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Explanation: Why CCP does not give in to the 'majority'

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NocturnalDeath Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:50:00 - [1] Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 08/12/2006 09:58:51 Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 08/12/2006 09:51:01 There have been a ridiculous number of threads lately with everyone unhappy. Lots of "If you don't like it go play WoW" comments. Does CCP really want to lose subscribers? The answer isn't necessarily no. Unlike all of the big name software giants, CCP has stuck to some core values. The major one being that Eve shall remain a single shard (except for China). This puts CCP and Eve on the bleeding edge of technology. To the point that the technology and development is struggling to keep up with the subscriber growth. I think CCP are 100% happy with subscriber growth. They don't WANT 6Million players to sign up tomorrow. The server wouldn't handle it. The Devs couldn't handle it. They are happy with current subscriber growth. So whats my point? My point is they don't have to pander to the 'majority' or to carebears, or to pirates. They can make the game however the heck they want to. As long as subscriber growth doesn't fall behind their hardware and software development they will continue to make Eve how they see it. They see Eve as a faction warfare mmorpg with the best economy, tradeskilling, and skill system available. They are going to continue to push people into 0.0 and into faction warfare because that is what THEY want. I WANT IT TOO BTW! As long as enough players agree, and enough new subscribers agree, then CCP won't be pandering to a bunch of whiners expecting to be made happy, your $15/month ain't sht if there is 10 guys lined up behind you. CCP doesn't have to make it fair, they don't have to make it balanced, they have to keep their subscriber growth rate at the tiny % that it is. (compared to ramp ups of other big name MMORPG's) So if you don't like how CCP are making THEIR game, go play something developed by someone who panders to your playstyle. It isn't going to be CCP.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:54:00 - [2] Warp to Zero ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
NocturnalDeath Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Thor Xian Warp to Zero Yes the Devs gave into the current hardware limitation and took the most logical solution. It just happened to be popular by some and hated by others.
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:01:00 - [4] /me hands Nocturnal a Heat Dissipation Amplifier II While I may agree, you're going to need that. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:05:00 - [5] Originally by: NocturnalDeath Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 08/12/2006 09:58:51 Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 08/12/2006 09:51:01 There have been a ridiculous number of threads lately with everyone unhappy. Lots of "If you don't like it go play WoW" comments. Does CCP really want to lose subscribers? The answer isn't necessarily no. Unlike all of the big name software giants, CCP has stuck to some core values. The major one being that Eve shall remain a single shard (except for China). This puts CCP and Eve on the bleeding edge of technology. To the point that the technology and development is struggling to keep up with the subscriber growth. I think CCP are 100% happy with subscriber growth. They don't WANT 6Million players to sign up tomorrow. The server wouldn't handle it. The Devs couldn't handle it. They are happy with current subscriber growth. So whats my point? My point is they don't have to pander to the 'majority' or to carebears, or to pirates. They can make the game however the heck they want to. As long as subscriber growth doesn't fall behind their hardware and software development they will continue to make Eve how they see it. They see Eve as a faction warfare mmorpg with the best economy, tradeskilling, and skill system available. They are going to continue to push people into 0.0 and into faction warfare because that is what THEY want. I WANT IT TOO BTW! As long as enough players agree, and enough new subscribers agree, then CCP won't be pandering to a bunch of whiners expecting to be made happy, your $15/month ain't sht if there is 10 guys lined up behind you. CCP doesn't have to make it fair, they don't have to make it balanced, they have to keep their subscriber growth rate at the tiny % that it is. (compared to ramp ups of other big name MMORPG's) So if you don't like how CCP are making THEIR game, go play something developed by someone who panders to your playstyle. It isn't going to be CCP. Well put. Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:06:00 - [6] Originally by: NocturnalDeath Originally by: Thor Xian Warp to Zero Yes the Devs gave into the current hardware limitation and took the most logical solution. It just happened to be popular by some and hated by others. They could have killed instas without putting in a replacement. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:08:00 - [7] As long as income > expenditure then the devs can do pretty much what they want. The minute that expenditure > income then the accountants have the upper hand and decisions will be taken out of the hands of the devs. Seen it happen many times. I don't know the actual figures for mission runners vs crafters vs PvPers. I just go by what I see. I think mission runners are by far and away the largest group in Eve. And they are not happy and some are walking. This worries me. Worries me enough to buy SW:G (Daria Torres, if u see me).
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:09:00 - [8] travel times are better now but jump clones to 12 hour cycles are needed These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
NocturnalDeath Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: NocturnalDeath Originally by: Thor Xian Warp to Zero Yes the Devs gave into the current hardware limitation and took the most logical solution. It just happened to be popular by some and hated by others. They could have killed instas without putting in a replacement. Now THAT would have hurt their subscriber growth... "OMG I can't make it the 15Km in my hauler in Egglehende! Tiller is chasing me!"
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:10:00 - [10] Even if thousands of people post on the forums complaining about something they still will only constitute a very small minority of the subscriber base. CCP is fully aware of this. Don't let a very vocal minority fool you into thinking its a majority movement. That's like when some concerned parents group floods the FCC with complaints about a TV show and make it look like a majority of people care, when it's only really a few thousand nut jobs who are so obsessive that they'll take the time to make extensive complaints over and over. The vast majority of players are actually very happy with the game. It's a few thousand whiners who make it look otherwise by compulsively posting on the forums.
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron -snip- Farrellus wins the first ever "use of logic and reasoning award on the CCP general forums". Congratulations. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron It's a few thousand whiners who make it look otherwise by compulsively posting on the forums. If there was a few thousand people posting then the game would be in deep **. Its more like a few dozen. Most people dont post, don't complain that they are unhappy. They just move on. I work for a software house. The number of users of the product I work on is about the same number as Eve players. I get rants on the user forums all the time. Mostly I ignore them. But if I logged onto the forums in and saw a 40 page thread on a new feature I would ** myself. And know that something needed to be changed. Quickly.
Makree Ubar Asteroid Hugging Collective	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:30:00 - [13] Originally by: SonOTassadar Originally by: Farrellus Cameron -snip- Farrellus wins the first ever "use of logic and reasoning award on the CCP general forums". Congratulations. It just a pity that his facts are wrong.
Ulair Memmet	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:40:00 - [14] I just post an answer to the title of this thread: If CCP listen to ALL of the complains about gameplay (bugs are fine, keep complaining about them ) EVE Online would get a second SWG... Because what ppl demand here is mostly the same: "Make the game easier!" "I want everything immidiately, i dont want to invest time into it" "I want to be invincible" I hope the EVE community will someday notice, that EVE-Online is good as it is and its good that its hard to play and its good that its one of the most complicate MMORPGs currently avaidable. PS: Stop nerfing PVP ------------------------ I never used Ctrl + Q and im PROUD OF IT
Kasahara Steel Frontier Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:42:00 - [15] Tbh, im quite happy with the new patch. Yer there's problems but its like every other system in this world, they will have bugs, mircosoft for example has more holes than swiss cheese yet a lot of people use it or have to use it and we get on with it. CCP are doing a great job working on the problems and im not too fussed about it as they will be sorted, so ppl should stop ***ing about and stop bi**g cause it hasn't gone their way that they were used to.
Rshu Jhorlk	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:47:00 - [16] Originally by: Kasahara Tbh, im quite happy with the new patch. Yer there's problems but its like every other system in this world, they will have bugs, mircosoft for example has more holes than swiss cheese yet a lot of people use it or have to use it and we get on with it. CCP are doing a great job working on the problems and im not too fussed about it as they will be sorted, so ppl should stop ***ing about and stop bi**g cause it hasn't gone their way that they were used to. Is it bad that I immediately try to shoe-horn your sig into a Daft Punk rhythm?
Seldon Corran Caldari Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:58:00 - [17] The 'majority' don't post on the Forums.
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:59:00 - [18] Ok first off, Nocturnal is dead on - it is CCP's game and they do how they see fit. TBH, they remind me of elite pk'ers from the old mud/moo days of text based multiplayer games. Tons of respect for taking the old school values and implementing them in a new game. Secondly, the group that is whining shouldn't even be playing this game in the first place. They are nothing more than leechers of system resources and don't contribute to the game in any manner whatsoever. From the perspective of playerbase, they are nothing ore than a drop in the bucket. See next point. Thirdly, CCP is caterring to its majority playebase - the alliance players. It is well known that alliance members usually run multiple accounts and are common to have mission runner accounts to fund PvP activities. You don't see any of them crying in these threads. CCP has stated that the average account lifespan is 7 months, and most certainly it is longer for alliance players who have often been in the game for several years plus recruiting players to stay on longer than average. So there you have it, CCP caters to its playerbase that provides far more income than the casual players who do nothing but use system resources that end up hurting the more respected playerbase. Some idiot mission runner decided to throw in a business angle to this, so the aforementioned is a much better (and more realistic) business statement. Eve has a reputation of being a gamers true game an to tarnish that by caterring to WoW like players will only ruin the game. Stay true to spirit CCP as undoubtably you will and the game will continue to grow at the pace you dictate. By creating a strong playerbase as you have, business concerns are no longer an issue. To mission runners - it was long overdue. The rest of the playerbase wants their content, i.e. you to move out from empire. Final sign on the door will be factional warfare for which we all ge tto go back to empire for some target practice. Got to get that factional gear out into capable hands somehow.....

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:03:00 - [19] There is a vision at CCP of what EVE is and will be, and CCP will not deviate from that vision. Everything put in the game, changed etc is always looked at to make sure it follows that vision. As many of you noticed, there is still a lot of room in there for your suggestions and ideas. As for the majority, only way to do what the majority wants is to set up some sort of polling system, one vote per subscription, and get more than 50% to vote for one thing. Then you can of course discuss if it should be per subscription or per subscriber, and if it's per subscriber you can throw out the whole idea since that would be impossible to determine unless you hired a lot of people to sort everything out. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

Wadaya Caldari Tok'Ra Inc	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:16:00 - [20] This is an excellent post. It's their vision, and we get to share in it. Many great games fail when they cave in to the highly vocal but in actuality a minority. And I'm very glad that some people still know the difference between lose and loose. Wad Corpmate> Got any burned logic circuits? Wadaya> nope, go fish :P
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:21:00 - [21] Well too many multiplayer games have been ruined by the carebear crowd. They stay for a while, complain alot till they get what they what, get bored and then move on to the game of the week. Right now that is blizzard's biggest worry and is constantly plaguing SoE. Eve is different. Bunch of crazy guys from Iceland. Thank god you guys aren't influenced by so much North American business doctrine or else we wouldn't have the game that we enjoy. If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that the founders were originally in the telco world? Would make sense as you need to pass the time sitting in a noc :)
zoltar pdp	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:25:00 - [22] keep ur really gfood work CCP i was a 2003 vet swg player and i played it for 3 years, to much time to finally eat a ****. i dont want another fiasco in eve. For me is the ultimate online game keep ur vission CCP, the silent majority is with u. "sorry for my rost english"
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:26:00 - [23] Originally by: DropZone 187 Well too many multiplayer games have been ruined by the carebear crowd. They stay for a while, complain alot till they get what they what, get bored and then move on to the game of the week. Right now that is blizzard's biggest worry and is constantly plaguing SoE. QFT. Do you ******* want NGE patch for EVE? The majority does not. If you want only PVE => wow. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: NocturnalDeath Originally by: Thor Xian Warp to Zero Yes the Devs gave into the current hardware limitation and took the most logical solution. It just happened to be popular by some and hated by others. They could have killed instas without putting in a replacement. True. Warp to 15km w/o instas would've killed 0.0, but even a warp to 5km would've kept piracy alive and kept a little of EVE's size intact. But then they'd have been inundated with complaints from people who can't stand to even move 2.5km toward a gate, and who want to flit from one side of EVE to the other in an afternoon. It isn't the first time either. I'm remembering CYVOKs mass whine and how long it took CCP to cave in and change war-dec prices... ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Xaildaine	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:55:00 - [25] games run by Committee Suck balls
NiiKleagh	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:56:00 - [26] Edited by: NiiKleagh on 08/12/2006 11:57:56 Originally by: Farrellus Cameron The vast majority of players are actually very happy with the game. It's a few thousand whiners who make it look otherwise by compulsively posting on the forums. This is a load of @$!%, and proof can be seen in the markets if you're used to analyzing them. People are disgusted, and many aren't playing as much. Originally by: Splagada but at least they try their best, and in general its really fun changes. cause that's what about, right? fun Wasting inordinate amounts of time for less reward than we just had is "fun" to you? Somebody doesn't have a real job yet, do we?
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:00:00 - [27] Well working for a telco can be quite a chore or bore depending on what kind of person you are. We used to have a saying where 10% of the people do 90% of the work in a telco. The reason being was that the old timers never wanted change and would do anything to prevent progress. So if you are a go getter, you won't last long being an employee. Us consultants on the otherhand just got to play with the big toys that the lifers wouldn't touch so it was great that we got all this free expensive training from the vendors. Plus it isn't like you can go out and buy a dms and put it in your basement to play with....
Fink Angel Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:02:00 - [28] Originally by: NiiKleagh Wasting inordinate amounts of time for less reward than we just had is "fun" to you? Somebody doesn't have a real job yet, do we? I've said before that we should have two shards to lessen lag and cater for 1) Hardcore PvP. PvP all the time, everywhere. Now with more PvP (tm). 2) PvE to earn money to go and seek PvP when you want it. I'd like to change that request for two shards: 1) Eve Online - Student and Unemployed version 2) Eve Online - After work relaxation and fun version That should do it.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:04:00 - [29] Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/12/2006 12:11:20 Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: NiiKleagh Wasting inordinate amounts of time for less reward than we just had is "fun" to you? Somebody doesn't have a real job yet, do we? I've said before that we should have two shards to lessen lag and cater for 1) Hardcore PvP. PvP all the time, everywhere. Now with more PvP (tm). 2) PvE to earn money to go and seek PvP when you want it. I'd like to change that request for two shards: 1) Eve Online - Student and Unemployed version 2) Eve Online - After work relaxation and fun version That should do it. Think the: 'We play one EVE. Don't like it, don't play !' version is good enough for us all. If you want an eve-lite: Program it yourself ! Or in other words, if you split eve there will be two extremes, both worse than what we have now and less special. And the people, who like the complex relation between the different professions/playstyles would have no game left, just because some main-stream whiners want it their own wow in space. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.08 12:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: NocturnalDeath Originally by: Thor Xian Warp to Zero Yes the Devs gave into the current hardware limitation and took the most logical solution. It just happened to be popular by some and hated by others. They could have killed instas without putting in a replacement. Sure they could. They could have lost half or more of their customer base overnight, too. EVE does NOT need any more timesinks. Nor does it need the balance between (pirates and griefers) and others to be swung any more than it is towards pirates and griefers. There was a reason for all those instas existing in the first place, you know. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." ----------------------------------------------

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