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Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.12.10 13:43:00 - [31] Unbelievable. You get an excellent turret platform served on a silver plate while already having the best missile BS and the best (only) EW BS and still you whine? Hilarious to say the least.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.10 16:11:00 - [32] Solo, it's an Ok ship. Amazing tank, decent damage, longest range. Great blobbing ship, get a buncha Rokh at 210 KM and pound on your opponent before they get a chance to fight back. Funny thing about Caldari ships is the single best way to kill a Rokh, is also the single best way to get killed by a Raven. Get close.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:14:00 - [33] I'm guessing the op is having a nice little laugh at the expense of everyone who think he is serious. The ability to hit from farther out than any other ship and outside any EW range is atm the best advantage you can get. If fleet is inside "normal"(not rokh) long range 150-200km, it is still inside effective EW range and can be EW to lose a lot of effectiveness. Rokh is the fleet ship of revalations. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Zhon Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:15:00 - [34] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 10/12/2006 11:51:19 This beats hands down your older attempts to demonstrate that precision cruises and javelin torpedoes were not overpowered before their (shy) nerf. Keep them coming. NB. Actually I agreed that Javelins were over powered. Precision Cruise were not over powered, but the HAC pilots complained enought and now they arnt worth the cargo space they take up. Anyways ... I didnt start this thread to get ships nerfed or boosted I wanted to see what other peoples reaction to the ship was and possible find out why everyone say it is as good as you say. So far I havnt seen any post to prove that. I think the best post I heard was. Originally by: Vasiliyan The Rokh allows people to snipe effectively without having trained for T2 large guns. Yeah.. what if we have tech 2 guns.... Kinda of short sighted to have a ship built to tailor the first 3 months of a ships introduction into the game. All that matters for a fleet ship is damage. There is no point of the Rock being able to shoot at 270km when it engages at 200km 90% of the time with the rest of the fleet. As already said the other ships outdamage it or out tank it or both. I don't care about setting up bubbles 250km away from a gate. As far as using it T1 the amount of damage you get from Iron at 250km could be tanked by a rookie bs pilots indefinatly and surly long enough to walk out of the bubble and warp away. Yes the Abandon will cap out in 2-3 min of non fleet combat, but it will kill a Rokh in under a minute. Maelstrom can take the damage from the rokh easy enough and do more damage in return. The battle from this would eventually give favor to the Maelstom. My argument I guesss is more of a 1v1 comparison of the ships. The Rokh simple does less damage than the other ships. So 1v1 it would lose. At the end fo the Day it does more good than a raven in fleet combat when instant damage is needed, but it is still substandard to the other gunboats. ---------
Zhon Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:16:00 - [35] I would like to add, that if you could possibly have a fleet of Rokh's then I could see an advatage, but seeing how you will mostly likly always have a mixed fleet the range bonus is rather redundant. ---------
Aro Tolan	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:23:00 - [36] The range bonus on the ship counters the range penalty on higher damage ammo - letting you use the higher damage ammo at farther ranges. I'd sure consider that a good thing.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:24:00 - [37] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 10/12/2006 18:31:12 Originally by: Zhon Actually I agreed that Javelins were over powered. Precision Cruise were not over powered, but the HAC pilots complained enought and now they arnt worth the cargo space they take up. I rest my case, and they are still due for a change. Originally by: Zhon All that matters for a fleet ship is damage. There is no point of the Rock being able to shoot at 270km when it engages at 200km 90% of the time with the rest of the fleet. What you fail to understand is that this is not static, it's dynamic. Forever the fighting range has been a function of the maximum range fleet BS can achieve, because the space covered is a ^3 function of the range (giving you a high marginal return on any additional range) and it lowers the complexity as the support/ECM is less a threat. The introduction of the rokh is pushing this line and conversely the rokh is not limited by the former fighting range. Just give it a few more weeks and half the BS on any killmail in a fleet battle will be rokhs. Originally by: Zhon Maelstrom can take the damage from the rokh easy enough and do more damage in return. The battle from this would eventually give favor to the Maelstom. I'm sick of "maelstrom is good" talk, the maelstrom is the most useless design ever introduced in eve. A shield boost bonus and rof bonus on a super heavy minmatar ship ? Yes please, I'd also want a small remote hull repairer cycle time bonus and it'll be perfect Originally by: Zhon My argument I guesss is more of a 1v1 comparison of the ships. The Rokh simple does less damage than the other ships. So 1v1 it would lose. Fantastic idea comparing fleet BS in 1 vs 1 situations Originally by: Zhon At the end fo the Day it does more good than a raven in fleet combat when instant damage is needed, but it is still substandard to the other gunboats. Then why is my fully specced minmatar char training for the rokh and large t2 railguns as we speak ? Because I'm a complete idiot who doesn't grasp anything ? Or because it's an obvious balance ** up ? NB. In Rust We Trust**
Byzan Zwyth Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:46:00 - [38] IMO caldari were the only race to get exactly what they needed with the new battleships. Rail boat & mining BS. Gallente IMO could have used a BS with a CAP/MWD bonus like the thorax. Amarr needed a drone BS to go with the arby hull ships but they got the last thing they needed. ---------------------- I fly Amarr and Gallente ships Amarr because they peow peow - and look cool... Gallente because they are effective
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Zhon Pretty straight forward. The ship look pretty cool, but compared to the otehr fleet gunboats its a few cards short of a deck. I think it's you whos a few cards short of a deck. Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:51:00 - [40] Originally by: Zhon How many battle in general are fought at 240 250 km. 90% of all battles are 150km 220km. And at bs lvl 4 with spike you have well well well beyond 170+, but then again it is pointless when fleet battle put you at 200km. if you warp all your rokh's outside the other blobs range they can sit and shoot their hearts out and not get shot at to start with. and we havent even gone into the 4/4 nos/launcher setup or the blaster setup. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.11 05:29:00 - [41] Let me try to explain why sniping fleets will soon be soley comprised of Rokhs. TBH I am still not convinced that this entire post is not a troll, but am giving the benefit of the doubt. Originally by: Zhon All that matters for a fleet ship is damage.......The Rokh simple does less damage than the other ships. So 1v1 it would lose. Look at the new T2 longrange ammo, post Revelations nerf. Most max optimals will be ~175km +falloff. At 200km, BS damage will be around 100dps for all non-Rokh snipers tapering down to 50dps at 225km. This is with T2 guns and ammo. A T1 Rokh does the same damage at 200km and almost twice that of the T2 non-Rokh at 220km+. A T2 Rokh with Spike does 200dps all the way to 250km. Rokh's do more damage, at greater range than any other BS. Therefore, a Rokh fleet can kill more ships faster than any other type of BS fleet. In addition, they can fire at ranges greater than other sniping BS. This creates a situation where Rokhs can fire on targets that are unable to fire back. Eve's historical gameplay shows conclusively that if there is a situation able to be created in which a Group A can attack Group B without Group B being able to fire back it will not only be used, but abused to it's fullest extent. Any group that does not utilize such a method will be at a tactical disadvantage with equivalent incurred losses. We have seen this happen with the original introduction of T2 ammo. As soon as it became possible to snipe @ 200km+ beyond the range of T1 guns and ECM it was immediately utilized to great tactical advantage. ECM was another example. The ability to attack a target and deny it the possibility to shoot back is one of the greatest tactical advantages in any battle. Why CCP decided to nerf all ranges on T2 ammo (good) and then add a new BS that had more range than the original ships makes no sense(bad). Originally by: NB I'm sick of "maelstrom is good" talk, the maelstrom is the most useless design ever introduced in eve. A shield boost bonus and rof bonus on a super heavy minmatar ship ? The Maelstrom is an Amarrian Concept ship. Thats why Matari hate it. Think about it. Super good zomg tank with pretty good damage from ACs. No ecm, no tackling, no propulsion. Just tank and gank. That's Amarr fighting style at it's core. Originally by: NB Then why is my fully specced minmatar char training for the rokh and large t2 railguns as we speak ? Because unless something is changed FAST it will be the only way to compete in fleet warfare post-Revelations. You can bet all the smart alliances are already building thier Rokh fleets. Nyxus Originally by: Sarmaul Probing times are (still) too long. It needed to be made easier to probe people, not like playing hide and seek in a 6x6 room with no furniture.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.11 05:50:00 - [42] (T1 named) 425mm prototype, 57km optimal, 153km with Iron L/Sharp4/BS4 WITHOUT any mods... plus at least 24km falloff. With 2x Optical tracking comps, optimal becomes 189km. Now, that's a not-so-many-SP needed setup (for a sniping BS, you don't really care much about anything else), heck, even a 1-month-old player might be (barely) able to fit it if he headed right to it from the start (caldari soldier for instance). Yes, fleet of sniping newb-alts shooting at almost 200km optimal plus god knows how much falloff. Yup, definetely worthless ship, yup. _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.11 06:34:00 - [43] Be prepared for a suprise when you actually use anything but Caldair to try to snipe ;)
Felix Dzerzhinsky	Posted - 2006.12.11 06:41:00 - [44] Originally by: Aeaus Be prepared for a suprise when you actually use anything but Caldair to try to snipe ;) my thoughts exactly. The trick, as stated before, is that you can use lower range/higher damage ammo when other people are using their max range/low damage ammo. . . so on paper, without considering what kind of ammo goes so far, ya, the Rohk is bad, but when you consider the ammo - range component. . .thats when it all makes sense. But we all know this already, and if it does not convince some people, they will just have to experience it on the reciving end oncce or twice and figure it out.
Scordite	Posted - 2006.12.11 06:42:00 - [45] You don't even need a pure rokh fleet to take advantage. Your normal blob of geddon/apoc/abaddon/mega/tempest with support warp in at their optimal, rokhs warp in further out. The normal ships are a lil better tanked than usual, and warp back and forth as a result of being called primary. Rokhs just sit and dps non-stop from start to finish. Recalculate dps to take into account time wasted on warps on all other ships, then we'll see who gets the higher number. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
NeoGeist	Posted - 2006.12.11 07:34:00 - [46] Edited by: NeoGeist on 11/12/2006 07:36:18 Funny
Vardemis Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.11 07:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Zhon Pretty straight forward. The ship look pretty cool, but compared to the otehr fleet gunboats its a few cards short of a deck. You are too early I am afraid, start the whine after the nerf please.
Nybbas Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:39:00 - [48] usually i contribute anti something (insert race/ship/class here) to be mostly due to the whole "grass is greener on the other side" In WOW the horde think the alliance are unbalanced, the alliance whine that the horde are unbalanced. This is to be expected in ANY game in which people play online. But I can't possibly say that is the case with eve. I see such an incredible amount of people whining about the caldari, (not whining about gallente, amarr, minmatar) and the only people defending the caldari are either DIEHARD caldari fans (jim raynor) and people who seemingly have no clue whatsoever (OP) I can understand CCP not just listening and catering to everyone who whines.... but there is such an overwhelming amount of eve players who look at caldari and see a race that has been given newer and better things at every patch while the other races seemingly just get screwed over... I really don't get it. The gallente get another mediocre blaster boat (i mean what the rokh can compete with the hyperion as a blaster boat... ARE YOU KIDDING ME??) the minmatar and amarr both got a sub par tier three... and then shining above it all is all any caldari should have been asking for, the best fleet ship in the friggin game, to go along with their best ewar boat, and the raven which is more or less the ship that can handle any situation you throw at it. I am rambling... buts it is really disheartening to see what is going on as far as the balancing and implementation of some of this new content...
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:53:00 - [49] Originally by: Zhon Yeah you can hit at 170+ with what kind of ammo. You may be able to hit that far, not like you are going to knock any heads off. Abandon does more damage at range. Maelstrom Does more damage better Tank at range. Actually the Megathron does about the same damage, not as good tank though. Don't take it the wrong way just from what I have seen the other teir 3 bs's are loads better. I have heard way more about Blaster Rokhs than I have heard about Rail Rokhs. Seriously would like to be proven wrong on this, but I don't even see the point when the other ship seem to be way better. As for Amarr being overpowerd. Yes. Nerf them, No. Cosmo would kill himself. enlighten me, how does the maelstrom have a better tank when the other ships have to spend half their slots on tracking computers? And how the hell is amarr overpowered?
Siakel	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:57:00 - [50] Originally by: Deathbarrage And how the hell is amarr overpowered? Because the Abaddon can cap out faster than any other ship, and that's unfair to the other races? Really though, all you have to do is look at the OP to decide this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:09:00 - [51] Originally by: Nyxus Think about it. Super good zomg tank with pretty good damage from ACs. No ecm, no tackling, no propulsion. Just tank and gank. That's Amarr fighting style at it's core. especially the autocannon part, right ? NB. In Rust We Trust
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:13:00 - [52] Originally by: Nyxus The Maelstrom is an Amarrian Concept ship. Thats why Matari hate it. Think about it. Super good zomg tank with pretty good damage from ACs. No ecm, no tackling, no propulsion. Just tank and gank. That's Amarr fighting style at it's core. Except it doesnt have the DPS to gank. Or the innate extra range that Amarr get when using pulse that means they dont need an speed mod. I agree with you - except it's like a poor man's Amarr ship. An Amarr style ship would do me fine :) Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:29:00 - [53] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Nyxus The Maelstrom is an Amarrian Concept ship. Thats why Matari hate it. Think about it. Super good zomg tank with pretty good damage from ACs. No ecm, no tackling, no propulsion. Just tank and gank. That's Amarr fighting style at it's core. Except it doesnt have the DPS to gank. Or the innate extra range that Amarr get when using pulse that means they dont need an speed mod. I agree with you - except it's like a poor man's Amarr ship. An Amarr style ship would do me fine :) fit a maelstrom with AC's it'll hit out further then the megapulse with conflag while still doing just about the same dps cuz you can fill your lows with dmg mods while the abaddon has to tank
Paper Clips	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:30:00 - [54] I'd trade both bonuses on the Maelstrom for both of the Rokh's bonuses, any freaking day.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:34:00 - [55] Yeah, the Rokh does seem to have a lot of bluntness in the design. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Nyxus The Maelstrom is an Amarrian Concept ship. Thats why Matari hate it. Think about it. Super good zomg tank with pretty good damage from ACs. No ecm, no tackling, no propulsion. Just tank and gank. That's Amarr fighting style at it's core. Except it doesnt have the DPS to gank. Or the innate extra range that Amarr get when using pulse that means they dont need an speed mod. I agree with you - except it's like a poor man's Amarr ship. An Amarr style ship would do me fine :) fit a maelstrom with AC's it'll hit out further then the megapulse with conflag while still doing just about the same dps cuz you can fill your lows with dmg mods while the abaddon has to tank You have to be kidding me right? If you want to use Conflag in any sort of argument vs Autocannons you need to consider HAIL L which makes The Maelstrom one gimp of a ship using its shield tank. Hello, Shield tank + 5% cap recharge penalty per gun on top of the 50% range reduction. It demands a cap injector setup and will put you out in long fights once you run out. And you WILL run out. Now if you want to compare barrage to scorch... just remember Scortch plays to the tune of optimal range that pulses are superior while barrage play to the range of falloff that autocannons are superior with. You wanna whambulance about em/thermal damage then we could whambulance about expl/kin on shields. To-may-toes, to-mah-toes. And if you want to talk about tanks... we need injector setup and a speed mod on 6 mids which leaves you with 4 mids to tank. 3 damge mods on a abaddon leaves you 4 low slots to tank... Oh... and you get a nice resistance bonus to boot. Both our bonuses give us a free slot to our tank. So if you compare... both ships have it tough but I do believe the abaddon makes best use of its guns AND bonus. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaleeb S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:18:00 - [57] I`m impressed with all the tier 3 bs tbh, if used correctly with the right setups they are all devasting in different ways.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Kaleeb I`m impressed with all the tier 3 bs tbh, if used correctly with the right setups they are all devasting in different ways. Devestating is not a word I would use in the same sentence as the maelstrom. I use one in PVP and its anything BUT. Mediocrestrom is what I'd label it as. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaleeb S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2006.12.16 01:14:00 - [59] Whats your setup? I havent really found anything that can stand up to mine yet unless its a all nos setup
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:04:00 - [60] I agree completely with the OP. Anyone who doesn't is a complete idiot. This thread really is pointless.

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