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When is CCP going to declare this as exploiting a bug? (Contract Scam)

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Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.12 08:02:00 - [31] Scams are good.. keeps people on their toes... Those familiar with the trade system wont be had... just like.. omg... real life. example: used cars... will a mechanic get screwed on a used car? not unless he finds a body in the boot. and anyone whos smart enough to have a mechanic check a car they wanna buy wont get screwed over either. Dont be stupid. Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be **ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ***** nerf. True story
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Scams are good.. keeps people on their toes... Contracts are useless.
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:34:00 - [33] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Those familiar with the trade system wont be had... just like.. omg... real life. Let's follow this to it's logical conclussion.... People who are caught scamming should be punished just like.. omg... real life.
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.17 06:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Moraguth I hear ya Dawne. I haven't been scammed, and i'm not likely to be scammed, but it should have a 1 in there. No, not just for the stupid people, and no, not to make this game turn into easy-mode (caldari?) or wow, but because it only makes sense. It should be consistent with the way the rest of it is displayed, and no, to that moron who said "no value obvioulsy means 1" or some such nonsense, it doesn't. It is very misleading when they can put in any quantity they want because it looks legit. Yeah we'll see what happens -- just seems stupid to me to include no quantity anywhere on the screen at all when there is a quantity of one.. I have to imagine it actually took extra code to do it.
Sile Suirghiche Gaidhlig Technology	Posted - 2006.12.17 07:05:00 - [35] I understand that when anyone asks for a change, any change, the "go play WoW" chorus erupts in their "stoopid noobs" theme, but: Why would anyone actually argue so strenuously against this on it's own merits? It won't cost you anything, it won't nerf piracy, it won't abolish PvP, it won't make you move to Jita and become a fuzzy wuzzy carebear. The current vague interface doesn't add anything important to the game, so why not have a dev take the 10 minutes to change it?
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:34:00 - [36] Originally by: Sile Suirghiche Why would anyone actually argue so strenuously against this on it's own merits? Sile I can only assume that those who argue against this, are using it to scam people out of ISK. Otherwise, they're just stupid. Wait I take that back... either way, they're stupid.
Clytamar	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:23:00 - [37] Edited by: Clytamar on 17/12/2006 11:23:14 I got scammed for _bidding_ for relatively cheap zydrine with a very reasonable buyout price (what the seller would have gotten from the markets, hence making the auction seem more legimate). I was, perhaps, stupid or careless. Never the less I lost (only) 25 MISK because of this "inconsistency" of the contracts interface. This is nothing compared to the ISK you can loose when setting up or changing buy and sell orders because the UI in general is poor, confusing and the font is far too small and illegible. (50 MISK for missing a digit in sell order. That was stupid. Could have been far worse.) C
Chronz	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:45:00 - [38] I do not see how this is a bug in anyway shape or form- by default if there is no "x = quantity" then that CLEARY INDICATES THERES NO QUANTITY- I agree that only stupid ppl get scammed.
Karodnotos Caldari Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:58:00 - [39] I agree that there should be a 'x 1' when you are buying minerals, but please dont make this on every single contract. 'You are buying CNR x 1' just looks stupid... ___________________ Eve Wiki \| dont forget
Cherry Picker	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:01:00 - [40] while I sympathise with your plight I would like to take this opportunity to inform you that: /enter general Eve player mode A-This is Eve.Anything is possible.CCP actively encourage these sort of things because it adds to the 'realism' of the game. B-Who cares?It didnt happen to me so why should I be bothered by it. C-Get used to it.If you want a 'perfect'game where everything works as it should you are playing the wrong game. D-Go play WoW.(A classic reply) E-It isnt scamming its roleplaying.(Another classic reply) F-You are an idiot and its all your own fault. G-lol. /turn off Eve player mode Just make an alt and go scam people yourself.It's much better than working for your isk and if you get caught scamming just make another char.Forget common decency,forget any rl values you may have,forget about being honourable,forget about ruining someone elses day-THIS IS EVE.Internet anonimity is your friend.Use it and abuse it. ps my main made nearly 350 mill with scams in a week. If you cant beat em join em.
Lokyi	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:01:00 - [41] My guess would be, that the people moaning about it having to stay the way it is are most likely scammers themselves. Or alts thereof lol. Yes there were scams int he old escrow system, but at least you could inspect stuff properly and it brought up what it REALLY was. I can't be bothered with this new contract system as it's a pain in the arse to understand. What seems good is that you can check every region in the universe. I don't quite understand why it can't be a mirror of the awesome market system they have in place. Quite easy, quantity, price, description... where it's located... Why make buying stuff so difficult? Yes there are stupid people out there, but stupid people want to buy stuff just the same as smart people do. I don't care what mentality the buyer of an item I am selling is, I just want to sell it for a fair price. I believe if you did this in RL you would be screwed, so why make it any diff in eve?
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Rutoo Short Story I know someone who got a battleship for 1.1 million. Some Dude was adversieing selling a rattlesnake for 1.1 billion. Opened trade window with the guy Traded a Scorp named "RattleSnake" Needless to say, the Dude put 1.1 million in the trade window and click accept, The "Scammer" also clicked accept and needless to say, a Scorp was bought for 1.1 Million isk This is a perfect example of the scammer getting scammed. muhaha Classic. Love it.
Decarus Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:20:00 - [43] There's a saying whic goes: "You can't con an honest man". You see, in order to scam someone the scammer attempts to convince the scammee that the latter is indeed getting the better of him. There are mulitple ways to do this but they all pretty much revolve around clouding the scammees judgement with his own greed. How else is someone going to decide not to read over the contract he's accepting? Space is vast, cold and harsh. Deal with it. ~Decarus, DANGER! Highly corrosive chemical material. Contact may cause severe irritation, burns or poisoning. Keep away from children.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Dawne Xi Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:59:13 Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:58:21 Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:55:40 Do not post images directly - Xorus Sorry Xorus, there's a button for it, so I used it. Won't happen again if its not allowed. Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:41:21 On contracts of items that have a quantity of anything other than one (1), the quantity is clearly shown with a "X #####" after the item shown in the "Offered Items" section of the contract. Any item that is a quantity of one (1), does not have it's quantity listed as "X 1" I have reported this in the Bug Reports and am wondering when CCP is going to put out the general warning to everyone exploiting this bug. See images below as examples (note the one that has no quantity listed but is advertised as a quantity of 30,000 and a price of 75,000,000 isk). Image of Quantity greater than one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_gtone.gif Image of Quantity of one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_one.gif edited for grammar Bless you for railing away into the wind about something that's not right. News flash for you: 80% of the world (or more) has no or low character. Character is not defined by your actions when eyes are upon you and consequences are in effect, but by your actions when there are no consequences. Folks here are flaming you primarily because they have low character (but still a conscience) and want to rationalize it away. Making honest folks like you and me more disgusted over time. The dev team is well aware of this issue by now and apparently doesn't care. So if you want to have an effect, raise awareness in every local of every system you go through so folks now know about the issue. I've been mentioning it every time I see discussions about contracts in local. Get proactive if you want to do something about it because they devs apparently won't. --------- Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
Sile Suirghiche Gaidhlig Technology	Posted - 2006.12.17 18:06:00 - [45] Originally by: Decarus There's a saying whic goes: "You can't con an honest man". It may be old, but that doesn't make it anything like true. Further, this isn't a con, this is just lying and cheating people. Honest people get lied to and cheated all the time. That's why IRL we have cops, courts, contract law, the BBB, the SEC, etc. If it makes you feel any better, after they fix this issue people will still get lied to, cheated and scammed in Eve, but it will take some actual trickery and cunning on the scammer's part in order to make off with your enormous bales of your hard-earned ISK. (A potential which, as it happens, I love about this game.)
Atius Tirawa	Posted - 2006.12.17 19:39:00 - [46] My desires for the contracts page: 1) Take away all that graphic crap on the left with the piece of paper - replace it with a single letter (T = trade, A = Acution etc.) 2) allow for people to make the fonts smaller or larger and to list as many auctions per page as they wish - clicking to get to the next page is awful. Make it more 'excel' like escrow was. 3) start looking for repeat scammers and remove them - I don't mind scammers, but I am tired of dealing with their sell orders when I can only view 10 or so contracts per page and wait for the next page to come up. In summary: remove useless graphics, make it more excell like, remove repeat scammers - or - make the UI better so we can still get a good picture of the market even with the scammers out there.
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.17 22:07:00 - [47] Originally by: Chronz I do not see how this is a bug in anyway shape or form- by default if there is no "x = quantity" then that CLEARY INDICATES THERES NO QUANTITY- I agree that only stupid ppl get scammed. Huh? Perhaps you should consult a dictionary... Definition 2 should be of partilcular interest to you. no ûadjective 1. not any: no money. 2. not at all; far from being: He is no genius. Reference: www.dictionary.com
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.18 08:32:00 - [48] Originally by: SSgt Sniper The dev team is well aware of this issue by now and apparently doesn't care. So if you want to have an effect, raise awareness in every local of every system you go through so folks now know about the issue. I've been mentioning it every time I see discussions about contracts in local. Get proactive if you want to do something about it because they devs apparently won't. So far I've been limiting it to encouraging people who come to the Help Channel wanting to know what happened, to file an exploit petition ... I do it everytime I see one of these contracts and have a free "exploit" petition slot open :) I might try some other approaches as well.... Thanks for the suggestion. CCP should still fix this.
Vandamsel Gallente Dead Eagle	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Roshan longshot First thing...Miss LadyDragon is a known escrow scammmer. Second thing, if one does not look at what he is buying, then fine...he deserves it. Third why are you buying minerals? Cheaper to mine them your self. you took the words right out of my mouth
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.19 18:10:00 - [50] Perhaps they should have stayed there. Anyone else thinking those opposed to this are scammers?
DHU InMe Gallente JUSTICE Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.19 18:59:00 - [51] Here my thread about the same problem __ UI Overhaul Eve Links http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread
Vil'Hem Rekrap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.20 04:27:00 - [52] If it's intended to show just the item if the quantity is 1 and the item + "X (insert quantity here)" if it's more than one...this isn't really an exploit or a bug. If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it. I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
Sile Suirghiche Gaidhlig Technology	Posted - 2006.12.20 05:35:00 - [53] Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming). If the contracts system allowed you to "check the box" then you might be onto something here, but (unlike the old escrow system) it doesn't.
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap If it's intended to show just the item if the quantity is 1 and the item + "X (insert quantity here)" if it's more than one...this isn't really an exploit or a bug. If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it. I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming). Another one of the "No quantity means One" crowd... I refer you to the definition of "no," a few posts above yours. Way to miss the point entirely!
Roy Batty68	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:38:00 - [55] It shouldn't be changed. I don't scam. I have yet to be scammed. The danger of it should remain though. I don't play WoW for a reason. Quit trying to make EVE WoW safe. The contract system needs some changes. It needs better filtering choices and the ability to look at and buy from bigger areas at once. It doesn't need to be made scam proof though. Originally by: Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
Vil'Hem Rekrap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:11:00 - [56] Edited by: Vil''Hem Rekrap on 20/12/2006 17:13:28 Originally by: Dawne Xi Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap If it's intended to show just the item if the quantity is 1 and the item + "X (insert quantity here)" if it's more than one...this isn't really an exploit or a bug. If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it. I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming). Another one of the "No quantity means One" crowd... I refer you to the definition of "no," a few posts above yours. Way to miss the point entirely! First, at no point did I say "no quantity means one", so I'm not sure how this idiocy applies to me (I'll get to that in point 2). I said if it shows JUST the item, it's 1...if it shows the item and "x= (quantity)", it's the quantity listed. Secondly, going by the definition you posted, "no quantity means One" is legitimate and is exactly what the OP is arguing against. I'll spell that little phrase out since it seems to be you who is missing the point. "If there is no quantity listed next to the item in the contract that means there is only one of said item". So yes...by the definition you yourself posted (of which #1 would be more accurate since there is 'not any' quantity listed), the usage from the previous poster was correct. Thirdly, there's no huge need to be pedantic, here. Some people who post are probably not going to be grammatical giants, but any person with reasonable intelligence can correlate what's meant based on context. If you don't understand what I'm saying about the "no quantity" phrase being correct by this point, I'll just have to let it pass so we stop cluttering the thread with useless, off topic crap.
Vil'Hem Rekrap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:20:00 - [57] Originally by: Sile Suirghiche Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming). If the contracts system allowed you to "check the box" then you might be onto something here, but (unlike the old escrow system) it doesn't. In this instance, there is, actually. Right click the contract, then select "view contract". At the bottom it'll show the offered item. If it's 1 of that item, it'll simply show the item name with the icon for it. If it's more than one, it'll show the item times however many it is. If it's several types of item it'll show a list with separate categories for the name, quantity, type, etc. A webifier, to me, means a webifier. A single item. It doesn't look plural. A webifier x 4, to me, looks like a webifier 4 times. Or...4 webifiers. I'd much rather devs waste their time making titan wrecks pink than waste time fixing something that isn't broken.
Decarus Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:22:00 - [58] It really isn't that hard to get your head around, <A picture of an item> := means this is the item you'll get. <A picture of an item> * Y := means this is the item you'll get multiplied by Y However, <A picture of an item> * 1 := Horribly redundant, in my opinion of course. It's like saying 1 * 1 rather than just 1. And I'm still sticking to: "Nobody is going to get scammed if they'd read over the contract. Especially not now that this scam has been exposed in a plethora of different threads here... UNLESS they're being hasty and not reading the contract on account of thinking they're making the deal of their lifetime on the expense of some silly sob, and don't want to miss the chance." And stop calling this an exploit. Perfectly normal game mechanics, not being exploited in any way. This is either a scam (which the Devs are cool with people doing) or a bug.. and it can only be classified as a bug if the Devs are supposed to assume that the players dont understand basic math. The difference between a unit and a unit multiplied by a number is BASIC. ~Decarus, DANGER! Highly corrosive chemical material. Contact may cause severe irritation, burns or poisoning. Keep away from children.
Vil'Hem Rekrap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:28:00 - [59] Originally by: Decarus It really isn't that hard to get your head around, The difference between a unit and a unit multiplied by a number is BASIC. Apparently it's not to some people. After reading this thread, though, I'm almost tempted to go make an alt myself.
Nardon Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap Originally by: Sile Suirghiche Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming). If the contracts system allowed you to "check the box" then you might be onto something here, but (unlike the old escrow system) it doesn't. In this instance, there is, actually. Right click the contract, then select "view contract". At the bottom it'll show the offered item. If it's 1 of that item, it'll simply show the item name with the icon for it. If it's more than one, it'll show the item times however many it is. If it's several types of item it'll show a list with separate categories for the name, quantity, type, etc. A webifier, to me, means a webifier. A single item. It doesn't look plural. A webifier x 4, to me, looks like a webifier 4 times. Or...4 webifiers. I'd much rather devs waste their time making titan wrecks pink than waste time fixing something that isn't broken. I beg to disagree here. As you logically state there is a way to determine the quantity of the item in question by the "x #" identifier. Since this is omitted for a single item there is no way to tell how many items are included. Of course a viable assumption is there is one item there. But assumptions are what scammers work on. So if people get confused about the amount of items there are...well the scammer is successfull. And since the visual clues emphasize the given description people who are new to the system are prone to get confused and scammed. Once they get used to it they won't fall for it. That doesn't make the point invalid however.

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