did before
and
NOS has no more effect on combat than it did before
..but..
Because of the HP boost, the time taken to get to your target will be less significant. the MWD boost required to get to your target will also be less significant.
..meaning
MWDing Blasterw***es have it easier than they did before.
and then you have the new BCs which can use a 10mn MWD for practically forever now.
so no, i dont think removing the cap penalty on MWDs is a good idea. As they are, they are balanced. IF you dont like the cap penalty, fit an AB instead.
This is the most 100% ill-gotten information I have ever seen. The HP boost means for DPS blaster boats...
A) It now takes 2 times as long to kill you, which encourages blob PvP
B) NOS now totally RUINS T1 PvP in it's entirety (Unless your Minmatarr/Caldari), since it's so horrendously overpowered.
C) It's even worse when you use a MWD since by the time you even GET to your opponent, OVER HALF of your entire capacitor WILL most likely be gone. THats just to get in range, then you have to take 2 times as long to kill the person, all while being NOS'd.
MWD Blasterboats SUCK atm
All T1 ships without NOS suck now as well, although not as much
***
|
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolance
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 16:34:00 -
[84]
As a gallente pilote i can say, all of these proposed changes suck.
nos = teh evil, what we gonna do?
no you silly not nerf nos, lets boost mwd! I see the ammar way of thinking has sneaked in.
He! we are suffering from high em resists, what we gonna do. Yes give explosive crystals and swap em/therm around. How do you mean nerf omnitanks?
Really bad way of thinking. If something is bad dont change something else because of it. Thorax does its job fine, so does the mega. There is no problem.
_________________________________________________
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Daelin Blackleaf
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 16:37:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/12/2006 16:50:01
The issue isn't really the MWD, it's the combat style.
CCP have decreed that combat will be lengthened, therefore any setup that relied upon doing rapid damage to "gank" the opponent will now fail due to the increased need of a tank and capacitor in revelations.
The problem here is that some ships seem designed for such tactics, and now they're screwed. You arrive in range for a fight with little cap, possibly less armor with ten mins plus of combat to look forward to using your cap eating weapons and very little tank.
The quick answers are don't fit MWD, but an afterburner leaves most floating under fire for longer than the increased damage can make up for on arrival. Or fit a tank, which leaves rail ships with more DPS (magstabs).
I DON'T think Gallente ships should be the I-Win Button, but I do feel this way of combat has been quite effectively killed and because it is primarily a Gallente style it's going to be seen as a Gallente problem.
[EDIT: I will add that the Hyperion suffers less due to its inherent tanking bonus, but I've yet to truly test this ship out. Does this mean that the Mega is relegated to rail duty... probably. But the other "gank" designed ships (even those that dont operate in the 1-6km range) have suffered a grievous, yet aparrently unavoidable blow. My advice: Pray that the sweet stuff they're promising as the reason for extending combat time will help fix it. (Yarr, I Ganked ur Repperz!)
|
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 16:56:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Zyxlo
Edited by: Zyxlo on 05/12/2006 15:22:05
I hate these boards anyway. Have to type in for the 5th time.
For short, not every 'encounter' classed as deadspace. I'd give up missile launchers on my mega to have the mwd penalties removed but that is just me.
And please keep the language on par with whom you reply to.
Last. This game favors Caldari by all means. Other races get some abilities by some out of the box, cookie cutter setups that CCP haven't though about.
Actually all encounters are classed as deadspace. And I don't care what you'd give up, it only shows how unbalancing it would be.
The language was on par...
And that last bit is just a forum-muppet's typical whine.
Originally by: Zyxlo
Are you stupid? Gallente ships are worse than Amarr after the stupid HP boost.
... orly?
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:01:00 -
[87]
I bet MWD is pretty fine as it is now...
MWD allows you to do a lot of things and people love them despite the penalties... OMG I could tank very well if I hadn't had the MWD fitted.
a MWD ship has to sacrifice 25% capacitor to have it fitted - that's a huge penalty to your tank... but it allows you to close to a target fast (to tackle and use your high damage weapons) while also get away from bubbles and outmaneuvre ships in same class.
Few ships are meant to use MWD and they get the reduced penalty - these ships might not win Eve but sure they got a good advantage...
Thorax isn't the most solid ship but OMG it has nice damage and it can close the range very fast... sure cap is an issue but you can't have OMGBBQ without penalties.
with the new HP boost tank has been favored over gank, so you'll have to adapt... If you need capacitor, just improve your fitting. If you don't like the module use another ship/fitting/module.
Pinky
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SonicCJK
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:32:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Edited by: Verus Potestas on 04/12/2006 17:43:17
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
well if u even knew eve pvp situation atm
Is this the situation where gallente blasterships outdamage the minmatar ACs everywhere inside scramble range?
Yeah, I know it
Not really, just did more dps on megathron than he did on my hurricane but unfortanetly it was midst of fleet battle so sadly i died before i could pop it and ofc NOS ftw, I mwding on hurricane and 2x med nos is fine enough for me along with cap booster ofc, cap booster are matter of difference for MWD pilot like me.
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SonicCJK
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:39:00 -
[89]
go learn lvl 5 energy management skill......at least it neut the MWD cap penalty...
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:43:00 -
[90]
omg is this thread STILL going on???
MWDs have penalties for real reasons. That reason is they make you go so friggin fast its crazy. They are already standard equipment on EVERY ship I fly. If you dont like the penalty, use AB. Whats that you say, thats not fast enough for you? Then take the tradeoff to get the extra speed. You are not the only one with this problem you know. My Zealot with conflag does less damage then blasters on a diemos, but I still have well less then a 10km range. This means MWD!!!!
and look, you get a bonus to MWD cap penalty. whats that, it only gets you back up to 93.75% of original capacitor capacity? Im still at 75%. Suck it up.
Originally by: Tuxford
Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
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mallina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
This is the most 100% ill-gotten information I have ever seen. The HP boost means for DPS blaster boats...
A) It now takes 2 times as long to kill you, which encourages blob PvP
yes it does take longer to kill someone. but you still do it much faster than anyone else. how you think this is a balancing factor I really don't know.
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
B) NOS now totally RUINS T1 PvP in it's entirety (Unless your Minmatarr/Caldari), since it's so horrendously overpowered.
what do you mean.. 'now'.. ?... NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. FFS. It takes longer to kill someone, yes, but it also takes longer to run out of cap, thus the end result is the same - it just takes longer.
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
C) It's even worse when you use a MWD since by the time you even GET to your opponent, OVER HALF of your entire capacitor WILL most likely be gone. THats just to get in range, then you have to take 2 times as long to kill the person, all while being NOS'd.
did you make this one up?
again, hp boost.. nos... by the time you get to your target, you will have more % cap left than you did before. its simple math.
also, ever considered that -maybe- you dont need to run your dual rep tank 100% of the time?
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
MWD Blasterboats SUCK atm
All T1 ships without NOS suck now as well, although not as much
sure, they suck. thats why they're one of the most popular ships for PVP, compared to say... the Geddon, which you cant even Dual Rep if you wanted and is completely useless against any armor tank without damage mods
-----------
Turbulance |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:46:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
omg is this thread STILL going on???
MWDs have penalties for real reasons. That reason is they make you go so friggin fast its crazy. They are already standard equipment on EVERY ship I fly. If you dont like the penalty, use AB. Whats that you say, thats not fast enough for you? Then take the tradeoff to get the extra speed. You are not the only one with this problem you know. My Zealot with conflag does less damage then blasters on a diemos, but I still have well less then a 10km range. This means MWD!!!!
and look, you get a bonus to MWD cap penalty. whats that, it only gets you back up to 93.75% of original capacitor capacity? Im still at 75%. Suck it up.
oh god i dont think that u ever killed someone in lees then 10 ppl gang ..
just plz dont be so stupid and dont try to compare deimos and zealot
.....
i am WIERCHAS i am like UBER and stuff |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
In Excess Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.05 18:06:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
I bet MWD is pretty fine as it is now...
MWD allows you to do a lot of things and people love them despite the penalties... OMG I could tank very well if I hadn't had the MWD fitted.
a MWD ship has to sacrifice 25% capacitor to have it fitted - that's a huge penalty to your tank... but it allows you to close to a target fast (to tackle and use your high damage weapons) while also get away from bubbles and outmaneuvre ships in same class.
Few ships are meant to use MWD and they get the reduced penalty - these ships might not win Eve but sure they got a good advantage...
Thorax isn't the most solid ship but OMG it has nice damage and it can close the range very fast... sure cap is an issue but you can't have OMGBBQ without penalties.
with the new HP boost tank has been favored over gank, so you'll have to adapt... If you need capacitor, just improve your fitting. If you don't like the module use another ship/fitting/module.
Pinky
Spoken like a Caldari who hasn't yet figured out he has the most vestatile, DO ANYTHING I FREAKING WANT, Battleship on the market now.
Rohk FTW folks.....
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Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE. |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
In Excess Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.05 18:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: mallina
did you make this one up?
again, hp boost.. nos... by the time you get to your target, you will have more % cap left than you did before. its simple math.
also, ever considered that -maybe- you dont need to run your dual rep tank 100% of the time?
sure, they suck. thats why they're one of the most popular ships for PVP, compared to say... the Geddon, which you cant even Dual Rep if you wanted and is completely useless against any armor tank without damage mods
Another Caldari that hasn't figured out the Rohk is the 'I WIN!' now.
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Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE. |
Malvahne
Amarr
Wulong Mercenaries
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Posted - 2006.12.05 18:12:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Lancer Hawk
FIX MWD
remove -25% cap penalty
add - 25% turret tracking when microwarp drive is active.
add - 25% turret optimal when MWD active
add - 25% turret falloff when MWD active
add - 25% turret ROF when MWD is active
add - 50% missile/rokets etc ROF when MWD is active
add - 50% nos/nutz effetivness when MWD is active
change +500 sig when MWD is active to +100 sig when microwarpdrive is active
with thses changes the only reasoj to fit a MWD is for speed. during that time all weapons ETC ETC effects are greatly redusced as most of the ships energygrid/cap/cpu is focused in keeping a microwarp bubble active. however when the MWD is deactivated all thses systems come back online.
it also means you dont have snipers with a MWD to keep away from enemys. and to do primarly what its ment to be used for. getting up close to the enemy with your short ranged weapons.
i dunno.. just my bit
I'm not a big fan on changes being made in a game, but if it would be changed i like this idea the most. Ofcours thats why i use a mwd (To get in range.) so granted i'm a bit bias to this proposal perhaps  .
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.05 18:23:00 -
[96]
I agree/signed. The sig penalty and high fitting reqs are enough of a penalty.
... |
Jane Sylari
Under the Wings of Fury
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.12.05 21:36:00 -
[97]
/signed
Even though ccp probably ignores it anyway...
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JFxSummoner
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Posted - 2006.12.06 03:47:00 -
[98]
signed/bump
P.S. un-uberNERF t2 ammo
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Lilani Kuzma
Gallente
Brass Monkeys Society
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:06:00 -
[99]
fix my mwd!
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mallina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:32:00 -
[100]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Another Caldari that hasn't figured out the Rohk is the 'I WIN!' now.
i give up
how is the Rohk the i-win button?
why does it have anything to do with what i said?... I fly Amarr, not Caldari.
Originally by: SSgt Sniper's Sig
Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
um... its called the err.. Maulus, Celestis, Lachesis and Arazu
but i guess you didnt know about them
-----------
Turbulance |
DefJam101
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:42:00 -
[101]
Edited by: DefJam101 on 06/12/2006 16:43:41
Originally by: mallina
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
This is the most 100% ill-gotten information I have ever seen. The HP boost means for DPS blaster boats...
A) It now takes 2 times as long to kill you, which encourages blob PvP
yes it does take longer to kill someone. but you still do it much faster than anyone else. how you think this is a balancing factor I really don't know.
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
B) NOS now totally RUINS T1 PvP in it's entirety (Unless your Minmatarr/Caldari), since it's so horrendously overpowered.
what do you mean.. 'now'.. ?... NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. FFS. It takes longer to kill someone, yes, but it also takes longer to run out of cap, thus the end result is the same - it just takes longer.
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
C) It's even worse when you use a MWD since by the time you even GET to your opponent, OVER HALF of your entire capacitor WILL most likely be gone. THats just to get in range, then you have to take 2 times as long to kill the person, all while being NOS'd.
did you make this one up?
again, hp boost.. nos... by the time you get to your target, you will have more % cap left than you did before. its simple math.
also, ever considered that -maybe- you dont need to run your dual rep tank 100% of the time?
Originally by: DefJam101[/quote
MWD Blasterboats SUCK atm
All T1 ships without NOS suck now as well, although not as much
sure, they suck. thats why they're one of the most popular ships for PVP, compared to say... the Geddon, which you cant even Dual Rep if you wanted and is completely useless against any armor tank without damage mods
None of this makes any sense, stop looking at the stupid percentage statistics.
Gallente ships have to run...
MWD in, bye bye 50% of our cap
Blasters activate, there goes another 15%
Hardners/reppers, bye bye another 20%
So we basically start every fight with 25% of our cap left.
And now that it takes so long for us to kill you, in that time you can easily NOS us down to having no guns, no ability to move, no scram, no NOTHING.
You don't fight in EVE with numbers, it's not that exact, the "boost" we recieved in cap doesn't come close to combatting NOS.
As it is now IF YOU FIT NOS, you WILL beat a T1 ship in 1on1 EVERY time unless your a complete IDIOT. It's impossible to jump people now, used to be those precious seconds they spent panicking would be their demise, now they have a good 20-30 seconds to calm down and click on their little NOS buttons, wait for 10-15 seconds, and they win.
The HP boost did nothing but overpower NOS and destroy Gallente/Amarr ships, tiny little percent changes aren't enough to help us now.
PS mallina, the Celestis gets a sensor dampener bonus, not ECM, least from what I remember, plus we don't have the midslots to fit ECM
Translation: Caldari get access to all the "uber" modules, while Gallente/Amarr get the shaft
***
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:50:00 -
[102]
Originally by: James Duar
Edited by: James Duar on 05/12/2006 13:16:58
Originally by: Laboratus
Originally by: mallina
so what, ABs are just for the noobs and missionrunners?..
the fact is an MWD gives you a HUGE advantage in PVP in near enough any situation. For that advantage, people need to sacrifice something important, like at current - Cap Amount (which is compensated easily enough with Cap Boosters) and the PG requirements which may equal the same as a single low tier gun, which is nothing - considering the benefits.
the LAST thing we need is more people flying around in unbeatable MWDing Nano setups. removing cap penalty on MWD WILL turn it into a must-have module for every ship that isnt Caldari.
No.
Ppl don't fit MWDs because of the cap penalty. Rather because their setup doesn't need it. And they don't have a mid slot to waste for it. And because it has insane fitting requirements.
Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it?
I didn't think so either.
The penalties on the MWD are an unneeded relic, and should be removed.
I don't get it. Does the sig radius penalty not exist in some people's EVE or what? As it stands, not only am I burning cap like no tomorrow, but I also lose total cap on my rax and form a battleship sized target.
EDIT: Sorry this wasn't really directed at you either.
For me the sig radius is not so much of an issue.
Since I usually fly cruisers (when I do) that have a sig radius > sig resolution on the medium guns, I've already lost in that department. Increasing my sig doesn't increase the dps cruisers can do to me (BS and capitals yes), so I'm not too bothered about it.
If I flew Mini cruisers, increasing the sig would be an issue, since they more often rely on transversial+low sig to survive.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.06 16:57:00 -
[103]
Originally by: mallina
Originally by: Laboratus
Are you saying, you will put an MWD on all your ships, if it doesn't have a cap penalty? Even though it generally eats up 10-20% of the PG of the ship? Meaning you either have to leave out a Repper/booster or a few guns to fit it?
I didn't think so either.
Actually, I would
MWD Zealot. MWD Pilgrim. MWD Geddon
MWD Nanoraven.
MWDs on Capitals.
Cool, please tell my how fast you can get a Dread or Carrier going with 100MN WMDs. Please, pretty please? With a cherry on top?
I always wanted to know.
As for the other ships.
IIRC, you can't maintain cap with pulse lasers on any of those (xcept the raven ofc), so it's prolly gonna be an injector setup anyways, so the cap penalty is not an issue there either.
btw
I've always wanted to see 1000MN MWDs.
Think about it. A blaster Moros, or AC Naglfar zooming in at 2-4km/s and instapopping ships left and right.
/me smiles with an absent look in his eyes humming happily
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
mallina
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.06 17:40:00 -
[104]
Originally by: DefJam101
PS mallina, the Celestis gets a sensor dampener bonus, not ECM, least from what I remember, plus we don't have the midslots to fit ECM
Translation: Caldari get access to all the "uber" modules, while Gallente/Amarr get the shaft
so let me get this straight
you want Gallente to have an ECM bonus, despite it being a Caldari module that only their Griffin/BB/Rook/Falcon/Scorp can use effectively (all of which are seriously vunerable ships)
Maybe NOS is a little too good, but boosting MWDs isnt going to fix that. MWDs are fine as they are.
Originally by: Laboratus
Cool, please tell my how fast you can get a Dread or Carrier going with 100MN WMDs. Please, pretty please? With a cherry on top?
I always wanted to know.
it would be like putting a 1mn MWD on a cruiser, giving you about the same boost as an AB but without the fitting reqs of one. if you remove fitting reqs, it basically makes the 1MN MWD a 10MN Afterburner, but less fittings and cap use retaining only the sig radius penalty.
-----------
Turbulance |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
In Excess Enterprises
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:31:00 -
[105]
Originally by: mallina
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Another Caldari that hasn't figured out the Rohk is the 'I WIN!' now.
i give up
how is the Rohk the i-win button?
why does it have anything to do with what i said?... I fly Amarr, not Caldari.
Originally by: SSgt Sniper's Sig
Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
um... its called the err.. Maulus, Celestis, Lachesis and Arazu
but i guess you didnt know about them
No, I know exactly what I said and a RSD bonus isn't an ECM bonus.
---------
Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 05:26:00 -
[106]
Originally by: DefJam101
Originally by: turnschuh
sure lets buff up gallente blaster 99999dps ships even more
Are you stupid? Gallente ships are worse than Amarr after the stupid HP boost.
We talking dps arent we? When did this happen? When did my race (Amarr) become better dps wise compared to gallente. Wow. This is good news.....somehow I still doubt though...
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