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probing mission runners in 0.0 and low sec is fair atm

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Mitram Grey Group	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:00:00 - [31] "Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated" seems to be a troll family. ;-p When I first read about the scanner probe changes in "game development" while it was still in test I mentioned that it will hurt mission runner hard. No one listened to me then. Before it was already quite easy to locate mission runners and kill them. Happened to me twice. Now its a joke. Lets say 30 seconds scan, a recon ship with 40km of warp scramble range and a gang of children with toys ... Missions in low-sec are a no-go right now. I haven't done missions lately. So are they now all in deadspace? If there are mission outside in low-sec the upcomming scanner changes on Wednesday will not full help.
Doppler Shift	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:39:00 - [32] Edited by: Doppler Shift on 09/12/2006 14:39:54 Heh... Fact1: Ratting has nothing in common with mission running. The letters P, v, and E are the sole common things. If anyone has a disagreement on that, I will hear their opinion right AFTER they have tried :a) ratting in a tech 1 pvp ship (I do that all the time), then b) Going through Worlds Collide lvl4 in a pvp ship (ROFLMAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHA). What does being scrambled by 2 frigates have in common with being scrambled by 7 interceptors and 5 assault frigs? Fact2: Ratting was ABSOLUTELY BALANCED to factor in the possibility of hostile player interference. Missions were not. Does the fact that a ship and a friggin fleet are different words with different meaning tell you something? If anyone believes it is the same thing to fight against a bs with 2 frig escorts, than fighting a a fleet of 8 BS, 15 cruisers, assorted frigs, scramblers and webbers, he is free to come pirating to my home system, se what his success is against a MEMBER of my corp then against the BULK of my corp. Fact3: In fact, I don't really give a damn, but I am afraid someone is missing the point. I do not think that the way missions are scanned should change - I believe that missions should be rebalanced to factor in the possibility of player interference. Low-sec missioners should by no means be invulnerable - but they should not be fed to the lions either...
madnight	Posted - 2006.12.09 23:20:00 - [33] notice how the only dips responding to this and argueing about it is dna? stand for all for themselfs low lofe scum that will see no point of view but there own becouse they still suckle on mommy.. sad are they not... ccp will change it then they will all cry so just ignore the little children
Zacha Nioto	Posted - 2006.12.10 00:23:00 - [34] This thread is generally just a big smack fest. From both sides of the fence. Can we just agree on the following two statements? 1) Running missions in low-sec shouldn't be risk-free. 2) Probing out a mission runner shouldn't be a one-click insta-win.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.10 00:59:00 - [35] Heh... Enough of us runners agree with 1), but good luck getting the gankbears to agree with 2) --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Tribunal FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.10 01:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Zacha Nioto This thread is generally just a big smack fest. From both sides of the fence. Can we just agree on the following two statements? 1) Running missions in low-sec shouldn't be risk-free. 2) Probing out a mission runner shouldn't be a one-click insta-win. Running missions in low sec has NEVER been risk free. Everytime I come to this forum I feel the IQ being drained from my brain. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Dragon Lord	Posted - 2006.12.10 01:17:00 - [37] hmm find a mission runner in 2 minutes in low sec = dead mission runner end off. it takes longer than 2 minutes to kill the elite scrammer frigs on alot of lvl4s, so how the hell do u warp if u see a pirate at a gate? oh and dont say wcs's u know they screw ur ship. I run high sec always have so couldnt care about low sec mission runners, but since low sec mission runners are proberbly a good sourse of imcome for u pirates if you can gank them and lets all agree its now very very easy to do. what are you pirates gonna hunt when they all leave for high sec? guess you will have to content ur selves with shooting roids
Lasati	Posted - 2006.12.10 03:06:00 - [38] Edited by: Lasati on 10/12/2006 03:07:11 The real problem is that PvP and Mission Running fittings are the complete opposite. The other problem is that on missions the NPCs can tackle you with everything a player can. You want to talk about risk... what's the risk to the PvPer? He probes, warps in, his target is already tanking 1/2 the room and possibly tackled. And his target's fittings are all for PvE. Even more, the PvPer knows exactly what the Mission Runner is going to fit, based on the damage type of the NPCs in the room. I like to be a problem solver, so here's my solution. When someone enters a room in a mission who is not ganged with anyone already in the room, each NPC within targeting range has a 50% chance of re-targetting the new guy that just showed up in the room. Or do PvPers not like risk?
Celestal	Posted - 2006.12.10 05:02:00 - [39] Lol this whole thread is about dna pretending to be pvp ers rather then just lo sec gate campers / killers of indies/freighters/shuttles/noobs , Why whine about miners in a mission forum ? lemme guess , when your skoda breaks down you whine to a bmw dealer in the hope it immpresses onlookers ?
ToyGirl	Posted - 2006.12.10 09:49:00 - [40] Quote: The whole POINT of EVE is PVP... Ye Gods, not another 1! Quote: Can we just agree on the following two statements? 1) Running missions in low-sec shouldn't be risk-free. 2) Probing out a mission runner shouldn't be a one-click insta-win Best posting in this thread.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.10 19:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Daimoness Scanning mission spots should be as hard as it was before Kali. Yes, it was possible before, but it required skill and preparation on the side of the prospective ganker. Now every no-brainer that is looking for easy kills can do it, which makes the whole idea pointless. I'm just glad I have access to 0.0 - much safer to do missions there. This game is about balance. Right now the balance between risk and reward is broken in low-sec. If I was to do lvl-4-missions now, I'd just find myself a good high-sec area with no lowsec within 2 jumps and go for it. Ganking mission runners in low-sec is lame. It takes no skill and no power. Basically it's a sport for those that don't want to risk a real head-on with people skilled and fitted for PvP. I was going to post...but then I saw this and realised someone had said everything I wanted to say. The only way ganking mission runners could get any easier now is if we all made a bookmark to our mission and left it in a can at the gate for the pirates to find - oh, and then kept telling them in local where to find it...for the really, REALLY dumb ones... --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them.
Arain	Posted - 2006.12.11 07:20:00 - [42] Its simple really as it stands now No one in thier right mind will run low sec missions. So the only mission runners the PvPers have to gank or those that have been away from the game for a while and come back not knowing things changed. So before long the big bad low sec pirates will have no one at all to go after. How does that benifit them. Not to mention the other down sides of the current system. Such as more people in secure space causeing lag, unhappy people who have had a major change in the game they pay to play, who might just say ....... this and go give thier money to some other company. And to all those that think the only reason this game exists is for PvP, get a clue, it would not be half the game it is now without the majority of players who pay thier fees to CCP and don't wish to get griefed. I really wish CCP would do a experiment just to educate some "experts" who know all about this game. Run a split server for 1 month. Put all the players who want nothing to do with PvP on one server, and the hardcore PvP full time players on the other and give the rest a choice of which one they wanted to play. On the PvP server eliminate secure space completely, so no place was safe for anyone. On the PvE server as the security level went down make the NPC mobs much more aggressive and numerous. With NPC gate camps and other things to make things interesting. Be curious to see how many people went to each server and stayed. Since the experiment would be limited to 1 month I doubt it would be the end of EVE as the PvP crowd has always said a split server would be, but it might give both the PvP crowd and the DEV's a differnt perspective on how thier average player feels about the state of PvP in the game.
Tammarr	Posted - 2006.12.11 12:08:00 - [43] Strange how ppl say noone will run missions in lowsec, I see plenty of players running alot of missions here, pirates snoop by now and then, then they leave most commonly. Oh, how is this possible!!!?? Well, we play the game as its supposed to be played, its an mmog, not a spog(it even sounds abit like spam and noone wants spam) so we have teamed up, corporations, allies etc. Sadly we dont bother about greedy no good mission runners whom only come to the area to fly missions safe under our protection without coming into gangs to chase the lowly pirate scum away, but I think we all agree that someone who only does missions for his wallet and dont spend any time or effort to defend his "agent space" is worth nothing, throw them to the pirates I say. The best part about all this would be that hopefully lowsec will soon be cleared of all the the spogers whom never had intent of playing togheter with others or try to stand up against pirates for their "right" to run missions in a system/constellation. So am I all for the quick probing? No not realy, its to fast to locate a missionrunner as it stands now, normal space its great with 80sec to probe someone out(yeah I know I dont have the best skills so 80 sec it is) Just make the use of bigger/lower sized probes usefull, no need to use a snoop when you can simply use a spook... thats all I'am asking, will take abit longer to probe down giving the missionrunner more then 2 minutes to note someone unknown/hostile in local is ample time I would say. If I failed to note a unknown in 0.0 or even lowsec and I'am mining/ratting the belts for two minutes I'd lost plenty of battleships. Oh that fancy time bonus? Well, perhaps working togheter with others to know if a pirate comes in, paying attentin and standing up for your space will let you finish your lowsec(aka you can get killed but receive more pay) missions on time and thus receive the bonus. Slap a pirate on the fingers today, slap him in the groin tomorrow and after that he wont come back.
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:03:00 - [44] so to sum it up: people who are against the new probing systems are selfish losers, cowards and generally clueless. people who have adapted to the changes and responded by playing as a team are the real stuff. when lvl4's get booted to lowsec, we may start having some fun. bears vs pirates on a larger scale, and losers who cant fend for themselves... well, they were a bunch of losers to begin with. Make ECCM viable! Give it 25% to scanning resolution!
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:41:00 - [45] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 11/12/2006 14:42:15 Originally by: Nahia Senne so to sum it up: people who are against the new probing systems are selfish losers, cowards and generally clueless. people who have adapted to the changes and responded by playing as a team are the real stuff. when lvl4's get booted to lowsec, we may start having some fun. bears vs pirates on a larger scale, and losers who cant fend for themselves... well, they were a bunch of losers to begin with. Or to sum it up: People who support the ultra-easy-mode probing are are selfish losers, cowards and generally clueless. People who have been probing out runners before Kali are the real stuff. If CCPs fix works, we may have our fun back, the real pirates will still be able to probe runners albeit not effortless anymore, and the gankbears who can only get off on attacking an easy target with next to no risk and the main purpose of causing others grief are back to gatecamping and suiciding, as befit for the bunch of losers they are. See, two sides to the same coin... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:39:00 - [46] @OP Your opinion doesnt matter. The fear that mission runner will quite paying and playing - that does matter. Wherever you went - here you are.
So'Kar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.12 18:36:00 - [47] Edited by: So''Kar on 12/12/2006 18:38:43 Easy fix Put all lvl 3 missions to low sec Put all lvl 4 missions to 0.0 Then the current mission runners wont enjoy the luxury of having your station and gates bubbled by mobiles and dictors while getting probed out. Im sick of this high sec lvl 4 mission, essentially it removes a part of eve. Eve was not built so you can sit in a npc corp in high sec running lvl 4s 24/7 for 10 months straight, it is centered around pvp and corporations. The point of making isk is to buy better toys to kill more people, faster.
Exlegion Caldari Legion's Knight	Posted - 2006.12.12 18:46:00 - [48] Edited by: Exlegion on 12/12/2006 18:50:59 Edited by: Exlegion on 12/12/2006 18:48:36 Originally by: So'Kar Edited by: So''Kar on 12/12/2006 18:38:43 Easy fix Put all lvl 3 missions to low sec Put all lvl 4 missions to 0.0 Then the current mission runners wont enjoy the luxury of having your station and gates bubbled by mobiles and dictors while getting probed out. Im sick of this high sec lvl 4 mission, essentially it removes a part of eve. Eve was not built so you can sit in a npc corp in high sec running lvl 4s 24/7 for 10 months straight, it is centered around pvp and corporations. The point of making isk is to buy better toys to kill more people, faster. Easier fix: Why doesn't CCP just remove people like you from the game since people like you full with jealousy and childishness are making me sick God, you guys just never give up, heh. I ENJOY SPENDING MY ISK ON SHIPS JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT!!!! Why does THAT BOTHER YOU??? You like destroying shipS. I like pimping them out and taking them out for spins!!!!!!!! If that bothers you so much Why don't YOU leave the game?
Aralt Aran	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:06:00 - [49] Most guys i know only do missions to buy ships for pvp ,we don`t like mining. Since we can`t do that in low any more we gona do that in empire ,and since alot ships are getting year after year more expensive we need to do more missions for those t2 ships we even can`t ensure .Lets see ,hmm alot missions are nerfed also means ,i mean farming is over . And for use guys with 1 account ,think a good game you can play with 1 account ,it is they only thing in eve we can do to rais money with a fighter char.Wish there wher other things then missions ,like real bounty hunting on low standings guys.But seems the low standings guys are hunting use.
So'Kar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:08:00 - [50] Edited by: So''Kar on 12/12/2006 19:09:54 Why would i be jealous, i make 10x what you make in empire running 0.0 missions. And if you dont believe me ask anyone who runs pirate faction missions and try to get them to reveal how much isk they really make. It will be rare to find such a person.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:57:00 - [51] Go back to 1.0 space, carebears. No one promised you a saftey blanket to let you do anything you wanted in peace. If I can run missions in 0.0 without dying, then you can run missions in low sec without dying. Mission with a proto cloak on and if hostiles appear, warp to a safespot, then cloak. Blam, you're safe. Or, warp to zero on the station insystem and instadock. Blam, you're safe again. This game is primarily about PVP, not PVE. The designers of this game were for the most part PKers in Ultima Online, which this game follows the philosophy of extensively. Originally by: Khavi Vetali Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:16:00 - [52] Originally by: So'Kar Eve was not built so you can sit in a npc corp in high sec running lvl 4s 24/7 for 10 months straight, it is centered around pvp and corporations. See, I was labouring under the misconception that CCP made EVE, not you. They wrote a game with agents in high sec that give out level 4's. Kind of implies that they intended for at least SOME people to run them. And to the last poster - mission running in 0.0 is a lot easier than mission running in low sec. It's simply about population density...you probably have a maximum of ten people in your 0.0 system...0.4's are pretty much all chokepoints and so have 10's or 100's of people in them...most of them pirates. So yeah...we could move to 0.0 and have things slightly easier. but some of us also like to experience OTHER aspects of this wonderful game, like trading and so on...and I've BEEN to 0.0, and there's precious little on the market...largely because there's one station about every 20 jumps. Just 'cos YOU don't want to do that, doesn't mean you can force everyone else not to...same as I wouldn't DREAM of forcing you to stay in high sec and run missions if you don't want to. In general, the strength of the carebear argument is greater than that of the pirate. The carebears are happy for anyone to play the way he or she chooses - and they accept that as a direct result of that, they MAY lose ships. The pirates don't want anyone to play the game in any way differnet to the way that THEY want to play it. I try to resist namecalling of pirates...but the one tag that is INESCAPABLE for them is "selfish". They want it their way, or no way at all. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:26:00 - [53] As a previous poster said, no one's forcing you to run missions in low sec where you can be killed. There are lots of L4 agents in high sec. And, actually, you're wrong about 0.0 I run L4s in Poitot when I'm not off to the wars, and the local pirates are rather dense and also proactive about scanning people out there. Originally by: Khavi Vetali Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
Exlegion Caldari Legion's Knight	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:31:00 - [54] Edited by: Exlegion on 12/12/2006 20:32:11 Originally by: Berrik Radhok As a previous poster said, no one's forcing you to run missions in low sec where you can be killed. There are lots of L4 agents in high sec. I agree with you on that. Except that when you have idiots spouting: Quote: Easy fix Put all lvl 3 missions to low sec Put all lvl 4 missions to 0.0 Then the current mission runners wont enjoy the luxury of having your station and gates bubbled by mobiles and dictors while getting probed out. Im sick of this high sec lvl 4 mission, essentially it removes a part of eve. Eve was not built so you can sit in a npc corp in high sec running lvl 4s 24/7 for 10 months straight, it is centered around pvp and corporations. The point of making isk is to buy better toys to kill more people, faster. it kind of makes it difficult to even run missions in high sec. Comments like that, advocating the removal of all missions from high sec is simply just trolling.
So'Kar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.13 18:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 12/12/2006 20:32:11 it kind of makes it difficult to even run missions in high sec. Comments like that, advocating the removal of all missions from high sec is simply just trolling. WTF did i say all missions? Additionally running missions in high sec and even low sec is much more time efficient than 0.0 You must move your modules, ships, bpos to deep 0.0 through many hostile gate camps. Then gather minerals and find factories to build ammo. If you lose your ship its another few hours traveling to empire, buy and fit then travel back down with all the added risks again. Simple said, the rewards of lvl 4s in high sec is far too great compared to the relative safety.
Exlegion Caldari Legion's Knight	Posted - 2006.12.13 18:44:00 - [56] Originally by: So'Kar WTF did i say all missions? Additionally running missions in high sec and even low sec is much more time efficient than 0.0 You're right. I should be thanking you for allowing the level 1's and 2's to stay in high sec.
Magnus Card Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.13 18:55:00 - [57] Originally by: So'Kar Edited by: So''Kar on 12/12/2006 19:09:54 Why would i be jealous, i make 10x what you make in empire running 0.0 missions. And if you dont believe me ask anyone who runs pirate faction missions and try to get them to reveal how much isk they really make. It will be rare to find such a person. Then why do you care so much about what other people do? If you make that much then why does it matter if some guy 50 jumps from you runs a mission and doesnÆt want to pvp? The truth is you want everyone to have your play style and are willing to force that upon them. Would you like it if the mission runners play style were forced upon you and you couldn't PvP? No you wouldn't. So stop with the BS and let people play the way they want.
Yasuki Orie Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:02:00 - [58] In what way is the reward for lvl 4 mission in high sec too high? I think that if anything it is too low.
So'Kar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:33:00 - [59] come on post with your mains.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:55:00 - [60] I canna do it, Captain, the mains are offline! - Scotty -- Guile can always trump hardware --

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