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After 2 weeks of looking...time to ban Piracy (PvP) from all non 0.0 ?

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Dendrin Koljn Minmatar Elite United Corp	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:26:00 - [1] I've spent 2 weeks looking back through the General Discussion and Crime and Punishment sections of the forums and... Well for 1 piracy doesn't seem to exist in high sec, it's just exploting game mechanics to get no risk kills. 'How many noobs can i kill in jita with smartbombs' - for no other reason than you can, was my personal favourite thread content. Low sec is full of gate gankers that won't engage any possible threat. 'Warp to 0, allready adapted' and 'I love the WCS nerf' are wonderfull. All this is doing is annoying (note the number of posts) a HUGE section of the player base. As the players that i would actually class as Pirates are out in 0.0 anyway and are generrally also annoyed (as they too are grouped in with the monkeys) the only real people that it would affect are the relatively small number who are causing most of the grief. If you want to PvP go to 0.0, im sure the Pirates that are there already would be more than helpfull As an analogy, to compare eve with other MMOG's, Stations are Shops, and High Sec are the Big Cities (start points). Now I may be wrong as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years, but u normally cant run into the middle of a city and start blasting everone around you. Just because the game allows it due to its mechanics doesn't make you a good or smart player - generally the opposite. Just a note for the so called pirates who will no doubt flame..I mine, mission and PvP...im not a winge'n carebear, i don't logoffski, and i don't smacktalk.
Makree Ubar Asteroid Hugging Collective	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:27:00 - [2] Oh yes
Nm'Me Amarr Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn As an analogy, to compare eve with other MMOG's, Stations are Shops, and High Sec are the Big Cities (start points). Now I may be wrong as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years, but u normally cant run into the middle of a city and start blasting everone around you. So you want to take what makes EVE different and change that. Make it mainstream, just like every other game out there. :(
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:33:00 - [4] When you are standing waiting on the platform for a train, or are sitting somewhere alone, there is a golden rule of social interaction that will make your life 10 times easier: don't make eye contact with the nutter. Same goes for grief-bears in Eve. Learn their tricks and avoid them. Eve is a very egalitarian environment. It supports arse-hats and intellectuals. Some mechanics are inconsistent, ill-thought out and just plain idiotic. Kill rights were a small step in the right direction, but you won't get satisfaction by using them, ever, because you won't ever change the grief-bears behaviour by doing so. Just don't make eye contact with the nutters. Simple.
Jameroz Independent Frontiers Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:36:00 - [5] What good would this do? The low sec rewards wouldn't be anything special anymore as everyone would be there. In low sec you get standing penalty for killing people and you have sentry guns and you cannot deploy warp bubbles. Of course because of these there is actually more traffic which means more pirates. Now as for high sec (0.5+) killing... there shouldn't be insurance money for your ship loss and perhaps a fine if you manage to kill someone. Independent Frontiers is recruiting
Horsefly Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:39:00 - [6] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn I've spent 2 weeks looking back through the General Discussion and Crime and Punishment sections of the forums and... Well for 1 piracy doesn't seem to exist in high sec, it's just exploting game mechanics to get no risk kills. 'How many noobs can i kill in jita with smartbombs' - for no other reason than you can, was my personal favourite thread content. Low sec is full of gate gankers that won't engage any possible threat. 'Warp to 0, allready adapted' and 'I love the WCS nerf' are wonderfull. All this is doing is annoying (note the number of posts) a HUGE section of the player base. As the players that i would actually class as Pirates are out in 0.0 anyway and are generrally also annoyed (as they too are grouped in with the monkeys) the only real people that it would affect are the relatively small number who are causing most of the grief. If you want to PvP go to 0.0, im sure the Pirates that are there already would be more than helpfull As an analogy, to compare eve with other MMOG's, Stations are Shops, and High Sec are the Big Cities (start points). Now I may be wrong as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years, but u normally cant run into the middle of a city and start blasting everone around you. Just because the game allows it due to its mechanics doesn't make you a good or smart player - generally the opposite. Just a note for the so called pirates who will no doubt flame..I mine, mission and PvP...im not a winge'n carebear, i don't logoffski, and i don't smacktalk. How many of the 11-12 games have had a sustained growth over 3 years? How many of them have stated that piracy is a carrer. 2 weeks of forum whoring just means you have paid attention to the forum hounds. If you want a clear perspective get in game and play it.
ScreamingLord Sutch	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:40:00 - [7] If you don't like lowsec, avoid it. Theres game options a plenty to enable you to do so. Don't try and impose your likes and dislikes on the rest of the playerbase.
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Nm'Me So you want to take what makes EVE different and change that. Make it mainstream, just like every other game out there. :( You know, being different for the sake of being different isn't a good thing. It's a good policy to be different because it's smart, not because someone else has already done it. I always love it when people use the above line without thinking about it. As to the OP, really, all you'd have to do was to introduce risk into the equation, and suddenly many "pirates" would cease to be. Sure, Tiller and the likes of him would still be around, but they always will be, and I have respect for him for that, of a sort. The problem comes when someone knows the risk and cost exactly, which means they can effectively minimize it. Gate suicide ganking is a great example of it. You lose the ship, so you don't engage anything not worthwhile. Zero risk, because it has effectively been mitigated. Smart tactic, but perhaps not so smart on the part of the system that allows it. Things need player-based counters, and suicide ganking has none. Repopulate Low-Sec Paxton Industries is Recruiting
Kasak Black The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:49:00 - [9] For me, one of the biggest kicks I get in this game is killing people (and hopefully podding if my ship lasts long enough) in High Sec where they think it is safe. There is no greater satisfaction than ruining someone elses day. This is one of the key reasons why I play EVE, providing I take the sec hit and die to CONCORD all is fine in the world. If people dont like the way EVE works, play another game.
Nm'Me Amarr Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Daos Leghki Originally by: Nm'Me So you want to take what makes EVE different and change that. Make it mainstream, just like every other game out there. :( You know, being different for the sake of being different isn't a good thing. It's a good policy to be different because it's smart, not because someone else has already done it. I always love it when people use the above line without thinking about it. Nor is not a good thing to copy everybody else just because everybody else are doing it. ;)
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:59:00 - [11] just reading the title.. no to whatever your gonna go on about. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Araxmas Caldari Imperial Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:06:00 - [12] Quote: but u normally cant run into the middle of a city and start blasting everone around you. Just because the game allows it due to its mechanics doesn't make you a good or smart player - generally the opposite. Wow so if i went into my local town and took a knife out and stabbed a random stranger than some supernatural force will suddenly stop me?....NO It's called realism, the police stop the evil act but only after its done which is realistic and makes sence. --------
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Plutoinum on 07/12/2006 13:15:06 How about no ? CCP needs to find a balance between high sec rewards and low sec rewards and between low sec carebearing rewards and low sec piracy. That's all. Nothing wrong with playing a pirate. Those parasites are supposed to be in low sec and drain a bit of your blood aehm wallet I meant. ( Devs said something on the fanfest like that they want being evil/bad/criminal in empire to be possible, because in 0.0 it's not really bad. Murder in 0.0 isn't a crime, you know. ) CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:14:00 - [14] Edited by: Samirol on 07/12/2006 13:16:45 dont look the nutter in the eyes like burn said... so dont respond to his post Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
Cabadrin Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:18:00 - [15] Well, while the newbie hose into EVE isn't as large as some other games, it does retain members for a longer time. That and the fact that the population has increased drastically in the past three years points to many people enjoying the game immensely. If this proves to be game-breaking and a lot of people leave because of it, the devs will take steps to correct the problem. It is important, however, to keep this in perspective: high-sec ganking has been around for years, same with low-sec piracy, and we're still here _______________________________________________
MECTO Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:35:00 - [16] Edited by: MECTO on 07/12/2006 13:35:47 Originally by: Dendrin Koljn If you want to PvP go to 0.0, im sure the Pirates that are there already would be more than helpfull maybe u just should play another MMO? and not think that all will be changed to what u want here It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:36:00 - [17] What do people that live in 0.0 have to do with pirates? If you only live in empire please refrain from making generalizing statements about pirates, 0.0 players or pvp'ers, everytime i hear compulsive empire dwellers state their opinions on those subjects they are just showcasing their ignorance and prejudice. It must be hard when you find the forums and learn that you live and form your opinions in a bubble of ignorance. Pirates operate in 0.4 - 0.1 usually, sometimes you find 'm in 0.0 areas with npc stations or 0.0 bottleneck systems. They can operate in high-sec too, killing pilots that are dumb enough to carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in flimsy ships not even worth a million, it's not even risk free as you try to argue, concord protects everyone but outlaws equally. People in 0.0 aren't generally pirates by any stretch of the imagination, pirates do not claim space, develop it or exploit it, the overwhelming majority of 0.0 players do. -- .sig apathy ftw
Gray Carmicheal Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game I think that sums it up right there. BTW, this can be found Here Ranis by Trey Azagthoth Cortes has haxed my sig. :(
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Araxmas Quote: but u normally cant run into the middle of a city and start blasting everone around you. Just because the game allows it due to its mechanics doesn't make you a good or smart player - generally the opposite. Wow so if i went into my local town and took a knife out and stabbed a random stranger than some supernatural force will suddenly stop me?....NO It's called realism, the police stop the evil act but only after its done which is realistic and makes sence. WRONG, in your local bar if the stranger defends himself and stabs you he wouldn't be killed by police. This gameplay is not realism, it's griefing. I'm all for pirating, corp spies, corp thieves, etc, this is what makes eve fun and adds realism, Griefing players with no risk is lame, lame, lame.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:51:00 - [20] Oh man, normally I berate people for not reading the thread, but having read the topic, I'm still laughing too hard to be able to manage reading the thread Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:57:00 - [21] Ok, its more then simple. If you see a sharp increase in ship destruction, say in Jita. Then YOU should mobilize a force and go there. All you have to do is kill his pod...simple enough right? Concord will blast his ship, but he is going to be in a pod. Get some scan probes, get some interceptors, get some Battle cruisers. The last big "Because I can" killer in Empire space used an alt to move his bomb ship to an area. While this -9.1 character comes scooting in his pod, nobody shot him, nobody done a thing, but cried here in the forums, AFTER he blew away several million isk worth of cargo. You see a increase in Ships destroyed, DO SOMTHING ABOUT IT. Ghank their pods FFS! BUT DONT COME HERE CRYING about it! Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Sherii Vegas	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:10:00 - [22] Quote: ...as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years... Wow they had MMO's and internet on Atari? How the hell did I miss that!
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Roshan longshot yed, DO SOMTHING ABOUT IT. Ghank their pods FFS! BUT DONT COME HERE CRYING about it! I love you.
Legende Amarr Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:18:00 - [24] If you want to compare EVE to other MMOs, don't forget the most popular one ATM, WoW... you can attack other players in cities and you get killed just like you do in EVE. So... your point?
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:45:00 - [25] What I like most about this topic (and I'm using the word 'like' very loosely here) is how the OP thinks that spending two weeks looking at what wasn't a representative forum anyway makes him an expert on what's good for EVE. Hell, I've been reading these forums for 2 years, I say the best thing for EVE is if I get a free titan. Seriously. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Stems Gallente Trade Consortium Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:47:00 - [26] Edited by: Stems on 07/12/2006 14:48:20 Edited by: Stems on 07/12/2006 14:47:13 Originally by: Roshan longshot You see a increase in Ships destroyed, DO SOMTHING ABOUT IT. Ghank their pods FFS! BUT DONT COME HERE CRYING about it! You're my freaking hero. Originally by: Nero Scuro Hell, I've been reading these forums for 2 years, I say the best thing for EVE is if I get a free titan. Seriously. We can all dream can't we
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Sherii Vegas Quote: ...as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years... Wow they had MMO's and internet on Atari? How the hell did I miss that! According to wikipedia the first ever MUD came out in 1977, so yes. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:51:00 - [28] In response to the OP; EVE's not a safe place, anywhere. Well, perhaps the sole exception of sitting in a station and never undocking. This isn't really hammered into new players when they join, but is suggested pretty heavily by the tutorial at one point, if I recall correctly. I would think this "HUGE" segment of the playerbase would appreciate this inherent danger more than the addition of training wheels to the game to make it more safe. Learn to defend yourself. You've been given more than enough tools and toys to do so with. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Seishomaru Originally by: Ishmael Hansen Originally by: Araxmas Quote: but u normally cant run into the middle of a city and start blasting everone around you. Just because the game allows it due to its mechanics doesn't make you a good or smart player - generally the opposite. Wow so if i went into my local town and took a knife out and stabbed a random stranger than some supernatural force will suddenly stop me?....NO It's called realism, the police stop the evil act but only after its done which is realistic and makes sence. WRONG, in your local bar if the stranger defends himself and stabs you he wouldn't be killed by police. This gameplay is not realism, it's griefing. I'm all for pirating, corp spies, corp thieves, etc, this is what makes eve fun and adds realism, Griefing players with no risk is lame, lame, lame. lol you would not say that if you knew Brasilian police. :P It would kill both and take all their possessions and possibly kill a few other foks tha looked like criminals.. just for precaution... LOL, this sounds like some of the folks who 'police' certain areas in 0.0 -=^=-
Decadent Diva	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:26:00 - [30] people just want their fluffy grounds back, from games they've left. the question is, why did they left the game they left? and then ... there are players from other games, they can do all the the nasty things they couldnt do in the games they left. hard to balance :p and yes, the more players eve gets, the more of both kind of players will whine on the forums. about griefing/ganking and not being able to grief/gank
Irongut M'8'S	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:33:00 - [31] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn As the players that i would actually class as Pirates are out in 0.0 anyway and are generrally also annoyed (as they too are grouped in with the monkeys) the only real people that it would affect are the relatively small number who are causing most of the grief. If you want to PvP go to 0.0, im sure the Pirates that are there already would be more than helpfull You really don't get Eve do you? There are no pirates in 0.0, anything goes there. Those people you class as pirates in 0.0 are corps and alliances fighting for teritory and resources in lawless, unexplored space. They're more like cowboy's and prospectors fighting to tame the old west and claim their own part of it. Most of them would be annoyed at you comparing them to pirates.
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:52:00 - [32] Edited by: Serapis Aote on 07/12/2006 15:53:57 Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 07/12/2006 13:15:06 How about no ? CCP needs to find a balance between high sec rewards and low sec rewards and between low sec carebearing rewards and low sec piracy. That's all. Nothing wrong with playing a pirate. Those parasites are supposed to be in low sec and drain a bit of your blood aehm wallet I meant. ( Devs said something on the fanfest like that they want being evil/bad/criminal in empire to be possible, because in 0.0 it's not really bad. Murder in 0.0 isn't a crime, you know. ) I like this answer... Nothing wrong with low sec pvp. There are risks and rewards to it. I think maybe rewards for low sec should be increased to reflect the danger, thats about it. The only problem i see with low sec now, is that it is more risky then the rewards justify, hence why people dont head out there more often. If you want more people to go to low sec, dont make low sec more safe...and ruin eve, just give them an incentive to do so. I would put some better ore there, and make the missions give a lot better rewards then they do know. As it stands now there is no real point to low sec. It is only marginally more profitable then high sec, and when you factor in the cost of losing ships (which you will) its less profitable maybe. Pirates would like this too, because it would bring more people there to kill. And i still dont get people who are mad about low sec gate camps. With the WCS nerf (no more stabbed up sniper bs) people can now fight back more. And there is always the option to avoid it...Eve gives you all the tools you need. open up your map and look for kills and jumps, use an alt in a shuttle to look before jumping. Hell know your area, know the pirates that frequent it, and add them to your address book so you know when they are online (i do). Nothing wrong with pvp in low sec, just increase the rewards for risking your ship and pod to go there. And NO to the original post, its stupid, and isnt Eve.
Shilikahn	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:54:00 - [33] Originally by: Sherii Vegas Quote: ...as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years... Wow they had MMO's and internet on Atari? How the hell did I miss that! You missed MUD's? and Atari is almost 30 years old... We now know who is still wet behind the ears
Dendrin Koljn Minmatar Elite United Corp	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:58:00 - [34] Well, well, I thought I'd go for a extreme option ( that by the way I don't want), as normal suggestions seem to get bogged down in a PvP vs Carebear argument any way. Originally by: Nm'Me So you want to take what makes EVE different....( No, not really, but I would like to see a more realistic (within the rules of the EVE universe) risk / reward system than the one at the moment. Originally by: Horsefly How many of the 11-12......play it. Piracy may not be stated as a career, but any Pvp action can be piracy - it's the reasons for PvP that makes a pirate not the PvP itself. And if by whoring you mean looking back over hundreds of posts to see how the way people view the gameplay whoring then guilty as charged. Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch If you don't like lowsec, avoid it... Never said if i liked lowsec or not. Yep plenty of options, read the bottom of the OP. Not trying to impose anything, sorry if it came across like that. Originally by: Daos Leghki ...As to the OP, really, all you'd have to do was to introduce risk into the equation, and suddenly many "pirates" would cease to be... Yep, I agree, and have seen many reasonable ways to do this, all of which tend to get flamed to hell, by everyone who thinks it may affect them Originally by: Kasak Black For me, one of the biggest kicks I get in this game is.... OK, me too on the killing people, but in all honesty, do you think the penalty you pay for your actions - EVE is a high tech universe with instant communication - your a high profile active criminal and yet you can, for the most part, fly around without a worry in heavily policed systems. Originally by: prsr What do people that live in 0.0 have to do with pirates? Well what would you call people that kill others for just being there, in areas that have no active form of governmental control ?.. and I said 'the people I class as Pirates' because of the reason i just gave. And if you'd read the bottom of the OP you might not have posted the rest To the unquoted - I got fed up But again the main problem seems to be the fact alot of people only 1/2 read a post or not at all and then do some name calling or shout Y or N depending on what they want and sod everone else. I said I mine, mission, and PvP, never said where I live, and some of you assume i must be in empire (NOT), I don't like lowsec (NOT). I live in lowsec mostly, go into 0.0, and highsec if i have too, I've killed and been killed, , I avoid gate camps when i have to or join a gang to deal with them. But I am starting to get annoyed with some of the player base that are unwilling to even talk about possible changes to the way THEY play. The PvP vs Carebear argument is the lamest of the lot imho..I'd imagine that close to 90% of the player base is actually on both sides at the same time. Yes EVE is PvP, well Duh, and I know the carebears run the economy, without which the game would fall apart. The only thing thats important is EVERYONE is equal under the game mechanics / universe rules, which atm isn't the case. eg. If a carebear miner went into 0.0 what would his chances be of survival ? bugger all really, and those that kill/pod him suffer how ? not at all.. but at the same time a solo PvP'er (didn't say pirate ) can go into high sec and (unless they have a really low sec status) if they are attacked then the lawfull get concorded. That's not balanced....but any1 who suggests making a change to this must be a carebear ??? The reason I left games i played before EVE has either been the games gone, i'm only ever grinding and got bored, or because the players self destruct. When I started playing last year, most posts on the forums were questions. Even including the recent patch the amount of moaning has steadily increased and it's not moans about the game but the way people are playing it. Cont. to flame, as it just proves the point.
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:18:00 - [35] BAN THEM ALL -----
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:24:00 - [36] Quote: Wow so if i went into my local town and took a knife out and stabbed a random stranger than some supernatural force will suddenly stop me?....NO Well if you want full realism then lets make account hacking fully legal....lets allow people to get onto your account without your permission and steal all your in game cash and ships and sell them on the market. Lets even go one step farther to make this a more realistic game experience for you, since you seemto enjoy realism so much. Let's allow them to be able to get your credit card info off your account and go on a spending spree. You used the example of someone being able to walk into a place and pull out a knife and stab someone and the authorities could only deal with it "after the fact". Yes true...but that is a bad example because in such a 'real world' example you would most likly go to jail for aggrivated assault, attempted murder or an array of other charges. Should we institute a game 'prison'? Concord impounds your ship for a year and your character cannot leave the prison station? There has to be a limit as to how 'real' people want things....and if they want to go fully realitic one way then there has to be the consequences of such a fully realstic act. Ganking is fine in the PvP aspect where the challange is the reward. But when your sole purpose is just to ruin someone elses fun you are a pretty sick individual.
MiracleMaker Caldari Devious Assassins	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:00:00 - [37] There is pirating in High Sec, this amazing band of hooligans is called Concord. All they do all day is gank poor folks just trying to make a living. How unfair Other than that, Nothing so see hear move along... _______________________________________________ Making Miracles, One pod at a time
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:05:00 - [38] ships in eve still have a minimal crew left, give them a chance to do mutiny against the pod pilots who suicide their ships in <0.5 space =]
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:11:00 - [39] LOL best idea I have ever heard. Totally....I'm sure it's gonna get hard to keep hiring a crew when he keeps getting blown up by Concord for his asshat manouvers.
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn Well what would you call people that kill others for just being there, in areas that have no active form of governmental control ?.. and I said 'the people I class as Pirates' because of the reason i just gave. And if you'd read the bottom of the OP you might not have posted the rest This is so tiresome. It doesn't matter what your opinion is of the arguments that people use to shoot you in 0.0. You are trespassing in their claimed space, you assume there's no active governmental control but you are wrong, you were so wrong that you (and tons of other rather inconsiderate players) got shot by the people that represent the active governmental control. You can deny other peoples claims only until they shoot you in the face, and thanks to people like you, most regions operate under NBSI rules now. If you don't have positive standings you will get shot, end of story. You want in and feel safe? Send a diplomat. You don't like that option? Bring a fleet and take the space you want. Don't like that option either? Tough. Originally by: Dendrin Koljn The only thing thats important is EVERYONE is equal under the game mechanics / universe rules, which atm isn't the case. eg. If a carebear miner went into 0.0 what would his chances be of survival ? bugger all really, and those that kill/pod him suffer how ? not at all.. What makes you think that game-mechanics differentiate between carebear miners and pvp'ers when they go to 0.0? And please stop setting up strawmen regarding the reasons why people shoot you out of their space. Originally by: Dendrin Koljn but at the same time a solo PvP'er (didn't say pirate ) can go into high sec and (unless they have a really low sec status) if they are attacked then the lawfull get concorded. I fail to see how someone that initiates combat in empire is "lawfull", you just want to have your cake and eat it too. Originally by: Dendrin Koljn That's not balanced....but any1 who suggests making a change to this must be a carebear ??? Well no, suffering from a very narrow perspective maybe, but not a carebear perse. All in all it's quite funny how you just read the forums for two weeks and from your experiences in other mmorpg's started to identify with the whining crowd without understanding the game. You may now label me as pirate/pvp'er/griefer so you can safely avoid having to take my posts or anyone elses "flames" seriously. -- .sig apathy ftw
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.07 19:33:00 - [41] Well said prsr. To the OP, your comments on 0.0 politics and gameplay serve only to undermine any other points you may have made. Understandable really, as EVE is huge and nobody can really be an expert in all forms of gameplay across the universe. However, that being said, your perspective on how the game is played in 0.0 is very, very inaccurate.
Kazire	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:14:00 - [42] the op definetly here has the wrong idea of where and what people are doing where. Low sec is where outlaw pilots with large bounties tend to hang out. This area often tends to be much more dangerous than 0.0 where large alliances patrol and control territory. 0.0 is where fleet battles occur. Although pirates sometimes make forrays into 0.0, they do not have the numbers and firepower of alliance gangs and fleets.
Moraguth	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:35:00 - [43] I think it was the OP who said in a later post, in reply to a knife being drawn in public, you are right. The arguement went something like "if you pull an knife in public and kill someone, afterwards the police get you". That is very true, and that's how eve works right now. Point for eve's reality. But, after that, there has to be a penalty to the person. Losing security status for a bit till he goes out and kills some NPC's isn't enough. It's too easy to get back to normal, no real downside to killing in a .5+ system. If the killer lost status AND had to pay the insurance money, that might help. But honestly, i'm pretty sure the ships are cheap and all the stuff inside is expensive. But there should be some sort of financial penalty to killing "in public" because no, eve is not going to send your character to prison (a station) for a period of time. But, if you make that character lose alot of money for killing in "safe space" then i suppose i'd have less to complain about. Right now, it's too easy to break the rules in the "civilized" part of space. Be a criminal, fine, but you have to pay for your "freedom from society" while still living there. good game
Zelea Zinc	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:16:00 - [44] There's plenty of penalty, and it's not completely risk free to pirate in high-sec. Well, maybe in Jita, but that can simply be compared to a guy in a nice car stopping in south central los angeles at night. You just have to expect trouble in major metropolitan areas. In fact, any time you are alone, you are vulnerable. Stop trying to make Eve a one player game. What is the point of you sitting at your asteroid alone for hours on end without ever being challenged for your treasure?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:20:00 - [45] Edited by: Plutoinum on 09/12/2006 14:24:47 How about ... no ? EVE isn't fair, crime and evil has its place, adapt or die. It think they should ban players for 3 days, who use the word 'griefing' in EVE , when it doesn't fit. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Kerc Kasha Caldari Tsunami Syndicate Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:36:00 - [46] Since when does high-sec ganking not have a penalty? You lose your ship, you lose your security status and the only thing you gain is that if your DAMN LUCKY the gear you wanted out of that T1 hauler didn't explode with the ship. I know Sec-status is hardly much of a penalty because its very possible to go from lets so -7 to -1.7 in a week, but we're talking about non-stop mission running/belt running for the whole week, 12 hours a day. I know a lot of care bears manage to do that but for Pvpers this is incredibly boring and not many can actually stand to do it. This is our jail sentence for breaking the law, so stop saying we don't get punished at all for our deeds.
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:52:00 - [47] Originally by: OP All this is doing is annoying (note the number of posts) a HUGE section of the player base. Dear OP, Please do realize that people that post on the forums are the vocal minority (as in, very small portion of the playerbase) and most posts are of little actual substance and/or pure rabble. You have no idea how EVE forums would look if a "HUGE section" of the playerbase posted here. I dread the day. So should you. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Sebastian Valance Gallente Freelancers Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Kasak Black For me, one of the biggest kicks I get in this game is killing people (and hopefully podding if my ship lasts long enough) in High Sec where they think it is safe. There is no greater satisfaction than ruining someone elses day. This is one of the key reasons why I play EVE, providing I take the sec hit and die to CONCORD all is fine in the world. If people dont like the way EVE works, play another game. Thank you Kasak Black for being honest about your style of preferred gameplay. If ruining someone's day ingame is what you enjoy, than so be it. Blast away. I honestly admit that I have no clue how anyone could derive pleasure from harming others, but I am aware that there are millions of people in this world that do enjoy such as this everyday. But just because I don't understand or comprehend why you do what you do does not make your style of gameplay any less valid than how I choose to play EVE. I guess that makes me a carebear by default, but that does not mean I am doomed to being unable to adapt and overcome the challenges that players present other players ingame. We Industrialists just need to think outside the box some more. I will not deny you, and others with similar tastes, the opportunity to enjoy EVE any more or less than anyone else that pay's their subscription (minus the unconventional players violating the EULA with macro software and/or account sharing). Therefore, I do not call for any game mechanic that would bar a weapon from being fired in High Security, I just ask the Dev's to continue to strive to encourage a balance in keeping with "risk vs. reward". Everyone doing their own thing in EVE is what makes EVE so special as compared to the other MMO's, and it is one of many reasons why people do not leave the game when they are told to "quit EVE and stfu. Can I have your stuff?". I think this special quality of EVE should be maintained and protected in all of it's facets, even if that means my character is at risk because of it. ______________________________________________ Sabastian Valance
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Hurricane Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn When I started playing last year, most posts on the forums were questions. Even including the recent patch the amount of moaning has steadily increased and it's not moans about the game but the way people are playing it. You hit the nail right on the head. These discussions have gotten very tiresome over the last year. It is just like discussing (no offence to those who are) with diehard christians about religion. Those people tend to have massive eyecaps on (like with horses) and only tend to see thing ONLY from THERE perspective. There is no chance of letting them try to see things from an other perspective, not for 1 instance. This development has also been, in my opinion, the soul reason we see far less dev activeties on the boards compared to a year+ ago. All you can really do is read this stuff and laugh your hearts out. Cause in the end all these whines and flames are just cr*p. I`d personally would not invest so much enegery in convincing others in the current social state of the EVE player base. You can better use if for more worthy things in life. ________________________________________________ What a Revelation!
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.09 15:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn As an analogy, to compare eve with other MMOG's, Stations are Shops, and High Sec are the Big Cities (start points). Now I may be wrong as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years, but u normally cant run into the middle of a city and start blasting everone around you. Just because the game allows it due to its mechanics doesn't make you a good or smart player - generally the opposite. In Ragnarok Online, you couldn't fight inside of cities, but there was an item you could use to summon a monster. God I loved making highlevel monsters apprear and wipe out the hundreds of people cluttering the main cities. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Karrihn Caldari Quintessential	Posted - 2006.12.09 16:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Sherii Vegas Quote: ...as i've only played about 11-12 MMOG's over the last 20 years... Wow they had MMO's and internet on Atari? How the hell did I miss that! Its called door games you would access through a bulletin board system. I had a Comodore 64 with a 400 baud modem. Others may have used an apple IIc and ATARI even had a personal computer too. and yes some were multi-player. they were text-based games you paid money to the BBS operator for access to the board. And it was also customary to pay even more for popular games. So that would pretty much sum up how you missed that. thanks for stoping by. "never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to your level and beat you with experience." The Destruction of your ship is usually preceeded by the thought,"I think I will try somthing a little different this time...."
Neon Genesis Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.12.09 17:36:00 - [52] Jesus this is an insanely worthless thread.
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.12.09 18:10:00 - [53] Sure, lets just do that a few of the people posting again and again want! Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected])
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.09 19:17:00 - [54] Quote: Well what would you call people that kill others for just being there, in areas that have no active form of governmental control ?.. and I said 'the people I class as Pirates' because of the reason i just gave. And if you'd read the bottom of the OP you might not have posted the rest THEY are the govermental control. you have shown your lack of understanding of eve with that comment alone. been one of the players in 0.0 i can say i have never ransomed once in my eve life. but i have killed plenty of people who enter my territory without permission. The playerbase in 0.0 are the goverment, which is why they can claim soveringty of systems, build and run outposts and many many more cool toys on the way courtesy of the devs. so my advice to you is to stop thinking you know everything from reading the forums for 2 weeks, get in a ship and explore eve..if you do this you will cringe in shame looking back on this post. But like most of your kind you wont, you will sit there with your incorrect impressions shooting of wrong adive as if it is the word of god...pathetic. RAM is recruiting
Turas Kain Minmatar Dark Moon Industries	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:23:00 - [55] Suicide ganking and all such nice things is not a failure of the system. These things have been around for a long time and are 'working as intended' for the most part. It is a failure on the victim's part to accurately understand and evaluate the risk they are taking. Almost always comes down to being lazy or careless. The system works, it's the player base that is at fault.
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:28:00 - [56] How exactly can you pirate in high sec? Surely the only ways around the concord is to use "broken mechanics" as you call them to kill people or wardec them which isn't really piracy. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Merchantigus Minmatar Riot Zone	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:40:00 - [57] Dear masters of the univiverse. merchant here. The Eve forums have had so much whine on them recently that the pure mass of stupidity has created a black hole. We're very sorry pls come fix it ktnx. Love and kisses Merchant Ps. Send more cheese. With the black hole and all you could just kind of toss it in this general direction and the gravity would pull it to us. "When still up after 30 hours you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm."
Verone Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:45:00 - [58] Originally by: James Snowscoran BAN THEM ALL I CONCUR WITH THIS GENTLEMAN. VETO FOR HIRE

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