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Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:38:00 - [1] i've been doing Smuggler Interception. the only mission that i have found to date that has salvageable rig components in somewhat of a quantity. post kali release it had 44 to 52 rig components in 11 differant types. post patch dec. 5, 2006 it now has same 44 rig components but of only 6 types.. post kali for loot it had avg of 1000 m3's post patch dec.5,2006 it has 372 m3's of loot the bs's did give what i could see 3 types of rig components,now your lucky to get 1. the other rats used to give what i'd call a fair amount of loot and now most don't give loot at all, completely removed loot. i just don't get it i guess, why does ccp keep reducing what we can earn. this is only causing me more time to biuld. and just how long should it take for a player to get to where he has enough to compete. i have multiple accounts and need them to make a small amount these days. if you have 1 account.. there is no way you can make a fair amount of isk in game in a reasonable time frame.. and i suggest anywhere from 8 to 10 months and maybe a year to be at that lvl. my main still can't afford cap ship skills let alone the cap ships and mods.. i have nothing against those that are in 0.0 ,they have plenty out there to do what they want to do in eve.. most empire corps belong to 0.0 alliances. and i you here is 0.0 complaining about empire.. i say your only hurting your own alliances. why do 0.0 players even care about whats going on in empire.they have what i'd say is a fair amount of isk making capabilities in 0.0. so why keep empire poor.. if empire was able to make more.. i'd realy think more players would eventually go out to 0.0.. they would be able to rebuild from any losses. cuz they could afford it,, it's as simple as that. i am a pvp'er from Freelancer. at one time a former number 1 in all freelancer servers in the world in kills.it was fun for 1 reason 1: making money to buy what ever you wanted was Not to time consuming and difficult i would pvp here in eve IF i could make isk in large enough amounts so i could fly what i wanted and do what i wanted when i wanted too. and not have it take too long.. i'm not suggesting that it take 1 day.. i am suggesting that a top empire mission runner should be able to make 1 billion a month,, playing 4 hours a day.. you want balance, the balance comes from what does a 0.0 player make if he puts in the same 4 hours of hard grinding like we mission runners in empire MUST DO i have former corp m8 now in 0.0 alliances and friends from freelancer out there too. they say you can mine at leats 50 million an hour. that amounts to 6 billion in 1 month.. they also say you can rat and make an avg of 300 million an hour,,i believe this. why? you figure out how much 0.0 must mine and from pos's to build all the ships and mods they loose whe in combat, not to mention all the cap ships,, and the cost of all those bpo's. i suggest if you want more players out in 0.0. then roll back the reductions in empire missions. few will go to 0.0 and stay out there if there broke when they go out there. total players in 0.0 have not increased, this is fact,,, WHY total players have not increased in low sec,this is fact.. WHY CCP has taken a direction to get results.. this has failed completly. i say reverse course and give back ,, at least give it a try.. your current dirction has failed complety
Kharakan Amarr New World Disorders	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:41:00 - [2] My poor eyes Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Hunter C8 Caldari Red Storm Vendetta	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:45:00 - [3] Praying for a kind, generous translator to help me out so I don't have to read the numerous grammatic errors, not fun to read ------- Red Storm Vendetta Recruiting!
Andargor theWise Disbelievers of Fate The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Hunter C8 Praying for a kind, generous translator to help me out so I don't have to read the numerous grammatic errors, not fun to read Translation: "Salvaging is pre-nerfed, and loot has been nerfed after patch. Me not happy. CCP please fix." - Got grief?
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:48:00 - [5] he wants more cash for less effort he's using salvaging as an example, which is kinda weird, since the prices of rigs are yet to be determined and if they take less effort to make, they'll be cheaper.
000Hunter000 Gallente The Lookers	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:49:00 - [6] well ccp should stop their current attempts on forcing people to go to low sec and 0.0 and rethink their strategy impo. They have been trying now for years and always have failed, i even fear that if they nerf hi sec too much cause of their stubborness there gonna start losing players. Only thing that would make low sec more populated is if, the risk vs reward threshhold goes down (aka less risk and more reward) and yes i realize that to a lot of people this is an abomination and i'm not expecting it to become carebear country, but this is how it is. 0.0 and low sec goers can whine all they want, this is a simple fact, if u don't believe me, open your map and see where the big bright spots are please don't flame me for this one, cuz i'm not saying i personally would want this (except for the part where ccp needs to rethink their strategy on how to populate low sec) just stating a few obvious things. Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Hunter C8 Praying for a kind, generous translator to help me out so I don't have to read the numerous grammatic errors, not fun to read whinge whinge, giev moar isk, i will cut my wrists and quit eve if i don't get what i want. in other words, he wants to work less for getting more... but if he hadn't noticed, the salvaged mods are an ADDITION to normal loot.. so he's getting extra already, and he wants more. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook Brainiac of Doomcraft
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:57:00 - [8] some of you don't read to well,, i posted numbers to what you got after kali. and now after patch yesterday the rig components and loot was fine after kali i'm complaining now cuz it's been nerfed. i was TOTALY HAPPY WITH THE AMOUNT OF RIG COMPONENTS SUNDAY, AND LOOT.. i'm not happy post patch tuesday
Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Jaguar Dragon some of you don't read to well,, i posted numbers to what you got after kali. and now after patch yesterday the rig components and loot was fine after kali i'm complaining now cuz it's been nerfed. i was TOTALY HAPPY WITH THE AMOUNT OF RIG COMPONENTS SUNDAY, AND LOOT.. i'm not happy post patch tuesday maybe you didn't read closely as well.. you failed to realise that the rig loot is an EXTRA loot you're getting.. I've hardly seen the normal drops from npcs change from normal.. so by normal looting you still get a decent amount of money, nothing nerfed -too- bad.. and with salvaging, ESPECIALLY with the current prices.. you're digging into a gold mine. in the time it's taken you to post those two threads, and read the rest.. you could have made 10m from rig salvage.... now go back to work, before I'll call in the local amarrian slaver club to get you back to work -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook Brainiac of Doomcraft
QVCatullus Gallente Red Eclipse Inc. The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Estel Arador he wants more cash for less effort he's using salvaging as an example, which is kinda weird, since the prices of rigs are yet to be determined and if they take less effort to make, they'll be cheaper. The thing about this argument is that it's only half thought-through. Sure, the easier rigs are to make and the more common they are, the cheaper they will be. But restricting the supply as sharply as has happened so far from the scarcity of salvage components will NOT make the few rigs that are built go to infinitely high prices. The demand for them is still static, because they only offer so much benefit in-game. If rigs can offer me such and such a bonus, which many players can get instead by using T2/faction/officer mods, or by flying a more expensive ship, and the rig would cost several times as much as using one of these alternatives, the market will not support that price. At unreasonably high prices for rigs, the number of players who have the money and inclination will get very small (eventually reaching 0) and the amount of money that there is in the rigs market will get very small, making such a profession unmarketable. The price of rigs WILL remain far too high at the current rate, as many people have pointed out. If it takes literally weeks of play to assemble enough components to make a rig, then no one will sell the components or a rig that they make from the components for less than their weeks of effort were worth. Some estimations suggest that the working price for rigs will outpace the price for many T1 ships, which will of course limit sales. If no one is willing to pay a fair market value for the time the salvagers put into their work, they won't sell any rigs and they'll lose the effort they put into making them. How precisely, then, is it 'good' for the salvagers that the supply of the components that they rely on is so limited? Granted, if components were limited because they were only available to one or two players and they could monopolize the supply, they would stand to make an enormous amount of money. But there is no monopoly at all the way things stand -- any character with 2 level III prereqs and enough cash to slap salvagers on a destroyer can enter the very shallow salvage market. That suggests that the impact of rigs on the game will be more or less nil, which seems like a waste with all the effort that went into coding them in (and the irritation that the new wreck system has caused among PvE'ers .)
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:09:00 - [11] Edited by: Shemar on 06/12/2006 18:09:42 Looting: Yes it's been nerfed. CCP is working on fixing the functional nerf. Whethere or not the actual amount of loot has been nerfed, it is still debatable. Salvaging: Way too early to tell. Let's give the market a chance to work. Another note on salvaging: It's a new thing. If it does not work for you find something that works. Just because CCP introduced a new way of making money does not mean they are obligated to make it as profitable as other professions. It takes less than a week of training to be as good at is as you can get. Miners and missions runners and NPC hunters and many other professions need training for months before they can make a decent income. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Dumus Silver Service	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: Jaguar Dragon some of you don't read to well,, i posted numbers to what you got after kali. and now after patch yesterday the rig components and loot was fine after kali i'm complaining now cuz it's been nerfed. i was TOTALY HAPPY WITH THE AMOUNT OF RIG COMPONENTS SUNDAY, AND LOOT.. i'm not happy post patch tuesday maybe you didn't read closely as well.. you failed to realise that the rig loot is an EXTRA loot you're getting.. I've hardly seen the normal drops from npcs change from normal.. so by normal looting you still get a decent amount of money, nothing nerfed -too- bad.. and with salvaging, ESPECIALLY with the current prices.. you're digging into a gold mine. in the time it's taken you to post those two threads, and read the rest.. you could have made 10m from rig salvage.... now go back to work, before I'll call in the local amarrian slaver club to get you back to work I am so getting sick of trolls like you! You aint done that many missions then cos they have changed. I did a level three yesturday and go two types of ammo and some crappy low end loot. CCP have nerfed it from what I can tell Now back under your bridge unless you want reasoned discussion without the insults. 3Or go play counterstrike with your buddies. -Dumus-
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:19:00 - [13] about the cash thing. the amount of cash in eve needs reducing tbh there's way too many rich ppl about. if u could make enough isk for capital ship skills and the ships so far into the game they would be way too common. they're supposed to be something special that only a small amount of eve can have that's the whole idea of expensive things. DE
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:25:00 - [14] thats correct,, as ccp has reduced the amount you make in empire since cold war is dramatic. HOWEVER: the cost of skills ,mods, ships and such has not been reduced. hence, we need to make more than we do now ,cuz we can't afford the cap ship skills alone, let alone the cap ships and mods..
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Jaguar Dragon thats correct,, as ccp has reduced the amount you make in empire since cold war is dramatic. HOWEVER: the cost of skills ,mods, ships and such has not been reduced. hence, we need to make more than we do now ,cuz we can't afford the cap ship skills alone, let alone the cap ships and mods.. Well imo that's good. i worked hard over 3 years to have the kind of financial backing to buy a carrier and skills and other pretty things. i don't want someone to be able to buy the same after 6 months to a year or there's no reward for long term players. so imo they fixed it well DE
Mortuus Minmatar Just-fun Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:35:00 - [16] Oh noes, no more easily made infinite cash! They could rebuff high sec missions, IF they make it so CONCORD has to to scan out the people killing mission runners in their missions. Then you have risk vs reward, and that is good. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:35:00 - [17] it took you 3 years to afford a carrier? serious? what you play 1 hr a week or something?
Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Dumus Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: Jaguar Dragon some of you don't read to well,, i posted numbers to what you got after kali. and now after patch yesterday the rig components and loot was fine after kali i'm complaining now cuz it's been nerfed. i was TOTALY HAPPY WITH THE AMOUNT OF RIG COMPONENTS SUNDAY, AND LOOT.. i'm not happy post patch tuesday maybe you didn't read closely as well.. you failed to realise that the rig loot is an EXTRA loot you're getting.. I've hardly seen the normal drops from npcs change from normal.. so by normal looting you still get a decent amount of money, nothing nerfed -too- bad.. and with salvaging, ESPECIALLY with the current prices.. you're digging into a gold mine. in the time it's taken you to post those two threads, and read the rest.. you could have made 10m from rig salvage.... now go back to work, before I'll call in the local amarrian slaver club to get you back to work I am so getting sick of trolls like you! You aint done that many missions then cos they have changed. I did a level three yesturday and go two types of ammo and some crappy low end loot. CCP have nerfed it from what I can tell Now back under your bridge unless you want reasoned discussion without the insults. 3Or go play counterstrike with your buddies. no, you're right, i don't -just- do missions.. i rat.. i (try to) kill people who are annoying me, i trade and I mine... and i have yet to notice any real change to my cashflow due to things being nerfed enough to cause a problem for when my next ship blows up.. the fact remains, risk vs reward.. missions nowadays have barely any risk, and as such will be crap for money, and any nerf will be a 'zomg nerf noooo' one .. lowsec/0.0 ratting, and even pvp has more risk.. and as such have more rewards.. in this case in the form of more rig components and more loot.. /me trolls off to his bridge with his band of exotic dancers. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook Brainiac of Doomcraft
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:39:00 - [19] well i'm in empire space and have been in eve for nearly 2 years with multiple accounts for along time,, I CAN'T afford the cap ship skills or cap ship mods or the cap ship it self. and i play for over 8 hours a day. honestly. i'm flat out tierd of the grind. cuz thats what is required in empire to make billions and many hours every day.. the avg player doesn't do that..i have and do not have no where near enough to risk pvping in a cap ship. question ? do 0.0 alliances prefer there NEW members coming from empire to be poor or what? i would think a good 0.0 alliance would prefer players to have alot of isk,, they could afford to pvp and take the losses. my opinion
Arii Smith	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:41:00 - [20] Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Jaguar Dragon thats correct,, as ccp has reduced the amount you make in empire since cold war is dramatic. HOWEVER: the cost of skills ,mods, ships and such has not been reduced. hence, we need to make more than we do now ,cuz we can't afford the cap ship skills alone, let alone the cap ships and mods.. Well imo that's good. i worked hard over 3 years to have the kind of financial backing to buy a carrier and skills and other pretty things. i don't want someone to be able to buy the same after 6 months to a year or there's no reward for long term players. so imo they fixed it well DE Since when was "I got mine" a balance strategy worth pursuing? I am ****ed that my friend is going to have his learning skills done in a few weeks, while mine took two months (he just subbed, I subbed two months ago). However I see why CCP changed it so from an impersonal point of view they did the right thing. They got a new subscriber and he is having fun, whereas I stayed subbed because I saw the potential for fun, I did not log in for two months and had my corp pay for my learning skills...
Hohenheim OfLight Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:46:00 - [21] Bah stop you wining I mind yes thats right mind the mins every last on of them for my cap ship my self, yes i got a few nice donnations here and there, peopel called me mad but after 3 months off mining i had all i needed then i ran lvl3's yes lvl3's not 4's for 4 months solid to get the isk to buy the skills. I had to chars in indys in a 0.1 afk mining trit every day while iw as at work i played eve from one i got in at 6 till went i went to bed at 12. Any one can do that and any one can put the effort in stop watting for ccp to give you every thing on a plate and go out and take it. You just have to be willing to put the effort in your self. ---------------------------------------------- Gone but not forgotten
Cleopatrra Gallente Swag Co.	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:01:00 - [22] hey before you guys say anythign about poliferation of cap ships have any of you looked into the new regions they opened up. They are designed for one reason alone. to get more mins out there to get more ships built. its ccps way of sparking conflict and making shure the conflict can sustain its self. so dont say there tryen to take cap ships away. if any thing there trying to get more and more of them out there and into the front lines. also in reguards to the missions. They have really changed them alot. A few of them are a whole lot tougher. Dont even drop 20% of the loot they used to pre kali, and i have my buddie salvage with me on a mission we might get lucky and get 10 = 15 of the same 3 parts. Imo they nerfed missions way to much and why do peps keep saying no lvl 4 agents in empire. Why do you have the right to tell other people how to play and or where to play. thats not fair. I think the way it was before was fine. None of the high qual lvl 4 agents were in empire. they were all low or 0 sec. My lvl 4 empire agent only dished out 3k lp for say an AE or something like that and in low sec im getting 10k for the same. i think thats a fair ballance. Oh and for all you peps that think they need to take money out of the game. tell you what i need a crap ton to buy stuff. so just send me all the money you have that you think needs taken out of game and ill shurly do that for you. Ill even show you my new toys if you want just to make shure that i actually spent the money and didnt keep it. Anyway enough of my soap box. This game has almost become a completely different game after kali. We should all be patient and give it a chance. there are to many exciting things in kali to just up and say screw it. Swag Co.We Build the stuff you Steal
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Jaguar Dragon they also say you can rat and make an avg of 300 million an hour Surely not in belts, you might make it in some complexes if you got a small group but you can't run those all the time anyway. Also, any piece of 0.0 that is worth anything tends to get contested rather frequently. If anything, 0.0 needs a nice long overdue boost compared to the risk free activity of lvl4 mission running. -- .sig apathy ftw
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Jaguar Dragon well i'm in empire space and have been in eve for nearly 2 years with multiple accounts for along time,, I CAN'T afford the cap ship skills or cap ship mods or the cap ship it self. and i play for over 8 hours a day. honestly. i'm flat out tierd of the grind. cuz thats what is required in empire to make billions and many hours every day.. the avg player doesn't do that..i have and do not have no where near enough to risk pvping in a cap ship. question ? do 0.0 alliances prefer there NEW members coming from empire to be poor or what? i would think a good 0.0 alliance would prefer players to have alot of isk,, they could afford to pvp and take the losses. my opinion making isk in eve is not a grind. you are just not creative enough to find real ways of doing it, not mining or grinding missions. or if you know of better ways, too lazy to implement them.
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:22:00 - [25] Keta Min why don't you read all of my original post,, so i'm lazy lol...
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:33:00 - [26] there are different kinds of lazyness. one is an unwilligness to work to achieve your goals, an other that applies to you is an unwiligness to change and explore other courses of action if the current situation is not satisfying, instead the lazy person just stays with the convenient stuff he is already well familiar with. it leads to bitterness because it doesn't change anything and you can't expect the conditions to suddenly change and drop money in your lap just because you want stuff that you don't have now.
SSgt Sniper Gallente In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.06 21:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Keta Min there are different kinds of lazyness. one is an unwilligness to work to achieve your goals, an other that applies to you is an unwiligness to change and explore other courses of action if the current situation is not satisfying, instead the lazy person just stays with the convenient stuff he is already well familiar with. it leads to bitterness because it doesn't change anything and you can't expect the conditions to suddenly change and drop money in your lap just because you want stuff that you don't have now. Hmmmm.... the op is right they've reduced the amount of loot again..... I think what he's asking is for them to un-reduce it. Tbh, I would tend to think he's right on that front. Now the philisophical arguments of the 'empire grind', Keta has a point on. Find something different to do every day, change up your routine, and the empire isn't ever a 'grind'. I rather enjoy myself here. --------- Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
Pax Althaleen Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.06 21:28:00 - [28] Originally by: QVCatullus If it takes literally weeks of play to assemble enough components to make a rig, then no one will sell the components or a rig that they make from the components for less than their weeks of effort were worth. Some estimations suggest that the working price for rigs will outpace the price for many T1 ships, which will of course limit sales. If no one is willing to pay a fair market value for the time the salvagers put into their work, they won't sell any rigs and they'll lose the effort they put into making them. I have to partly agree with you here, and in only in part because of the following. I will sell some of my rigs, and maybe even at a minor loss for a small time too. Please, let me explain... I trained myself to salvage after the patch. As I trained, i hadn't really made my mind up about how i was going to approach it with this one exception. I wanted 3 specific rigs for my ship, and when I couldn't find them on the market, i bought the 3 BPOs for them. I then decided that i would build my first 3 rigs for my own ship. Once that was done, i was going to approach the salvaging/rig issue in the following fashion. 1. I will continue to salvage these rare items from all of my missions and ratting. 2. I will continue to build the rigs i have BPOs for, as those salvage items become available to me through missioning and or ratting. 3. Whatever salvage items i have no use for at the moment, will go into a Station Container in my hangar for later use in other rigs i may buy the BPOs for and start bulding. If they are not used, or after a period of time i feel they are not needed, I will then sell them on the EVE market to the highest bidder. So while i will still continue to gather salvageable items to build my rigs, i will also be keeping an eye on the market for the time to start selling them as well. Whenever that happens, it happens, but when it does i should be ready for it. Repectfully, Pax Althaleen Holder - House Althaleen
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:32:00 - [29] you could do 4 lvl4 kill missions a day, the top misisons, the big ones,, after a month you will still not have the components to build 1 rig,, in safe space.. you will have a bunch of common rig components that everyone else has. few of the components that are required. i'm lazy .. i have been playing for almost 2 years at minimum 10 hours a day in safe space.. and i'm lazy. i takes forever to get the standings i have built up. top standings don't come easy..and my reward for building my char and getting top standings is crap.. pre cold war i could make more doing lvl2 missions with no standings or skills, than i do now at lvl4 and top skills and standings. alot of you say what we have now is good.. i say its crap. i have been here long enough to know what has been taken away from me. and most others don't even know what that is. unless you have been doing lvl4 kill missions solo. before july 2005 you have no idea what you missing. cuz i have been soloing lvl4 since may 2005.i know what has been reduced.
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Keta Min there are different kinds of lazyness. one is an unwilligness to work to achieve your goals, an other that applies to you is an unwiligness to change and explore other courses of action if the current situation is not satisfying, instead the lazy person just stays with the convenient stuff he is already well familiar with. it leads to bitterness because it doesn't change anything and you can't expect the conditions to suddenly change and drop money in your lap just because you want stuff that you don't have now. im with u also going multiplayer has its benefits - its the comfortable i dont wanna try everything attitude that is at work here These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer

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