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Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 365	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:01:55 - [1] - Quote Back in the days of loot spew exploration people could show up and steal your goodies, but you could also shoot them with their suspect status. Nowadays it's a container you just loot, what makes me angry is if you did not hack it YOU CANNOT OPEN IT! Why are we trying to make the game easymode here? I had ships specifically to nab anyone who bothered to loot from me after some asian did so whilst I was unarmed and stuck around a bit because he figured I was unarmed. I would say let people adapt? Instead of just forcing easymode. Therre wer two other explorers in two highsec sites. I had prepared to scram them if they tried, the thing is it looked like one of them tried multiple times, because he zoomes to the can I was hacking instead of an empty one more than once. Afterwords I tried to open someone elses hacked can and it only tells me I need specalized equipment, but wont let me hack an already hacked can. You also cannot hack a can already being hacked, so now it's down to everything else where they likely expect you to gank if you want to do anything about it, and you can't prepare for anyone who might steal from you becauuuse??? They can't. Are you just planning on slowly removing suspect status altogether? Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tam Arai Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:05:55 - [2] - Quote shoot them after they have looted
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 365	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:06:48 - [3] - Quote Tam Arai wrote: shoot them after they have looted You can't. CCP changed it where you cannot loot the cans if you weren't the hacker. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1152	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:10:46 - [4] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Tam Arai wrote: shoot them after they have looted You can't. CCP changed it where you cannot loot the cans if you weren't the hacker. So you cannot shoot anyone because they cannot go suspect. Leave highsec. Anyway you can still do suspect baiting, bumping them, stealing from highsec cans is pointless profit-wise. I'm my own NPC alt.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 514	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:11:38 - [5] - Quote There is plenty of loot to steal in other places. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25445	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:12:27 - [6] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: You also cannot hack a can already being hacked, so now it's down to everything else where they likely expect you to gank if you want to do anything about it, and you can't prepare for anyone who might steal from you becauuuse??? They can't. So what's the problem? Since they can't steal from you, there's no need prepare for it, and there's not really anything to GÇ£do anything aboutGÇ¥. If they beat you to the loot, then theyGÇª wellGÇª beat you to the loot, so it's obviously theirs because they earned it GÇö they're not stealing from you. Hal Morsh wrote: Tam Arai wrote: shoot them after they have looted You can't. Yes you can. Just switch your safety to red. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 365	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:17:58 - [7] - Quote Tippia wrote: if they beat you to the loot, then theyGÇª wellGÇª beat you to the loot, so it's obviously theirs because they earned it What if I told you I was the one getting the loot? Because I earned it? So should the mission runners deserve the faction rats they killed because..... "they earned it"? The speed of being the first to plant your hacking module down is not the issue. CCP keeps padding highsec so the min/maxers can't hurt themselfs. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25445	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:24:28 - [8] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: What if I told you I was the one getting too the loot? Because I earned it? Then nothing. It still doesn't explain what the problem is or why you're talking about theft. Quote: The speed of things is not the issue. CCP keeps padding highsec so the min/maxers can't hurt themselfs. The speed of things is the entire issue. You're competing in a mini-profession centred on who's quicker on the ball GÇö he who gets the goods first gets the goods and any theft is self-imposed. CCP has made it consistent with similar professions, where theft also is a non-issue. If they're slow, you beat them by opening up more cans (or just more sites) while they're struggling with their one. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Switch Savage The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 171	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:26:44 - [9] - Quote Isn't the loot you get from those HS sites worth almost nothing? I know that's slightly besides the point...
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 365	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:32:55 - [10] - Quote Tippia wrote: Hal Morsh wrote: What if I told you I was the one getting too the loot? Because I earned it? Then nothing. It still doesn't explain what the problem is or why you're talking about theft. Quote: The speed of things is not the issue. CCP keeps padding highsec so the min/maxers can't hurt themselfs. The speed of things is the entire issue. You're competing in a mini-profession centred on who's quicker on the ball GÇö he who gets the goods first gets the goods and any theft is self-imposed. CCP has made it consistent with similar professions, where theft also is a non-issue. If they're slow, you beat them by opening up more cans (or just more sites) while they're struggling with their one. In low or null, the only thing people show up to your site for is to blow you up, and if you happen to have a faction blueprint they loot that. In highsec you can't just shoot people, but there was the option of theft. Which changes things quite a bit, fits go for max scanning and max hacking in stead of being prepared to blow up the other explorer if he gets greedy. People find out they can't steal from someone with better hacking and can't be faster than otherwise. The only option then is to give up right? For some reason CCP sees to remove any middle ground. You either commit an act that gets you indefinitely Concorded or nothing at all. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25447	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:41:46 - [11] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: In low or null, the only thing people show up to your site for is to blow you up, and if you happen to have a faction blueprint they loot that. In highsec you can't just shoot people, but there was the option of theft. Setting aside that you can still just shoot peopleGÇª yes? So? That's highsec: aggression comes at a cost and you are making a bet that other people's miserliness is enough to keep them from shooting you. As it happens, the loot from highsec mini-profession sites is generally so poor that it keeps that miserliness threshold high. Quote: Which changes things quite a bit, fits go for max scanning and max hacking in stead of being prepared to blow up the other explorer if he gets greedy. People find out they can't steal from someone with better hacking and can't be faster than otherwise. The only option then is to give up right? The option to blow them up is still there. The option to be faster is still there. The option to pick a different can is still there. If you choose to do nothing, then yes, the option to give up is the one ~~left~~ you've chosen, but that's a pretty worthless tautology. Unless you go for the highly effective wardec option, your competition within the profession is a matter of your ability within the profession GÇö same as with the other harvesting activities. What's so problematic about that? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Marcus Alexzander 4	Posted - 2015.08.03 15:44:17 - [12] - Quote Leave Hi-Sec. You can do everything you are talking about and more in low/null. And they keep padding Hi-sec because, when you get down to it, Hi-sec is basically the starter zone. I am the prophet of the blood god! Let the stars of New Eden burn!
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 365	Posted - 2015.08.03 17:22:20 - [13] - Quote Someone was willing to steal my loot and I was willing to try and blow him up. Now isn't that called content? I just don't see why the mechanic of theft couldn't have stayed. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25448	Posted - 2015.08.03 17:35:23 - [14] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Someone was willing to steal my loot and I was willing to try and blow him up. Now isn't that called content? I just don't see why the mechanic of theft couldn't have stayed. Because it's not particularly necessary and because it breaks the mould of how the harvesting professions work. Also, if that's the content you're after, you can still have it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 469	Posted - 2015.08.03 17:40:12 - [15] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Back in the days of loot spew exploration people could show up and steal your goodies, but you could also shoot them with their suspect status. Nowadays it's a container you just loot, what makes me angry is if you did not hack it YOU CANNOT OPEN IT! Why are we trying to make the game easymode here? I had ships specifically to nab anyone who bothered to loot from me after some asian did so whilst I was unarmed and stuck around a bit because he figured I was unarmed. I would say let people adapt? Instead of just forcing easymode. There were two other explorers in two highsec sites. I had prepared to scram them if they tried, the thing is it looked like one of them tried multiple times, because he zoomed to the cans I was hacking instead of an empty one more than once. Afterwords I tried to open someone elses hacked can and it only tells me I need specalized equipment, but wont let me hack an already hacked can. You also cannot hack a can already being hacked, so now it's down to everything else where they likely expect you to gank if you want to do anything about it, and you can't prepare for anyone who might steal from you becauuuse??? They can't. Are you just planning on slowly removing suspect status altogether? Stop making highsec safer in the dumbest of ways. When exploration GETS crowded, fighting between each other for the loot is one way to take care of things, but uhm no.... We can't. I thought you could shoot anyone in null or lowsec?
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3558	Posted - 2015.08.03 17:43:50 - [16] - Quote Please also remember the reason the loot spew went away: Most all explorers hated it. Not due to theft, but because it was annoying. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Hallvardr 72	Posted - 2015.08.03 18:02:15 - [17] - Quote OP ... as others have said .. you're the one stealing (wanting to)... you shoot them and take what's left. Unless .. you're the one crying for easymode .. ah .. that's it .. YOU want the easy mode.
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 366	Posted - 2015.08.03 18:45:37 - [18] - Quote Hallvardr wrote: OP ... as others have said .. you're the one stealing (wanting to)... you shoot them and take what's left. Unless .. you're the one crying for easymode .. ah .. that's it .. YOU want the easy mode. How is it me wanting the easy mode? They only put themselfs in that place by stealing, and it's not an often situation to begin with. I would also need an alt for the easymode you speak of. Concord will still kill you for 15 minutes before you can bother trying to loot it. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25449	Posted - 2015.08.03 18:52:14 - [19] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: How is it me wanting the easy mode? Rather than seeking out the kind of environment you're talking about, you want fights to happen where everything is set up in your favour. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 366	Posted - 2015.08.03 19:01:44 - [20] - Quote Tippia wrote: Hal Morsh wrote: How is it me wanting the easy mode? Rather than seeking out the kind of environment you're talking about, you want fights to happen where everything is set up in your favour. But how would it be my favor? It works both ways. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 366	Posted - 2015.08.03 19:13:48 - [21] - Quote They have added exploration content throughout the game, also increasing what you can get from highsec, including through wormholes to easy null exploration sites within, but things added in highsec with any player conflict in suspect status removed. Ghost sites don't add a way for players to clash outside of wardecs. They just blow you up if your ship isn't well tanked enough or if you weren't fast enough at fleeing in a smaller ship, no player conflicts.. Ways for people to put themselfs at risk for a peice of someone elses stuff shouldn't be removed. If that were the case why do tractor units cause suspect? That would be easymode too right? if I bump someone off the unit and kill it isn't that around the same level as exploration theft? If so why have one and not the other? Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Austneal 5th Fleet Bilgewaters 46	Posted - 2015.08.03 19:22:03 - [22] - Quote I agree with the OP. Highsec has been hit with a very large PvP nerfbat lately, which makes the game a bit of a pain to play without being able to devote half of your life + your first born child to it. Just my opinion (and call me a scrub if you will) but I had unsubbed after feeling more and more like I'm being pushed into low / null. I've just recently re-subbed to see if anything had been added that might make it bit more fun for me, and I'm saddened to see that its only gone further towards "easy mode" Someone with a grudge or a good threat used to be enough cause fear... now the only thing to fear are suicide gankers (and bumpers, if you're a miner)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25449	Posted - 2015.08.03 19:46:10 - [23] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: But how would it be my favor? Because of how S-flagging works. You do understand how S-flaggin works, right, and how the engagement parameters for the two parties are vastly different GÇö i.e. that it very explicitly and inherently does not GÇ£work both waysGÇ¥? You're just not asking for something that you've vaguely heard about and don't quite fully grasp the repercussions of? Quote: I can't really go to low or null Yes you can. There is literally nothing stopping you. It provides the kind of environment you're asking for (well, aside from it being skewed in your favour) and only you are keeping you from experiencing that environment for some reason. You don't need a wallet; you don't need alts; you don't need anything other than what you'd use in highsec. Beyond that, the scenario you're asking for actually requires those things more than what the existing environments would ask for you in the same situation. Quote: So any excitement where I live would be great. Stop blaming mechanics and go have some, then, assuming that's what you actually want. But that's not really what you're asking for GÇö you're asking for fights to happen entirely on your terms and with everything set up in your favour. That's not a particularly compelling reason to change anything. The excitement is there if you just start looking at the terms of the competition you're engaging in, and actively compete in it with the tools at your disposal. Combat is not particularly necessary to create any of that. Quote: What i'm saying is I can't compete against Russians camping gates or a bunch of roaming drunk brits. Good news: both are almost completely irrelevant to what you want to achieve. The GÇ£problemGÇ¥ you're having is a fabrication; it's something you've created for yourself, not something the game forces on you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 366	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:06:38 - [24] - Quote I still don't see how suspect is in my favor. He steals, and he either gets away or I fight him. I steal, and either I get away or we fight. They removed PVP from highsec exploration. Competition for a site can't be settled between two in a site. You have to get someone to gank and someone to loot, in stead of the easier (for both parties) "I want your loot, but risk repercussions". Risk reward was fine. Do you really encourage ganking over two people trying to outdo each other with a PVP risk? An alt to gank and an alt to loot. Forget competion right? "Let's just get 2 accounts and blow them up, or not be involved" is not the better side of things. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25450	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:19:30 - [25] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: I still don't see how suspect is in my favor. Ok. Then you need to stop asking for it and go read up on how the different criminal flags work, in particular the details of who can do what to whom and under what circumstances. Before you do, you don't understand your own request and simply cannot contribute to the conversation. Quote: They removed PVP from highsec exploration. Competition for a site can't be settled between two in a site. You also need to go read up on what PvP means. No, they have not removed PvP from highsec exploration GÇö it is as much PvP as ever, and all you're showing is that you choose not to compete. Your decision to yield means that the competition has been settled in the site, so your second claim is instantly disproven even if it weren't obviously false to begin with. Again: you compete by being faster, better, by picking different cans, or, if it comes to that, by blowing the other guy up. Choosing GÇ£none of the aboveGÇ¥ does not mean there is no competition; it means you choose to forfeit. You lose, by choice and by default. What you want already exists. What you're asking for is tons of advantages for no good reason. What you're asking for also requires all the things you think are obstacles, whereas none of those requirements actually exist at the moment. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Moth Eisig 106	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:32:58 - [26] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: I can't really go to low or null because I don't have a huge wallet and an army of alts, and people really don't like it when you learn EVE on their killboards. One character and a covops frigate is all you need to make plenty of isk doing nullsec exploration. And then you can use that to pay for blowing up/losing ships wherever and against whomever you want. Nullsec's really not that scary as long as you put some effort into learning the ropes.
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 367	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:45:20 - [27] - Quote Tippia wrote: Because of how S-flagging works. You do understand how S-flaggin works, right, and how the engagement parameters for the two parties are vastly different GÇö i.e. that it very explicitly and inherently does not GÇ£work both waysGÇ¥? You're just not asking for something that you've vaguely heard about and don't quite fully grasp the repercussions of? Tippia wrote: Ok. Then you need to stop asking for it and go read up on how the different criminal flags work, in particular the details of who can do what to whom and under what circumstances. Before you do, you don't understand your own request and simply cannot contribute to the conversation. Trying to derail the topic and point it towards me by repeatedly throwing your opinion at "suspect flag ineptitude" means I am done with talking to you. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 4039	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:46:48 - [28] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: What i'm saying is I can't compete against Russians camping gates or a bunch of roaming drunk brits. So removing places to compete with similar minded PVP incompetents is upsetting. +1 this made me laugh My first ever kill (100% luck, btw) was a hilarious highsec deathmatch between two month-old wannabe mission baiters/pvp noobs. Neither of us even had a point I think... That would never had happened in lowsec, where our cute t1-fit t1-cruisers would have very probably been put out of their misery 1 or 2 jumps in from highsec, before even meeting. Can't see any harm in allowing people to steal your data/relic can, if I correctly understood the mechanics the OP speaks of. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Buoytender Bob Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining 53	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:55:09 - [29] - Quote You claim that "Asians", "Russians", and ""drunk Brits" are ruining hi-sec exploration or your EVE options? Perhaps the UN and not CCP should be asked to correct the problem. Tippia is correct To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit. ...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25450	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:01:19 - [30] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Trying to derail the topic No. Trying to make you understand what it is you're talking about. Without such an understanding, you don't even know what the rails in question look like. You are asking to be given huge advantages because you want to experience gameplay that is already available to you but which you choose not to engage in for bogus reasons. I am trying to determine whether you are being dishonest about what you actually want to achieve, or if you're just not familiar enough with the game to understand the reasons for the design and repercussions of changing them. Without that information, discussing your idea becomes pointless. The question of flag ineptitude is for you to answer and establish, but has a huge impact on the validity of your complaint. The fact that you're using bogus reasons for your choices is worrying in and of itself, but at least that provides an implicit explanation for your request. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.

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