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War Decs: It's time for them to go away.

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Utara Ataru Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:16:33 - [1] - Quote Over the past 4 years I've watched an alarming trend in EVE. As the number of active null sec alliances has steadily dwindled under the onslaught of Nulli and the Goons, the number of high sec merc corps has slowly grown. During 2014, the HS Alliance that I was in was involved in 25 war decs totaling 38 weeks and during that period we lost 90% of our active player base. Some went to WH, some went to null, but most left the game altogether. Now before you label me a "carebear" and flame me for the next 2 days, understand that I have characters in null sec and in WH's, what I am saying is that this trend is not good for CCP and for EVE. In order for this game to continue to thrive, CCP has to have a large player base that pays their money every month and that most certainly includes the HS indy players who love to mine and craft and who list most of the stuff sold in the major markets. We all know that the hard core PvPr's of this and every other game are the most vocal when ANYTHING threatens their turf, but you guys have low sec / null sec / WH's / faction warfare, you need to stand down on this issue, let CCP end the broken HS war dec system and hope that some of these indy players come back so that their RL money can keep paying devs to fix other things in the game.
Billy Bojangle Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:21:09 - [2] - Quote Utara Ataru wrote: onslaught of Nulli Not subtle enough.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25450	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:21:53 - [3] - Quote So what do you suggest to replace them for the purpose of engaging in warfare with other players? e: Oh, and no industrialist has ever left the game due to wars GÇö quite the opposite. Wars is what sustain them and give them any reason to play. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2671	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:22:22 - [4] - Quote War system broken? Definitely. Removing it in order to "attract subscriptions by reducing risk"? Heh, no.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 1959	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:28:48 - [5] - Quote Rowells wrote: War system broken? Definitely. Removing it in order to "attract subscriptions by reducing risk"? Heh, no. This. If it's not working as intended, fix it, don't toss it. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6737	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:32:51 - [6] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Rowells wrote: War system broken? Definitely. Removing it in order to "attract subscriptions by reducing risk"? Heh, no. This. If it's not working as intended, fix it, don't toss it. Fix: toss it. something reverse of teams ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Dradis Aulmais RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic 985	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:33:17 - [7] - Quote Hahahahahahahah Hahaha Ha It's funny cuz it's sad you believe this. Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896 Free The Scope Three
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 367	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:33:31 - [8] - Quote Tippia wrote: So what do you suggest to replace them with for the purpose of engaging in warfare with other players? e: Oh, and no industrialist has ever left the game due to wars GÇö quite the opposite. Wars are what sustain them and give them any reason to play. We could replace it with. You know. maybe more suspect status? Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25451	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:36:20 - [9] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: We could replace it with. You know. maybe more suspect status? Not really, no. Maybe you should read up on what S-flagging entails. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Marcus Alexzander 4	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:45:18 - [10] - Quote Tippia wrote: So what do you suggest to replace them with for the purpose of engaging in warfare with other players? e: Oh, and no industrialist has ever left the game due to wars GÇö quite the opposite. Wars are what sustain them and give them any reason to play. But do they realize it? I have to agree Indy toons should love war decs (and code for that matter, but again do they understand the eve market?) But - I also agree with the OP, I have been in several alliances and/or corps that when they got war dec'd they ran and stuck there heads in the sand and told there members to "hide out" or not log for the duration of the dec. (that was there play style, whatever) and being "forced" (its a sand box do whatever) to not log for a week just so you don't lose anything and want to stay with your corp is a big turn off when your paying to play the game. I love war dec's , but a tweak wouldn't be bad. I am the prophet of the blood god! Let the stars of New Eden burn!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25453	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:50:12 - [11] - Quote Marcus Alexzander wrote: But do they realize it? I have to agree Indy toons should love war decs (and code for that matter, but again do they understand the eve market?) Industrialists do GÇö that's what make them industrialists rather than just some carebear who throws stuff on the market without any understanding of what they're doing. Quote: I also agree with the OP, I have been in several alliances and/or corps that when they got war dec'd they ran and stuck there heads in the sand and told there members to "hide out" or not log for the duration of the dec. (that was there play style, whatever) and being "forced" (its a sand box do whatever) to not log for a week just so you don't lose anything and want to stay with your corp is a big turn off when your paying to play the game. That's a problem with the players in question, and their willingness to grief their ~~victims~~ GÇ£corpmatesGÇ¥, not with wardecs. I'm not entirely convinced that their leaving is a bad thingGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 4039	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:01:30 - [12] - Quote Utara Ataru wrote: HS indy players who love to mine and craft and who list most of the stuff sold in the major markets. Mine --> NPC alt Craft --> Station Move stuff --> Red Frog, or Blockade Runner if it's small Sell stuff --> whatever, wardecs don't matter False problem solved. Indy players are smart guys/gals, it's pretty easy to figure this out. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Marcus Alexzander 4	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:10:11 - [13] - Quote Tippia wrote: That's a problem with the players in question, and their willingness to grief their ~~victims~~ GÇ£corpmatesGÇ¥, not with wardecs. I'm not entirely convinced that their leaving is a bad thingGÇª From a gamer perspective, yes, from a business/game developers perspective, no. If it takes carebears to keep eve up and evolving, I can support them. I would rather teach them anyways and get some good fights rather slaughter some whelps. I am the prophet of the Blood God! Let the stars of New Eden burn!
DaReaper Net 7 2446	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:13:39 - [14] - Quote hahahaahah oh lord.. no. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining! Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13917	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:16:49 - [15] - Quote I for one think it's time for NPC corp forum posting to go away. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Larry Cucumber Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:23:58 - [16] - Quote Limit # of active wars allowed and make them Empire specific. Most of the leet PVP groups that do it are basically hisec gankers with a pass rather than PVPers.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25454	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:33:20 - [17] - Quote Marcus Alexzander wrote: From a gamer perspective, yes, from a business/game developers perspective, no. It's not a very clear GÇ£noGÇ£ from that perspective either. We're talking about an inherently unappeasable group that will leave because their wishes are at a fundamentally counter to the core design sensibilities of the game, and as such they have no real attachment to the game. When (not if) something comes along that actually caters to their taste, they're gone. Chasing players who aren't interested won't make them interested GÇö it will only mean you spend infinite resources on pursuing an impossible target. As such, trying to appease them anyway will inevitably have three results: first, you lose the players who enjoy the game as designed; then you lose the players you tried to attract, partly because they don't actually like the game, and partly because you've broken everything that gives the game any coherence and purpose and that differentiates it from other games. You've become bland and boring, so no-one will bother. It's the classic GÇö oft-attempted and always failed GÇö case of trying to replace an actual customer base with a hypothetical one. It's never a good trade because it relies entirely on making trying to elicit interest among those who have long since determined that they're not interested. It's ok if some players don't like your game. Tastes vary, and you can't satisfy them all GÇö trying to cater to everyone inevitably means pleasing no-one, and trying to capture every customer will just as inevitably mean you end up with no customers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
DaReaper Net 7 2446	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:34:45 - [18] - Quote Larry Cucumber wrote: Limit # of active wars allowed and make them Empire specific. Most of the leet PVP groups that do it are basically hisec gankers with a pass rather than PVPers. you do know it would be stupid simple to get around a hard limit right? OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining! Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
Kaely Tanniss Black Hydra Consortium. 443	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:39:57 - [19] - Quote O...M...G... This kind of tear post belongs in the "features and ideas" forum..not here. Do realize that Eve is a spaceship combat game and no one is safe from war and turmoil. I agree, there are some aspects of the mechanic that need work..but remove them? No way...seems like another call for "Eve theme-park". I think not Adapt to survive. If you're not willing to fight for what you have..you don't deserve to have it. If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Utara Ataru Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:44:09 - [20] - Quote Tippia wrote: Marcus Alexzander wrote: From a gamer perspective, yes, from a business/game developers perspective, no. It's not a very clear GÇ£noGÇ£ from that perspective either. We're talking about an inherently unappeasable group that will leave because their wishes are at a fundamentally counter to the core design sensibilities of the game, and as such they have no real attachment to the game. When (not if) something comes along that actually caters to their taste, they're gone. Tippia, that statement assumes that the vast majority of EVE players are here solely for the PvP and that simply is not true. Having played a dozen or more MMO's, there are at least 7 major things to do in these games with PvP being one of them. But we're really not talking PvP here, we're talking major PvP corps/alliances who routinely have 100 active war decs and who demand 200 million isk or more to drop the war dec. They've done the math, they know most will pay and they make a hefty return on their 50 million isk investment. As for HS war decs against indy corps being classified as PvP, there is no honor or glory in killing a mac with a faction cruiser. That falls more in the realm of a 6th grader beating up a 1st grader. Why not make each additional war dec jump 50% in cost and each war dec extension cost 50% more per renewal. Take a tour of high sec, systems that used to have 20 to 70 players in them now have 6 or less players. This is no small problem here folks and its getting worse. IF CCP doesn't address this issue, the unemployment rate in Iceland will go up very soon and new content changes within EVE will grind to a halt, I've seen it happen again and again in other games.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13918	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:51:24 - [21] - Quote Utara Ataru wrote: IF CCP doesn't address this issue, the unemployment rate in Iceland will go up very soon and new content changes within EVE will grind to a halt, I've seen it happen again and again in other games. "Gais, gais! The thing that I don't like is KILLING the game! Only by removing the thing I don't like can you save it!" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
DaReaper Net 7 2446	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:58:03 - [22] - Quote and now you just done got your thread reported... OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining! Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25456	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:58:45 - [23] - Quote Utara Ataru wrote: Tippia, that statement assumes that the vast majority of EVE players are here solely for the PvP and that simply is not true. No, it assumes that the vast majority of EVE players are here because they like EVE. If they don't like EVE, why should EVE cater to them? Quote: But we're really not talking PvP here, we're talking major PvP corps/alliances who routinely have 100 active war decs and who demand 200 million isk or more to drop the war dec. They've done the math, they know most will pay and they make a hefty return on their 50 million isk investment. So? What's the problem? Quote: As for HS war decs against indy corps being classified as PvP, there is no honor or glory in killing a mac with a faction cruiser. Luckily, honor or glory have nothing to do with classifying something as PvP, nor are they in any way relevant forGÇª wellGÇª anything, really. Quote: Take a tour of high sec, systems that used to have 20 to 70 players in them now have 6 or less players. Good. That means that more space has been made relevant and that people can distribute themselves according to their wishes rather than according to some arbitrary and artificial constraints in what's available in a select few systems. Quote: IF CCP doesn't address this issue What issue? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:59:28 - [24] - Quote They should just turn high-sec and low-sec into null just without the sov mechanics. No need for the wardec mechanics then.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2314	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:06:43 - [25] - Quote Getting rid of them entirely is probably a little drastic. Making it less of a kill farm and more a meaningful kind of thing that makes sense would probably make sense and be nice. They could fix the bounty system again while they're at it. Then again, highsec wardecs and the very PvFineprint situation they entail are what's making me keep and extra account and I am willing to bet that anyone who does any kind of sizeable 0.0 logistics work has highsec alts to avoid having to hassle themselves with a stupid system. So I am guessing that everyone who couldn't be bothered to deal with it and left the game has since been replaced by at least one convenience alt =p
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:13:38 - [26] - Quote Kiandoshia wrote: Then again, highsec wardecs and the very PvFineprint situation they entail are what's making me keep and extra account and I am willing to bet that anyone who does any kind of sizeable 0.0 logistics work has highsec alts to avoid having to hassle themselves with a stupid system. So are you saying if I go to null (only character) that I would not be able to keep this character going, or put another way not earn enough to replace the loses? Hopefully I read that wrong.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2314	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:18:39 - [27] - Quote Avvy wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Then again, highsec wardecs and the very PvFineprint situation they entail are what's making me keep and extra account and I am willing to bet that anyone who does any kind of sizeable 0.0 logistics work has highsec alts to avoid having to hassle themselves with a stupid system. So are you saying if I go to null (only character) that I would not be able to keep this character going, or put another way not earn enough to replace the loses? Hopefully I read that wrong. I mean logistics alts. Freighters, not Scimitars.
HeXxploiT Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn 171	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:27:24 - [28] - Quote There is nothing wrong with wardecs in their current form. There are multiple levels of safety in the game and for those who want to play it safe there are npc corps. The mechanics are there and they are just fine you just don't want to use them. As always it's risk vs reward.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24505	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:27:32 - [29] - Quote Utara Ataru wrote: Over the past 4 years I've watched an alarming trend in EVE. As the number of active null sec alliances has steadily dwindled under the onslaught of Nulli and the Goons, the number of high sec merc corps has slowly grown. During 2014, the HS Alliance that I was in was involved in 25 war decs totaling 38 weeks and during that period we lost 90% of our active player base. Some went to WH, some went to null, but most left the game altogether. Grr Goons detected. Without wardecs or the mechanics being more limited than they already are. Hisec becomes a licence to print Isk, devaluing everything. CCP themselves considered the wardecs to be underutilised when they last changed the relevant mechanics in 2012, this should tell you something. Wardecs now cost more than they ever have, and people on the receiving end of a wardec have multiple options available to them to deal with it. Quote: Now before you label me a "carebear" and flame me for the next 2 days, understand that I have characters in null sec and in WH's, These things are not mutually exclusive Carebear is an attitude, not a play-style. Quote: what I am saying is that this trend is not good for CCP and for EVE. In order for this game to continue to thrive, CCP has to have a large player base that pays their money every month and that most certainly includes the HS indy players who love to mine and craft and who list most of the stuff sold in the major markets. CCP needs the same thing it's had for the last decade, a dedicated player base that pays their money every month and wants to play the game they set out to make; chasing a hypothetical larger audience that want to play another game entirely is a fool's errand. Quote: We all know that the hard core PvPr's of this and every other game are the most vocal when ANYTHING threatens their turf, but you guys have low sec / null sec / WH's / faction warfare, you need to stand down on this issue, let CCP end the broken HS war dec system Hisec is as much a spaceship PvP area as anywhere else in space, albeit with different mechanics. Wardecs are working as intended in terms of generating conflict and loss; they allow non hisec groups to attack, often by proxy (mercs), their enemies supply lines and out of corp support in hisec. Quote: and hope that some of these indy players come back so that their RL money can keep paying devs to fix other things in the game. PvP comes in myriad forms in Eve, pewpew and industry are just two of them; Eve is a game about conflict, it drives everything around you and no play-style is exempt from it. A true industrialist in Eve sees war and other conflict as an opportunity, not a hindrance. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Giaus Felix Hedion University Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:33:47 - [30] - Quote Utara Ataru wrote: Tippia, that statement assumes that the vast majority of EVE players are here solely for the PvP and that simply is not true. Having played a dozen or more MMO's, there are at least 7 major things to do in these games with PvP being one of them. PvP is Player vs Player. With that in mind please list the activities in Eve that don't require competing against other players for influence, resources, isk, etc.

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