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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
79
   |
Posted - 2015.08.04 22:57:18 -
[1] - Quote
Piracy.
Idea.
Problems
Possible exploits
Pirates Pro - con
Hauler/Escort Pro - Con
Questions
Idea.
Angel Modified Entosis link will target the cargo bays of industrial class ships causing some cargo to be ejected.
To be used in hi-sec to avoid CONCORD retribution.
It will open the user up to being attack by escorts / Hi-sec militia.
This could both increase conflict in hi-sec as pirates and hi-sec militia mix it up over industrials.
If it was used instead of ganking the isk drain would be reduced (gank ships, industrials, cargo lost in wrecks).
It would make some escorts possible.
High power slot. fitting similar to Entosis link.
Can only be active on industrial class ships (ships requiring one of the 4 empire industrial skills)
Either (cycle time 60s, range 2km) or (cycle time 300s, range 25km)
Use of the AMEL (Angel modified Entosis Link) will make user suspect. At the end of each cycle some of the cargo in the target ship will fall out in a cargo container that still belongs to the industrial ship. IE anyone else that is not in the industrial ships fleet grabs cargo they will be suspect.
This module requires a full warm-up cycle before beginning to influence targeted ships. (remove I think)
Once activated, this module cannot be deactivated until it completes its current cycle.
While an Angel Modified Entosis Link is active, the fitted ship cannot cloak, warp, jump, dock or receive any form of remote assistance.
Problems
The ship using AMEL will be exposed to attack by other players. It could be used to take 100% the cargo from an industrial instead of part of the cargo being lost when the ship is destroyed. Targets of AMEL can just warp away before the cycle is completed.
Possible exploits
In low/nul sec you web/scram the target and then just keep running a AMEL until all cargo is gone from ship, then blow ship away.
In hi-sec you can keep bumping the freighter till you empty all cargo from ship.
Honey pots run by pirates to target other pirates or hi-sec militia coming to rescue the "AMEL" targeted Industrial
Pirates Pro - con
Pro:
Not losing ships to Concord.
Getting 100% of cargo.
Haulers that keep auto-piloting can be farmed the next time they come though
Usable in all security, not just in .5 to .7 trade routes.
Con:
More open to attack from escorts, hi-Sec Militia, or other pirates.
Ships targeted by AMEL can just warp away. (I guess only Auto-pilot, AFK, and bumped ships are effective targets)
Target can just grab cargo back into cargo hold.
Less tears than ganking.
Hauler/Escort Pro - Con
Pro:
Not losing ships while losing all cargo.
Can call for help from escorts or hi-sec militias.
Con:
Cannot stop AMEL other than jumping away.
Questions
Should it apply to ORE? And if so just to Ore Hold?
Should it apply to capital ships?
Should it apply to all ships?
It would be a way to pull peoples ammo out of ship
Should it apply to deployables?
I think it should not but this is a question that should be asked. Since you can blow deployables to get cargo now.
Should it use Strontium Calthrates fuel?
Lore wise it should be as similar to basic Entosis Link.
Where should it come from?
I would guess BPC from covert research sites.
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 22:57:28 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 22:58:14 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved #2
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
366
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 00:04:01 -
[4] - Quote
So essentially you are garantied risk-free loot from the targeted industrial ship?
Sounds too overpowered to me, and it also sounds like a module that would be abused to the extremes. (To put it mildly)
I am going to say no. |
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 00:13:01 -
[5] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:So essentially you are garantied risk-free loot from the targeted industrial ship?
Sounds too overpowered to me, and it also sounds like a module that would be abused to the extremes. (To put it mildly)
I am going to say no.
trying to make it balanced.
It makes you suspect. you cannot warp while it is running. The target can just warp away.
cycle is 60s and a freighter should warp in under 45s.
Trying to put all the pro/con that people see into the message.
um. what about faction police shooting at the ship using the module?
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
366
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 00:26:40 -
[6] - Quote
Regarding avoidance from retaliation, you should probably have written that the module does not make you avoid punishment from faction police. How else is one supposed to know?
Secondly. It would be regarded as overpowered as well because, not only does the module make the targeted ship eject some of its loot, but if you also kill the target you simply take the entire load. How would that not be completely abused? Imagine 10 ships targeting a freighter at the same time as someone is bumping it out of allignment?
Just a thought, or two. |
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
100
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 00:30:52 -
[7] - Quote
Elfi Wolfe wrote:At the end of each cycle some of the cargo (1-5%) in the target ship will fall out in a cargo container that still belongs to the industrial ship.
I've got one and only one question. How do you handle containers?
Because most of HS transport is done with alts. Which means courier contracts. Which means containers.
- Does 1-5% of a can drop the whole can? (Would be overpowered, and as such, it's never going to happen.)
- Does it scoop out some of the courier package, forcibly failing it? (Would allow griefing to way too large extents, thus not going to happen, again.)
- Does it do nothing? (Then why am i paying for a 50M modules, if being not stupid and doing a simple courier contract render said module useless?)
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 00:37:12 -
[8] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:Elfi Wolfe wrote:At the end of each cycle some of the cargo (1-5%) in the target ship will fall out in a cargo container that still belongs to the industrial ship. I've got one and only one question. How do you handle containers? Because most of HS transport is done with alts. Which means courier contracts. Which means containers.
- Does 1-5% of a can drop the whole can? (Would be overpowered, and as such, it's never going to happen.)
- Does it scoop out some of the courier package, forcibly failing it? (Would allow griefing to way too large extents, thus not going to happen, again.)
- Does it do nothing? (Then why am i paying for a 50M modules, if being not stupid and doing a simple courier contract render said module useless?)
I have that under questions. I'm unsure how that should be.
Would the entire courier package drop. Would nothing of the courier package drop.
Right now I am thinking that courier packages would be protected, but how and how would a scanner know what is courier package and what is not.
I doubt this thread would lead to much of anything, but with other people suggesting ideas there might be an idea here.
Um.. maybe if it hits a container it will take as many cycles until the 1-5% finally hits 100% of that containers size? then that container drops. but then the industrial hauler can just scoop it back up?
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 00:38:59 -
[9] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Regarding avoidance from retaliation, you should probably have written that the module does not make you avoid punishment from faction police. How else is one supposed to know?
Secondly. It would be regarded as overpowered as well because, not only does the module make the targeted ship eject some of its loot, but if you also kill the target you simply take the entire load. How would that not be completely abused? Imagine 10 ships targeting a freighter at the same time as someone is bumping it out of allignment?
Just a thought, or two.
um.. ok only one module can be active on one target and also if the target is bumped the module loses connection and has to restart the cycle?
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
|
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
100
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 00:53:11 -
[10] - Quote
Elfi Wolfe wrote:um.. ok only one module can be active on one target and also if the target is bumped the module loses connection and has to restart the cycle?
How to know if something is bumped? Check if it's moving. So, if target is moving, you can not use your module...? But afk haulers are always moving...
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2339
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 02:06:56 -
[11] - Quote
If you have to put heavy restrictions on a module to make it 'balanced' it's overpowered and shouldn't be made in the first place.
Plain and simple, this is a joke module and gankers paradise. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
Get Off My Lawn
1500
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 03:43:41 -
[12] - Quote
Sometimes it's best to just ignore a thread, pretend it is a dead whale carcass, and hope that it drops to the ocean floor to be eaten by by the worms. If you keep it up near the surface, it just stinks more and more. Let it be thus with this thread.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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SecretService
Secret Services
3
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 16:29:37 -
[13] - Quote
You forget two things when you consider faction police:
#1 Bumping - the hauler
#2 Logistics - tanking pretty much anything with enough of them. instead of 20 Catalysts, you would have 20 Guardians...
With these 2 you can institute blockade in any hisec system you want. Current risk in Niarja or Uedama would be a joke compared to this. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
327
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 17:29:10 -
[14] - Quote
uhhhhh, we like things being blown up, as they currently are in suicide ganking! - item destruction is good for the iskonomy
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 23:37:16 -
[15] - Quote
SecretService wrote:You forget two things when you consider faction police:
#1 Bumping - the hauler
#2 Logistics - tanking pretty much anything with enough of them. instead of 20 Catalysts, you would have 20 Guardians...
With these 2 you can institute blockade in any hisec system you want. Current risk in Niarja or Uedama would be a joke compared to this.
I was thinking the escorts or hi-sec militia would be able to fight the pirates.
But you are right, they can just get enough to tank anything. Bump till the person logged, then loot the ship.
But then what they do now is just bump till they get enough, then suicide kill it.
And the attempts to adjust this will.. well as one person put it if you have to put in restrictions then the modules may be overpowered to begin with.
Oh well I do not care if it is made or not, was just an idea to try and be something other than bump and suicide gank.
if it is too good then it will be used, if not good enough then suicide ganks will be used.
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 23:38:22 -
[16] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:If you have to put heavy restrictions on a module to make it 'balanced' it's overpowered and shouldn't be made in the first place.
Good point, thank you for pointing it out.
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 07:54:34 -
[17] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:Elfi Wolfe wrote:um.. ok only one module can be active on one target and also if the target is bumped the module loses connection and has to restart the cycle?
How to know if something is bumped? Check if it's moving. So, if target is moving, you can not use your module...? But afk haulers are always moving...
Check if it's moving at greater than maximum speed, or if the ship's actual acceleration exceeds the ship's capabilities.
A signature :o
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2606
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 11:32:31 -
[18] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Check if it's moving at greater than maximum speed, or if the ship's actual acceleration exceeds the ship's capabilities.
I do that when i undock 
and not all bumps will move you beyond the bumped ships max speed/accel, it just has to be in a direction you dont want to go.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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