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Please CCP don't change salvaging

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Rayvonuk	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:30:00 - [31] Originally by: Doc Extropy Having to salvage about 50 hours (raw estimate) to build one single rig while there are about 150.000 * 3 rig slots to fill makes absolutely no sense. strange, it makes perfect sense to me, Salvage the wrecks you leave during your normal activities and you will eventuaslly get all the required parts and waste no time. Do it how it was intended.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Doc Extropy Rigs must be common or CCP should remove them from the game. Nuff said. Oh you mean like the Tech II BPO's? They are not common so they should be removed from the game Nuff said. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Lord Severenth Caldari WHITE WOLFE INTERPRISES	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:52:00 - [33] i think theres no problem really, i mean, i only salvage to sell on, just because thats one thing that people here seem to be missing. I'll admit it can be annoying doing a whole mission, no salvaged parts, but hey, maybe i shoot stuff too hard leaving nothing left ( btw, is the weapon that destroyed the vessel thats turned into a wreck change wheather a component is dropped or not ? ) -------------------------------------------------- easyIGB_v1.0 - Easily make your own In Game Sites!
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:53:00 - [34] Originally by: Xsag i think if ccp had intended for rigs to be uber expensive the bpo's would of been MUCH MUCH MUCH more expensive...t1 bpo rig 100k - 500K ? thats less than a griffin bpo aaaand relax :-) The expense part comes from the work involved in the salvage...Not the BPO Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Firebyrd Gallente Miner Guide to the Galaxy	Posted - 2006.12.08 13:05:00 - [35] I agree with the OP on most, the salvage drops should be a little more available, but yet not in large quantities, i did the Lvl 3 Pirate invasion, if you get high Loyalty points( large missions like the one mentioned i received 1825 LPs) you get more salvage parts, Low LP missions you get less to none.... Drone harrasment lvl 3 is one that drops 0-2 parts sometimes, the drops should be increased, but not till its as common as Veldspar, thats what u have skills for, and the rig thats for salvaging, i have lvl 4 Salvage... For the smaller LP missions the drop rate should increase, but not at a drastic amount, rigs are an extra piece, they should cost extra, even more so since they are like implants, and should cost no less then 10-20 mill per unit.. And also once you learn what missions drop in salvage, you know then what to waste your time on and what to not salvage ----------------------------------------------- In the End , there can be only 1 Learn from yesterday, that u may be stronger tomorrow
Kaathar Rielspar Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.08 13:06:00 - [36] absolutely, and t1 bpos are generally priced at what, 10 time the mineral cost to produce an item? this is probably an invalid comparison since the rigs themselves dont use minerals in the construction. but meh all these elitists that want to see rigs remain at 1bn+ prices are kidding themselves on. i reckon rigs should end up costing anywhere from a few hundred thousand isk up to around 4-5mil. depending on components and popularity. more to the point, these are t1 rigs. the t2 rigs are the stuff the elitists can crow over and pay through the nose for ____________________ Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs? Overpriced Nos victims.
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 13:52:00 - [37] Edited by: Xsag on 08/12/2006 13:57:28 Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: Xsag i think if ccp had intended for rigs to be uber expensive the bpo's would of been MUCH MUCH MUCH more expensive...t1 bpo rig 100k - 500K ? thats less than a griffin bpo aaaand relax :-) The expense part comes from the work involved in the salvage...Not the BPO yes but dont take my quote out of context - the message you have quoted relates to someone complaining about the price that rigs might be - my quote above is pointing out that if rigs where intended to expensive to build then the bpo's would cost alot more yes they may take time to get the required parts but as we should all know by now that is going to be addressed on next wednesdays patch cheers ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 13:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar Edited by: Kaathar Rielspar on 08/12/2006 13:15:43 absolutely, and t1 bpos are generally priced at what, 10 time the mineral cost to produce an item? this is probably an invalid comparison since the rigs themselves dont use minerals in the construction. but meh all these elitists that want to see rigs remain at 1bn+ prices are kidding themselves on. i reckon rigs should end up costing anywhere from a few hundred thousand isk up to around 4-5mil. depending on components and popularity....... totally agree with this bit - lets face it if anyone buys a T1 rig for 1bn they are clowns and can they give me 1bn ill give u sound random junk i have in my hangar k thnx ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
geewiz InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.08 14:13:00 - [39] IMO the salvage rates are fairly low however that is not what is broken. It's the circuits, I've salvaged roughly 300 items which if the drop items were properly balanced would equate to maybe 2 rigs. However out of those 300 there are only 20 circuits! As you need approx three times as many circuits as other items this means you will have roughly FOURTY FIVE TIMES as many other items than circuits before you can make ONE SINGLE RIG. WTF are you supposed to do with all these surplus items you spent ages collecting?? You can't sell/trade as they are tbh worthless. If the balance of scrap is put right then you will see more rigs on market, they will be expensive but not .5bil which they are atm. Make them hard but not insane. gee http://i49.phot[url=http://www.iron-alliance.com/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=11787][/url]obucket.com/albums/f279/betabob/geewiz-e
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 14:31:00 - [40] delete last post since its been posted im now getting a login page to the iron alliance (possibly caused by the strange url junk on his sig.....) ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Nige007 VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.08 14:34:00 - [41] I'm with the op ^^^ Rigs will for a short period be ultra expensive but will come down in price. I enjoy the idea of salvaging and am happy with the current system. I dont have near enough parts for building a rig yet but everything i salvage is extra value to what I used to get from cans. I expect one day I'll have enough parts to build me a rig, at that poiint I will build it and sell it for profit and will hope that's a decent price. I dont see rigs as being for the poorer members of eve, they seem to be for the rich man but I'm happy with that. The bonuses the rigs provide are very good and therefore you shouldn't expect them to be cheep. Give the system some time and the prices will drop as there's currently not many parts around. If people dont want to salvage the ships then good for me as I'll keep doing it and it will just make the rig prices higher as they are then rare parts!!! Nige
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2006.12.08 14:40:00 - [42] TBH the salvage drops are fine. They are dependant on a number of factors (which I have worked out to some extent) so I have a good idea of the drop rates on what I am doing. My only complaint about it is that people are underselling components or buyers are asking for 10% or less of the actual price of the components. This clearly shows that there are more comps dropping then market demand.
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.12.08 14:53:00 - [43] Originally by: Mira deVorsha TBH the salvage drops are fine. They are dependant on a number of factors (which I have worked out to some extent) so I have a good idea of the drop rates on what I am doing. Care to share? I'd love to hear any theories on what makes wrecks drop more salvage. Maybe I should orbit the wreck twice and hit it with my T2 rubber chicken before activating the salvager. Damn I knew I was missing something... Originally by: Mira deVorsha My only complaint about it is that people are underselling components or buyers are asking for 10% or less of the actual price of the components. This clearly shows that there are more comps dropping then market demand. No, what it shows is people selling the components are price-gouging b*stards who either haven't figured out that if they sell those burned circuits at 2M a piece then the costs of the rig made from those components (assuming it makes it to the market) will be upwards of 200 Million, or they have figured that out but don't care, they're just selling for the quick buck. Either way, there is no 'actual price' of these components - they can't be manufactured, so a base price is meaningless (unless you consider what you'd get from reprocessing them, in which case they're being sold for 100's of times their 'actual' value. The price is market-driven, (as it should be) but right now few people are buying at the prices being asked, and even fewer are selling at the prices being offered. I guess the two will converge at some point.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2006.12.08 14:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Slevin Kalebra In every case it takes longer to clear up after the battle than to beat the mission itself. I thought that as well now what I do is. 1. Complete mission. Bookmark each deadspace area. Ignore the wreaks completly. 2. Head back and select complete mission. 3. Unmount my weapons and mount 3 tractors and two salvagers (running in a caracel). 4. Go back and loot/salvage. Because the mission is gone its not longer dead space and I can move faster. 5. I tractor three cans at a time and drive towards the 4th one. Salvage on the first two cans closest. You can speed clean an area easily this way.
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Originally by: Mira deVorsha TBH the salvage drops are fine. They are dependant on a number of factors (which I have worked out to some extent) so I have a good idea of the drop rates on what I am doing. Care to share? I'd love to hear any theories on what makes wrecks drop more salvage. Maybe I should orbit the wreck twice and hit it with my T2 rubber chicken before activating the salvager. Damn I knew I was missing something... Originally by: Mira deVorsha My only complaint about it is that people are underselling components or buyers are asking for 10% or less of the actual price of the components. This clearly shows that there are more comps dropping then market demand. No, what it shows is people selling the components are price-gouging bstards who either haven't figured out that if they sell those burned circuits at 2M a piece then the costs of the rig made from those components (assuming it makes it to the market) will be upwards of 200 Million, or they have figured that out but don't care, they're just selling for the quick buck............. thats EXACTLY what i recommend all of you to do because come wednesday the value of the circuit boards is going to drop as supply goes up and anyone trying to sell rigs for 100m+ is going to fail and find themselves sitting there waiting a very long time for the rigs to sell - where not "price-gouging bstards" where just using our brains and taking advantage of what we know to be true - you should do the same while you still can imo. Cheers ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
cornelius Agrippa	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:11:00 - [46] You want a rig go salvage the parts, umm takes to long I WANT A RIG NOW I found a rig for 2bil isk Umm THIS IS TOO MUCH I WANT A RIG NOW OH look BPO for as low as a 100k but the parts take to long to get I WANT A RIG NOW Here we go first look at the skills to use a rig look at the skills to build a rig you need lvl2 rig (type) to build the rig. so buy the print Salvage the parts sell the extras buy the ones you need build rig yourself COST BPO and time BUT I WANT A RIG NOW the OP has made his point and i agree with it leave as is for a few months and see where it goes. as for the ones that say they will cost to much to buy , go salave the parts and sell it once made make your bil isk while you can . STOP TRING TO MAKE THE DEV'S MAKE EVE TOO EASY
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:14:00 - [47] Originally by: Mira deVorsha Originally by: Slevin Kalebra In every case it takes longer to clear up after the battle than to beat the mission itself. I thought that as well now what I do is. 1. Complete mission. Bookmark each deadspace area. Ignore the wreaks completly. 2. Head back and select complete mission. 3. Unmount my weapons and mount 3 tractors and two salvagers (running in a caracel). 4. Go back and loot/salvage. Because the mission is gone its not longer dead space and I can move faster. 5. I tractor three cans at a time and drive towards the 4th one. Salvage on the first two cans closest. You can speed clean an area easily this way. I already do that (if you'd read the rest of the post you might have gathered that). I don't even 'unmount' my weapons as I have a dedicated, fitted loot ship that I've been using on missions for months (Cormarant, now with 4 tractors, 4 salvagers, MWD, cargo expander). BMing a can and coming back with a ship equipped with MWD and tractors is a method I've been touting for a long time prior to Kali. It just takes much longer since Revelations because of the number of wrecks that need to be checked, and because a proportion of those are empty wrecks, it is less 'profitable' overall than just leaving the loot and taking another mission instead. Those times to complete / loot are post-Revelations, using the method you described. Admittedly it might have taken me a couple of extra minutes to write down the loot I recovered, and I am (although I say it myself) devestatingly efficient at actually completing the mission itself, but the looting still takes as long as, and sometimes up to 50% longer, than completing the mission objectives.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:16:00 - [48] OP - I wish you ill. Salvaging is no fun for most people. We could do it too - we decided we didnt like it as is. Wherever you went - here you are.
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:26:00 - [49] Originally by: Ghoest OP - I wish you ill. Salvaging is no fun for most people. We could do it too - we decided we didnt like it as is. what a pointless post - everyone is entitled to their opinion - its also obvious u havent bothered reading all the other posts on this thread otherwise ud know that its going to be changing for the better in 5 days (oh noes! 5 days) geez ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Atreyu Niain	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn WHAT !! i can hear the screams. Well I've been salvaging some of my rat wrecks since it was availiable and, im not anywhere near 1000 units (as some are), got about 40 i think, but that don't change my point... The drop rate is FINE for the effort required - especially as you get loot as well. This was supposed to be a 'mini profession' but seems to have been hijacked by a group of ' I want rigs, but im not gonna buy them, I wanna make em meself' Well Boo Hoo !! You want to salvage, fine !! You want to build rigs, fine !! You want to do both, without it taking ages, GO AWAY You are trying to build parts from burn't out wrecks for pete's sake - what your saying is.. set light to a block of 50 flats, let em burn - then turn up afterwards and try to build a usable 3 piece suite from the bits. Ignore these people CCP or you might as well just get rid of salvage parts and just drop rigs. As this is a 'bonus drop' to what we had before, your just complaining that the chocolate icing isn't thick enough on your free cake ! signed!!
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:29:00 - [51] Originally by: cornelius Agrippa <snip some over-the-top attempt to win the Eve Oscar for Most Dramatic Post> STOP TRING TO MAKE THE DEV'S MAKE EVE TOO EASY I think most people who wanted to try out this salvage thing, especially after trying the rigs out on Sisi, thought that rigs would be pretty common, reasonably cheap and although not 'throwaway' items, available to everyone, so it came as something of a rude awakening to find that that was not what CCP had in mind at all. Given the amount of ships already in the game with more being produced every day, I was thinking it would give people the chance to experiment with different setups... like: "what happens if I fit these 3 rigs to this ship? ... okay that didn't work... is it better with this combination?" or "is a shield-rig optimised Drake better or worse than a missile-rig optimised one? I'll try one of each and find out" Right now, many people are going to be lucky to be able to afford one rig to put on their single favourite ship, rather than having two or three different ships of the same type, each with a different set of rigs which was what I thought.
LtCol Killgore	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:36:00 - [52] i for one dont mind them nerfing the no. of bits you need to make a rig, as long as they only nerf the bpo's to require less to build rather than increasing the amount dropped, so anyone who's spent the last weeks salvinging them bit by bit wont have lost out.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:40:00 - [53] Guess we got two camps here, those who want rigs to be only for the rich (most likely people who are rich themselves and want to have even more advantages from that), being used akin to faction modules, restricted pretty much to HACs and better, to make already great ships even greater. And those who want rigs to be just as common as T1 modules so they can be used by anyone on any ship including frigs, as a means to bring more spice into ship fitting for everyone. I know I belong into the second camp (despite being theoretically rich myself). I wonder where CCP sits. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Admai Sket	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:40:00 - [54] Edited by: Admai Sket on 08/12/2006 15:42:26 Edited by: Admai Sket on 08/12/2006 15:41:36 Originally by: Doc Extropy Rigs must be common or CCP should remove them from the game. Nuff said. what in the ***** ** are you talking about???? edit: OMFG IM STILL SO LIKE... 'WTF' THAT I HAVE TO HAVE AN EXTRA RANT IN MY EDIT... AAAAARRGGGHHH!! WHY WHY WHY WHY would you say that????!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?1/1/1/1/111?!!?!? edit2: comes down from ceiling... honestly, what are you thinking? --------- NEED A SIG PLEASE.
Doc Extropy Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:44:00 - [55] Edited by: Doc Extropy on 08/12/2006 15:46:57 I have a formula now that shows how far from being reasonable the whole salvaging stuff is: 150.000 subscripers, imagine everyone of them wants to fit ONE ship per month with 3 rigs, where each rig needs 300 items to be built and every killed ship drops one single item. 150.000 / 30 days = 5.000 * 3 rigs = 15.000 * 300 items = 4.500.000 ship kills per day 4.500.000 ship kills per day to satisfy very basic demand. Needless to say that the actual dropping rate is far below 1 item / ship kill and that the item ratios are seriously wrecked. And, yes, I would really like to see rigs being close to a "must have" for non - noobs, so we will see much more diversity in ship setups. For example, a certain player could even get well known for his "omg Brutix with 45% explosive armor resist and higher speed than normal". Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Admai Sket	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:48:00 - [56] Originally by: Doc Extropy I have a formula now that shows how far from being reasonable the whole salvaging stuff is: 150.000 subscripers, imagine everyone of them wants to fit ONE ship per month with 3 rigs, where each rig needs 300 items to be built and every killed ship drops one single item. 150.000 / 30 days = 5.000 * 3 rigs = 15.000 * 300 items = 4.500.000 ship kills per day 4.500.000 ship kills per day to satisfy very basic demand. Needless to say that the actual dropping rate is far below 1 item / ship kill and that the item ratios are seriously wrecked. So you're saying that rigs SHOULD be common and that everyone should have them? Why? They were put in as a rare thingummy that will cost lots. And at this rate, that's what they are! --------- NEED A SIG PLEASE.
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:49:00 - [57] Originally by: LtCol Killgore i for one dont mind them nerfing the no. of bits you need to make a rig, as long as they only nerf the bpo's to require less to build rather than increasing the amount dropped, so anyone who's spent the last weeks salvinging them bit by bit wont have lost out. when nerfing takes place theres always a loser :-) personally i think they should go somewhere in between slight increase in drops slight decrease in requirements, and of course the most important a switching of the circuit boards from rare to common and vice versa for the other parts ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:52:00 - [58] Originally by: Doc Extropy Edited by: Doc Extropy on 08/12/2006 15:46:57 I have a formula now that shows how far from being reasonable the whole salvaging stuff is: 150.000 subscripers, imagine everyone of them wants to fit ONE ship per month with 3 rigs, where each rig needs 300 items to be built and every killed ship drops one single item. 150.000 / 30 days = 5.000 * 3 rigs = 15.000 * 300 items = 4.500.000 ship kills per day 4.500.000 ship kills per day to satisfy very basic demand. Needless to say that the actual dropping rate is far below 1 item / ship kill and that the item ratios are seriously wrecked. And, yes, I would really like to see rigs being close to a "must have" for non - noobs, so we will see much more diversity in ship setups. For example, a certain player could even get well known for his "omg Brutix with 45% explosive armor resist and higher speed than normal". the basic maths is ok but with over 12 different parts out there.....you could have lots of parts that u dont need.....which is entirely possible :S ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Doc Extropy Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:54:00 - [59] Originally by: Admai Sket Originally by: Doc Extropy I have a formula now that shows how far from being reasonable the whole salvaging stuff is: 150.000 subscripers, imagine everyone of them wants to fit ONE ship per month with 3 rigs, where each rig needs 300 items to be built and every killed ship drops one single item. 150.000 / 30 days = 5.000 * 3 rigs = 15.000 * 300 items = 4.500.000 ship kills per day 4.500.000 ship kills per day to satisfy very basic demand. Needless to say that the actual dropping rate is far below 1 item / ship kill and that the item ratios are seriously wrecked. So you're saying that rigs SHOULD be common and that everyone should have them? Why? They were put in as a rare thingummy that will cost lots. And at this rate, that's what they are! If they are rare they would be another addition for the super rich players that already have all the other toys. Being available to all players at a very modest price (500k for the funny ones, 5m for the usable ones for example) they would give us a whole new dimension in fitting ships and more surprises in pvp, as well as new, never heard of, tactical possibilities. It all boils down to this: Did CCP want to create a new toy for a) a minuscule minority or did they want to b) create new content, new possibilities for everyone? If a) is the case then I guess the majority of the playerbase should ask CCP not to release any new content anymore, because it only leads to super veterans becoming even more powerful when compared to the average player. And, no, there is no incentive in saving up the rewards of 6 months of mission grinding just to fit out a Megathron with 3 rigs you can't even remove. Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.12.08 15:59:00 - [60] Edited by: Slevin Kalebra on 08/12/2006 16:04:27 Originally by: Xsag Originally by: Doc Extropy <snip theoretical drop formula> the basic maths is ok but with over 12 different parts out there.....you could have lots of parts that u dont need.....which is entirely possible :S Never mind 'entirely possible' that's exactly what happens. I have about 15 different component types, of which I have 2-300 drops of some types and only 10-20 of others (those being the 'circuit boards' of course). Originally by: Admai Sket And WAHT? You can't remove RIGS? OMG! News to me! Rigs are like implants for ships. I believe you can remove them, but doing so destroys the rig. This is why I imagined people would actually buy multiple ships of the same type to try out different rig set-ups.

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