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POS Fix or Nerf?

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Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:43:00 - [1] From the updated patch notes: Quote: A Starbase in reinforced mode contributes to Sovereignty. This means that you can't just roll in 20-30 dreads and take someone's station that they've held for over a year in less than 18 hours. Now you actually have to kill off the towers or put more of your own down and defend them until you have move Sov 'points'. It's a small change but one that's likely to have a big effect on the way sieges are conducted. I think this is the way the system was originally intended to work anyway. Thoughts? - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:50:00 - [2] Edited by: maarud on 05/12/2006 08:50:49 POS Spamage ftw? EDIT Not sure I like the new sig, the old ones were better Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Gwelaf Gallente Rogue Arrow Galactic Empire	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:51:00 - [3] i think its a great change and makes sieges more like what i believe they intended for the POS/sov system. then again i can see it from say a merc point of view its going to make clearing a system and gaining control of an outpost and system a whole lot harder
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:52:00 - [4] It does however just encourage POS spam, which is fundamentally a bad thing Since the only way to efficiently gain Sov is to have more POS up, rather then putting a few up before knocking the hostile ones down. I'm not sure it's a positive change, but then I would say that wouldn't I. I'm the aggressor atm. .... Real men use blasters
Cardassius Caldari Nun Amun Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:56:00 - [5] Good :) Now they will work like CCP said they did ;)
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:57:00 - [6] Yeah, thats pretty much what I was thinking. Spam a zillion POS's into the system and then go about trying to remove your enemies POS's. Gonna make things a little more boring, its probably the way it was always suppose to be, so they are basically just fixing a bug. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:57:00 - [7] Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/12/2006 08:57:29 Was supposed to come. RA tried that in 1v-. Shot all 5 poses into reinforcement before downtime to take the station after that. GMs said, it's a bug that poses in reinforcment don't add to sovereignty. Makes sense to me, because otherwise the people, who can field more people around downtime, would have an advantage. You'd just shoot all poses into reinforcement before DT and shoot the station after DT. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:47:00 - [8] If they solved the lag this would become abit more academic. Right now it's a pain either way to be ******* honest. :(
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:50:00 - [9] It's a good change for peeps who cant field massive numbers straight before and after DT. It's definitely a fairer way of doing although I fear it will lead to mass pos spam in systems but that's just the way it is. If you want to defeat someone you have to completely clear them out from a system now. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:55:00 - [10] Glad this bug got fixed, though if it was up to me I would remove POS from the game entirely and put weapons around the station (POS would still remain as an industrial element). The reason for this is it takes X ISK and less than 1 hour to put up a tower, while you need 20-30 X ISK to take it down in less than an hour! The risk and cost of putting up a POS is low, while the risk and cost of taking them down is high in multiple factors... Hence the POS spammage. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Gibmundur Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:57:00 - [11] Only good pos change would be to take them out of eve.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Gibmundur Only good pos change would be to take them out of eve. A better change would be for Celes to stop whining about the fact that some people want to build infrastructure in space and that infrastructure shouldn't be removable by roving gangs of battleships. Personally I think it's probably a sensible change but it will make for a lot more grind when it comes to territorial wars. Blog
Mindlles 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:04:00 - [13] Edited by: Mindlles on 05/12/2006 10:05:12 Another Make eve easy change in my opion. They are making everything much easyer atm so why not make it even more easy! What ever happend to the unforgiving eve wich i like so much //Edit - offcurse its gets harder for a attacking force. But in the end off the day its a change that will "help" most off eve coummnity.. Again..
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Mindlles Another Make eve easy change in my opion. They are making everything much easyer atm so why not make it even more easy! What ever happend to the unforgiving eve wich i like so much I don't what it has to do with unforgiving or not. The only significant impact is on the tactic of: - surprise POS deployment 4 hours before DT - Shoot enemy POS into reinforced 2 hours before DT - take station after DT This tactic makes the game of surprise attacks one that can mostly only be done properly by corps/alliances in the appropriate timezones to be online around DT. Why should any group be at a serious advantage/disadvantage just because of the timezone in which they can play?
Juhlo	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:12:00 - [15] Edited by: Juhlo on 05/12/2006 10:12:20 ......
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:14:00 - [16] Originally by: DB Preacher It's a good change for peeps who cant field massive numbers straight before and after DT. It's definitely a fairer way of doing although I fear it will lead to mass pos spam in systems but that's just the way it is. If you want to defeat someone you have to completely clear them out from a system now. dbp -one week of lvl4 mission (2h/day in cerberus) -buy small POS towers -spam them before DT -take the sytem -win eve Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Mindlles Another Make eve easy change in my opion. They are making everything much easyer atm so why not make it even more easy! What ever happend to the unforgiving eve wich i like so much I don't what it has to do with unforgiving or not. The only significant impact is on the tactic of: - surprise POS deployment 4 hours before DT - Shoot enemy POS into reinforced 2 hours before DT - take station after DT This tactic makes the game of surprise attacks one that can mostly only be done properly by corps/alliances in the appropriate timezones to be online around DT. Why should any group be at a serious advantage/disadvantage just because of the timezone in which they can play? WTS NewYork to Moscow tickets! WTS San Francisco to Moscow tickets! Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Mindlles Another Make eve easy change in my opion. They are making everything much easyer atm so why not make it even more easy! What ever happend to the unforgiving eve wich i like so much //Edit - offcurse its gets harder for a attacking force. But in the end off the day its a change that will "help" most off eve coummnity.. Again.. It mostly helps the defenders, yes. However, I think that if you spend 6-10 months developing a region that it should take longer than 12 hours for someone to waltz in and take your station. I'm speaking as someone who has done this. If you want someone's land then you should have to bulldoze them out of it. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Tjakka KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/12/2006 09:11:13 Blablablabla It is just stupid that you cant take systems if you take all or most pos in reinforce. If you spend 6hours shooting down 5 of the towers it seems pretty normal you can take the station and what keeps the defender from defending it? they can just take it back as easy as the attackers got it. So now CCP is gonna force ppl to drop pos on every moons and spam the system full with it and attack the defender at there strongest times (if the defender knows that they doing with timing pos) its the era of POS spam attacking Allaince station systems with pos is already hard enough pre rev dont think the HP of dreads will make it any differend with the risk of attacking hostile pos wiht decent ammount of ppl in local
Charly Quickfire	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:40:00 - [20] Edited by: Charly Quickfire on 05/12/2006 10:49:19 due to this being a game mechanic question I kindly ask the mods to not delete posts by npc chars like me, thx (I know that saying I am playing since late beta does not matter really as it cannot be verified because this is my new char/main) now on topic: I agree with the change/fix as I think this was the way it was meant to work in the first place, and should work if you ask me personally. Rules out timezone disadvantages and gives the defender the natural advantage he should have for putting up and maintaining the POSs in his systems. It may lead to more POS spamming and boring POS assaults, but am I the only one who thinks that w/o or only little lag, POS wars would be a lot less boring? Apart from the system being kinda anti-fun anyway and could use some tweaks. Not that I have a solution tho EDIT - added that this actually is my main and not an alt, we will see if it helps
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:47:00 - [21] While this change looks good on paper, I think that it will lead to even more POS spamming than is already the case(Geez is that even possible?) It does sound a lot more logical however, why should a tower stop claiming sov before it is completely removed? That never sat well with me. Now I can only hope that it has already been implemented before we see a repeat of the 1v- scenario as pointed out by Plutonium above. The only good POS war is an OVER POS war. F4T4L is Recruiting!
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Omeega Originally by: DB Preacher It's a good change for peeps who cant field massive numbers straight before and after DT. It's definitely a fairer way of doing although I fear it will lead to mass pos spam in systems but that's just the way it is. If you want to defeat someone you have to completely clear them out from a system now. dbp -one week of lvl4 mission (2h/day in cerberus) -buy small POS towers -spam them before DT -take the sytem -win eve Im far from POS expert....but I thought small POS<Large POS (regarding points for soveregnity-at least it mented like that). So, those lev4 missions goes to toilet if so. And i still dont understand those 5 days something. for example....if there is a system without soveengity and without single POS. If you put 1 POS....how long will take till you get soveregnity. 1 day or 5 days. If its 5 days...then spamming POS's before DT wont help for blitzkrig some ppl got used Darth Solo=McCready...in different package
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:02:00 - [23] While I hate POS wars with a passion it's a good change overall since it addresses the timezone advantage issues. Taking another alliances space shouldn't be somthing that's done overnight. It should be a long siege where the emphasis is on economic and logistcal abilities (supplies, fuel, repairs) as much as it is on sheer firepower. it helps seperate those that really want to fight for the territory from those that are taking it just for the hell of it. It maybe boring but at least it stops sovereignty ping pong each day until one side gets bored as well as seperating those that really want to fight for the territory from those that are taking it just for the hell of it. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Darcuese Originally by: Omeega Originally by: DB Preacher It's a good change for peeps who cant field massive numbers straight before and after DT. It's definitely a fairer way of doing although I fear it will lead to mass pos spam in systems but that's just the way it is. If you want to defeat someone you have to completely clear them out from a system now. dbp -one week of lvl4 mission (2h/day in cerberus) -buy small POS towers -spam them before DT -take the sytem -win eve Im far from POS expert....but I thought small POS<Large POS (regarding points for soveregnity-at least it mented like that). So, those lev4 missions goes to toilet if so. And i still dont understand those 5 days something. for example....if there is a system without soveengity and without single POS. If you put 1 POS....how long will take till you get soveregnity. 1 day or 5 days. If its 5 days...then spamming POS's before DT wont help for blitzkrig some ppl got used let's all have a pact-of-if-agressed-non-POS-spammage ? :) Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Tjakka Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/12/2006 09:11:13 Blablablabla blablabla ;) So now CCP is gonna force ppl to drop pos on every moons and spam the system full with it and attack the defender at there strongest times (if the defender knows that they doing with timing pos) The whole idea of reinforcment mode is that we don't have station ping-pong and time-zone wars. And in addition to that noone should get an advantage, just because he has the numbers before downtime to tear down poses. Sovereignty changes take 5 days. Just because you have numbers before DT and the enemy 12 hours later shouldn't allow you to get a station instantly. No time-zone advantage for players around DT. If you want station ping-pong again, then remove the sovereignty stuff and it would be the same again for all timezones. Coalition can field 30 dreads, too. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:48:00 - [26] Weclome to the new era of pos spam. It's a horrible change. It weighs far too much in favour of spam spam spam and in the favour defenders who can't, erm, defend? Horrible, horrible change. It does nothing to promote aggression or assault - they would have been better off fixing the system so that soveriegnty didn't rely on a down time to apply. Originally by: CRYVOK Others, like BoB, they play the game in a meaningless fasition, concerned with nothing but winning. We care about our friends.
The Anointed Caldari StarBug Industries	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:50:00 - [27] This is coming from someone with NO experience in pos warfare (lucky me). But from my understanding of this, its only going to slow down the process of taking stations and systems from thier current owners. Although this is going to mean that anyone hiring seelene is going to have to have deeper pockets I guess, it also means that it takes the 'rush' out of it all. Not only does it give the owners of a station time to sort its act out, but it means that surely there will be less ping pong with the stations? How do people think this will affect people like MC and other mercs, How about the big Alliances like ASCN? Surely this will lead to much more effort needed to ttake a station? Before if im not mistaken, you rush in, put pos's into reinforced (whilst putting up your own), snatch station, game over. Now though, wont the defenders be able to stockpile loads of deathstars in their station, and then just at some point in the process of you having to pull all their stations down, they can spam as many as possible. I always thought the process for hanging onto a station was pretty strange, all that isk and imo what seems like a **** poor way of holding on to it.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:53:00 - [28] Edited by: Seleene on 05/12/2006 11:53:51 Originally by: Dianabolic Weclome to the new era of pos spam. It's a horrible change. It weighs far too much in favour of spam spam spam and in the favour defenders who can't, erm, defend? Horrible, horrible change. It does nothing to promote aggression or assault - they would have been better off fixing the system so that soveriegnty didn't rely on a down time to apply. Diana, if you've got control of someone's space then all this does is add a couple extra days of waiting to finish off the towers, which you'll do anyway, right? Originally by: The Anointed Now though, wont the defenders be able to stockpile loads of deathstars in their station, and then just at some point in the process of you having to pull all their stations down, they can spam as many as possible. There was talk at the FanFest of a possible 'stacking nerf' coming to POS anchoring time. Perhaps this is a precursor of that? - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:02:00 - [29] Right now, I only want two things from POS. Let us dock freighters at them, and let us fuel them up for a month at a time. I hate micro-management. Blog
Auman Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 05/12/2006 11:53:51 Originally by: Dianabolic Weclome to the new era of pos spam. It's a horrible change. It weighs far too much in favour of spam spam spam and in the favour defenders who can't, erm, defend? Horrible, horrible change. It does nothing to promote aggression or assault - they would have been better off fixing the system so that soveriegnty didn't rely on a down time to apply. Diana, if you've got control of someone's space then all this does is add a couple extra days of waiting to finish off the towers, which you'll do anyway, right? But it was already a grind to assualt a system, this change means more grind and/or more POS spam. I don't understand why it can't just become time based and DT doesn't effect sov.

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