|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
107
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 09:18:40 -
[1] - Quote
Mir Jana wrote:today I logged in at 14793 online.....
One day last month I logged on there was just 1 player online, so EVE was dead.
Am I playing this doom and gloom end of the world stuff right? |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
109
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 10:04:34 -
[2] - Quote
Hipqo wrote:Avvy wrote:Mir Jana wrote:today I logged in at 14793 online.....
One day last month I logged on there was just 1 player online, so EVE was dead. Am I playing this doom and gloom end of the world stuff right? Edit: Yeah, there really was just 1 Provide proff or it didnt happen. In all my time playing EVE, ive ever only seen this in the few mins after DT. Theres ALWAYS more then 1 player online, always. Unless you are on SISI ofc, then its plausible.
I bolded and underlined the relevant bit, you answered your own query. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
116
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 21:54:43 -
[3] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:
The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.
Good quote. I think I'll link it every time you go on one of your 'force them out of high sec' rants. Mr Epeen Everyone else must ~adapt~ to the game. The game should ~adapt~ itself to me.
No, all players should adapt to the game.
Continually trying to adapt to the players is what generally ruins games over time. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 20:47:02 -
[4] - Quote
Koebmand wrote:Subs makes good games.
P2W does not - yes PLEX sucks, wish they would remove it from game.
PLEX is here to stay, too much of a money spinner.
But anyway more games are starting to do similar.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
123
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 22:36:09 -
[5] - Quote
Reiisha wrote: New players don't see anyone online and notice there's a lot of stuff you don't even need to be online for, and subsequently quit.
You made that up.
I doubt anyone quits for that reason.
Rookie Help is a great help channel for new players. Can learn quite a bit in that channel.
Pity the help channel once you lose the Rookie Help (after 30 days) isn't as good.
The Help channel seems to be a cross between a help channel and the forums.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 23:10:30 -
[6] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: As I said in the Plex Thread. Plex will skyrocket as more and more new players decide to quit before they sub, or people in general do not feel this game is worth the RL monies.
So you get a bunch of space rich vets using Plex to justify still having an active account they otherwise wouldn't pay for.
So your view pivots on the assumption that new players introduce a great deal of PLEX into the game, in conjunction with subbing. That may be true, but I dont see any remarkable reason for why new player PLEX purchases (a large part which was they didn't understand subbing, and instead bought a PLEX right off from CCP which they then convert to gametime, and which therefore never even entered the market) should have dropped. No recent changes effect noobs.
New players do buy PLEX not for subscriptions but to raise isk.
Players that have been around for awhile and have plenty of isk, convert isk into PLEX as an investment, after all what else can they invest their spare isk into. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 23:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zozoll Neblyn wrote: Yeah. I think gatecampers must be groups of friends who are really just hanging out talking on Vox for the most part, and the gate camp is just a thing on the side.
It's kind of like fishing in RL.
But some people really enjoy fishing.
They could be alts, you wouldn't really want to spend too much time just waiting if it was your main.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
129
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 08:37:22 -
[8] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:
ISK to AUR makes sense as a sink, as long as the AUR items remain off market.
Not really.
If you are going to keep shop items off of the market then you may as well get rid of Aurum altogether and use isk to buy those items, then they would be isk sinks.
The fact that Aurum was introduced suggests CCP wants those items tradable. So unless they change their minds then you will need to look elsewhere for isk sinks.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 09:51:23 -
[9] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote: The game is always said to be a sandbox made for players by players. That in itself says that options are the strenght.
Yeah, options/choices are what sandboxes are all about. If you were directed to play in a certain manner then it wouldn't be a sandbox (i.e. questlines in other games, which you have to complete to progress in the game).
Sandboxes allow a character to be able to train everything, not predefined rolls like priest, mage, warrior etc.
But a PvP sandbox differs from a PvE sandbox, in so much as, you can choose what you want to do in-game but you can't choose what someone else wants to do to you. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 10:09:12 -
[10] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Avvy, one of the first lines in my effortpost was about making clothing bound to the character and consumed like SKINs
Ok, I only read your responses in post #492 and answered the part I quoted.
I'll make a point of reading the rest. |
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 11:28:51 -
[11] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: I think clothing should be bound to a character like SKINs. I also think apparel and SKINs shouldn't have market item entries. They should exist in account management only. That is, if it comes from the NES.
The move could be messy because there are stockpiles of apparel and SKINs. NES items could be refunded for their AUR value to keep the transition clean.
If you make clothes and skins only useable by the player buying from the shop, then you would create a definite isk sink. But there would be no need to have Aurum as you could just use isk instead.
Seems to me Aurum was introduced as a means of buying items that did not exist in the game until you purchased them so that the items purchased could be traded on the in-game market. So if CCP went to the trouble of Aurum they do want those items tradable. If your are going to use Aurum then you need a way of converting isk to Aurum and Aurum to isk.
Rain6637 wrote: There's then the issue of AT and special event prizes that are coveted for their resale value. I will go back to my suggestion about shifting that paradigm to a general sale strategy. Instead of giving out limited edition vanity items and SKINs to a select few, offer those assets for real money to the general playerbase, and use the proceeds as prizes instead. Money has more appeal, to players outside EVE.
I don't see AT and special event prizes as being an issue, if they want to sell them they should be able to. You need incentives for players to want to do those events, otherwise why should they bother.
Rain6637 wrote: The NES and its items have the consistent trait of sabotaging their own values by existing on the in-game market. If they're affecting PLEX as well, perhaps it's time to do something about a system that harms the game with its life cycle.
Aurum provides a means to make shop items tradable. Without Aurum the only trading would be in the case of someone ending up with an item they didn't require and trying to sell it for 1 isk less than the shop, which would be the same as in the case of NPC sold skill books.
The items purchased from the shop will have a different value from those sold on the in-game market. That's quite normal the in-game price can be lower or higher than the shop price. Getting items as incentives to subscribing and those items also being available on the shop will lower the in-game value.
Rain6637 wrote: There are items without AUR values that would be impractical to have several copies on one account. Phancas, for example, and promotional SKINs. Those would need to be reabsorbed into the redeeming system and treated like GTCs (I suppose), and traded on the forums..
No, you don't want to be trading via the forums when it can be done on the in-game market.
Rain6637 wrote: Finally, remove the PLEX-> AUR conversion option since letting it stay leaves this hole in the **** wide open. Reverse it, even, allowing AUR to be redeemed for PLEX. Maybe even stop offering direct PLEX sales, straightening the flow of value to: Real Money -> AUR -> PLEX.
Aurum is a currency, PLEX is an in-game item, you can't reverse it.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 11:29:37 -
[12] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: The only route to obtaining ISK for real money would be PLEX, like it used to be.
No, because then you wouldn't be able to trade the items that you get from the shop.
Rain6637 wrote: //this sounds crazy now that I've said it. I am assuming that AUR is affecting PLEX prices, and that it is harmful to the game. If those assumptions are wrong, my suggestion is excessive if not invalid.
As more items are added to the shop the more useful Aurum is likely to be, so from that point of view it could effect the price, but I'd say it's more likely to just reinforce the idea that PLEX is a good investment. Because it can be converted to Aurum. Although buying Aurum from CCP you get a better rate.
PLEX are like houses in a way, historically the value keeps increasing and there's not really any sign of a slow down. It's the only really good investment in the game. If someone still has PLEX they purchased for 400k they will make a tidy profit and for those that bought early they can afford to risk it as even if it goes a bit pear shaped they still will probably not lose.
So people converting their spare isk into PLEX as an investment is what fuels the in-game price increases.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 11:55:09 -
[13] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:Tippia wrote:Malt Zedong wrote:There is no sandbox pve and pvp, sandbox is sandbox. Sure there is. The distinction you're actually making here is whether or not it is a multiplayer sandbox. Lets get semantic again. PvP is only possible when you have multiplayer. So there is no "pvp single player sandbox". The fact that you have a multiplayer sandbox will, whether holding pvp direct fight or not, promote the competition between players for the resources and space shared by the time run. So there is not "pve multiplayer sandbox", as the acts of the other players in a persistent universe will always influence yours, and even without fighting you, they can get resources first, or otherwise preventing you from getting it. That is the thing people in EVE have a hard time to understand. PVP has many forms, and it is not because I am not shooting you that I am not destroying you.
I wouldn't have gone the multiplayer route as PvE sandboxes can also be multiplayer.
PvP and PvE (multiplayer) are the same except for one thing, which is you can't choose what someone else wants to do with you.
So Malt, what would you call a PvP sandbox as I describe in the line above? |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 12:24:38 -
[14] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: So Plex and homes have absolutely nothing in common, other than they can both be bought with cash.
Guess it depends on the country and if the culture is buying or renting. Also would depend on how much the land is worth that comes with the house.
My house is worth 4 times what I paid for it. Doubt I would have made that anywhere else.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 12:35:05 -
[15] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote: There is no sandbox pve and pvp, sandbox is sandbox.
Better still just Google them.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 13:24:46 -
[16] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:Avvy wrote:Malt Zedong wrote: There is no sandbox pve and pvp, sandbox is sandbox.
Better still just Google them. When you google it, one of the results is this precise thread, along with a lot of people saying exact the same and exact the opposite of what is said here by anyone. Again, people have a hard time understanding that Democracy is not freedom, Learning is not Knowing, Educating is not Elucidating, and Order is not the opposite of Chaos.
If you look for the meaning of sandbox game, you get comments like, 'open-ended, nonlinear play', 'open world (though there can be some game dependant distinctions)'.
If you search for PvE sandbox game meaning you will not find anything, same goes for PvP.
People use PvP and PvE as a way to distinguish between a PvP style sandbox game (though they are talking about a game that contains combat PvP) and a PvE style sandbox game (a game that doesn't contain combat PvP). Because there exists other forms of PvP it wouldn't be easy to actually give a definitive definition to PvP and PvE sandboxes. Much easier to just leave it as game dependant distinctions.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 14:43:55 -
[17] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:You do not cause anyone a loss by buying or selling items over the market. Yes you can. ... No. You cannot make me lose a thing. I dare you, if you disagree then please make me lose my space ship. You are suffering from the illusion that competing on the market was some kind of PvP. You can however only ever modify your own market orders, but not those of others. It is all just in your head.
I just looked at Wikipedia due to your post as a refresher as it's been a long time.
According to them PvP is a conflict within a game between 2 or more players.
They also suggest that to compete is PvE.
So that kind of suggests that the old way of thinking that PvP is combat is still true. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 14:55:08 -
[18] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Whitehound wrote:And if you want to call it PvP instead, because somewhere did someone make a better profit then be my guest. It is just not my definition of it. Stay docked. Do you consider real world commodities markets to be PvE?
Do you consider them to be something you compete with or a conflict?
Remember gaming terms aren't always seen in the same way as things in RL. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 14:59:13 -
[19] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:
competitive pve.
You must be possibly the only one that uses that term. Do a search on Google and you'll find nothing. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 15:18:51 -
[20] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:No. Another player can simply not make you lose items in trading. Sure they can. There's half a subforum devoted to this subtle and funny art. And that's if we operate under the false assumption that all the market is is items. There's more to it than that, you knowGǪ or maybe you don't. Just because you're once again confused about how the game works and about what words mean does not change that this hasn't been possible in EVE since day 1. Indeed, the entire game is built around this being a possibility.
Are you referring to the margin-trading scam by any chance?
Edit: Ok, forget that, that scam just makes you buy stuff in the hope of selling it quickly for a profit. |
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 15:47:45 -
[21] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:"Player(s) versus player(s), or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants. This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer controlled opponents and/or players, which is correspondingly referred to as player versus environment (PvE). "
"PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other" In computer role-playing games, PvP is sometimes called player killing or PKing.
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player
FYP
You missed a bit of the quote, the bit I added bolded and underlined. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 15:52:16 -
[22] - Quote
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Whitehound wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:No.
For example: We are both running the 100m race.
There is absolutely zero PvE effect in this scenario. Yes, there is. The track you are running on, the finishing line you are crossing, the clock and the rules defining the victor are all part of the environment. If want to see it as fighting the other racer then be my guest, but you are not actually engaging in a physical fight even if you could, but rather the rules prevent you from doing so as it would disqualify you. The fight against the other runner is only in your head. He might however not even notice you, because he could be entirely focused on the track, his heartbeat and breathing just to achieve his best performance. Only if you were allowed to knock the other runner down, push him off the track or otherwise directly engage/assault him would it constitute a direct fight - a PvP - between you two. Boxing is PvP. Running a track is not. Even running alone against the clock is PvP; you're competing against yourself. Remove those rose-colored glasses you're wearing, friend. Everything in Eve is PvP.
So even PvE is PvP, that makes it simpler. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
132
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 16:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Yes, there is. The track you are running on, the finishing line you are crossing, the clock and the rules defining the victor are all part of the environment. GǪbut they're not the competition. Have you ever run 100m? Or a Marathon? Do the later and tell me you did not compete against the environment when you ran 42km and the road made your feet hurt and bleed. You actually have to get up from your computer and move your feet if you wanted to run. Say Hello to gravity for me when you try to get out of your chair.
I used to run, hardest was probably a half marathon.
You compete against the environment, your own limitations, time and other competitors. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
137
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 14:16:14 -
[24] - Quote
Well if a declining in numbers thread turns into a what is PvP and what is PvE thread, I guess people don't think there's anything wrong with the numbers.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
138
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 22:19:51 -
[25] - Quote
I think I know the reason why players leave.
Due to players arguing about what is PvP and what is PvE on the forums.
Well ok, my comment is tongue-in-cheek but at least it's on topic. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 08:32:05 -
[26] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I'm curious if rising PLEX prices will mean fewer casual sub-with-PLEX players and more casual sub-with-money players.
It's just supply and demand.
As soon as the demand drops so will the price. Although I doubt there will be a price crash as people see them as investments. It's more likely that players will just hold onto them if the price dips slightly preventing a price crash.
EVE's market is manipulated by the players to some degree.
I doubt EVE will lose many players just because of the PLEX price, it may lose a few that can't really afford to sub. It is more likely to lose alt accounts though but of course that will depend on how many are being run by someone and their personal circumstances. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 09:28:46 -
[27] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:... We can not know the instances when things occur ... Which is why to an observer it is random.
Something may appear random to someone but that doesn't mean it is.
Like someone else said if there was no light there would be no colour, I disagree with that. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 10:06:32 -
[28] - Quote
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:Avvy wrote:
Like someone else said if there was no light there would be no colour, I disagree with that. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
You might want to do some research on that topic before making such a nonsense statement.
Been afk making a drink, considering my comment you quoted here.
Ok, you're right but not much research needed, just had to remind myself what the definition of colour is. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 10:19:26 -
[29] - Quote
Whitehound wrote: The question over what the lottery was, since it is one of the most random things, was just a question. Still interesting to see how someone would describe the lottery as PvP.
I don't remember anyone before MMOs talking about PvE and PvP.
As far as I know they were terms specifically used within video gaming to distinguish between two main styles.
I really don't think it matters outside of video games. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
143
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 12:30:16 -
[30] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:The VC's wrote:This thread is embarrassing for us.
Please lock it. Freddie Mercury has spoken
I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about anymore as it has deviated so much.
I think a lock might be a good idea.
|
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
143
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 12:47:39 -
[31] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Imo this thread has been such a remarkable ramble through so many topics that I suggest it remains open for it to run its course till it drops off the list on its own eventual lack of merit.
Sometimes threads with many overlapping topics involved can lead to wider discussion on interconnected stuff, that would not take place in other threads being as focused on specific ones at the exception of others.
Lets just try to keep it polite, at the least.
I see what you are getting at, but anything constructive is likely to be overlooked/lost in the long run.
Plus there's this:
'27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.' |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
161
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 08:20:42 -
[32] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:WOW is also a PvP game then. Those are some hardcore PvPers over there. In fact, that means that pretty much every MMO is a PvP game, since there's no MMO where your activities have no effect on other players.
This is the problem of trying to desperately stretch a definition to fit every circumstance. We all know that everything impacts other player in one way r another, but that doesn't mean it stops being PvE content. If it does, then perhaps you want to tell CCP, since they had discussions on PvE at fanfest. If PvE doesn't exist, wtf were they talking about?
Amusingly this has absolutely no bearing on the conversation, since you understand fully what the guy's point was. It's just easier for you to be pedantic.
You don't seem to get out much.
WoW has PvE and PvP servers.
In addition to that all servers have access to battlegrounds and arenas, those that do arenas tend to consider that the better or at least most skilled PvP in WoW. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 09:45:57 -
[33] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:You don't seem to get out much.
WoW has PvE and PvP servers.
In addition to that all servers have access to battlegrounds and arenas, those that do arenas tend to consider that the better or at least most skilled PvP in WoW. Even the PvE servers are PvP under the definitions given here. Think about it. You mine a copper deposit, that's the same impact as mining veldspar in EvE. Noone else can mine the bit's of copper ore you miner. You sell copper ore on the market, that's exactly the same as selling velsdspar on the market. You kill a monster and get isk, that increase the amount of gold in the economy, no different from bounties in EVE. This is the problem with broad definitions, that they can cover almost anything.
In WoW's you can't mine the same node, there used to be a problem with bots, so they increased the amount of nodes and spawn rates. Although you used to mine a node 3 times and if someone else timed it right they could get part of the node but they changed it to just having to mine a node once.
In WoW a PvP server is non-consensual or though you actually consent by playing on that type of server . Same as EVE, the main difference though is WoW PvP servers have instances where non-consensual PvP can't take place.
WoW PvE servers are consensual.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 09:58:02 -
[34] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: But on either type of server, you impact other players whenever you do anything, thus under the same definition that is being used to claim that everything in EVE is PvP, everything in WoW is also PvP.
Everything in WoW is not.
You can run an instance on your own, which will have no effect on anyone else at that time.
The only time you will interact with anyone else with that activity is when you come to sell the stuff, but often that isn't even the case as the items gained are just sold to an NPC as trash items.
So often there is no interaction with anyone else. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 10:42:46 -
[35] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:Everything in WoW is not.
You can run an instance on your own, which will have no effect on anyone else at that time.
The only time you will interact with anyone else with that activity is when you come to sell the stuff, but often that isn't even the case as the items gained are just sold to an NPC as trash items.
So often there is no interaction with anyone else. Just like I can seal off a wormhole and nothing I do in there will have an impact at the time. But when I come out I'll have an impact on the rest of the playerbase as a result when I sell things I go there. Exactly the same as WoW. Even if you sell to an NPC, you are generating gold and thus the volume of gold increases in the game, inflating the economy.
They make gold for themselves increasing their buying power. But they're not in competition with anyone, even when they buy something from the market they just buy the lowest priced one, there is no competition buying from WoW's market, there are no buy orders. With WoW's market the competition is with the sellers. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 10:54:01 -
[36] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Lucas I do not understand where instancing happens in Eve. Please clarify your position, some examples would be good. Captain's Quarters? Sigh.
That's the only one I can think of, although I guess you can include the hanger view. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 11:04:33 -
[37] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:apparently you can only quote 5 times in a post
Yeah, which leaves you 2 options, reduce the amount of quotes or split the post into 2.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 11:20:35 -
[38] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:They make gold for themselves increasing their buying power. But they're not in competition with anyone, even when they buy something from the market they just buy the lowest priced one, there is no competition buying from WoW's market, there are no buy orders. With WoW's market the competition is with the sellers. So how is that any different from eve? I shoot a rat to get isk, then I go and buy something from the market. Yet that gets classed as PvP because I impact other players, while in WoW it's classed as PvE, even though you have the exact same impact. I'm not sure what the lowest priced item has to do with it, but in EVE you are actually forced to buy the lowest priced item when you buy from the market, so you can't even choose to buy from a specific order.
I wouldn't say buying the lowest item is PvP I wouldn't even call it PvE, but the EVE market in general is better than most. Plus I don't think I've seen any NPCs that I can sell to in EVE which means the economy is player run. There's a lot more competition in EVE's market than others I've seen.
Lucas Kell wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Lucas I do not understand where instancing happens in Eve. Please clarify your position, some examples would be good. Go to an agent and accept a mission. An instance of that mission area is created when you accept the mission. On a technical level, every grid you occupy in space is an instance with free movement between instances. This is why you can be 1km away from someone yet not see them if they are across the grid boundary.
WoW instances will only allow the person or group (if grouped together) to enter, nobody else can access it. That's what people are talking about when they're talking about instanced content. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
164
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 11:48:43 -
[39] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:*I wouldn't say buying the lowest item is PvP I wouldn't even call it PvE, but the EVE market in general is better than most. Plus I don't think I've seen any NPCs that I can sell to in EVE which means the economy is player run. There's a lot more competition in EVE's market than others I've seen. Player markets are PvP, no matter what item you buy. And EVE has skill books, blueprints, etc, all sold by NPC as well as a wide variety of trade good both bought and sold by NPCs. Look at skillbooks for example, any order with a time remaining of more than 90 days (usually 300 or so) is an NPC order.
Player markets are PvP that doesn't mean every activity is.
So where do I go to find the NPC where I can sell some T2 ship fittings?
I know there are some NPCs that sell a few specific goods, but they are specific goods for a specific purpose.
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:WoW instances will only allow the person or group (if grouped together) to enter, nobody else can access it. That's what people are talking about when they're talking about instanced content. Irrelevant. Whether or not instance content allows freedom of movement doesn't change that it's duplicate content generated on demand for a player. And like I said above, it doesn't mean that the results of that instance don't have an impact of other players.
It's not irrelevant at all, you're just trying to be pedantic. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
166
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 11:58:04 -
[40] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:why is this thread of steaming dog shite not locked?
I think it's left open to try to keep other treads clean.
Edit:
Might be what Anzie said as well |
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
166
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 12:14:05 -
[41] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:that pvp/pve thing again...
Yeah, I got suckered into the PvP/PvE debate again, but it seemed to start off so innocently. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 09:29:41 -
[42] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Markus Reese wrote:
Said it on last page but in case missed:
I am saying go the exact opposite route. .
The end result is the same. The moment you abandon the vets your game dies. The players who play for 3-6 months and then move on will continue to play for 3-6 months then move on to whatever the new thing is.
All well and good, but there's a reason those players move on and don't become veterans. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
184
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:07:19 -
[43] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:EvE is a very slow game.
Everything about society is going faster.
While I like this game because of it's slow pace, others dislike it for that very reason.
EvE seems to be more of a social experience with a game attached to it than a game first.
You log into eve, remain docked, be on voice comms, and you alt tab and play league of legends or watch Netflix until "something" happens.
Sadly, most people no longer have the patience to sit around and wait, which seems to be largely what EvE is. 99% waiting for that really amazing 1%.
99% wasting time, just on the hope that you will get 1% that is really amazing, doesn't seem like a really good game design to me.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
184
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:52:20 -
[44] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Avvy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:EvE is a very slow game.
Everything about society is going faster.
While I like this game because of it's slow pace, others dislike it for that very reason.
EvE seems to be more of a social experience with a game attached to it than a game first.
You log into eve, remain docked, be on voice comms, and you alt tab and play league of legends or watch Netflix until "something" happens.
Sadly, most people no longer have the patience to sit around and wait, which seems to be largely what EvE is. 99% waiting for that really amazing 1%. 99% wasting time, just on the hope that you will get 1% that is really amazing, doesn't seem like a really good game design to me. Seems like life to me. Of course what you call wasting time I call preparation.
Except it's not real life.
Preparation, this must be one of the few games that people do other activities, like watching Netflix or read a book whilst playing (logged on). |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
187
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 01:35:39 -
[45] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: I disagree extremely strongly with everything in this (except perhaps logging in for social activity, which really isnt an argument against EVE as you falsely present it, but rather, again, a strength of EVE, that vets actually do that. If you can get people to want to log in just so they can chat with each other, that is a huge achievement for a game.).
That's not a great achievement for a game, it's a sign that those players are bored with the game and just login to chat with those that they have made friends with over the years. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
193
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 19:30:05 -
[46] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: The 4th played for a while longer than the 1st 2, but he complained the entire time. He didn't like how when you blew up you lost your stuff. Couldn't stand how the skill system was time based because "skills should increase by me using them". There was simply nothing EVE could have don't to keep him without a major gameplay overhaul, even then I doubt he would have stayed.
The time based skill system favours casual players as they're less likely to get bored with it. As well as those playing skill queue online where they play something else.
For players that spend a lot of time playing their chosen game, it doesn't really work that well as you can't speed up the process through game play. There's no real sense of progression as it's all stuck behind time gated barriers. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
195
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 13:02:25 -
[47] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Klas Kanjus wrote:37k players on yesterday. 30k on today during middle afternoon US on a Monday.
Yup. EvE's dead can't you tell. On the last day of a crazy event where people were making billions off silly implants. Get back to me next week.
These discussions don't really prove much.
With the introduction of skill queues longer than 24 hours, players don't need to log in so frequently. Although of course that doesn't effect older characters where the skill times are so long anyway.
I myself log in usually a couple of times a week, normally just to see what point the skill queue is at and to organise the next book to be added to my skills.
It's active accounts that count. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
195
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 13:16:24 -
[48] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Avvy wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Klas Kanjus wrote:37k players on yesterday. 30k on today during middle afternoon US on a Monday.
Yup. EvE's dead can't you tell. On the last day of a crazy event where people were making billions off silly implants. Get back to me next week. These discussions don't really prove much. With the introduction of skill queues longer than 24 hours, players don't need to log in so frequently. Although of course that doesn't effect older characters where the skill times are so long anyway. I myself log in usually a couple of times a week, normally just to see what point the skill queue is at and to organise the next book to be added to my skills. It's active accounts that count. so you dont login to play the game?
Presently no I don't. The most I do is fly to a station to pick up a book, in fact did that the other day, 2 stations 2 books (small railgun spec and small blaster spec).
GW2 is my main game at the moment but as my characters are all maxed out there, a lot of it is just repetition so eventually I'll start to get bored with it. So this may become the main one at that time or when I think this character is ready.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
225
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 05:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
I don't know if it's a trend or not but definitely the corp. I'm in is down on numbers.
Only about 95 recently. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
225
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 19:21:53 -
[50] - Quote
Prof Anarchia wrote: It has to do with lack of things to do, lack of focus, lack of point.
Sounds to me like you're analysing your gaming time.
If you do that in any MMO you will quickly realise none of them have any real point in relation to the mechanics. At least from the customers perspective.
All you need to know about leisure time is, do you enjoy doing it and are you spending too much time on it and neglecting other things.
Spending too much time on it can cause you to question your gaming time, which can then lead to you analysing your game time and possibly even a sense of guilt if you are neglecting anything all of which can effect you and your gaming. |
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
226
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 20:45:53 -
[51] - Quote
Prof Anarchia wrote:[]
True - but the same can be said of everything in life (universe expanding, sun melting, extinction of species) - philosophers have been grappling with "what is the point?" for centuries.
I've probably considered that question amongst others for around 20 years. I don't actually think there is one, we're here so might as well make the most of it.
I also used to be a natural analyst, analysis practically everything, one day I realised I had stopped doing it. So there's hope for you yet.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
231
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 01:02:43 -
[52] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP even admits it. The issue are PvE players who quit.
Well the PvE kind of sucks in this game compared to some other MMOs.
I've had it where I've been given 3 missions the same in a row, where's the fun in that?
Balancing standing is a pain in the butt if that's what someone wants to do.
If players build things and others just keep knocking them over eventually those building will stop as they won't see the point in building anymore.
The reality is PvE and PvP players don't mix very well. They never have done and probably never will do.
What this game has got going for it is it's spaceships and a sandbox.
I've been around since 2005 on and off and used to PvE, but in this game I've no more interest in PvE. So if there are others that feel the same, that could also explain some of it.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
250
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 13:23:38 -
[53] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Free2Play as subscription model is all about manipulation and literally MILKING people. It's not about providing a good game, it's about manipulating people into believing that their virtual character equals their actual character.
It's basically proof that companies think their customers are idiots.
It's about finding ways to give an incentive for customers to part with their money.
EvE is no different, PLEX and now skins (28 PLEX and free skins) . Main difference with EvE is it's still very much subscription based. It's just that EvE is an older game and as yet it doesn't have many things in the shop to entice people to part with their money. Except with PLEX, as it's the fastest way for a player to give themselves a isk boost. When you can buy sp for isk that should also boost PLEX sales.
So EvE isn't as different as you would like to believe.
Solecist Project wrote: These games aim at the weakest point in their players, which is their self esteem. (we had that one already, right?)
What do you get to buy in many games? Gear that makes you better than the rest. Want to skip time and be faster than others? Buy this SpeedUp item to finish this task faster. Want to seperate yourself from the rest? Buy this vanity item for 75$.
If you look at it ... all these games make money from poor people who have no self esteem.
Victims of modern marketing that does nothing else but constantly telling you that ...
... YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS ... ... UNLESS YOU BUY THIS PRODUCT THAT MAKES YOU ...
... A PART OF IT/BETTER/FEEL LIFE/HAVE FUN/BE SOMEONE.
It's always the same thing.
They won't make much money from poor people, poorer people tend to play F2P because that's all they can afford. They make money from those that have it, the richer people where money (the amounts spent in-game isn't really an issue to them).
Collections is one thing companies have latched onto, as some people like to collect things, like vanity pets for instance.
Armor skins/clothing that you can only get from the shop, to give customers a way to dress differently so they might have a chance to stand out from the crowd. Ship skins in this game is the equivalent of armor and character clothing is just the same as character clothing in this game.
Sometimes people just like to show off their wealth, buying exclusive products is the way they do it, no different to real life.
Solecist Project wrote: Free2Play is for dumb and/or sad people I feel sorry for.
EVE ONLINE isn't (yet) made for idiots.
More games have an F2P element these days as companies realise it's better than just having a limited trial period.
You could argue those that choose to spend large parts of their life in a virtual world rather than the real world are the sad ones, especially if they don't have a disability that restrict them in real life.
But people can choose what they want to do with their life so are they really sad in that case?
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
250
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 13:51:01 -
[54] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
The problem is that in the past, "drama queening" has sometimes worked. You and i know that in a sane world there is no forth option, but to people who want to change things (even though they don't consider what that change means), they think there is.
I have always found it perplexing that games exist that would cater perfectly to the kinds of people who play EVE and beg for it's focus to change (hell, i play Star Trek Online some myself, and Elite: Dangerous is a thing now). And yet they won't play them, It's like they'd rather be miserable in EVE than happy elsewhere.
I always used to think from a game perspective players should always adapt to the game, not the game adapting to the players.
But a game is also someone's business and as a business it has to adapt to its players/customers if it intends to remain a healthy business. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
250
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 14:05:54 -
[55] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
The problem is that in the past, "drama queening" has sometimes worked. You and i know that in a sane world there is no forth option, but to people who want to change things (even though they don't consider what that change means), they think there is.
I have always found it perplexing that games exist that would cater perfectly to the kinds of people who play EVE and beg for it's focus to change (hell, i play Star Trek Online some myself, and Elite: Dangerous is a thing now). And yet they won't play them, It's like they'd rather be miserable in EVE than happy elsewhere.
I always used to think from a game perspective players should always adapt to the game, not the game adapting to the players. But a game is also someone's business and as a business it has to adapt to its players/customers if it intends to remain a healthy business. every business has a target audience, if you try and cater the game away from the target audience which it has been acustomed to for years then your business is going to die fast
Very true, but EvE tries to cater to more than one market. Question is which one is the most successful.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
250
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 14:11:18 -
[56] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
The problem is that in the past, "drama queening" has sometimes worked. You and i know that in a sane world there is no forth option, but to people who want to change things (even though they don't consider what that change means), they think there is.
I have always found it perplexing that games exist that would cater perfectly to the kinds of people who play EVE and beg for it's focus to change (hell, i play Star Trek Online some myself, and Elite: Dangerous is a thing now). And yet they won't play them, It's like they'd rather be miserable in EVE than happy elsewhere.
I always used to think from a game perspective players should always adapt to the game, not the game adapting to the players. But a game is also someone's business and as a business it has to adapt to its players/customers if it intends to remain a healthy business. You should ask Sony about that, with SWG.
Never played it but have heard about it.
That's because they didn't do their research properly.
Like a computer you put crap data in, you'll get crap data out.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
250
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 14:25:36 -
[57] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:they all need each other to survive so its not a question of which one is more successful, you could argue pvp is more successful as its what they use to market the game, "no great story started with an SOE agent" sorta thing
That's my feeling too, that the markets are fairly well split.
Which has left them an issue when trying to keep everyone happy.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
250
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 14:46:43 -
[58] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Avvy wrote:Lan Wang wrote:they all need each other to survive so its not a question of which one is more successful, you could argue pvp is more successful as its what they use to market the game, "no great story started with an SOE agent" sorta thing That's my feeling too, that the markets are fairly well split. Which has left them an issue when trying to keep everyone happy. Hey, that's a life experience moment! I've learned that the way to keep everyone happy is to stop worrying about if everyone is happy lol. If you do the best job you can, the people capable of happiness will be happy, while the people incapable of being happy with anything will continue griping about everything (as if their unhappiness has an external cause when in reality, they are just unhappy people to begin with).
Life experience has taught me that you can't make everyone happy.
So you have to settle for the majority.
PvE and PvP players, you will never make happy when they share the same universe because they require different things. So all you can do is your best, which is what CCP seems to be trying to do. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
250
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 15:11:14 -
[59] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Solecist Project wrote: What a waste of time...
Instead of talking here, we should take matters into our own hands. Sadly people don't work that way nowadays.
Hasn't logged in. What? Me? Hey, you do known I've been playing a lot, do you? :p No I mean... that one.
As my post is above this one, I guess you mean me.
Well it's difficult to login when you don't have the game installed. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
251
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 16:38:27 -
[60] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Don't forget that PvPers do PvE, but PvErs don't do PvP.
Tbh this is all that's needed to realize which type of player has more value ... Bingo. PvPr claims that his e-peenis is bigger than yours; the evidence is that he says so. More news at 11. Further readingFrom the blog linked above: "(...) Can I go up to someone and, with a straight face, tell them that a game in which the average player in a 3-hour play session will most likely only kill NPCs and not kill another player or have another player kill him, is a PvP game?" -Nosy Gamer. As I said, what companies advertise (Empty roads! Exotic locations!) is very different than the average user experience (Traffic jams! Ugly suburbs!). Maybe CCP shoudl start developing EVE based on what players pay for (PvE) and do (PvE) rather than hope that more PvP is going to sort those decaying user counts. Do you have some sort of statistic which gives details of the people who "only" do pve, and people who pay a subscription to pve against those who pay subscriptions to pvp? who brings more money to ccp, the players who only do pve, never lose a ship and pay for gametime with plex bought for isk or the pvp'ers who pay subs, dont do pve and buy plex with rl cash to buy ships they lose everyday? I posted above CCP statistics on the demographic weight of player archetypes. There you can see how 50% of the players (people, not accounts or characters, but people who gives money to CCP) are focused on PvE and barely PvP or only PvP against their will. Also CCP statistics on the average session as reported by Nozy Gamer show how player kills are only a fraction of a kill in a average 3 hours session, which by contrast sees lots of NPC kills. Also there's the Fanfest 2015 stats on how much damage is inflicted, with player to NPC damage being (IIRC) 68x more damage than all player-on-player damage, structures from Sovereignty II included. We don't know who pays more money to CCP because CCP never shared that information, and it's difficult to estimate because it depends on who buys PLEX for real money, and CCP also never shared that information. We don't even know how many PLEXes they sell compared to subscriptions. And just to make things more complicated, there's AUR sells. My guess is that, with the average being 1.4 to 1.6 accounts per subscriber, PvE types will be in the lower fork and PvP types will be in the upper fork. Personally i've never had more than 3 accounts simultaneously and only have bought PLEX with real cash occasionally for buying expensive hulls like Faction ships and Marauders. I've also bought AUR once. Probably there's a strong correlation between player age and expense, so extending the average tenure of PvErs would also improve revenue per player. CCP gains nothing from having a large demographic with low revenue per player and a fast churn rate.
I don't think you'll ever know.
Each PLEX purchased from CCP is effectively a subscription, that can be used as a subscription or for other purposes.
Who buys the most PLEX PvPers or PvEers?
Who subscribes the most PvPers or PvEers?
We know a lot of PvPers also do PvE and genuine PvEers won't PvP (combat).
You could say that the game is originally designed for PvP. As such everyone PvP's, but we know that isn't actually the case.
So unless there is an indication of what your main focus is on the account I don't see how you can get any meaningful figures.
|
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
258
|
Posted - 2015.12.17 13:14:54 -
[61] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So Ho wrote:I have full confidence in the abilites of CCP as a company, number drops do not bother me. Ah, but the question is then, do you have full confidence in CCP to continue favouring EVE as their primary product or do you think there's a possibility that they'll divert more attention into Valkyrie as that product is now to be bundled with hardware and as such will likely achieve greater numbers. From my point of view there's changes that EVE needs to keep up with competition and just to keep it fresh, but the likelihood of seeing those changes any time soon is shrinking. They've highlighted issues with PvE they want to sort out but given a timescale of years on them. I also note that even their release names seem to be seeing less effort with the latest one being called December.
I don't have confidence in the whole MMO industry, what's been happening with MMOs for a while now, is a tendency for new content to push you into doing the content.
Eve oddly enough remains one of the better ones, as long as they don't try to follow the direction those other companies have taken. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
258
|
Posted - 2015.12.17 13:33:11 -
[62] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Avvy wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So Ho wrote:I have full confidence in the abilites of CCP as a company, number drops do not bother me. Ah, but the question is then, do you have full confidence in CCP to continue favouring EVE as their primary product or do you think there's a possibility that they'll divert more attention into Valkyrie as that product is now to be bundled with hardware and as such will likely achieve greater numbers. From my point of view there's changes that EVE needs to keep up with competition and just to keep it fresh, but the likelihood of seeing those changes any time soon is shrinking. They've highlighted issues with PvE they want to sort out but given a timescale of years on them. I also note that even their release names seem to be seeing less effort with the latest one being called December. I don't have confidence in the whole MMO industry, what's been happening with MMOs for a while now, is a tendency for new content to push you into doing the content. Eve oddly enough remains one of the better ones, as long as they don't try to follow the direction those other companies have taken. if its a better one why dont you play?
As you know I was playing GW2, but finally gave up with it thanks to their new expansion, it's so repetitive made worse by linking an integral part of the game to achievements. Achievements should never be linked in that way.
Playing ESO atm, although it passes the time, there's signs that I'm not really enjoying it that much. Tell-tale sign is I keep reinventing my character.
As for EvE, I think I spent a lot of time playing something else whilst training this character that I've become detached from it. I can fit t2 small turrets (rockets, light missile, lasers, hybrids, projectiles) as well as able to fly some t2 frigates (Minmatar and Caldari, assault frigates and interceptors) so there's no reason in that respect.
TBH, I'm starting to become detached from the whole gaming industry. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
258
|
Posted - 2015.12.17 15:41:52 -
[63] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:I don't have confidence in the whole MMO industry, what's been happening with MMOs for a while now, is a tendency for new content to push you into doing the content.
Eve oddly enough remains one of the better ones, as long as they don't try to follow the direction those other companies have taken. EVE can only survive so long running without properly refreshing itself though, and whatever they do, if they phase old content out and new content in it will always look like you're being pushed into new content. The alternative is to stagnate, and that's a one way trip to not existing.
It's not content that's always the issue, it's how the content has been woven into the rest of the game that tends to dictate to the player if they need to do it or not. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
265
|
Posted - 2015.12.30 05:17:03 -
[64] - Quote
That's nothing to be proud of.
I'm on page 1 of this thread too. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 04:31:20 -
[65] - Quote
Annemariela Antonela wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Your Troll-o-meter needs a serious adjustment. Even trolls can't successfully argue against verifiable facts. I must have a different definition of trolling than exists on this forum. A troll presents an argument in bad faith, knowing its fallacies and weaknesses, and when to switch tactics. Fundamentally, a troll says something it doesn't believe. By definition, then, a troll can't be reasoned with-- but if a good troll, will appear to be open to reasonable discourse for as long as possible, as a charade. The time you spend formulating reasonable arguments = teh lulz.
Below is what a troll is as far as these forums are concerned. No point arguing what the definition of a troll is as far as the forums are concerned, because CCP has done it for you.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 04:42:09 -
[66] - Quote
Annemariela Antonela wrote:Hey, when in Rome...
I see you know how to troll.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 03:24:27 -
[67] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
Except it's not disproved. All Rise was able to show is that of the people that do bother to fill in the reason for leaving, few list player problems (shock horror, most people leave it as default I'm betting...
Iirc there is no default answer, you have to choose. One option is you can choose to not give a reason.
Which is the option I chose a few months back when I cancelled mine.
I do know people do leave because of the having all their gear and what they build destroyed, so having to start all over again. What percentage I couldn't say.
There must be a lot of people that opt for not giving a reason, after all giving a reason just sounds like you're complaining.
There must also be some that give the first reason they click on, because if they're that fed-up with the game community I doubt they'll be back and probably don't care what they click.
But I can't really agree with you Lucas, because we don't have the actual figures, even CCPs figures won't be totally accurate. Although I know you're partly right but what percentage we don't know just as we don't know if it's really a major issue.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 11:38:49 -
[68] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Because average Joe certainly CAN get much better results at a gatecamp in ED.
If this is true, it means that Elite is a truly crappy game designed more to stoke egos than present a good , deep, challenging game play experience.
You could be describing EVE there, other than the fact you mentioned Elite.
So game camps in EVE are due to crappy game design, wouldn't argue with that.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 12:20:20 -
[69] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:EVE is a MMO, it's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be. It's not the difficulty driving people away.
To look at that you need to concentrate on the early stages of the game.
1) EVE doesn't really have good in-game communications.
a) Local is hardly used unless you're in systems like Jita with all the scamming going on.
b) NPC corp. chat is not used often so you tend to lose the sense that EVE is actually an MMO. Now this maybe in part to players giving bounties to anyone that says anything, but I think it's also in part to NPC corps having a lot of alts and there being too many different NPC corps.
c) No global or regional chat.
2) Not easy to find a good corp. to join, made more difficult by corps having so many joining restrictions.
3) There's little in the way of solo content available to new players, PvP isn't really viable very early on. The solo content in this game isn't as good as a lot of other MMOs.
4) Takes too long to train a character up, to a stage where you can actually do something you want to, instead of having to wait months. This is personal preference, but a lot won't see any benefit to waiting when they could be doing something else more fun.
I'm sure there are others.
The 2 main things that keep this game in a healthy kind of state for a niche game are:
a) It's a sandbox.
b) Its more unforgiving reputation. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 12:40:11 -
[70] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
good corps are easy to find, character training isnt really an issue unless you pay attention to other people more than your own, as a noob i was never confronted with any of these issues, i was in a corp at 900k sp, and i was flying in fleets around faction warfare and getting into plenty of fights and learning tons. as for waiting months to do what you want, thats the whole point of a game is to gradually work your way up, how fun would fallout 4 be if you were max level with all the guns and armour in 6 hours of gameplay?
The problems you are listing are personal issues and not issues with the game itself
I've been in player corps, maybe I was just unlucky.
But those are issues players face as a new player.
I was also talking about solo PvP specifically, sure you can PvP in a fleet as a newbie, but your role is very limited to start with.
The reason I was talking from a solo perspective, is because that will be the situation a lot of new players will be in, if they don't already know someone in the game. |
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
270
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 13:06:29 -
[71] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Lan Wang wrote:good corps are easy to find, character training isnt really an issue unless you pay attention to other people more than your own, as a noob i was never confronted with any of these issues, i was in a corp at 900k sp, and i was flying in fleets around faction warfare and getting into plenty of fights and learning tons. as for waiting months to do what you want, thats the whole point of a game is to gradually work your way up, how fun would fallout 4 be if you were max level with all the guns and armour in 6 hours of gameplay?
The problems you are listing are personal issues and not issues with the game itself Recommend some good corps. its not hard to do it yourself, everyone else who stays in this game has no issues finding a good corp that fit the needs of the what they want to do in the game. you are just being lazy asking for people to recommend a corp to you with no other information on what you actually do or want to do.
One thing quite a few corps do, is make their corps sound better than they actually are. Although you don't find out until you actually join.
It's one thing finding a corp, but it's another finding a good corp.
I've been in a corp. in this game, where there is more than 100 players listed, yet you only ever saw less than 10 of them online. Back in the days I used to spend about 12 - 16 hours each day playing EVE. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
270
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 13:36:02 -
[72] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: do some research, check killboards, monitor the activity for your timezone, ask questions, dont move stuff to the home system till you are sure activity is pretty good, take part in a fleet before moving to see how they are. you aint tied into a corp you are free to leave whenever you want
You're not tied into a corp., but if you keep changing corps looking for one that you find good. You may actually start to find it harder, thanks to your employment record. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
270
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 14:03:50 -
[73] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:[do some research, check killboards, monitor the activity for your timezone, ask questions, dont move stuff to the home system till you are sure activity is pretty good, take part in a fleet before moving to see how they are. you aint tied into a corp you are free to leave whenever you want
The example of the corp. I gave was the same time zone as myself. It's just they hadn't removed the character names of those that weren't playing any longer. Probably because it sounds better if they say they have over 100 players in corp. I guess their argument is, they're not kicking them from corp. as they may be back. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
270
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 14:14:53 -
[74] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:King Aires wrote:The only entitled way of thinking here is yours, in that you think it is your game and it should be played your way. You refuse to adapt or change therefore you ask others to leave so they can't influence development in a direction you don't improve. This is incredibly true. There are a number of frequent posters that display this "my way or the highway" attitude while having absolutely nothing to do with the development of the game. They get so mad that other people dare to have opinions. Just stand your ground and they usually get bored.
That's kind of normal really.
If someone likes something enough, they will have a tendency to try to protect it as it is.
Plus seeing what changes have done to some other MMOs, it just reinforces that reasoning. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
271
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 14:44:38 -
[75] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:That's kind of normal really.
If someone likes something enough, they will have a tendency to try to protect it as it is.
Plus seeing what changes have done to some other MMOs, it just reinforces that reasoning. True, but refusing to change is also pretty bad for MMOs. The thing is, we all have different opinions about what we want to keep and what we want to see changed. It's CCPs job to decide what they want to do based on their opinions and their views on ours. Some people can't handle that and refuse to even allow other people to have their opinion, berating and attacking them, telling them to leave whenever they post.
We all have different views and views will be challenged as a way or trying to give balance to the argument.
Some people are more rigid in their views and some more flexible, doesn't mean the rigid ones are being unreasonable, it just means they know what they want and what they don't. It's not even being selfish as it is their views they are expressing.
It is CCPs job to decide what changes are necessary, based on what they think and the feedback they get from their customers.
The problem I see is I don't think this game is good enough to break from its niche market and go more main stream. One of the things that keeps dragging players back to it is its tough reputation, so if that changes too much it might not be too good for this game. Something they need to be mindful of with changes.
Changes can be both good or bad, usually you find out after the change which they actually are. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
274
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 00:27:29 -
[76] - Quote
Vektrio wrote:I am a complete newb to EVE, sub'd a few weeks ago, and I just found this thread.
188 thread pages to discuss whether or not the game is dying, I don't know how to feel about that.
I wouldn't take much notice of it.
People have been saying EVE's has been dying for many years now. If they say it enough one day they may actually be right, at some point in the future.
Dramatic titles and subjects tend to gain a bigger audience. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 14:57:16 -
[77] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:Wow this thread rages on?
Next time someone complains their rant thread was shut down, I shall direct them here.
This one is special apparently
This thread is probably left open for people to blow off steam, they seem to leave one thread open for that purpose. It'll close eventually, then there will be another to take its place. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 15:34:54 -
[78] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:The title is misleading.
That maybe, but nobody is going to read 189 pages or even close to that.
But everyone will read the title. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 15:58:58 -
[79] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:The title is misleading. That maybe, but nobody is going to read 189 pages or even close to that. But everyone will read the title. Well I've been keeping up with it from the start, so, I'm one of those pathetic whelps that have read all 189 pages
Yeah well, it's different if you've been reading from when this thread started. Although you are doing well if you've read all the posts.
But I'm really talking about potential new players that visit the website to see what it's about.
Edit:
As the old saying goes, 'no smoke without fire'.
With that saying in mind what are they to think. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
276
|
Posted - 2016.01.15 16:29:43 -
[80] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Avvy wrote:Although, I don't think it's that wise to leave a thread with the kind of title that this thread has.
MMO players don't tend to head for games with dropping numbers, as they can be concerned that the time they invest into an MMO could be wasted. The problem isn't the thread title in that case though, it's the actual player numbers. While it may be stable for the moment it clearly has just been through one hell of a drop. Rather than trying to pretend that everything is fine and dandy, perhaps that should be addressed. Avvy wrote:As the old saying goes, 'no smoke without fire'.
With that saying in mind what are they to think. I imagine they will think that there was indeed a fire, and they would be correct to think so.
The title is an issue though, even if it was true.
A lot would already know the game is old that coupled with declining numbers, it sounds like the game is in its twilight years. Why would anyone want to start investing a lot of their time into an MMO if they think it's entered its twilight years?
The title true or not will not help the situation.
|
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
279
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 08:10:29 -
[81] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: Voice chat is what keeps these games alive.
Text chat is for anti-social people who want to limit their interaction.
The only reason I am playing EVE again this month is that my org leader wanted to play it while waiting on Star Citizen to release more features.
We use teamspeak mostly.
The problem with EVE no is that it lacks voice communication across a broad spectrum.
You do know that EVE has voice chat in pretty much every chat channel right, and in fleet, with a few settings that allow you to always hear the FC if you want. People just like to use Teamspeak anyway because if you DC from EVE you can still speak up on Teamspeak that you DC'ed, while if you use EVE Voice, you can't. Some of the pub communities used to always use EVE Voice for fleet comms, don't know what they currently do. EVE has voice chat, but no one seems to use it.
Because it's not as good apparently.
Iirc one of the things was you couldn't chat if you got dc'd. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
279
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 10:30:16 -
[82] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Mir Jana wrote:I was wondering about something...
January 2014 - average was 41k online June 2014 - average was 32k online December 2014 - average was 27k online May 2015 - average was 21k online August 2015 - average is 16k online
today I logged in at 14793 online.....
Today I logged in at 23062 online, at 10:15 EVE time. 23k online for the past month. EVE IS DYING!
I haven't logged on since before Xmas, but I'm still a customer and my character is still training. All thanks to the extended training queue we have these days. |
|
|
|