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Aaron Rex Caldari The Fated	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:19:00 - [1] We apparantly have three titans ingame now, all of them the Amarrian Avatar ones. Now, I have a sneeky suspision that alliances don't go and invest multi tens of billions of ISK on a ship without having a very good reason for picking that particular ship over another. So, I was wondering, what is it that makes the Avatar the best titan (or at least the titan of choice)? Does it have better stats than the others? Better bonuses? Does it simply look better? Or are Amarr simply wtf pwningly ubr? Aaron Rex - Remember the Scordite... The Fated
Ravelin Eb Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:20:00 - [2] em doomsday
Marcathonas The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:25:00 - [3] Cap recharge. 37.5%, IIRC.
Kye Kenshin Black Takeda	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:27:00 - [4] Maybe its because alot of the titan pilots trained up Amarr when they were uber and then the amarr dreads for the no ammo and tanking abilities. So skillwise the avatar was the best choice. Could be the reason.
Dixon Caldari Hells Donkeys	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:29:00 - [5] It's golden... - - - - - - Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
Aaron Rex Caldari The Fated	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:32:00 - [6] I had thought about the skill side, but dismissed it as the way I see it, considering the cost of the ship, you'd train up for the best one, not chose a crap one just cos you could knock a month or whatever off the training time for it. But I might be wrong. As for the EM doomsday, I would have thought that bad. Isn't EM the most tanked damage? But the cap recharge bonus I can understand. Aaron Rex - Remember the Scordite... The Fated
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:34:00 - [7] I must say I like the Minmatar bonus as well. ( -7.5% sigres/ lvl)
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.09 21:59:00 - [8] EM damage is only a problem in the context of lasers. When applied to things like Missles, Projectiles (both which can pick EM damage in specific situations), or Judgement (Cos it does so much damage) EM is just as effective as other damage types. ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1
Polydectes Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:30:00 - [9] The avatar cap bonus allows all ships in gang to remove a cap power relay and fit another damage mod or other mod. -------------------------------------------------
Teh Bunny Caldari Minor Mining Corp	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:31:00 - [10] Rumor has it that D2 is building a Gallente titan.
Wiggy69 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:32:00 - [11] Edited by: Wiggy69 on 09/12/2006 22:32:04 Personally, I'd pick the Avatar over the others due to it's ability to fit, and permanently run, 3 capital armor repairers. Any sane pilot will have a Slave set + 8% armor implant and maxed tanking skills, making a mean tank (maybe around 800.000HP? Wouldn't want to work it out ) for anyone to come up against. Oh, and the 37.5% capacitor recharge rate bonus to everyone in your fleet. ----- Wiggy's Bad Spelling and Grammar Complaints Department
Amarr knight LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.09 22:34:00 - [12] Could just be that the pilots who decided to train for titan were Amarr specialised and when the time came Amarr titan seemed like the right choice. Another race of titan would have taken longer to train, as they already take too long even with high attributes and +5 implants.
Beringe Caldari Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.12.09 23:07:00 - [13] It's because of skills. Personally, I think a fleet with the Erebus/Leviathan is going to be sick, especially considering that DD weapons are being fired off left and right. The minmatar titan will give a BS the sig radius of a cruiser. ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.09 23:20:00 - [14] if i saw correct there has been one Erebus BPO sold :) so might see that one some time :)
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.12.10 00:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Riho if i saw correct there has been one Erebus BPO sold :) so might see that one some time :) I demand someone buy the Ragnarok bpo and build it.... Coincidentally i honestly wished there was a 1v1 w all titans just to see how it would fare. Technically their just logistical powerhouses but it would be very interesting to see a pvp vid of just titans going at it.
Trinity Faetal Gallente Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.10 01:12:00 - [16] in the begining apocalypses with their 8 turrets where the best miners in game, so everyone trained for them and becuz every lvl added 5% cap ppl trained it to lvl 5 bs so they could mine and run 2 large reps. basicly one thing lead to another and now they fly titans i still think gallente titan would own them -- join channel Dope Dealerz if you wanna sell or can supply drugs on a regular basis.
Gor Kraon Minmatar Shadowclan	Posted - 2006.12.10 01:27:00 - [17] Judgment can be tanked by a Wolf... (but i suppose the right Tech 2 ship can tank each of the Titans.) The cap recharge is nice though.
Imechal Ravpeim Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.10 01:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Rehmes Originally by: Riho if i saw correct there has been one Erebus BPO sold :) so might see that one some time :) I demand someone buy the Ragnarok bpo and build it.... Coincidentally i honestly wished there was a 1v1 w all titans just to see how it would fare. Technically their just logistical powerhouses but it would be very interesting to see a pvp vid of just titans going at it. I saw a vid of that... A bunch of titans in the test server just killing eachother. No Ragnaroks though... just the other three. Then they all got pwned by Concord.
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 01:40:00 - [19] Whats not to love about a gold-plated buttplug?
Galactic Magi	Posted - 2006.12.10 02:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Imechal Ravpeim Originally by: Rehmes Originally by: Riho if i saw correct there has been one Erebus BPO sold :) so might see that one some time :) I demand someone buy the Ragnarok bpo and build it.... Coincidentally i honestly wished there was a 1v1 w all titans just to see how it would fare. Technically their just logistical powerhouses but it would be very interesting to see a pvp vid of just titans going at it. I saw a vid of that... A bunch of titans in the test server just killing eachother. No Ragnaroks though... just the other three. Then they all got pwned by Concord. Titan 1 vs 1 wont really be fun considering they dont have the dmg to break each others tank. And i think a dread in siege mode easily out damage them.
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.12.10 04:01:00 - [21] My theory is that all these pilots are leftovers from the era of the gankaddon with 7x beam lasers and 8x heat sinks without stacking penalty. ------------- Cadet Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.10 05:22:00 - [22] Edited by: Baun on 10/12/2006 05:22:29 Shrike is an Amarr pilot (im sure he must have some other skills) and the ship was built for him to fly. The same is probably true of enslaver and Cyvok. I think the Ragnarock and Erebus provide better bonuses for fleet combat. I would go with the Ragnarock personally since I think explosive if the best damage (most ships armor tank) and it has a sick gang bonus. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Derrios Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.10 06:00:00 - [23] agree with the two posts above me :) ----------------------------------------------- <3 conspiracy theories. Originally by: Omeega We (aAa) could do this - did this? /me hands the DBP paycheck with the small note - Please bbq AXE
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.10 06:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Marcathonas Cap recharge. 37.5%, IIRC. /\ \| \| That's my guess. Picking it for the damage type doesn't sound right though. Considering most ships armor tank in fleets, and Minmatar assault ships have stupid-insane EM resists, you'd probably want explosive or kinetic instead. However the avatar can have a simply insane tank now. Several million HP, hardened, and probably a cap armor rep as well? You aren't getting that sort of god-mode on a shield tanked Titan. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.10 06:39:00 - [25] for those who don't follow thsoap oper cough cor and alliance channel, who was the titans?
Siakel	Posted - 2006.12.10 06:41:00 - [26] Edited by: Siakel on 10/12/2006 06:41:53 Originally by: Audri Fisher for those who don't follow thsoap oper cough cor and alliance channel, who was the titans? Ah, as far as I know BoB has one(Avatar?) ASCN has an Avatar, and now Lotka Volterra has an Avatar, too.
DrLogan New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.10 06:52:00 - [27] It is all because of the ships bonus..Skills are no problem for a huge alliance..and the avatar has the only universal (good, sig radius is meh) bonus (cap regen bonus).
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.10 06:54:00 - [28] Originally by: DrLogan It is all because of the ships bonus..Skills are no problem for a huge alliance..and the avatar has the only universal (good, sig radius is meh) bonus (cap regen bonus). Cap bonus is quite useless in most circumstances. As pointed out elsewhere the only place it is uber is for dreads and then it is REALLY uber. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Felix Dzerzhinsky	Posted - 2006.12.10 07:21:00 - [29] People underestimate cap recharge, and those people either don't use cap or have not been in many fleet battles. Cap bonus alows your fleet to drop cap recharging mods, which allow for more damage, sensor, EW and utility mods. And those amarr laser boats can fire just that much longer. . .
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.10 07:30:00 - [30] Originally by: Trinity Faetal in the begining apocalypses with their 8 turrets where the best miners in game, so everyone trained for them and becuz every lvl added 5% cap ppl trained it to lvl 5 bs so they could mine and run 2 large reps. basicly one thing lead to another and now they fly titans i still think gallente titan would own them In the beginning Apocs had Damage Bonus. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.10 07:39:00 - [31] Originally by: Wiggy69 Edited by: Wiggy69 on 09/12/2006 22:32:04 Personally, I'd pick the Avatar over the others due to it's ability to fit, and permanently run, 3 capital armor repairers. Any sane pilot will have a Slave set + 8% armor implant and maxed tanking skills, making a mean tank (maybe around 800.000HP? Wouldn't want to work it out ) for anyone to come up against. Oh, and the 37.5% capacitor recharge rate bonus to everyone in your fleet. Erebus can exceed 1 million armor hp. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 08:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Baun Originally by: DrLogan It is all because of the ships bonus..Skills are no problem for a huge alliance..and the avatar has the only universal (good, sig radius is meh) bonus (cap regen bonus). Cap bonus is quite useless in most circumstances. As pointed out elsewhere the only place it is uber is for dreads and then it is REALLY uber. Don't forget other capital ships, for example Archon can run a quad capital repairer tank in a properly structured gang if there's a titan involved. Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Wiggy69 Edited by: Wiggy69 on 09/12/2006 22:32:04 Personally, I'd pick the Avatar over the others due to it's ability to fit, and permanently run, 3 capital armor repairers. Any sane pilot will have a Slave set + 8% armor implant and maxed tanking skills, making a mean tank (maybe around 800.000HP? Wouldn't want to work it out ) for anyone to come up against. Oh, and the 37.5% capacitor recharge rate bonus to everyone in your fleet. Erebus can exceed 1 million armor hp. Avatar can go up to 1.6 million HP with decent omniresists giving it around 5 million "real" HP. You are #27 in queue to see this signature.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.10 08:45:00 - [33] I disagree on the sig res bonus being lousy, -37.5% sig res and tracking starts to become iffey @ fleet ranges with long range crystals and any kind of transversal.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.10 10:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Max Hardcase I disagree on the sig res bonus being lousy, -37.5% sig res and tracking starts to become iffey @ fleet ranges with long range crystals and any kind of transversal. The sig radius bonus is the best of them imo. The Ragnarok's sig alone drops to less than 700 with Titan 5 and Halo Set. I bet it can go even further down. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Kharakan Amarr New World Disorders	Posted - 2006.12.10 10:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Marcathonas Cap recharge. 37.5%, IIRC. /\ \| \| That's my guess. Picking it for the damage type doesn't sound right though. Considering most ships armor tank in fleets, and Minmatar assault ships have stupid-insane EM resists, you'd probably want explosive or kinetic instead. However the avatar can have a simply insane tank now. Several million HP, hardened, and probably a cap armor rep as well? You aren't getting that sort of god-mode on a shield tanked Titan. While Minnie AF's/HAC's may have stupid resists, it's quite possibly not enough to stop them from dying from the sheer damage of the DD. Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Alerean	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:06:00 - [36] The real reason everyone picks Avatars, is because they're all nostalgic ex-homeworld players, Im afraid this is the best picture I could find at short notice: <a href="http://home.wtal.de/host/shota003.jpg">Look on the right-hand side, familiar?</a> Mothership for the Great Nebula missions, god I loved that game...
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Alerean Mothership for the Great Nebula missions, god I loved that game... Ah yeah, it was awesome ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Sedai Hara	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:45:00 - [38] A developer on EveTV talked about that they tried fitting a Avatar for insane HP. They used best Armor HP rigs, Armor implants (dont remember name) and maxed out skills. Well they ended up with about 1.8mil HP on the avatar. Just to kill that WITHOUT repairs and resistance will take a few days with dreadz, in that time i bet you will easely even BUILD a counter fleet. Still, i think they choose what titan (like talking about a BS now) With teh thought of skills 1#, as well.. Cap ship V, dread V etc etc etc TAKES TIME. So i just bet they choose one for the majority of players in theallaince who may be able to pilot it...
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.10 12:07:00 - [39] Originally by: Baun Originally by: DrLogan It is all because of the ships bonus..Skills are no problem for a huge alliance..and the avatar has the only universal (good, sig radius is meh) bonus (cap regen bonus). Cap bonus is quite useless in most circumstances. As pointed out elsewhere the only place it is uber is for dreads and then it is REALLY uber. I disagree, in a fleet battle, this will give Mega, Apoc, Arma pilots the chance to stay in the fight that much longer, as long as the battle lasts more than a couple of minutes. Most of these pilots will run dry firing a rack of guns after 2 or 3 minutes. Sig res or extra armour is probably better though, but cap bonus is far from useless ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1
Fuglife Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.12.10 12:16:00 - [40] The avatar is the cap fix for the abbaddon! ---
Pinoy Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.10 12:23:00 - [41] In fleet battle, Amaar titan offers something unique. In addition to the 37.5% cap fleet bonus that is very rarely used, amaar EM damage is the easiest to tank by armor tanked BS. This is a bad thing, but it also can be a good thing. Any BS that fits 2 1600mm plates, 1 EM hardener + EANM can tank the 67k EM damage titan puts out. This wouldn't be true if that damage would be kinetic or explosive. You'd need much bigger tank than the mere 4 slots. So you can outfit your BS fleet to stay put when your titan fires, and still be there at the end. While enemy might not nessesarly be prepared for this. Reason why you might now want titan in the general gang of 200+ pilots is that there may be some idiot that'll warp to ya... uncloaking you.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Pinoy In fleet battle, Amaar titan offers something unique. In addition to the 37.5% cap fleet bonus that is very rarely used, amaar EM damage is the easiest to tank by armor tanked BS. This is a bad thing, but it also can be a good thing. Any BS that fits 2 1600mm plates, 1 EM hardener + EANM can tank the 67k EM damage titan puts out. This wouldn't be true if that damage would be kinetic or explosive. You'd need much bigger tank than the mere 4 slots. So you can outfit your BS fleet to stay put when your titan fires, and still be there at the end. While enemy might not nessesarly be prepared for this. Reason why you might now want titan in the general gang of 200+ pilots is that there may be some idiot that'll warp to ya... uncloaking you. i missed the part where that's a good thing
Kella DelRae Ammu-Nation	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Siakel Edited by: Siakel on 10/12/2006 06:41:53 Originally by: Audri Fisher for those who don't follow thsoap oper cough cor and alliance channel, who was the titans? Ah, as far as I know BoB has one(Avatar?) ASCN has an Avatar, and now Lotka Volterra has an Avatar, too. Damn I'm glad we left Catch...
David Koresch Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.10 19:17:00 - [44] Give the Ragnarok a +5% gang target painter effectiveness per level tbfh --------------------------------- Carebearin' in a hi-sec near you!
Gor Kraon Minmatar Shadowclan	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:50:00 - [45] Originally by: Kharakan While Minnie AF's/HAC's may have stupid resists, it's quite possibly not enough to stop them from dying from the sheer damage of the DD. Without some mods, yeah, they can't. But with a little help they can do crazy stuff. EM hardener and 400 RT on a wolf gives 96.34% EM and 2271 armor. That means it can soak 62,049 EM damage in armor alone. Change it to tech 2, add plates or armor rigs and it just goes up fast... No doubt a HAC with its much larger plate capacity can do alot more.
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:38:00 - [46] If the entire enemy fleet has to fit 1 or 2 EM hardeners just to survive the doomsday, you already won the fight. You just gave your fleet 30 whatever more cap (saving a cap mod, gaining your entire fleet 1 more slot) and cost the entire enemy fleet 1 or 2 slots in normally useless hardeners. That's a pretty significant swing of power.
Gor Kraon Minmatar Shadowclan	Posted - 2006.12.10 22:15:00 - [47] Yeah, hardening against an enemy titan isn't practical. But hardening your own strike force that can attack the enemy and survive the blast could be really good though.
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2006.12.10 22:31:00 - [48] I think it wasnt for the battle-value but for the time it saves when moving it (and other capital ships). whoever tried to move a capship several jumps (cap-jumps!) know what it means to wait for the recharge of the capships capacitor. for a doomsday alone caldari and galente are maybe the best but ragnarok with maxed skills and the right warfare link (or a mini command ship with extra bonus on that link) and you drop your fleets signature by 50%.
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.10 22:39:00 - [49] Originally by: Sedai Hara A developer on EveTV talked about that they tried fitting a Avatar for insane HP. They used best Armor HP rigs, Armor implants (dont remember name) and maxed out skills. Well they ended up with about 1.8mil HP on the avatar. Just to kill that WITHOUT repairs and resistance will take a few days with dreadz, in that time i bet you will easely even BUILD a counter fleet. Still, i think they choose what titan (like talking about a BS now) With teh thought of skills 1#, as well.. Cap ship V, dread V etc etc etc TAKES TIME. So i just bet they choose one for the majority of players in theallaince who may be able to pilot it... Totally wrong, a bunch of dreads would chew through unresisted 1.8mil hp in a matter of minutes. Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2006.12.10 23:29:00 - [50] not that i know anything about it, but my bet is, its the slot layout and the amarrstyle of armor resistances. this allows for a real nasty tank, which is necessary to keep up the cap recharge bonus for the fleet as long as possible.
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.10 23:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho not that i know anything about it, but my bet is, its the slot layout and the amarrstyle of armor resistances. this allows for a real nasty tank, which is necessary to keep up the cap recharge bonus for the fleet as long as possible. Well, Titans are abit like carriers, they work just as well sitting at a POS so I think its more about the gang bonus and that cap bonus has got to be uber in dread fleets. Oh and I just <3 your sig Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.11 00:25:00 - [52] Edited by: Akita T on 11/12/2006 00:27:48 Avatar armortank (all relevant skills assumed maxed out, titan L5 too) Base Capacitor: 140,625 recharge in 3164 sec ; peak recharge 111.11 cap/second Base armor HP: 437,500 (over 650k with slave set) Base armor resists: 60/20/25/35 3 rig slots BUT NO CLUE as to wether it can or can not fit rigs at all (god help you all if they can) 8 lowslots, 5 midslots I'm going to go out on a limb here and just ASSUME there's nothing better to fit in the mids other than cap rechargers, for the obvious reasons (hello, almost 53 minutes full cap recharge, bad). And seing how much these babies cost, we can safely assume you're only going to get the best possible... so... Draclira's/Chelm's for -36% cap recharge time, and screw the costs. Or, is it really needed ? New cap recharge time : 3164 * 0.64^5 = 339.7 seconds (under 6 minutes for full recharge, about 5 for jump) New peak cap recharge: 1034.8 cap per second Capital Armor Repairer I uses 2400 energy every 28.5 sec at L1, every 22.5 sec at L5 So, at most 106.6 cap/second... you could run 8 of them 24/7 with the setup you have 'till now, and only use 853.3 cap/second and still have 181.4 per second excess at peak recharge... let's just say, cap ain't a problem anymore. At all. Theoretically, you could repair 3413 armor/second this way, but it would be silly... running only 4 of them plus 4 best hardners is better in all conceivable ways. Hmmz, apparently, you can easily run 4x cap repairers and only need to use Cap Recharger IIs in mids for that. So if you fit the expensive officer ones... WHAT WOULD YOU FIT IN MIDS OTHER THAN RECHARGERS, IF CAP WOULD BE NO PROBLEM ? Quite frankly, I have no clue what would be useful instead. So, all 8 lows can easily be dedicated for tank. Personally, I'd say 2 of each best (64% resists) except EM, a SINGLE active EM plus ONLY ONE single capital repairer (426.6 armor/second repaired at L5 capital armor repair skill). END RESULT: 650k HP, 85.60/87.22/88.02/89.62 resists 5.24 mil average damage resisted: 4.5/5.0/5.4/6.2 mil vs each resist DPS completely absorbed: 3445 average 2963/3338/3561/4109 vs the four resists PERMA-tank, cap holds steady at around 75% or even higher, stop the tank and jump in less than 2 minutes. ___ P.S. I don't even want to think what "could be" if you can fit armor rigs on this behemoth... or even worse, cap recharge rigs. _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:45:00 - [53] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 11/12/2006 00:27:48 WHAT WOULD YOU FIT IN MIDS OTHER THAN RECHARGERS, IF CAP WOULD BE NO PROBLEM ? Quite frankly, I have no clue what would be useful instead. ok, i have an idea. that prolly makes 70% of th eve population scream "DONT MIX ARMOR AND SHIELD TANKS".... BUT!.... the only reason why you dont mix tanks, is because you want to get one type to its optimum. so if you reached that goal, with only half the slots, you could use the remaining slots for the other type. in this case, some shield hardeners/rechargers. why? because a titan has a whole ****load of hp, so it prolly makes a difference? on the other hand... if you really bring it to battle or have it uncloaked at its SS, why not fit some more cap equipment, and reserve one or two highslots for remote repairers, to keep your escort happy? all just thoughts. i have no fleet experience, and my biggest ship is a dominix ;)
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:29:00 - [54] to whomever said it takes a dread days to get through 1.8mil armor: the average dread can kill off about 7mil unhardennerd armor hp
Borasao	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:39:00 - [55] Originally by: Deathbarrage to whomever said it takes a dread days to get through 1.8mil armor: the average dread can kill off about 7mil unhardennerd armor hp My tech1 Merlin can kill off 1b amount of unhardened armor hp given enough time. It's rate that matters but you didn't mention any timeframe. How long would it take your average dread to kill off 7mil unhardennerd armor hp? or did you mean in one day?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.11 16:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Borasao Originally by: Deathbarrage to whomever said it takes a dread days to get through 1.8mil armor: the average dread can kill off about 7mil unhardennerd armor hp My tech1 Merlin can kill off 1b amount of unhardened armor hp given enough time. It's rate that matters but you didn't mention any timeframe. How long would it take your average dread to kill off 7mil unhardennerd armor hp? or did you mean in one day? sorry my bad, takes a dread 1hour average to kill off 7bill of unhardenerd armor
Liam Fremen Gallente Global Isk Network	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:47:00 - [57] I made an extensive testing about Carriers tanking, the best result (tested with lot of ppl of my corp and friends on test server just with "affordable" equip) was to use the med slot you needed for the armortank, the remain was used for Invul field t2 or better. This is why if you tank on armor you just "waste" your med slot for a long time beafore your enemy reach the armor, the more time they spend for reach the armor the more cap you will have at the begin of the tanking and less cap they will have. This is just a tactical reason :) then in low slot if you make some count on capital armor repairs is not always "good" to place extreme resistance, the hp are a tons and you can sustain a lot of repper (3 capital armor repair for 15 minutes in my nidhoggur, that with resist makes 1870 true dps already counting resistance) Avatar can sustain at least 5 of them while using 1 internal force field (who the hell would be so DUMB to not use a damage control that give you near 70% hull resist??? on so much hull???) so 1 low slot is gone for sure 100%. Then you have 7 low, i think that 2 eanm will be good, just for overall tanking obviously true sansha or super powwa named one, and then, you have 5 slot, you can fit 5 capital repper, and you get a shiny 2000 "raw" dps repaired each second, then you must add your resistance that with 2 eanm and damage control counting t2 stuff is average of 64% so 3280 tankable dps that you regen each second. As you can see is nothing of amazing, the problem is always the same of all the capital ship, the fleet around it don't wait until the flagship explode :) they fight :) and if the fire is concentrated on the "flagship" all the whole fleet have the chance to keep the maximum damage output while reducing the enemy one by killing them. I tryed this by deploying my Nidhoggur in battle, well, everyone just locked and shoted me, (about 9 ppl mixed between bs/bc and frigs) well i was under dampener, under heavy fire, what you want, but my 4 man gang was able to shot down 4 of them and the other moved away while my fighter were in the bay waiting for a more tought moment :) Capital ships attract fire, the fleet concentrate on them, and they must survive the time needed for the fleet to destroy the attacker :) This is realy true on carriers beacause you CAN'T ignore the damage of 10-12 fighters on your bs/bc, you will die if you don't warp or kill the fighters
Colonel Drego Caldari Angels of the Apocolypse	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:23:00 - [58] Edited by: Colonel Drego on 11/12/2006 18:24:21 I saw a BoB Ragnarok on the test server not too long ago. As far as I know it wasn't spawned for them either, as it got to the FFA via cryosonal field.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:32:00 - [59] Because amarr in capital ships have alot of armor tank+alot of cap+its one of the cheaper ones to build and yes because its gold and its doomsday is blue __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr.
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:30:00 - [60] Originally by: Colonel Drego Edited by: Colonel Drego on 11/12/2006 18:24:21 I saw a BoB Ragnarok on the test server not too long ago. As far as I know it wasn't spawned for them either, as it got to the FFA via cryosonal field. You didn't know BoB has two? ...well you do now. Their Ragnarok isn't in use most prolly since the pilot is still training skills and messing with the fit on SiSi. You are #27 in queue to see this signature.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:31:00 - [61] Originally by: Jacob Majestic It doesn't make any sense to fit a capital armor rep on an Avatar. Think about it -- if an Avatar gets down into armor, the proverbial ** has already hit the fan, so there is exactly one course of action: run. Consider the "real" base stats of an Avatar: Armor: 850246 (skills, gang bonuses, implants) Cap Recharge: 724.7757s (five 36% cap rechargers) The midslots are fixed, and so are seven of the low slots: two 64% EX, TH, KIN hardeners, and one 64% EM hardener. You have the following options for that last low slot: - 15% armor hp (Energized Regenerative Membrane II) - 38.61% omni hardener (best officer eanm) - 32.5% cap recharge (officer cpr) - capital armor rep (lol) Consider the CAR. If you're flushed out of the pocket (so to speak) and taking damage, you will have to run the CAR for 13 cycles (almost seven minutes!) to rep back the HP that a 15% armor hp module would have just given you. Fitting the omni hardener would give you resists of 90.16/89.91/90.53/91.8, which reduces incoming omni damage by 23.65%. Converting back to armor hp, this is equivalent to 1,113,616 hp, and the difference between the hardener and a CAR is now 27 cycles, or 823 seconds of tanking. If your friends can't muster a fleet to save you in 13 minutes, you need to buy better friends. Of course, considering that your tank is unbreakable if you're in a friendly POS, just fit a 32.5% cap relay and prepare to run. That increases your base cap recharge to 613.3 cap/s. If your friends can't kill off nossing and neuting battleships fast enough to jump you out of the system with that kind of recharge rate, again, you need to buy better friends. This is also why I bet every Avatar has at least 6 42km heavy nos in the high slots -- in a titan, you run when you're attacked, so your cap is your life, not your tank. may be personal but if i had an avatar I'd also want to have some fun and not just run but be the cool kid with the titan and tank like a mother****
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:59:00 - [62] Edited by: Goumindong on 11/12/2006 20:01:35 Originally by: Jacob Majestic It doesn't make any sense to fit a capital armor rep on an Avatar. Think about it -- if an Avatar gets down into armor, the proverbial **** has already hit the fan, so there is exactly one course of action: run. Consider the "real" base stats of an Avatar: Armor: 850246 (skills, gang bonuses, implants) Cap Recharge: 724.7757s (five 36% cap rechargers) The midslots are fixed, and so are seven of the low slots: two 64% EX, TH, KIN hardeners, and one 64% EM hardener. You have the following options for that last low slot: - 15% armor hp (Energized Regenerative Membrane II) - 38.61% omni hardener (best officer eanm) - 32.5% cap recharge (officer cpr) - capital armor rep (lol) Consider the CAR. If you're flushed out of the pocket (so to speak) and taking damage, you will have to run the CAR for 13 cycles (almost seven minutes!) to rep back the HP that a 15% armor hp module would have just given you. Fitting the omni hardener would give you resists of 90.16/89.91/90.53/91.8, which reduces incoming omni damage by 23.65%. Converting back to armor hp, this is equivalent to 1,113,616 hp, and the difference between the hardener and a CAR is now 27 cycles, or 823 seconds of tanking. If your friends can't muster a fleet to save you in 13 minutes, you need to buy better friends. Of course, considering that your tank is unbreakable if you're in a friendly POS, just fit a 32.5% cap relay and prepare to run. That increases your base cap recharge to 613.3 cap/s. If your friends can't kill off nossing and neuting battleships fast enough to jump you out of the system with that kind of recharge rate, again, you need to buy better friends. It looks like CYVOCK needs to buy better friends :) Which is to say, it defintily can be done. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Kzool	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:29:00 - [63] Edited by: Kzool on 11/12/2006 20:29:21 Btw, dont forget titan can fit 3 gang modules on top to improve armor tanking. You can always have a gang with an alt or somth and with that tanking become even more insane Well, not considering a case, when you log or diconnect with agro timer ^^

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