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Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8245	Posted - 2015.08.12 19:20:29 - [1] - Quote I started in 2008, and returned last week after a three year hiatus. Of course, in that Golden Age, my moustache saw many bears crying at suicide ganking, as well as the odd merc-for-hire thread in See and Pee. None of this is a surprise to my Freddie Mercury-like chops. Now, however, it feels as if it's a completely different game. The ragequit posts seem to be coming thick and fast at this point; it's as if someone has been banging on a tiny drum with a matchstick and the subset of bears that do not really understand this game are crawling out of the woodwork...this is a prime example, and probably just the tip of the iceberg. On the other hand (so as Bumble doesn't face accusations of bias), See and Pee has seemingly gone from the place where EVIL PIRATES and DERRING-DO and PERSONAL DUEL CHALLENGES and HONOUR PRESERVATION, to one that curiously reads like a cross between the Sell Orders and COAD sub-fora. Case in point 1 Case in point 2 (BTW, to the organisations mentioned - you are welcome for the free facial-hair publicity) My observation is this: the basic game feels much the same. The players, though, they feel different, and the forums no longer seem quite as fun as they used to. What do you think? [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 958	Posted - 2015.08.12 19:27:50 - [2] - Quote They finally gave into the whining. Force projection got nerfed and nullsec got reworked. No one group is to blame (highsec/lowsec/nullsec/carebear/pvper). We all complained and they did the best they could. It wasn't good enough. Not today spaghetti.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6955	Posted - 2015.08.12 19:31:24 - [3] - Quote Sad part is that "Fatherland" thread is probably one of the more interesting threads of late. As to what happened, that's a good question. I'm not even entirely sure what happened. Whatever happened, it did happen sometime after the Incursion Rebellion in early 2012 and before the Great Malaise of 2014. I hope to see an actual discussion here and not highsec gankbears crying about nerfs. Hardly anybody ever complained about nerfs in C&P back in its heyday. Why? Because the only highsec operators (ninja looting and can flipping) with any organization was TEARS and the rest of the "pirates" of C&P were mainly in lowsec. The kind of people who used to frequent C&P would have welcomed suspect flagging with open arms and made such use of it they would have driven out the white knights so faster than you can torch a fedora. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8245	Posted - 2015.08.12 19:58:24 - [4] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: They finally gave into the whining. Force projection got nerfed and nullsec got reworked. No one group is to blame (highsec/lowsec/nullsec/carebear/pvper). We all complained and they did the best they could. It wasn't good enough. I guess you can't please all the people all the time, and in the end you end up with something sub-par due to all of the compromises. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8245	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:04:41 - [5] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Sad part is that "Fatherland" thread is probably one of the more interesting threads of late. As to what happened, that's a good question. I'm not even entirely sure what happened. Whatever happened, it did happen sometime after the Incursion Rebellion in early 2012 and before the Great Malaise of 2014. What happened with those two events? I'm sure I could Google it, but it'd be more illuminating to have a forum warrior's view on things Quote: I hope to see an actual discussion here and not highsec gankbears crying about nerfs. Me too - any that pop in will be quickly reported. Quote: Hardly anybody ever complained about nerfs in C&P back in its heyday. Why? Because the only highsec operators (ninja looting and can flipping) with any organization was TEARS and the rest of the "pirates" of C&P were mainly in lowsec. The kind of people who used to frequent C&P would have welcomed suspect flagging with open arms and made such use of it they would have driven out the white knights faster than you can torch a fedora. You betcha, good observation. I suppose I can see, even with my limited time back here, that things were more clearly delineated than they used to be. Now...I don't even know what you'd call it! Quote: To me, it just seemed like real "characters", people with personality, are gone and most of the players left are just aspergian min-maxers who started out as those kids you see in the backs of SUVs with their noses up to their handheld games every waking minute. C&P was full of characters, people who ganked and tanked for the heck of it. Most of this place seems to be populated by cardboard-cutout non-entities who leave no impression whatsoever. Of course there are exceptions, but the median quality seems to have dipped. Like you said, there used to be characters you could actively engage with and - God forbid - even like. Now...meh. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 22700	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:48:07 - [6] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: ... the forums no longer seem quite as fun as they used to. What do you think? Agreed. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6958	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:49:31 - [7] - Quote The Incursion Rebellion was basically a riot that raised the issue that the incursion ISK spigot was too good. Yes, there was in fact some nerf to incursion income (hard for some to believe). But at roughly 1 year from the start of incursion content, the community had issues. It had become somewhat elitist or exclusionary and certain incursion sites could be turbo farmed by this one clique and were. So some in the incursion community started up considerable rabble rousing in C&P and asked for help there to disrupt incursions as a form of protest. I remember flying with Darius III in this endeavor though my role was of no significance and simply felt that the incursion community needed to be addressed. What they started doing was killing the incursion mothership, the "Sansha Mom" as we'd call it, as a means to ending incursions early. You see it was bad enough that sites could be turbo-farmed it was worse that the mom could be left alone for days on end while the sites were farmed. So with the help of people like Darius III and some nullsec crews, started to pop the moms as soon as they appeared. The absolute hatred garnered from the elite-minded entrenched incursioners pretty much proved the point over how some people can become a bit too entitled, even for my taste, and I have a lot of tolerance for that in a video game. The Great Malaise of 2014 simply happened. By 2014 the blue donut was all but complete, with what amounted to token skirmishes and harvesting Brave members. That was not the entire reason though. By this time, the game was starting to suffer under the weight of too many mechanics servicing those players whose idea of playing the game is to deny playing the game to others. Even with some deployables meant to overcome that, it was too late. Too much death camping, too much station games and camping, too much instaloki and way too much BLOPs drop along with the blue donut had turned the game into a big meh and even the bored goons who had taken to highsec ganking were starting to show it. The game does not appear to have fully recovered from it, but the damage from it appears to be abated for now (read: people are not leaving the game as much as they used to). Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8246	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:52:14 - [8] - Quote The funny thing is, I do seem to remember Darius III and the whole See and Pee thing (that started just before I left, though, so I didn't see it to it's conclusion). That would probably seem to be to mark the last fun 'hurrah' of the game (thus far), and the Great Malaise probably just drove the nails down. Good to hear that retention has increased though. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Retired Raver Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.08.12 20:52:39 - [9] - Quote This happened.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6958	Posted - 2015.08.12 21:04:14 - [10] - Quote Retired Raver wrote: This happened. The problem being addressed here has more to do with C&P and the forums in general, the kind of players we used to have, and not related to Fozzie SOV. Fozzie SOV could be an attempt to address the Great Malaise, as was jump fatigue to some extent. But the new SOV is too new to give credit to issues that have been around longer. Will it succeed? I have no idea. It would be nice to see an expansion that "brings it all back". That would have to be a doozy. I fear maybe people are just getting older. (Funny, I get more interested in the game as I get older, not less) Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Paranoid Loyd 6631	Posted - 2015.08.12 21:08:51 - [11] - Quote There may be a psychological aspect to it. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Arla Sarain 596	Posted - 2015.08.12 21:19:15 - [12] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: They finally gave into the whining. Force projection got nerfed and nullsec got reworked. No one group is to blame (highsec/lowsec/nullsec/carebear/pvper). We all complained and they did the best they could. It wasn't good enough. I guess you can't please all the people all the time, and in the end you end up with something sub-par due to all of the compromises. See this is bull**** (no personal offense, but this mindset is floating a lot through many games). It's a very melancholic ultimatum, that's simply giving into the easiest conclusion possible - hey things are the way they are. We might not make human minds, but we do make entertainment. The more systematic we are the more we understand. Somewhere along the line, somebody just decided to cut corners and take the easy path. They made a short term profit out of it, but as a consequence screwed everybody else over long-term. Take the new sov - there is this outdated paradigm that to own something, it should have your label on it. Which is a false concept - lowsec is owned by SNUFF and ShadowCartel, yet I see no flags.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 51141	Posted - 2015.08.12 22:05:24 - [13] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: I started in 2008, and returned last week after a three year hiatus. Of course, in that Golden Age, my moustache saw many bears crying at suicide ganking, as well as the odd merc-for-hire thread in See and Pee. None of this is a surprise to my Freddie Mercury-like chops. Welcome back to Eve Online. Bumblefck wrote: Now, however, it feels as if it's a completely different game. The ragequit posts seem to be coming thick and fast at this point; it's as if someone has been banging on a tiny drum with a matchstick and the subset of bears that do not really understand this game are crawling out of the woodwork...this is a prime example, and probably just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, this game is completely different now. Lot's of changes constantly being made to Eve just for the sake of change. Most without being beta tested first. Why ? I don't know, maybe because some Dev thinks it's a great idea or maybe they just need to justify being employed. Anyway, proposed changes that are tested and found defective by the playerbase are still put into the game despite player feedback. Remember when CCP stated their Commitment To Excellence around the Incarna incident? Yeah, not many remember that pledge since it was short lived due to other issues. Bumblefck wrote: On the other hand (so as Bumble doesn't face accusations of bias), See and Pee has seemingly gone from the place where EVIL PIRATES and DERRING-DO and PERSONAL DUEL CHALLENGES and HONOUR PRESERVATION, to one that curiously reads like a cross between the Sell Orders and COAD sub-fora. Case in point 1 Case in point 2 (BTW, to the organisations mentioned - you are welcome for the free facial-hair publicity) My observation is this: the basic game feels much the same. The players, though, they feel different, and the forums no longer seem quite as fun as they used to. What do you think? Can't say anything about C&P sub-forum. As for the forums themselves, CCP has pretty much placed a 'Gag Order' on all threads and or replies that portray the game and or the company in a negative viewpoint. In fact, this reply is probably in that classification now. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 9047	Posted - 2015.08.12 22:07:46 - [14] - Quote It's all your fault, Bumblefck. If you hadn't left the game, none of this would have happened. Do not ever...EVER...do that again. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Marsha Mallow 2432	Posted - 2015.08.12 22:41:28 - [15] - Quote The EvE-o forums are quieter now but player run sites are fairly active. It's been blamed on heavy handed moderation here, but tbh it looks more to me like the good posters moved onto player sites and rarely bother here anymore. There's too many subforums here, too many alt-posters and tbh the forum tools are just shabby. Kugu is down and Shitheap is still horrendous, but r/eve is pretty noisy - and not entirely in a good way. Player run news sites have pulled away a lot of the types likely to write lengthy posts (or engage in a bit of back-and-forth) but the comments sections are worth a look. Have a look at these: Total Eve! Eve News24 Crossing Zebras The Mittani.com Stellar Relic Forum activity in general seems to be down, unless it's one liners (which the reddit design supports by compressing the posts so you can skim the crap). TMC and en24 attempted to plug the Kugu hole (there's a Zugu somewhere too) but the trend seemed to have passed. Eve related Twitter activity is really high. I commented 3 times during Incarna and have 150 followers, following 700 or something - I just go through and add them every now and then, and jeeeeesus they never shut up. Devs remark a fair bit on twitter and reddit but other than that they only seem to post here when they have to as well. Wb btw, save us Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE! Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 179	Posted - 2015.08.12 23:14:23 - [16] - Quote What happened is Goons figured out numbers matter and got bigger and bigger as needed. Few tried to fight but got blue balled and blobbed. Most just chose to pay rent and become a Goon. Now they have numbers, Isk, and many players with decent amount of skill points. In conclusion: Goons won Eve.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 39493	Posted - 2015.08.12 23:46:16 - [17] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: The EvE-o forums are quieter now ... but tbh it looks more to me like the good posters moved onto player sites and rarely bother here anymore You're still here though, so not all bad. UaE too. Jonah, Lloyd and a few others (not going to name all in case I miss some). Still some quality content here, just mixed in with a lot of people who think the forum is worse than it really is. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Vortexo VonBrenner Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord 2085	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:24:00 - [18] - Quote Well...they say you can't go home again... ITT: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
Retired Raver Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 08:41:33 - [19] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The problem being addressed here has more to do with C&P and the forums in general, the kind of players we used to have, and not related to Fozzie SOV. Fozzie SOV could be an attempt to address the Great Malaise, as was jump fatigue to some extent. But the new SOV is too new to give credit to issues that have been around longer. Will it succeed? I have no idea. It would be nice to see an expansion that "brings it all back". That would have to be a doozy. I fear maybe people are just getting older. (Funny, I get more interested in the game as I get older, not less) Okay. Well, this is what happens when trolls are allowed to run rampant here. General Discussion is 90% trolling. If these forums are crap you only have yourselves to blame, and one other reason I'm not allowed to mention because rules.
Zimmy Zeta Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 59277	Posted - 2015.08.13 09:45:10 - [20] - Quote Retired Raver wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The problem being addressed here has more to do with C&P and the forums in general, the kind of players we used to have, and not related to Fozzie SOV. Fozzie SOV could be an attempt to address the Great Malaise, as was jump fatigue to some extent. But the new SOV is too new to give credit to issues that have been around longer. Will it succeed? I have no idea. It would be nice to see an expansion that "brings it all back". That would have to be a doozy. I fear maybe people are just getting older. (Funny, I get more interested in the game as I get older, not less) Okay. Well, this is what happens when trolls are allowed to run rampant here. General Discussion is 90% trolling. If these forums are crap you only have yourselves to blame, and one other reason I'm not allowed to mention because rules. General Discussion has always been 90% trolling, that doesn't explain the issues Bumble was talking about. I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
flakeys Arkham Innovations 3202	Posted - 2015.08.13 09:59:57 - [21] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: I started in 2008, and returned last week after a three year hiatus. Of course, in that Golden Age, my moustache saw many bears crying at suicide ganking, as well as the odd merc-for-hire thread in See and Pee. None of this is a surprise to my Freddie Mercury-like chops. Now, however, it feels as if it's a completely different game. The ragequit posts seem to be coming thick and fast at this point; it's as if someone has been banging on a tiny drum with a matchstick and the subset of bears that do not really understand this game are crawling out of the woodwork...this is a prime example, and probably just the tip of the iceberg. On the other hand (so as Bumble doesn't face accusations of bias), See and Pee has seemingly gone from the place where EVIL PIRATES and DERRING-DO and PERSONAL DUEL CHALLENGES and HONOUR PRESERVATION, to one that curiously reads like a cross between the Sell Orders and COAD sub-fora. Case in point 1 Case in point 2 (BTW, to the organisations mentioned - you are welcome for the free facial-hair publicity) My observation is this: the basic game feels much the same. The players, though, they feel different, and the forums no longer seem quite as fun as they used to. What do you think? I think that lately there are a lot of posts by former eve players who return to this game and immediatly come complaining on the forum how X or Y has changed and how it all was better in the 'old days'. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Yourmoney Mywallet Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation 527	Posted - 2015.08.13 10:48:52 - [22] - Quote flakeys wrote: I think that lately there are a lot of posts by former eve players who return to this game and immediatly come complaining on the forum how X or Y has changed and how it all was better in the 'old days'. And they're all right, too.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2174	Posted - 2015.08.13 11:19:40 - [23] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: ... My observation is this: the basic game feels much the same. The players, though, they feel different, and the forums no longer seem quite as fun as they used to. What do you think? If you want to grab this game by the b***s and really make it sing and dance? This is what you need to do: Get a bunch of people together, form an alliance. Gank those carebear Code's bowheads, orcas and bumping macherials. Find out where the Null Sec alliances are hauling their stuff to and from, gank their freights and jump freighters. Heavily target the hauling companies, like Red Frog, get a spy in there, see where they will haul from and get an AFK cloaker to watch (don't blow its cover). Go after those High Sec merc companies that sit around trade hubs and on the main travel routes, who crush newbies corps for "lulz" and "content" Do all of that for fun, to shake things up. Don't have any reason that people can use to divert you. Don't do it for newbies so they can hostage them. Don't do it for ISK so they can bribe you. Just get in and murder the ones that are killing your beloved game. I look forward to you posting results instead of more discussion threads. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
flakeys Arkham Innovations 3202	Posted - 2015.08.13 12:16:59 - [24] - Quote Yourmoney Mywallet wrote: flakeys wrote: I think that lately there are a lot of posts by former eve players who return to this game and immediatly come complaining on the forum how X or Y has changed and how it all was better in the 'old days'. And they're all right, too. I can name you a ton of things that we had in 2004 wich have vanished/changed over time wich i much rather still have in the game yet i can't recall making complaint threads over them.That includes both the game and the players. For instance there used to be a time when only carebears made whinethreads , now the ''tough boys'' make the same amount if not more of these threads. Ahhh good old days eh , sometimes you just wish you could have stayed that 14 year old boy ... though when you where that 14 year old boy then everything was bad bad bad and you couldn't wait for things to change. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 959	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:10:06 - [25] - Quote Arla Sarain wrote: See this is bull**** (no personal offense, but this mindset is floating a lot through many games). It's a very melancholic ultimatum, that's simply giving into the easiest conclusion possible - hey things are the way they are. We might not make human minds, but we do make entertainment. The more systematic we are the more we understand. Somewhere along the line, somebody just decided to cut corners and take the easy path. They made a short term profit out of it, but as a consequence screwed everybody else over long-term. Take the new sov - there is this outdated paradigm that to own something, it should have your label on it. Which is a false concept - lowsec is owned by SNUFF and ShadowCartel, yet I see no flags. It's a brave new world. Not today spaghetti.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6777	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:16:58 - [26] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I look forward to you posting results instead of more discussion threads. I wouldn't count on it, this is GD ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Soul Reaver Alcohol Fuelled Ghosts of Deep Space 0	Posted - 2015.08.13 15:38:08 - [27] - Quote I'd like to chip in on this one being as I'm one of the original players. I got the game in early June 03 so have been playing now for hmmm 13 years ROFL. I Played solo for a few weeks and then joined a small Corp that were trying to learn PvP. I LOVED the game, the fear of never knowing what was going to happen to me and my ship hooked me in at an early stage. A LOT has happened in 13 years both to me and also in this game! I have traveled the world, had in game friends die (In real life) and been married twice. These posts make me smile because I can remember reading posts like this 13 years ago! Back then we used to call it "The Nerf bat of gay abandon" because every week something got "Nerfed" and you seemed to lose some edge that you had. In that first week of play I got killed by Mo0 and everybody moaned about them! I mean everybody. I didn't because I loved them, I loved how they made my heart jump out of chest! I felt real FEAR which is very unusual for a game! I was hooked in. You see for me a game where I can't lose anything and there are no consequences, well it's WOW isn't it. You know that big hugs and love in that masquerades as an MMORPG. EvE is just not like that and I thank the stars it isn't as there are enough of those children's games out there. I hope CCP keep the game the way it is to be honest, yes make occasional changes to mechanics and ships but also to allow pirates and gankers to kill the unwary. If you don't want to be killed by pirates and gankers then I'm sorry for you but what you really need is to learn how to play the game in a way so that does not happen to you or at least you minimize the risk of it happening. Now I know that may sound harsh but you need to learn to fit correctly and to scout and use Scan etc and also you need to understand that it is after all just a game and no game can satisfy all the people all the time. people will come and go, ive seen thousands over 13 years! Who cares, let them. Does it ever need discussion like it's some new topic? Play for your own reasons and enjoy it and when you stop enjoying it move on but don't cancel your character because later on you will regret it and want to come back!
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 375	Posted - 2015.08.13 16:18:43 - [28] - Quote What's happaned? Well a lot of loosers are saying that Eve is dying and the quantity of current active accounts somehow confirms that. A lot of another loosers are complaying that there is a huge issue with n+1 meta and they simply cant handle that. CCP just keeps ingnoring both groups. A small amount of winners just enjoy scrolling eve forums and give likes to each other.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 50238	Posted - 2015.08.13 16:21:26 - [29] - Quote Tiddle Jr wrote: A small amount of winners just enjoy scrolling eve forums and give likes to each other. Have a like, sir. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Zimmy Zeta Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 59280	Posted - 2015.08.13 16:50:55 - [30] - Quote I think it's a natural process that forum /game celebrities leave and get replaced by others over the course of 11 years, it's a generation thing. We all have a real lives (most of us at least), grow older and eventually quit playing due to RL obligations. When I started reading the forums, people like tarminic or Weirda were the superstars. After they quit the game, others rose to fame and took their places. It's a nostalgia thing that we always look backwards to the good times we had, but it's just as reasonable to assume that there are people who are equally awesome right now amongst us- they just haven't been given their chance to shine yet. So, all you diamonds in the rough, please step up now, so we can troll you, flame you, wardec you and burn down everything you ever held dear (in game of course). It's the Eve way. I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

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