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Selinate
149
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
Well since they've still failed to lower the price of the clothes in the NeX to any reasonable level, I really could not care less if it's removed or not... |
Psychophantic
176
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 02:30:00 -
[62] - Quote
Leave nex store alone.
WiS is scrapped and no more clothes are being developed.
But thats just not enough. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
SRS.
73
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Quote:they should allow the people who did purchase stuff to keep their stuff and never release it again.
I like the idea of WiS and character customization, I am not advocating getting rid of that. Just because the nex is gone, doesn't mean everything in it should be gone.
Quote:You know removing the nex is like uninstalling a highway you just built.
Nobody is advocating getting rid of the items in the nex.
The analogy would go more like this: Ignore almost all tax payer requests for two years, build a highway through their houses, then charge you money for using it.
I'm not advocating for WiS or the nex items to go away, I'm advocating for the distribution method (NeX) to go away, and be replaced by actual gameplay. For example, rare drops off faction ships and officers, lp stores, rare mission drops in low/null?, faction warfare related?, there are a lot of better places for that stuff. |
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Quote:they should allow the people who did purchase stuff to keep their stuff and never release it again. I like the idea of WiS and character customization, I am not advocating getting rid of that. Just because the next is gone, doesn't mean everything in it should be gone. Quote:You know removing the nex is like uninstalling a highway you just built. Nobody is advocating getting rid of the items in the nex. The analogy would go more like this: Ignore almost all tax payer requests for two years, build a highway through their houses, then charge you money for using it. I'm not advocating for WiS or the nex items to go away, I'm advocating for the distribution method (NeX) to go away, and be replaced by actual gameplay. For example, rare drops off faction ships and officers, lp stores, rare mission drops in low/null?, faction warfare related?, there are a lot of better places for that stuff.
Being able to get vanity items from actual gameplay is something I'd personally love to see happen. But, if they make it where any joe can get the monocle, then it would cheapen the sentimental value it would otherwise have and I'm sure someone out there would be mad about it. |
Dun'Gal
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 02:50:00 -
[65] - Quote
If I may; sometimes when donating to a charity cause one is given a "token gift" in recognition of the donation, whether its a nice pen, cuff-links, a basket of fruit, or what have you, it's generally based upon the ammount donated.
Look at the NeX in a similar manner. Ie. CCP is having difficulties paying the bills, those who can afford to are making "donations" to the company that's produced the game we all love and as a thank you, CCP is giving those people a "token gift" in the form of a virtual t-shirt, shoes, goggles, or what have you.
Thank you to everyone who has bought items in the NeX so that CCP can continue developing the game I love to play.
/shrugs |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
556
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 02:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Unfourtunately what the tax payers didnt see is all the infastructure work that went into building that highway, All the concrete factoires, the trucks and the sort, and those places are now making other roads better.
All they saw was this shiney highway that was going to nowhere yet. There are possible desitnations along the way but it ran out of time and budget to get there.
However the government is going to refuse to shut down the rebuilt concrete factories, remove the new tools the workers used to build the highway with, and purposly go back and put holes in the road that they just patched in this recent expansion.
Project Carbon was something they started 18 months ago. Its one reason why every expansion was a pure 'addon' and not a 'revisit' becuase they where revisitng assesing and rebuilding it internally so that when it was added on nothing was amiss, but everything about it was understood on how to fix it better. It be like replacing a water pipe in one road and not shutting off power the entire city.
Now the infrastructre is remapped out, understood, and known they can now confindently go in replace and update failing areas and leave entirely unrelated things alone when they go about doing it.
6 years of neglect of a real rewrite fixed in 18 months, I say is an amazing acomplishment and in a matter of a few weeks you saw what it has done so far.
Core Teams probably didnt work too much on the nex/incarna they where probably putting in the final finishing touches on the Carbon Project which seems to be still ongoing in some areas but its to the point they can now screw around with inventories again. Resources that where probably eaten up the most wast tech artist, networking, directors and UI design rest of the teams that are more concerned with databases and spread sheets in space where probably more worried about the boat sinking on them as they removed a rotting panel from a boat they where in and quickly replacing it with another one and bailing out water at the same time.
Also you dont throw a couple million dollars away these days, the economy cant support such in europe, specialy with the euro almost on schedule to fall apart.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
308
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP just needs to balance the nex store with a good ratio of aurum stuff to free stuff.
Say a khaki jacket is free, but if you want the one in hot pink with the GB to hello kitty logo on it, then you got to pay. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
SRS.
73
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 03:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
Quote:if they make it where any joe can get the monocle, then it would cheapen the sentimental value it would otherwise have and I'm sure someone out there would be mad about it.
I agree... not that the monocle is actually expensive, it's only 1 bil on the market right now in jita. Compare that to good officer gear at 5+ bil per mod (and those can get blown up!), pretty cheap. Price should be determined by supply and demand, just like everything else in the game. Sure, we should have high end items.
Quote:CCP is having difficulties paying the bills, those who can afford to are making "donations" to the company
Not sure if troll... but i'll bite anyway. CCP was having trouble funding the development of two whole other games while ignoring Eve as much as they could. That poor decision caught up with them and the players forced them to finally make some basic changes, by kicking them where it matters *in the wallet*.
That's not theory crafting, it's basically what CCP said themselves, if you have payed the slightest attention the last few months.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
557
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Posted - 2011.12.09 03:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
Anyways Ill spill my suggestion again.
1 Convert all current Nex Items into Clothing Contracts, Contracts bascially state an immortal supply of said item.
2 Provide Blueprints at the same prices. They are researchable for various traits such as color or material length. They'll require PI items and build batches at a time to be competiive against item 3.
3 Regular clothing items be added to nex at 1/10th the price of contracts. These are destroyable on death.
4 Add closest to CQs, allow pilots to save clothing outfits like ship fittings.
Overall the above would probaby be cheaper than trying to recoup 18 month delete.
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49125
Haemus Frigidus
7
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Posted - 2011.12.09 05:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:
Also, the "unsub crisis" was not a result of that one reason you are giving,
it was the result of a whole lot of things, INCLUDING the reason you are giving
or INCLUDING the fear of what could happen ... EvE going f2p/p2win.
Indeed. I myself have returned very recently from two years absence prompted (mostly) by the appearance of AUR on my interface. Hopefully many more of the lost return.
If MT (and its assests) can be financially sustainable and independent from all other EVE assets... cool.
If it can't ... frankly it deserves to be disassembled and seeded into actual gameplay.
-v- |
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
145
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 05:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:You know removing the nex is like uninstalling a highway you just built.
Expensive project and the tax payers are not going to be happier that you owe them an additional 18 months of development now.
Oh the irony of what you are saying. You know that they scrapped Ambulation even though they are quoted in an interview from 2006 saying it was about 50% complete.
Makes your point pretty moot, concidering at Fanfest in 2008 players were shown a working demo of Ambulation and then they virtually completely scrapped everything. That's a hell of a lot more work that CCP flushed down the toilet than creating a few clothes and the NeX Store isn't it.
So where was the tax payer benefit for all that work following your analogy.
As it was originally conceived with Ambulation CCP has an opportunity to enhance the gameplay of EVE in a more meaningful way by delivering those NeX items to players via industry and LP rewards, etc. It would show that they truly care about the integrity of the game moving forward.
Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna.
Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
560
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 08:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
As a Tax Payer I certinaly didnt want my money going to the people who dont want earn it the right way.
Or bail out banks.
Or pay corrupt politicans.
Or that health care insurance plan (which means you still pay its nowhere near free)
So now that I think of it, Tax payer analogy is either a really good analogy or a really bad one, depends which side on the fence you want to sit on.
What happened to 2008 stuff? Possibly networking guys saying no go, technical artists saying no go, game developers saying no go. The list goes on and until ccp dev drops something to us we wont know what happened to all that.
I will say this art assest looka hell lot different and better than previous incanraions so I think the art department is to blame.
Either way NeX store has a very restrained ways it can go and cant go. Giving players the ability to manufacture stuff from her inventory can easily be defined by Pay to Win tinfoil haters.
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Needa3
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
20
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Posted - 2011.12.09 08:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
No dev reply yet and we are on page four.
The quicker that bullshit AUR and NEx stuff is going to be removed the happier I'll be |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
560
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 08:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
You could like, Ignore it like some people who ignore WH exists, or Incursions exists or PI exists, or mining exists or for some people who would love nothing more than to have No Graphics exist (yes they're out there and they will not be satisifed until every picture in eve is removed)
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Halcyon Ingenium
Warm Holes
50
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Posted - 2011.12.09 08:56:00 -
[75] - Quote
I think it is funny that CCP don't realize that if they halved the aurum cost of all the things in the NeX they would likely make the money they were hoping they could make. But they won't, they're Icelanders, they'd rather strike their cocks with a giant hammer then admit they overpriced digital goods. Oh the comedy that is humanity.
People say things like: "Oh, you make so much money. What do you need any more for?"
Well, actually, *****, I never asked for your opinion. I'll let you know when I have enough money.
-Gene Simmons |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags
Care Factor
30
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 09:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
WIS is not scrapped nor should it be. I'm not really into WIS but it's not a bad concept. The implementation was poor.
The NEX was almost the definition of bad implementation. The prices are too high and I think the clothes are just copied from the 1978 JC Penny's clothes line. NEX simply is the wrong idea for EVE.
Vanity items are a good idea though since human nature proves that people like fancy stuff. This could be boots or it could be paint but people will get them. They just should be cheaper and not require your credit card.
The NEX should go though.I don't think there's really any case to keep it. They'll get to use it in Dust but its designed for it. |
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 09:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ever since Plex were on the market there was a microtransaction part in this game, for years now.
The more real life cash you put into Plex the more ingame currency you had and thus you were able to afford better ships/modules/munition/chars and so on.
Why was that okay, but not using the same money for clothing?
The way it is NOW is perfectly okay. The only mistake was changing microtransactions into macrotransaction (eg 80$ monocle). |
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 09:17:00 -
[78] - Quote
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:I think it is funny that CCP don't realize that if they halved the aurum cost of all the things in the NeX they would likely make the money they were hoping they could make. But they won't, they're Icelanders, they'd rather strike their cocks with a giant hammer then admit they overpriced digital goods. Oh the comedy that is humanity.
Its even more stupid. They began to give away free Aurum by the thousands AND THUS cutting the market prices for most NEX items by 9/10. That was the most rediculous and unrewarding step in balancing the clothing prices, but then again; got the stuff I liked for free rather than paying CCP for it... |
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
145
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 09:42:00 -
[79] - Quote
Zevina wrote:Halcyon Ingenium wrote:I think it is funny that CCP don't realize that if they halved the aurum cost of all the things in the NeX they would likely make the money they were hoping they could make. But they won't, they're Icelanders, they'd rather strike their cocks with a giant hammer then admit they overpriced digital goods. Oh the comedy that is humanity. Its even more stupid. They began to give away free Aurum by the thousands AND THUS cutting the market prices for most NEX items by 9/10. That was the most rediculous and unrewarding step in balancing the clothing prices, but then again; got the stuff I liked for free rather than paying CCP for it...
It's a marketing strategy, the problem for CCP is many players of EVE are not teenagers and understand the process being applied. Give some away for free in an attempt to get people used to using it.
Have you never heard the term for drug dealers hooking new addicts ... "the first hit is free". It is this approach that lead to the free Aurum.
Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna.
Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
560
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 15:42:00 -
[80] - Quote
I am no market analyst but the I am quite sure that eve percentage wise is very balanced in terms of users. From the 12 yos that got tired of wow to mr retried I have nothing better to dos. Where in wow its usually leaning in one direction majority of the time.
Either way its a pertty serious cross roads for the NEX right now, You got the one road we dont want to take the Pay to Win Road. However other more appealing roads while not named such may take us to the same tonw. Then the road to the golden city is potentialy anywhere off in any other direction. However chances are well wind up in halfway town. Halfway awsome but always wanitng a bit more.
Next are the implied costs. To remove the nex store would be easy these days, before ****** I can see destroying entire databases to remove it so acutal direct cost to remove is minimal. What it is going to cost is the investment debt all the money spent into making incarna then the advertising involved may not be paid off yet and writing it off at this moment can look very bad for prospective future partners. Though these are speculative costs they can be felt if toyed with.
To remove the NeX wont be as harmful but a total redaction of an old feature that isnt obsured or broken yet by another system can have some pertty serious concequence like the old static dungeons being moved into movable dungeons is an example of replacment. If the old nex where to be removed there has to be something similar to replace it or there be a serious player fall out that would be nearly as bad as one or two jita riots.
However the costs of moving foward are much less than they where 18 months ago that is for sure. With foundation down the only thing left to do is get multiplayer working and everything else is assests. WIth the clothes not adding anything to the game cost of delivery and the ability for the nex to pull up the cost of montly deliver from the usual 14$ a month a 15$ a month in effect would almost equal almost another 3000 paying subs by my rough estimates. Though the raising the average consumer pay per month by a whole dollar I belive is a bit far fetched to delcare without any solid evidence and with no QEN or AEN there isnt a way for me to determine what efect the NeX is causing in artifical additional subs.
Then there is the gain factor. The gain factor is measured by a new players willingness to stay. This isnt the same as a bitter vet staying thats static. Overall and eventually featuers like the nex are going to continue to gain new subscribers and in a perfect world would surpass the loss factor or the bitter vets that actually did call it quits for good. Luckily the thing abotu eve is its breaking rules in mmo, its going places no other mmo dares and this is a draw its a well known draw which is why eve has for the longest time hasnt acutally peaked yet and this shabkle last two expansions may only be a slight dent in the growth and more players will be joining us this summer to maximise thier dust 514 experince if you asked for my prediction we havent hit our peak yet as the second most popular pay by the month game catagory.
Unlike the first pay by month game which has lost 10% of their uses lately and a steady drop continues as players over there are upset over the amount of 'content' despite how fast the developers are throwing down addtional tracks on the roller costers.
Im sorry if the above doesnt makes sense, but its what I would say if there was a conversation in person.
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March rabbit
Ganse
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
48
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Let me give you an example. Remember the T2 blueprint / BoB scandal? I didn't play the game back then, but I did read about it on slashdot. Back then I was actually thinking about joining the game, I saw the ad's, the game looked like something I might like. However when I read about how gm's were giving certain groups special treatment, even going so far as spawning important items for those players, I was like "Sqrew that!" and I didn't subscribe, it wouldn't be another two years before I finally gave it a try.
Thing's like that are very hard to quantify, and that's the case with the nex.
well. you are tooooo self-oriented you know?
Maybe you should extend your world outside yourself? Then you will not connect anything unnecessary to you personal and will actually enjoy games and stuff.
That said: your scandal with t2 bpos and bob would not bother me at all if i found new interesting game. The same is with Nex. It is simple: why should i care about parts of a stuff which don't affect me personally?
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Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
KUGUTSUMEN.
297
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Purpose of NeX: to reduce PLEX liabilities in CCP's books.
Cost of removing NeX: loss of presumed (uncalculable) ROI (i.e. no reduction in liabilities).
I know this is a old quote but I still find this reasoning absolute bullshit. If CCP really had a concern for Plex liabilities enough to introduce something like NeX, then why do they keep having promotions where CCP SEEDS Plexes into the market. It completely contradicts the purpose.
A reason to get rid of NeX is simply because it can actually drive people AWAY from the game or even trying the game. When you pay a monthly sub you expect to get everything included available to you without paying extra. The idea of having a hybrid system makes the game seem cheap and greedy and does make people look at it differently. Especially when they see Eve being a Sub+MT based MMO. Granted the whole argument "you can grind isk for it" is beside the point since it removes from the "player driven economy aspect" as well as puts a artificial control on the price.
CCP in all honesty should cut their losses and scrap NeX. Create BPC/BPOs on the market for players to be able to create the items and add the raw into PI. Theres no reason to continue this laughing stock that is NeX that makes Eve players look like wanna be barbie's in space. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
560
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:26:00 -
[83] - Quote
Well Let me play the other side then.
CCP needs money how are you going to accomplish this?
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Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
KUGUTSUMEN.
297
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:33:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:Well Let me play the other side then.
CCP needs money how are you going to accomplish this?
Incarna and MTs obviously weren't the answer. So how about they continue the coarse and actually make Eve's main selling point better(you know spaceships?) and not try to milk its player base.
Edit: Also don't take my wording as being a smartass towards you Nova. I still <3 u
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
16
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Posted - 2011.12.09 16:36:00 -
[85] - Quote
eve is serious busniess as it is, it doesnt need features just because all the other kids are doing it.
i remeber when playing eve was more of an exclusive club, than just another mmo.
OP is right on the money .... ;) |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
560
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:46:00 -
[86] - Quote
None taken at least you took the comment seriously enough unlike some other folks albit to blind for thier own good and contribute little to the overall thought process.
Well I am going to say the old course was taking too long to get somewhere, I'm sure some of the folks in eve felt the same way and needed more funding for other projects such as Dust 514 which in itself may be breaking rules of MMOFPS and posisbly throw the genere into the spot light as a serious catagory.
NeX was an extremly horrid interpintation of microtransaction. However I will give them props for making them market items and not making plex unsellable anymore that be horrid to force everyone to buy clothes to sell in order to get isk this would have been the absolute worst way to go short of pay to win road.
Now the pay to win road would resulted in alot of chash quick, but in the end youll get the loss factor as bittervets and gain factor goes into the negatives with newer players mostly stemming from "why play richer people are going to win over me and im just a poor boy from a poor familily."
Another option would been prenium accounts, This usually marks the decline in several mmos into obscurity. Becuase what normally follows prenium accounts is free accounts and eve doenst support that play style too well as observed with trial accounts.
So ill interate it again I think the NeX should get some immediate price fixes then put on backburner with incarna when stuff gets done just add it in.
Also the character customization is a selling point in alot of games these days. Eve has one of the most amazing character creators in an mmo even against single player games its pertty much out there. While this may little to no effect on older players whom have only seen themselves in thier ships and nowhere else. Its something newer players can associate with. If somone where to pull the data I am sure youll see a stark difference between newer and older players selection of hanger bay view and captains quaters.
I am all for the retiention of new loyal players in the game increasing the amount of things to do and pay isk for even a plex for would only help eve further making it the best sci fi simulator eventually. I too would like to visit a city on the ground, Glass Boulvard comes to mind.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
561
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Posted - 2011.12.09 17:06:00 -
[87] - Quote
I wonder if the OP is seriously reading the responses here and weighing in her thoughts.
Ill have to admit this is one of my worst discussions as I didnt flow the conversation enough into places and looped back around to point 1. Bleh.
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Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
KUGUTSUMEN.
299
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
Honestly I do agree that WiS in itself is good for Eve(Incarna is not WiS). However the way it was implemented and rushed was done so horribly wrong. They honestly should have released Ambulation 2-3 years ago to attract those who wanted some form of immersion or connection with their pilot. During that time they could develop Carbon/Incarna and upgrade Ambulation when its done and ready, which I honestly believe won't be until 1-2 years from now. That most likely would have spurred enough interest into the game that the financial issues resulting in the addition of NeX wouldn't have been there. Ofc this is all in hindsight and in the past.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
561
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
Hmm true they should have shoved much more effort into incarna, IE 4 quaters then, and crucible would have opened a featureless multiplayer interior at least, then launched the nex next expanison with more options on eveyrthing.
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Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
SRS.
86
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Posted - 2011.12.09 23:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Quote:I wonder if the OP is seriously reading the responses here and weighing in her thoughts.
Yup, though I have to work and sleep, etc, so cannot comment all the time :)
Quote:Now the pay to win road would resulted in alot of chash quick, but in the end youll get the loss factor as bittervets and gain factor goes into the negatives with newer players mostly stemming from "why play richer people are going to win over me and im just a poor boy from a poor familily."
People oppose micro-transactions not out of some hate for rich people having an advantage. After all, people can buy characters and plex right now and get whatever they want in game. Yet I'm not against that.
We are against microtransactions because they are a direct assault on Eve's basic gameplay.
Quote:Honestly I do agree that WiS in itself is good for Eve
So do I, It's unfortunate that people read the OP and thought I was somehow advocating for the removal or discontinuation of WiS. I like the idea, I think ambulation should be a part of EvE. FiS is imo more important of course, and CCP has a lot more work to do on FiS. However I certainly support future work on WiS as well, I simply want it to be a positive addition to EvE, and not a money grab that damages the total experience and immersion of the game.
Quote:CCP needs money how are you going to accomplish this?
CCP needs more money if they plan on developing 2 other games in parallel to EvE. So they tried this money grab and the players rightfully kicked them in the nuts for it (I personally canceled two accounts over it). Realizing their current business plan was untenable they scaled way back, put the vampire game mostly on hold, and refocused on EvE which they had been ignoring for the last couple years.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm on CCP's side, I'm a capitalist, I have no problem whatsoever with CCP developing other games, and I hope that they are successful with them. However you must satisfy your customer base, they weren't doing that.
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