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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:59:13
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:58:21
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:55:40
Do not post images directly - Xorus
Sorry Xorus, there's a button for it, so I used it. Won't happen again if its not allowed.
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:41:21
On contracts of items that have a quantity of anything other than one (1), the quantity is clearly shown with a "X #####" after the item shown in the "Offered Items" section of the contract. Any item that is a quantity of one (1), does not have it's quantity listed as "X 1" I have reported this in the Bug Reports and am wondering when CCP is going to put out the general warning to everyone exploiting this bug. See images below as examples (note the one that has no quantity listed but is advertised as a quantity of 30,000 and a price of 75,000,000 isk).
Image of Quantity greater than one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_gtone.gif
Image of Quantity of one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_one.gif
edited for grammar
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Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:45:00 -
[2]
First thing...Miss LadyDragon is a known escrow scammmer.
Second thing, if one does not look at what he is buying, then fine...he deserves it.
Third why are you buying minerals? Cheaper to mine them your self.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:48:00 -
[3]
I am sure I heard the patch on Wednesday would correct this. Nothing in the patch notes though. They usually put things like that in the notes at the last minute so it won't give people ideas in the meantime on how to scam people.
And on EVE TV Ouver said some contracts do not work as intended and they were meant to be 'enforcable' by CCP, whatever that means. I was maybe as drunk as he was last night so I don't have much comprehension of the situation.
As for it being declared an exploit, and a general warning, I agree on that if it isn't already viewed as such by the BM's already.
------
Shakor Clan Information Portal
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:50:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Roshan longshot
Second thing, if one does not look at what he is buying, then fine...he deserves it.
Roshan perhaps you misunderstood my point, could you tell me exactly where it says that the Megacyte is a quantity of one? I don't see it. And don't say "Oh if it has no quantity you should know it's one."
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
First thing...Miss LadyDragon is a known escrow scammmer.
Second thing, if one does not look at what he is buying, then fine...he deserves it.
First of all, not everyone knows that. We don't all keep up to date with the 'Scammer Times top 10 list' I didn't know this and I do read the forums.
Second of all, people would be under the assumption that the 'Contract Description' is autogenerated, not player generated, and think the item displayed at the bottom is just there for informations sake and doesn't show quantity. Hence why people are scamming this way. It is pretty easy to miss afterall if you are not an avid escrower.
------
Shakor Clan Information Portal
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
I am sure I heard the patch on Wednesday would correct this. Nothing in the patch notes though.
We can only hope this is the case. Thanks for the info Darius
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:57:00 -
[7]
As I said in the help channel, the UI team has to explicitely design and code it so it does not show the 'x 1' for a single item.
This is a design decision, not a glitch. All we can do is hope that the dev team decides that this was not a good decision.
Maybe it might help to have the devs work on the petitions for two weeks per three months of devdom. 
And you better use the market for mineral trades. The skills for broker fees and market tax do work there. (Not that the market is a brilliant piece of UI design, but that's another topic.)
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Rutoo
Gallente
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:24:00 -
[8]
Short Story
I know someone who got a battleship for 1.1 million.
Some Dude was adversieing selling a rattlesnake for 1.1 billion. Opened trade window with the guy Traded a Scorp named "RattleSnake" Needless to say, the Dude put 1.1 million in the trade window and click accept,
The "Scammer" also clicked accept and needless to say, a Scorp was bought for 1.1 Million isk
This is a perfect example of the scammer getting scammed.
muhaha
_________________________________________________________
My First EvE Video
Club Seals Not Sandwichs |
Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rutoo
Short Story
I know someone who got a battleship for 1.1 million.
Some Dude was adversieing selling a rattlesnake for 1.1 billion. Opened trade window with the guy Traded a Scorp named "RattleSnake" Needless to say, the Dude put 1.1 million in the trade window and click accept,
The "Scammer" also clicked accept and needless to say, a Scorp was bought for 1.1 Million isk
This is a perfect example of the scammer getting scammed.
muhaha
Fairly off topic though it is, that is totally totally awesome. Quick thinking 4tw :D
- - - - - - - - - -
"PERGITE DEGUSTATE FORMOSUM BELLUM"
Forward to taste the beautiful war. . . |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:41:00 -
[10]
I like it the way it is now. It is much cleaner not having x 1 after single items.
Really, I can't get excited if a few dullards get scammed. It is part of the game. And anyway no matter what is done, the overwhelming stupidity of some people will overcome all sa***uards.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Banana Torres
I like it the way it is now. It is much cleaner not having x 1 after single items.
You're missing the point -- It's inconsistent to not put quantities in the contract, regardless of what the quantity is. Put Qty: 1 under the item for all I care. I just want it to be consistent.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:30:00 -
[12]
Never - because it isn't.
MOOCIFER  Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer & Warwick Castle Gamekeeper |
Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.11 18:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Third why are you buying minerals? Cheaper to mine them your self.
Since I build several freighter and many other ships a month, where can I get a ship that will let me mine that much? I dont know if he has the same bulk issues but it is much less boring and time intensive to just buy the minerals.
Would be nice if it was actually hard to scam but dont expect CCP to fix anything.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Tao Han
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.12.11 18:33:00 -
[14]
To be honest here, it does say that there is a megacyte for sale.
Its just the same as the old "pretend 1 trit is a CNR" escrow scam, look before you purchase, please.
I dont see a bug here.
Saving the world, one bottle at the time |
Nicocat
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:07:00 -
[15]
Ha ha. Someone got scammed because they bought stuff off a contract with their ******* eyes closed. What do you usually think when you see an item with no quantity? I think "one."
----------------------------
Originally by: Splagada
SEED ME DADDY
WTB: Friggin' portrait |
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.11 20:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tao Han
To be honest here, it does say that there is a megacyte for sale.
I dont see a bug here.
It does not say "a megacyte" at all, in fact it doesn't give any indication of quantity, except in the description (which doesn't say it's entered by the player)... And in your reference to the old pretend 1 trit equals a CNR scam, at least, when you viewed the contract it said 1 tritanium. That has nothing to do with the point I am making.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.11 20:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nicocat
Ha ha. Someone got scammed because they bought stuff off a contract with their ******* eyes closed. What do you usually think when you see an item with no quantity? I think "one."
I was not scammed at all, but there are quite a few who have been. And I don't even know how to reply to the rest of your comment since it makes no sense at all.... or would that be one sense?
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Ariel Stardust
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Posted - 2006.12.11 20:36:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ariel Stardust on 11/12/2006 20:37:05
Why do people confuse design decision with exploit?
People get burned, then want to change the rules of the game to suit themselves. Lawl.
/me continues counting ISK 
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Calio
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.11 21:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ariel Stardust
Edited by: Ariel Stardust on 11/12/2006 20:37:05
Why do people confuse design decision with exploit?
Because people have a hard time believing such a ****-poor design decision was actually intentional.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
Sillys
Minmatar
The Fellowship of the Fallen
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Posted - 2006.12.11 22:44:00 -
[20]
It would be nice if windows for multiple items became "default".
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:29:00 -
[21]
Contracts replace escrow, they do not replace the need for you to inspect what you're buying.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Redart
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Redart on 12/12/2006 00:04:30
Originally by: Calio
Originally by: Ariel Stardust
Edited by: Ariel Stardust on 11/12/2006 20:37:05
Why do people confuse design decision with exploit?
Because people have a hard time believing such a ****-poor design decision was actually intentional.
Just because YOU think it's ****-poor does it really mean it is?
Sorry, I would rather have the chance of being scammed than go play a game like WoW where I'm locked down in everything I do.
Freedom has a price. Live with it or leave.
This was probably put in quite intentionally. Because for 1, only stupid ppl get scammed. Stupid people don't understand markets, stupid ppl therefore screw up markets... moral? Stupid ppl don't deserve money, they will only screw it up.
Survival of the fittest.
Some of these scammers are down right moronic. I was in BP channel the other day getting the word out about one of my contracts and this character who was born back in July comes on selling a Titan BPO. I messed around with him a bit to try and figure out a way to scam him back (nothing wrong with scamming scammers, so bite me). He couldn't even link the BPO and wanted me to send him money first.
If ppl get scammed by ppl like Ridsi, then they really need to just give up on life all together.
Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
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Admiral Pieg
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.12 00:26:00 -
[23]
This is getting quite annoying since you can only get so many contract views per page and right now we have to wade through 99% scams (which are so obvious it hurts)t o find anything, if only we had some sorting optioions (sort by price/ammount etc) this wouldnt be a problem.
Also, is there any way to make the actual contract listings a bit smaller so that you get to see more contracts per page?
______________
Pod from above. |
Redart
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.12.12 00:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Admiral Pieg
This is getting quite annoying since you can only get so many contract views per page and right now we have to wade through 99% scams (which are so obvious it hurts)t o find anything, if only we had some sorting optioions (sort by price/ammount etc) this wouldnt be a problem.
Also, is there any way to make the actual contract listings a bit smaller so that you get to see more contracts per page?
Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes.
All you mentioned are available. Click More Options.
Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.12.12 00:54:00 -
[25]
Doesn't it tell you the quantity in the final confirmation window?
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Sorja
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.12.12 01:51:00 -
[26]
This is not a 'bug' but a poor interface.
It is indeed misleading and needs to be changed.
____________________
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Contracts replace escrow, they do not replace the need for you to inspect what you're buying.
Show me where it tells me quantity of one, and I'll agree - the point is, even upon inspection, it's not obvious all you are buying is one item. And see above before you say "No quantity means one...." because that's BS. It's a bug or poor design or whatever, it's being exploited and needs to be fixed.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:49:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sorja
This is not a 'bug' but a poor interface.
It is indeed misleading and needs to be changed.
Finally a voice of reason amoungst the, well whatever they are....
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Redart
Edited by: Redart on 12/12/2006 00:48:56
Originally by: Calio
Originally by: Ariel Stardust
Edited by: Ariel Stardust on 11/12/2006 20:37:05
Why do people confuse design decision with exploit?
Because people have a hard time believing such a ****-poor design decision was actually intentional.
Just because YOU think it's ****-poor does it really mean it is?
Sorry, I would rather have the chance of being scammed than go play a game like WoW where I'm locked down in everything I do.
Freedom has a price. Live with it or leave. I'm just smart enough not to pay that price.
This was probably put in quite intentionally. Because for 1, only stupid ppl get scammed. Stupid people don't understand markets, stupid ppl therefore screw up markets... moral? Stupid ppl don't deserve money, they will only screw it up.
Survival of the fittest.
Some of these scammers are down right moronic. I was in BP channel the other day getting the word out about one of my contracts and this character who was born back in July comes on selling a Titan BPO. I messed around with him a bit to try and figure out a way to scam him back (nothing wrong with scamming scammers, so bite me). He couldn't even link the BPO and wanted me to send him money first.
If ppl get scammed by ppl like Ridsi, then they really need to just give up on life all together.
What?
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Moraguth
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Posted - 2006.12.12 05:53:00 -
[30]
I hear ya Dawne. I haven't been scammed, and i'm not likely to be scammed, but it should have a 1 in there. No, not just for the stupid people, and no, not to make this game turn into easy-mode (caldari?) or wow, but because it only makes sense. It should be consistent with the way the rest of it is displayed, and no, to that moron who said "no value obvioulsy means 1" or some such nonsense, it doesn't. It is very misleading when they can put in any quantity they want because it looks legit.
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.12.12 08:02:00 -
[31]
Scams are good.. keeps people on their toes...
Those familiar with the trade system wont be had...
just like.. omg... real life.
example: used cars... will a mechanic get screwed on a used car? not unless he finds a body in the boot. and anyone whos smart enough to have a mechanic check a car they wanna buy wont get screwed over either.
Dont be stupid.
Quote:
Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Scams are good.. keeps people on their toes...
Contracts are useless.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:34:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Those familiar with the trade system wont be had...
just like.. omg... real life.
Let's follow this to it's logical conclussion.... People who are caught scamming should be punished just like.. omg... real life.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.17 06:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Moraguth
I hear ya Dawne. I haven't been scammed, and i'm not likely to be scammed, but it should have a 1 in there. No, not just for the stupid people, and no, not to make this game turn into easy-mode (caldari?) or wow, but because it only makes sense. It should be consistent with the way the rest of it is displayed, and no, to that moron who said "no value obvioulsy means 1" or some such nonsense, it doesn't. It is very misleading when they can put in any quantity they want because it looks legit.
Yeah we'll see what happens -- just seems stupid to me to include no quantity anywhere on the screen at all when there is a quantity of one.. I have to imagine it actually took extra code to do it.
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Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2006.12.17 07:05:00 -
[35]
I understand that when anyone asks for a change, any change, the "go play WoW" chorus erupts in their "stoopid noobs" theme, but: Why would anyone actually argue so strenuously against this on it's own merits? It won't cost you anything, it won't nerf piracy, it won't abolish PvP, it won't make you move to Jita and become a fuzzy wuzzy carebear.
The current vague interface doesn't add anything important to the game, so why not have a dev take the 10 minutes to change it?
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.17 09:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Why would anyone actually argue so strenuously against this on it's own merits?
Sile I can only assume that those who argue against this, are using it to scam people out of ISK. Otherwise, they're just stupid. Wait I take that back... either way, they're stupid.
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Clytamar
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Posted - 2006.12.17 11:23:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Clytamar on 17/12/2006 11:23:14
I got scammed for _bidding_ for relatively cheap zydrine with
a very reasonable buyout price (what the seller would have gotten
from the markets, hence making the auction seem more legimate).
I was, perhaps, stupid or careless. Never the
less I lost (only) 25 MISK because of this "inconsistency" of the
contracts interface. This is nothing compared to the ISK you
can loose when setting up or changing buy and sell orders because the UI
in general is poor, confusing and the font is far too small and illegible.
(50 MISK for missing a digit in sell order. That was stupid.
Could have been far worse.)
C
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Chronz
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Posted - 2006.12.17 11:45:00 -
[38]
I do not see how this is a bug in anyway shape or form- by default if there is no "x = quantity" then that CLEARY INDICATES THERES NO QUANTITY-
I agree that only stupid ppl get scammed.
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Karodnotos
Caldari
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.12.17 11:58:00 -
[39]
I agree that there should be a 'x 1' when you are buying minerals, but please dont make this on every single contract.
'You are buying CNR x 1' just looks stupid...
___________________
Eve Wiki | dont forget |
Cherry Picker
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Posted - 2006.12.17 12:01:00 -
[40]
while I sympathise with your plight I would like to take this opportunity to inform you that:
/enter general Eve player mode
A-This is Eve.Anything is possible.CCP actively encourage these sort of things because it adds to the 'realism' of the game.
B-Who cares?It didnt happen to me so why should I be bothered by it.
C-Get used to it.If you want a 'perfect'game where everything works as it should you are playing the wrong game.
D-Go play WoW.(A classic reply)
E-It isnt scamming its roleplaying.(Another classic reply)
F-You are an idiot and its all your own fault.
G-lol.
/turn off Eve player mode
Just make an alt and go scam people yourself.It's much better than working for your isk and if you get caught scamming just make another char.Forget common decency,forget any rl values you may have,forget about being honourable,forget about ruining someone elses day-THIS IS EVE.Internet anonimity is your friend.Use it and abuse it.
ps my main made nearly 350 mill with scams in a week.
If you cant beat em join em.
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Lokyi
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Posted - 2006.12.17 12:01:00 -
[41]
My guess would be, that the people moaning about it having to stay the way it is are most likely scammers themselves. Or alts thereof lol.
Yes there were scams int he old escrow system, but at least you could inspect stuff properly and it brought up what it REALLY was.
I can't be bothered with this new contract system as it's a pain in the arse to understand. What seems good is that you can check every region in the universe. I don't quite understand why it can't be a mirror of the awesome market system they have in place. Quite easy, quantity, price, description... where it's located...
Why make buying stuff so difficult?
Yes there are stupid people out there, but stupid people want to buy stuff just the same as smart people do. I don't care what mentality the buyer of an item I am selling is, I just want to sell it for a fair price.
I believe if you did this in RL you would be screwed, so why make it any diff in eve?
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.17 12:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rutoo
Short Story
I know someone who got a battleship for 1.1 million.
Some Dude was adversieing selling a rattlesnake for 1.1 billion. Opened trade window with the guy Traded a Scorp named "RattleSnake" Needless to say, the Dude put 1.1 million in the trade window and click accept,
The "Scammer" also clicked accept and needless to say, a Scorp was bought for 1.1 Million isk
This is a perfect example of the scammer getting scammed.
muhaha
Classic. Love it.
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Decarus
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.17 12:20:00 -
[43]
There's a saying whic goes: "You can't con an honest man".
You see, in order to scam someone the scammer attempts to convince the scammee that the latter is indeed getting the better of him. There are mulitple ways to do this but they all pretty much revolve around clouding the scammees judgement with his own greed. How else is someone going to decide not to read over the contract he's accepting?
Space is vast, cold and harsh. Deal with it.
~Decarus,
DANGER! Highly corrosive chemical material. Contact may cause severe irritation, burns or poisoning. Keep away from children. |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.12.17 12:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:59:13
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:58:21
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:55:40
Do not post images directly - Xorus
Sorry Xorus, there's a button for it, so I used it. Won't happen again if its not allowed.
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 11/12/2006 14:41:21
On contracts of items that have a quantity of anything other than one (1), the quantity is clearly shown with a "X #####" after the item shown in the "Offered Items" section of the contract. Any item that is a quantity of one (1), does not have it's quantity listed as "X 1" I have reported this in the Bug Reports and am wondering when CCP is going to put out the general warning to everyone exploiting this bug. See images below as examples (note the one that has no quantity listed but is advertised as a quantity of 30,000 and a price of 75,000,000 isk).
Image of Quantity greater than one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_gtone.gif
Image of Quantity of one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_one.gif
edited for grammar
Bless you for railing away into the wind about something that's not right.
News flash for you: 80% of the world (or more) has no or low character. Character is not defined by your actions when eyes are upon you and consequences are in effect, but by your actions when there are no consequences. Folks here are flaming you primarily because they have low character (but still a conscience) and want to rationalize it away. Making honest folks like you and me more disgusted over time. The dev team is well aware of this issue by now and apparently doesn't care. So if you want to have an effect, raise awareness in every local of every system you go through so folks now know about the issue. I've been mentioning it every time I see discussions about contracts in local. Get proactive if you want to do something about it because they devs apparently won't.
---------
Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE. |
Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2006.12.17 18:06:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Decarus
There's a saying whic goes: "You can't con an honest man".
It may be old, but that doesn't make it anything like true.
Further, this isn't a con, this is just lying and cheating people. Honest people get lied to and cheated all the time. That's why IRL we have cops, courts, contract law, the BBB, the SEC, etc.
If it makes you feel any better, after they fix this issue people will still get lied to, cheated and scammed in Eve, but it will take some actual trickery and cunning on the scammer's part in order to make off with your enormous bales of your hard-earned ISK. (A potential which, as it happens, I love about this game.)
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Atius Tirawa
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Posted - 2006.12.17 19:39:00 -
[46]
My desires for the contracts page:
1) Take away all that graphic crap on the left with the piece of paper - replace it with a single letter (T = trade, A = Acution etc.)
2) allow for people to make the fonts smaller or larger and to list as many auctions per page as they wish - clicking to get to the next page is awful. Make it more 'excel' like escrow was.
3) start looking for repeat scammers and remove them - I don't mind scammers, but I am tired of dealing with their sell orders when I can only view 10 or so contracts per page and wait for the next page to come up.
In summary: remove useless graphics, make it more excell like, remove repeat scammers - or - make the UI better so we can still get a good picture of the market even with the scammers out there.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.17 22:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Chronz
I do not see how this is a bug in anyway shape or form- by default if there is no "x = quantity" then that CLEARY INDICATES THERES NO QUANTITY-
I agree that only stupid ppl get scammed.
Huh? Perhaps you should consult a dictionary... Definition 2 should be of partilcular interest to you.
no ûadjective
1. not any: no money.
2. not at all; far from being: He is no genius.
Reference: www.dictionary.com
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:32:00 -
[48]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
The dev team is well aware of this issue by now and apparently doesn't care. So if you want to have an effect, raise awareness in every local of every system you go through so folks now know about the issue. I've been mentioning it every time I see discussions about contracts in local. Get proactive if you want to do something about it because they devs apparently won't.
So far I've been limiting it to encouraging people who come to the Help Channel wanting to know what happened, to file an exploit petition ... I do it everytime I see one of these contracts and have a free "exploit" petition slot open :) I might try some other approaches as well.... Thanks for the suggestion. CCP should still fix this.
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Vandamsel
Gallente
Dead Eagle
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
First thing...Miss LadyDragon is a known escrow scammmer.
Second thing, if one does not look at what he is buying, then fine...he deserves it.
Third why are you buying minerals? Cheaper to mine them your self.
you took the words right out of my mouth 
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.19 18:10:00 -
[50]
Perhaps they should have stayed there. Anyone else thinking those opposed to this are scammers?
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DHU InMe
Gallente
JUSTICE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.19 18:59:00 -
[51]
Here my thread about the same problem
__
UI Overhaul
Eve Links
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread |
Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 04:27:00 -
[52]
If it's intended to show just the item if the quantity is 1 and the item + "X (insert quantity here)" if it's more than one...this isn't really an exploit or a bug.
If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it.
I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
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Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2006.12.20 05:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
If the contracts system allowed you to "check the box" then you might be onto something here, but (unlike the old escrow system) it doesn't.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.20 16:04:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
If it's intended to show just the item if the quantity is 1 and the item + "X (insert quantity here)" if it's more than one...this isn't really an exploit or a bug.
If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it.
I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
Another one of the "No quantity means One" crowd... I refer you to the definition of "no," a few posts above yours. Way to miss the point entirely!
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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.12.20 16:38:00 -
[55]
It shouldn't be changed.
I don't scam.
I have yet to be scammed.
The danger of it should remain though.
I don't play WoW for a reason. Quit trying to make EVE WoW safe.
The contract system needs some changes. It needs better filtering choices and the ability to look at and buy from bigger areas at once. It doesn't need to be made scam proof though.
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 17:11:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Vil''Hem Rekrap on 20/12/2006 17:13:28
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
If it's intended to show just the item if the quantity is 1 and the item + "X (insert quantity here)" if it's more than one...this isn't really an exploit or a bug.
If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it.
I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
Another one of the "No quantity means One" crowd... I refer you to the definition of "no," a few posts above yours. Way to miss the point entirely!
First, at no point did I say "no quantity means one", so I'm not sure how this idiocy applies to me (I'll get to that in point 2). I said if it shows JUST the item, it's 1...if it shows the item and "x= (quantity)", it's the quantity listed.
Secondly, going by the definition you posted, "no quantity means One" is legitimate and is exactly what the OP is arguing against. I'll spell that little phrase out since it seems to be you who is missing the point. "If there is no quantity listed next to the item in the contract that means there is only one of said item". So yes...by the definition you yourself posted (of which #1 would be more accurate since there is 'not any' quantity listed), the usage from the previous poster was correct.
Thirdly, there's no huge need to be pedantic, here. Some people who post are probably not going to be grammatical giants, but any person with reasonable intelligence can correlate what's meant based on context.
If you don't understand what I'm saying about the "no quantity" phrase being correct by this point, I'll just have to let it pass so we stop cluttering the thread with useless, off topic crap.
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Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 17:20:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
If the contracts system allowed you to "check the box" then you might be onto something here, but (unlike the old escrow system) it doesn't.
In this instance, there is, actually. Right click the contract, then select "view contract". At the bottom it'll show the offered item. If it's 1 of that item, it'll simply show the item name with the icon for it. If it's more than one, it'll show the item times however many it is. If it's several types of item it'll show a list with separate categories for the name, quantity, type, etc. A webifier, to me, means a webifier. A single item. It doesn't look plural. A webifier x 4, to me, looks like a webifier 4 times. Or...4 webifiers. I'd much rather devs waste their time making titan wrecks pink than waste time fixing something that isn't broken.
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Decarus
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 17:22:00 -
[58]
It really isn't that hard to get your head around,
<A picture of an item> := means this is the item you'll get.
<A picture of an item> * Y := means this is the item you'll get multiplied by Y
However,
<A picture of an item> * 1 := Horribly redundant, in my opinion of course. It's like saying 1 * 1 rather than just 1.
And I'm still sticking to: "Nobody is going to get scammed if they'd read over the contract. Especially not now that this scam has been exposed in a plethora of different threads here... UNLESS they're being hasty and not reading the contract on account of thinking they're making the deal of their lifetime on the expense of some silly sob, and don't want to miss the chance."
And stop calling this an exploit. Perfectly normal game mechanics, not being exploited in any way. This is either a scam (which the Devs are cool with people doing) or a bug.. and it can only be classified as a bug if the Devs are supposed to assume that the players dont understand basic math. The difference between a unit and a unit multiplied by a number is BASIC.
~Decarus,
DANGER! Highly corrosive chemical material. Contact may cause severe irritation, burns or poisoning. Keep away from children. |
Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 17:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Decarus
It really isn't that hard to get your head around,
The difference between a unit and a unit multiplied by a number is BASIC.
Apparently it's not to some people.  After reading this thread, though, I'm almost tempted to go make an alt myself.
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Nardon
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 17:48:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
If the contracts system allowed you to "check the box" then you might be onto something here, but (unlike the old escrow system) it doesn't.
In this instance, there is, actually. Right click the contract, then select "view contract". At the bottom it'll show the offered item. If it's 1 of that item, it'll simply show the item name with the icon for it. If it's more than one, it'll show the item times however many it is. If it's several types of item it'll show a list with separate categories for the name, quantity, type, etc. A webifier, to me, means a webifier. A single item. It doesn't look plural. A webifier x 4, to me, looks like a webifier 4 times. Or...4 webifiers. I'd much rather devs waste their time making titan wrecks pink than waste time fixing something that isn't broken.
I beg to disagree here. As you logically state there is a way to determine the quantity of the item in question by the "x #" identifier. Since this is omitted for a single item there is *no* way to tell how many items are included. Of course a viable assumption is there is one item there. But assumptions are what scammers work on. So if people get confused about the amount of items there are...well the scammer is successfull. And since the visual clues emphasize the given description people who are new to the system are prone to get confused and scammed.
Once they get used to it they won't fall for it. That doesn't make the point invalid however.
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Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.20 18:03:00 -
[61]
Quote:
If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it.
That would be a valid point if this game came with a frickin' instruction manual. The FAQ is woefully inadequate. The only way to familiarize yourself with the various systems in the game is to screw around with them.
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Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
69th sInfantry
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Posted - 2006.12.20 18:09:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Vil''Hem Rekrap on 20/12/2006 18:18:33
Originally by: Nardon
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
I know if someone offered me a box and said it was full of gold or something and all they wanted was $500 for it, I'd want to check the box rather than just taking their word for it (or assuming).
If the contracts system allowed you to "check the box" then you might be onto something here, but (unlike the old escrow system) it doesn't.
In this instance, there is, actually. Right click the contract, then select "view contract". At the bottom it'll show the offered item. If it's 1 of that item, it'll simply show the item name with the icon for it. If it's more than one, it'll show the item times however many it is. If it's several types of item it'll show a list with separate categories for the name, quantity, type, etc. A webifier, to me, means a webifier. A single item. It doesn't look plural. A webifier x 4, to me, looks like a webifier 4 times. Or...4 webifiers. I'd much rather devs waste their time making titan wrecks pink than waste time fixing something that isn't broken.
I beg to disagree here. As you logically state there is a way to determine the quantity of the item in question by the "x #" identifier. Since this is omitted for a single item there is *no* way to tell how many items are included. Of course a viable assumption is there is one item there. But assumptions are what scammers work on. So if people get confused about the amount of items there are...well the scammer is successfull. And since the visual clues emphasize the given description people who are new to the system are prone to get confused and scammed.
Once they get used to it they won't fall for it. That doesn't make the point invalid however.
IF the item showed up as plural regardless of the actual # I'd agree with this. However, they don't. To put this in RL terms, a car is just that. A single car. Car x 1 is redundant, and further, we're taught in 3rd grade maths that 1 x anything is understood. Car x 4 means car 4 times...or 4 cars. In game...it might display 'webifier' (for example). Once again, it's singular. To me, there's no mistaking that it's only one of that item. I know I'm not alone in that regard, but I seriously hope I'm not in the minority, since this really is pretty basic stuff.
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Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
69th sInfantry
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 18:22:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Montague Zooma
Quote:
If a player doesn't familiarize him/herself with a particular feature in the game, they shouldn't be screwing around with it.
That would be a valid point if this game came with a frickin' instruction manual. The FAQ is woefully inadequate. The only way to familiarize yourself with the various systems in the game is to screw around with them.
Yeah...ya got me there. The FAQs and non-player provided guides do tend to suck a bit (and by suck a bit I really mean I've seen better things come out of a poorly trained monkey's ass). All I can say to that is screw carefully and use condom sense.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 18:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Decarus
And I'm still sticking to: "Nobody is going to get scammed if they'd read over the contract.
Show me exactly where a contract to sell a single item says that it's a quantity of one. No one who says this has yet been able to. And if the answer is "No quantity listed means one," that's not an answer.
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Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2006.12.20 18:39:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
IF the item showed up as plural regardless of the actual # I'd agree with this. However, they don't. To put this in RL terms, a car is just that. A single car. Car x 1 is redundant
You're misrepresenting the pluralization issue here. One car = car, two of them = cars so, as you said, "car x 1" is redundant. However! One unit of Tritanium = Tritanium, two million units of tritanium is still just Tritanium, so "Tritanium x 1" is actually very informative. Combine this with the fact that there is nothing to inform the uninitiated that the description given on the contract information display is, in fact, entered by the scammer player who created it, and is emphatically not a generated description of the offered item(s) and you have the prefect recipe for scamming players new to the system and it is thus for no good reason whatsoever.
Adding "x1" is not a problem for the coders and is not going to cost you money (unless you're a scammer). If this little oversight had not happened, do you actually think anyone would be able to make a reasonable argument to implement it? What does that tell you?
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Rufless
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 18:46:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Rufless on 20/12/2006 18:47:22
I'm a new player but I wouldn't want to call myself too stupid. However, looking at the second picture, I can only see the quantity of the good listed once on that page.
Logic would tell me that the three key pieces of information that are needed are:
1) The type of good
2) The price of the good
3) The quantity of the good
From where I am standing all three pieces of information are there:
Megacyte is mentioned twice, the price is mentioned once and the quantity is mentioned once.
It is unfortunate that it says 30,000 units when it is only 1 unit.
Personally if scammers can pull off confidence tricks I think that is pretty cool. But I think all three pieces of information should be clearly displayed on that page. And quantity is one of the three most important bits of information about the trade after all.
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Taince Vohen
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.12.20 18:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Decarus
And I'm still sticking to: "Nobody is going to get scammed if they'd read over the contract.
Show me exactly where a contract to sell a single item says that it's a quantity of one. No one who says this has yet been able to. And if the answer is "No quantity listed means one," that's not an answer.
When you place a bid you get a confirmation window, exactly like you used to do in escrow which EXPLICITLY tells you what you are about to buy/bid for.
Linkage
So, the scammer gets his chance to scam you, by putting up a deal that looks good, but you get the chance to back out if you look at the detail.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 18:56:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Taince Vohen
Show me exactly where a contract to sell a single item says that it's a quantity of one. No one who says this has yet been able to. And if the answer is "No quantity listed means one," that's not an answer.
When you place a bid you get a confirmation window, exactly like you used to do in escrow which EXPLICITLY tells you what you are about to buy/bid for.
Yes you do, but like I said, no one can show me on the contract where it says Quantity of one. So if they bother to tell you in the confirmation window, why not do the same on the contract?
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Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
69th sInfantry
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 18:59:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Originally by: Vil'Hem Rekrap
IF the item showed up as plural regardless of the actual # I'd agree with this. However, they don't. To put this in RL terms, a car is just that. A single car. Car x 1 is redundant
You're misrepresenting the pluralization issue here. One car = car, two of them = cars so, as you said, "car x 1" is redundant. However! One unit of Tritanium = Tritanium, two million units of tritanium is still just Tritanium, so "Tritanium x 1" is actually very informative. Combine this with the fact that there is nothing to inform the uninitiated that the description given on the contract information display is, in fact, entered by the scammer player who created it, and is emphatically not a generated description of the offered item(s) and you have the prefect recipe for scamming players new to the system and it is thus for no good reason whatsoever.
Adding "x1" is not a problem for the coders and is not going to cost you money (unless you're a scammer). If this little oversight had not happened, do you actually think anyone would be able to make a reasonable argument to implement it? What does that tell you?
Ahh...good point with the tritanium example. Looks like we're narrowing down the options, here.
1. Scammers continue to prey on those looking for a quick buck that aren't familiar enough with the contract system.
2. Scammers, in the spirit of xmas or whatever repent their wicked ways and no longer scam people.
3. No one complains about scams in the future so we can brush little incidents like this under the carpet and act like they don't happen (we're a civilized set of empires, now, remember?)
4. Players are educated about contract scams in the tutorial that they're strongly urged to complete. I've not done the new one, so I wouldn't know if it's already there or not.
5. A x 1 is implemented for those that don't realize not having a quantity next to the item means there's only one of that item.
There are more, but my coffee is done and I can't count past five using the hand that's not holding the coffee mug by itself. 
Good catch with the interchangeable plural/singular issue.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 19:01:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 20/12/2006 19:03:22
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 20/12/2006 19:02:16
Church Lady Voice: Nevermind
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Taince Vohen
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.12.20 19:07:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Yes you do, but like I said, no one can show me on the contract where it says Quantity of one. So if they bother to tell you in the confirmation window, why not do the same on the contract?
Simple, currently it is possible to scam, to my knowledge the devs have never said that they want to take this away. If the contract description said Zydrine * 10000 and the icon showed zydrine * 1 then scams would be impossible. Anyway, the confirmation box is still part of the contract, it is telling you precisely what you are about to do and asks you "Are you sure you want to do this?"
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Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
69th sInfantry
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 19:08:00 -
[72]
Oh.
So they do tell you if it's actually just one item for anyone actually taking the time to read.
I'm back to not seeing the issue again. It may not be in the spot you prefer, but it's still there. This is starting to get nonsensical. I don't see the point in *****ing about getting something there that's already there, and on that note, this thread no longer holds any interest. Quitcher*****in'.
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.20 19:11:00 -
[73]
I kind of find this funny...
When I used to order parts from the military supply system I had to give them a quantity... even if I only wanted 1... and yes they did question the time I transposed a few numbers and ordered a Main Battle Tank (M1 Abrams) instead of the power supply I really needed, but we did figure it out (Had to hand write the requests at the time, now it's all computer driven).
In this thread some have pointed out that, if for consistency only, the quantity needs to be displayed (not an exploit, at best a minor bug, mostly just an inconsistent behavior) have the best point...
Face it, some fool will still miss that the quantity is only 1 and buy that 1 unit of Trit for 1.6 million ISK... Some Scammer will be laughing all the way to the bank with their 1.6 million ISK and looking for another unit of trit to sell... but now the "form" will be consistent.
Noob in training...
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 19:14:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 20/12/2006 19:14:48
Well Vil'Hem for a brief few minutes there you started to make sense... until the post just above this one, so I'll repost what I had removed previously since I thought you actually started to understand the whole point of this thread ....
Quote:
Oh.
So they do tell you if it's actually just one item for anyone actually taking the time to read.
I'm back to not seeing the issue again. It may not be in the spot you prefer, but it's still there. This is starting to get nonsensical. I don't see the point in *****ing about getting something there that's already there, and on that note, this thread no longer holds any interest. Quitcher*****in'.
Vil'Hem Rekrap after reading all of your replies in the thread, I'll have to assume you're a scammer and trying to keep this in game for your own selfish needs. I have nothing more to say in regard to anything you choose to post on this matter here.
Thanks for participating though.
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Vil'Hem Rekrap
Caldari
69th sInfantry
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 19:27:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 20/12/2006 19:14:48
Well Vil'Hem for a brief few minutes there you started to make sense... until the post just above this one, so I'll repost what I had removed previously since I thought you actually started to understand the whole point of this thread ....
Quote:
Oh.
So they do tell you if it's actually just one item for anyone actually taking the time to read.
I'm back to not seeing the issue again. It may not be in the spot you prefer, but it's still there. This is starting to get nonsensical. I don't see the point in *****ing about getting something there that's already there, and on that note, this thread no longer holds any interest. Quitcher*****in'.
Vil'Hem Rekrap after reading all of your replies in the thread, I'll have to assume you're a scammer and trying to keep this in game for your own selfish needs. I have nothing more to say in regard to anything you choose to post on this matter here.
Thanks for participating though.
You know what they say about assuming. :) It leads to being scammed in contracts (and looking like an ass).
Oh...and as was just posted, it DOES show that the quantity is 1 just before you complete the transaction. You're not the only one to make assumptions, though, and that 'yes' probably gets clicked without the text being read more often than not.
No, I'm not a scammer...I honestly didn't think it'd be that lucrative at first. After reading this thread, though, I'm starting to wonder. People who assume only make it easy for them.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.20 19:33:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Adding "x1" is not a problem for the coders and is not going to cost you money (unless you're a scammer). If this little oversight had not happened, do you actually think anyone would be able to make a reasonable argument to implement it? What does that tell you?
Good point!
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Decarus
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.21 00:12:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Decarus on 21/12/2006 00:14:12
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Taince Vohen
Show me exactly where a contract to sell a single item says that it's a quantity of one. No one who says this has yet been able to. And if the answer is "No quantity listed means one," that's not an answer.
When you place a bid you get a confirmation window, exactly like you used to do in escrow which EXPLICITLY tells you what you are about to buy/bid for.
Yes you do, but like I said, no one can show me on the contract where it says Quantity of one. So if they bother to tell you in the confirmation window, why not do the same on the contract?
Seriously man, you're just very slow.
If you get a picture of something, just like when you get a picture of something in the game which is not packaged, you see a picture of that thing. That THING is a unit of a type of entity in the game. ONE UNIT of that type.When you see that picture OF A UNIT OF SOME TYPE OF STUFF IN THE GAME with no multiplication equation following it, you can safely assume THAT IT IS A UNIT rather than A UNIT TIME SOME ARBITRARY NUMBER THE SUBJECT OF SAID CONTRACT WANT YOU TO BELIEVE.
It's really just a choice of preference. Would you say "I got one banana" or "I got one times one banana".
~Decarus,
DANGER! Highly corrosive chemical material. Contact may cause severe irritation, burns or poisoning. Keep away from children. |
Bill Shankly
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2006.12.21 00:39:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Those familiar with the trade system wont be had...
just like.. omg... real life.
Let's follow this to it's logical conclussion.... People who are caught scamming should be punished just like.. omg... real life.
aye because after all IRL i can just warp to you and pod you.
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Profhet
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
|
Posted - 2006.12.21 02:44:00 -
[79]
the thing about alot of these scams, is if we were face to face, and I looked at the contract, it would be pretty obvious that it is not right.
The contract interface is a little counter intuitive and not exactly straightforward.
I appreciate the flavor that scamming adds to Eve, but should I lose 900 million ISK because of interface issues or should I lose it because you outsmarted me in some clever way. I vote for the latter.
____________________________
FEED ON THE DYING |
Phalyssa Truixim
Caldari
Einherjar Rising
|
Posted - 2006.12.21 05:17:00 -
[80]
This is a very valid suggestion. It drives me nuts how people think that using the **** poor UI in this game to rip people off is something that shouldn't be changed. The only people I could think of that would be the against this are people exploiting it. Having a crappy UI doesn't make Eve a game for more intelligent people.
Quite frankly, the user shouldn't even be given an option to enter a description. The description should be generated automatically and be of the form (or something like) Item: xxxx Quantity: xxxx Price: xxxx
The people who got scammed aren't stupid. They are victims of poor programming. The fix is simple and hope it will be implemented soon.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.21 08:41:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Decarus
It's really just a choice of preference. Would you say "I got one banana" or "I got one times one banana".
Me slow? Cute :) The sign of one losing an arguement -- call the other person names :)
Anyway -- Let's correct your example here so it's in line with the way the current contract system displays it.
Would you say "I got banana" (the way it is now) or "I got one banana" (the way it should be).
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.21 09:01:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 21/12/2006 09:03:04
Decarus and all you other "No Qty means One" crowd, Decarus' rant actually got me to thinking, and look what I found.... Apparently the devs deemed it necessary to help clarify what a Blueprint was going to produce... with an actual quantity. Go on, take a look :)
http://www.equo.org/eve/images/bpoexample.gif
You guys gonna start your own thread to get that quantity of one removed from BP's since it's unnecessary, and makes it look less neat, and whatever else you guys have claimed a "x1" would add to the contract? Link the thread here please would you?
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Valerie Ganor
Minmatar
Defile.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 09:17:00 -
[83]
i foundeth the secrat forah post!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Win the crowd... |
Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.21 09:46:00 -
[84]
There are only 2 possible explanations for why "x 1" doesn't appear in contracts:
1) An oversight. If that's the case it should be fixed, no question.
2) Deliberate omission by devs to facilitate scamming.
This is EVE remember? The devs like piracy, scams, corp theft, betrayal and a whole range of other activities that in most MMORPGs would be classed as griefing. Personally I think it's stupid to omit the "x 1" but it wouldn't surprise me if the devs had decided to do it on purpose.
Without an offical response we have no idea which of the above options is the truth so there's not much point getting worked up about it is there?
Originally by: Victor Valka
What the skull-chick said.
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Decarus
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.21 10:36:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Decarus
It's really just a choice of preference. Would you say "I got one banana" or "I got one times one banana".
Me slow? Cute :) The sign of one losing an arguement -- call the other person names :)
Anyway -- Let's correct your example here so it's in line with the way the current contract system displays it.
Would you say "I got banana" (the way it is now) or "I got one banana" (the way it should be).
True I shouldn't have called you names, it takes the focus away from my argument and you're not really slow, you just have a weird opinion and you're sticking to it (ofcourse the opinion is only weird in my opinion.. damn opinions). I extend my apology.
Anywhos, I dont think you're listening to what the crowd that someone decided to falsely label "nothing means one crowd"" or something similar. You see we are not saying that nothing = one. We are saying that the picture, like all pictures of items in EVE, stands for 'one unit'. I'll use smilies to demonstrate.
1.  := This equals one smilie ()
2. * 10 := This equals ten smilies ()
3. * 0 := This equals no smilies
4. * 1 := This also equals one smilie () but the 'times one' part of the equation is redundant as to (see number 1)
First by observing #1 and #3 note the difference between 'one' and 'nothing'. This should silence the people who keep saying we're stating that one is nothing.
Secondly observer #1 and #2 to see the difference between one UNIT of Megacyte and one unit of Megacyte TIMES A BILLION. I find it very straight forward.
Thirdly observe #1 and #4 to understand why I dont want to see this happen. It's redundant and anyone who's ever studied math above grade school level will probably tell you that it's hence actualy wrong. 1 * 1 is not more accurate than just 1 (remember the picture of the smilie itself is still one smilie). 1 * 1 is an uneccessarily complicated (its not complicated, but still uneccessary) way of saying 1.
So it really is not a matter of saying "I got banana" and "I got one banana" but more a case of wanting to say "I got one banana" or "I got one times one banana".
~Decarus,
DANGER! Highly corrosive chemical material. Contact may cause severe irritation, burns or poisoning. Keep away from children. |
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