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Apolitos
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Posted - 2006.12.09 11:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Apolitos on 09/12/2006 12:04:27
I always wondering why you have to "waste" 1 hi-slot to put 1 "weaker" weapon (light medium, large).
I know is there a difference on them on tracking speed, signature, explosion radius etc but....
I ll make an example, dont get stuck to numbers, just look the idea and let DEVs to gind it for balance.
New category for battleships: missle/turret array (nothing has to do with POS thinkie), you can use it in hi-slot (missle/turret).
There are 2 versions of it, can have "3 light weapons" or "2 medium weapons" as already can fit 1 "large" weapon from itself.
Example on the above, at the "3 light weapons" version you can fit 3 light blasters/rails/beams, light missles launchers etc. and at "2 medium weapons" you can fit 2 med rails, blasts,beams, launchers etc.
Also an advanced turret array/missles battery version for capital ships. as cap ships uses XL size weapons for hi-slots it ll be 3 different arrays/batteries for it.
"5 light weapons", "3 medium weapons" and "2 large weapons" arrays/batteries.
With the above you could specialize more your size to a "size killer":
"light weapons" battery/array you make it a frig size killer,
"medium weapons" array/bat cruiser size killer,
"large weapons" array/bat battleship size killer.
I dont know if the above seems way overpowered, but as i said at start dont stuck at weapons number you can fit let DEVs to figure out its "balanced" version.
EDIT: Also as i see below, each ship will have a max array/bat that can fit. You cant fit 24 rails/blasters on a megathorn or 18 standard missle launcher on a raven.
No matter how specialized will be they are still battleships/capital ships and must carry their size weapons too.
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Ella Nakada
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Posted - 2006.12.09 11:47:00 -
[2]
/me sees a raven spamming out 18 T2 heavy missiles and whimpers
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Apolitos
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Posted - 2006.12.09 11:57:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Ella Nakada
/me sees a raven spamming out 18 T2 heavy missiles and whimpers
No T2's, just the "basic" class weapon. you can fit 3 x75mm or 3x125mm or 3x150mm rails and NOT 3x75mm scout/CC/carbide gun.
I hope this help a bit more.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.09 12:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Apolitos
Originally by: Ella Nakada
/me sees a raven spamming out 18 T2 heavy missiles and whimpers
No T2's, just the "basic" class weapon. you can fit 3 x75mm or 3x125mm or 3x150mm rails and NOT 3x75mm scout/CC/carbide gun.
I hope this help a bit more.
So 18x T1 heavy missile launchers? Still not going to be good 
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. |
Asestorian
Minmatar
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.09 12:04:00 -
[5]
Yeah the reason its not done is because it would be insanely overpowered.
End of argument as far as I'm concerned. Though it is quite a cool idea.
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Apolitos
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Posted - 2006.12.09 12:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Asestorian
Yeah the reason its not done is because it would be insanely overpowered.
End of argument as far as I'm concerned. Though it is quite a cool idea.
i added this to the original post:
"EDIT: Also as i see below, each ship will have a max array/bat that can fit. You cant fit 24 rails/blasters on a megathorn or 18 standard missle launcher on a raven.
No matter how specialized will be they are still battleships/capital ships and must carry their size weapons too."
So dont dream a 20+ "guns" ship, the missle bats/turret arrays will have a max number.
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.09 12:16:00 -
[7]
I think the idea would work if you made them automatic defense mode only. Basically, you turn the array on and it attacks anything of its size rating within range. Basically, it makes the ship an escort class with anti small ship support but not controlled fire.
If you fit with small weapons, it fires on frigate size ships.
If you fit with medium weapons, it fires on cruiser size ships.
If you fit with defenders, it spams incoming missiles.
It would not be the best way to kill smaller targets since the pilot has no control over array but would mean giving up a pure offensive weapon system for a defensive on.
To keep too many of them being mounted on a ship, I would also suggest that the array have the average cpu/grid requirements of that races turret/missile weapon for the class of the ship. For a BS if using a missile slot, it would be the avg of the BS class missile turrets.
I also don't think that you should pick what weapons go into the array. All the player gets to pick is the ammo. Pretty much load it up and turn it on and hope.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Jennai
Ghosts of the Revolution
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.12.09 12:58:00 -
[8]
have we already forgotten the days when battleships (raven in particular) were uber pwnmobiles and there was no reason to fly anything else?
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StarStryder
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.09 14:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jennai
have we already forgotten the days when battleships (raven in particular) were uber pwnmobiles and there was no reason to fly anything else?
This isn't quite the same thing. Numbered example, although numbers are only approximations:
Raven with 6 t1 cruise = 6 x 500 per volley.
t1 cruise ROF = 22 hence dps = 136
Raven wtih 6 t1 light missile arrays = 18 x 100 per volley.
t1 light ROF = 15 hence dps = 120
So the overall damage output is less than the cruise, no overpowering there. The only factor is that a 12% damage reduction may not be enough of prevent everyone from equipping light launcher arrays all the time. No reason why you have to use the standard launcher ROF though. The array ROF could easily be tweaked to make using light arrays undesirable against BS and therefore force a choice.
When you think about it, this has been in game for a while in one form; the Assault Missile Launcher. It is basically a cruiser weapon that uses small ammo with an increased ROF over the standard launcher. It always used to be the Caldari short range medium launcher, but now that heavy assault launchers are in it no longer fits the pattern (not that it ever really did, but it's even more out of place now).
I see no problem with sacrificing BS sized damage to be able to deal with smaller targets. That said, I'm not so comfortable with them be auto-targetting. Target acquisition can be a tricky subject (how do you tell a target from someone you're remote repping f.ex.) which I think should be left in the pilot's hands. Defenders are a slightly different issue in that they don't target ships, just other ordinance and so these targetting issues don't exist.
Oh and before "some people" get the wrong idea, I'm not just a Caldari pilot wanting the Raven to be uber again. As the OP said, this can apply to launcher and turrets equally, and if balanced right does not have make BS into "uber pwnmobiles".
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.09 15:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ella Nakada
/me sees a raven spamming out 18 T2 heavy missiles and whimpers
I'd prefer the Drake that spits out about 2 dozen light missiles at a time.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Apolitos
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Posted - 2006.12.10 02:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: StarStryder
This isn't quite the same thing. Numbered example, although numbers are only approximations:
Raven with 6 t1 cruise = 6 x 500 per volley.
t1 cruise ROF = 22 hence dps = 136
Raven wtih 6 t1 light missile arrays = 18 x 100 per volley.
t1 light ROF = 15 hence dps = 120
So you say even with 18 launchers DPS is lower? So is not like "pawnmobiles" they mentioned above.
Can someone do some maths for amarr/gallente/min turrets pls?
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Iyanah
Minmatar
Mining Munitions and Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.12.10 02:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
I think the idea would work if you made them automatic defense mode only. Basically, you turn the array on and it attacks anything of its size rating within range. Basically, it makes the ship an escort class with anti small ship support but not controlled fire.
kinda like an FoF missile?
interesting.
but this whole idea screams overpowered, regardless. it sounds good, but when you think about the practicalities, it's just obscenely overpowered
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Iy |
ObiDoom Kenobi
Gallente
The Knighthawks
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.10 04:11:00 -
[13]
I just think it would be cool to be able to fit some kind of point defense system. The actual stats aren't anything I have an idea about, but it would be cool if you could fit your larger ships (battle ships and the like) with some point defense capabilities to combat smaller ships getting close. Nothing game breaking, just something to make frigates think twice before closing within point blank distance.
I've always mourned the decision not to include some kind of point defense weapon array.
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Burt Gummer
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Posted - 2006.12.10 05:14:00 -
[14]
A similar idea was suggested before, but just for Titans, where just 8 guns on such a huge ship didn't seem realistic and the recommendation was to add additional fitting slots for the sole purpose of having weapon arrays. I think this idea could be expanded to include dreads and motherships, but with some additional limitations. Extra guns for anything below a capital ship is just too much though, and not really needed because battleships and below are so much smaller than capital ships and only really need their primary weapons.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.12.10 05:30:00 -
[15]
I think Eve would be a lot cooler if bigger ships could fit FLAK type weapons to defend against small ships and smaller ships could carry bombs to destroy larger ships.
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Decrepus
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.10 07:28:00 -
[16]
Eve would be better if it was Homeworld?
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Mortuus
Minmatar
Just-fun
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.10 08:02:00 -
[17]
Nothing forcing you to not fit some small or med guns on a BS for defense. You already have those choices.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2006.12.10 11:15:00 -
[18]
I think it would be enough if you made all the "dual xyz" (usualy lowest tier of ac; should be made available for habrids and lasers too. missiles have their precission ones so they dont deserve this) simple what they are named. give them the stats (rof, traking) of the gun they are representing, as well as the ammo size. dobule their ammo consumption (thats what the consumption field is there, right?) and double their damage mod.
another way would just be to make damage bonus/rof bonus for turrets affect ALL turrets of that type. so a battleship can mount anti frig defense turrets without loosing its bonus.
with that move you could also introduce some oversized BS gun (like they tachyons but a bit bigger) which you can only mount 1-2 on a battleship without gimping its setup to hell. so you could have for example a tempest with 2 2800mm artilries and 4 point blank 425mm autocanons (tier3 cruiser AC).
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.10 11:44:00 -
[19]
The reason not to have this is simply because it really would overpower larger ships with the way turrets and damage work currently (and will probably have to work for a really long time).
There's nothing conceptually wrong with us having battleships like those you find in Freespace 2 or the like, it's just there's no way to implement it in a way which is remotely fair to smaller ships in an MMO.
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James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.10 12:10:00 -
[20]
The Battleship is not, and is not meant to be, a solo pwnmobile.
There's a reason we have battlecruisers and destoryers ingame. Killing smaller ships by virtue of their abundance of weapon slots is what they specialise at.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.10 18:33:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 10/12/2006 18:34:55
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Ella Nakada
/me sees a raven spamming out 18 T2 heavy missiles and whimpers
I'd prefer the Drake that spits out about 2 dozen light missiles at a time.
The new interceptor killer: Ferox with this alteration fitted with 75mm gatling rails......
Fast tracking, decent range and lots of little pieces of ammo going downrange.
<----------->
MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=426616
LowSec != NoSec
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Apolitos
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Posted - 2006.12.11 13:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
The new interceptor killer: Ferox with this alteration fitted with 75mm gatling rails......
Fast tracking, decent range and lots of little pieces of ammo going downrange.
It seems a bad idea, you thinking it wrong, so i guess is a bad idea.....
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
I think it would be enough if you made all the "dual xyz" (usualy lowest tier of ac; should be made available for habrids and lasers too. missiles have their precission ones so they dont deserve this) simple what they are named. give them the stats (rof, traking) of the gun they are representing, as well as the ammo size. dobule their ammo consumption (thats what the consumption field is there, right?) and double their damage mod.
This would actually make sense and it would be an interesting variation, as one of the medium and large turrets would be different.
________________________
- Posting on forums is more arduous than sign language is for a blind man - |
Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
I think it would be enough if you made all the "dual xyz" (usualy lowest tier of ac; should be made available for habrids and lasers too. missiles have their precission ones so they dont deserve this) simple what they are named. give them the stats (rof, traking) of the gun they are representing, as well as the ammo size. dobule their ammo consumption (thats what the consumption field is there, right?) and double their damage mod.
I was never really happy that a 75mm railgun used teh same ammo that a 150mm railgun used, but a 150mm railgun and a dual 150mm railgun used different charges. Weird.
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