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Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2118
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Posted - 2015.08.26 15:40:57 -
[1] - Quote
Hi..I'm not the best at this "serious discussion" stuff on the IGS but...I'm willing to try..
Ladies and gentlemen, the Drifters have proven themselves as a serious threat not to be taken lightly, currently the fight in Khanid space is going horribly for the Kingdom as control over the constellation has not budged...Well..they managed to claim 5% of the constellation before losing it to the drifters as of this morning...
As a mercenary its rather hypocritical of me to ask for some kind of cease fire between factions, but this threat is obviously nothing we have ever faced before.
I ask if it would be possible if the four empires would be willing to stop tossing more and more resources at theses pointless war-zones against each other and perhaps have a temporary truce to deal with this devastating force before it gets out of hand..THEN we can go back to killing each other
If the drifters mange to take out the largest nation in the entire clusters...Whats to say the State might last on its own..or the Republic..Or even the Federation...Alone we can lethal sure..But as a team we can dominate this foe quickly
Years ago the empires combined forces in order to fight off Sansha's nation. Why can't we do that again here and now against a more pressing enemy that can very well threaten the entirety of the cluster more than the Nation ever could..
And i don't think i need to remind you of the Empress....How she was obliterated in a matter of seconds in the HQ of the same Amarr Navy thats suppose to be fighting back theses damn things, they are not mindless drones, they are adaptive and resourceful and have tech that is far superior to our own.
We don't have to be friends forever..Just a temporary truce to deal with this cancer that we can quickly remove before it becomes fatal.
I fought at Sarum prime during that rally...I lost people close to me that day, i witnessed their power firsthand and I'm willing to not fight in this war as a mercenary, but a soldier to stop this madness
Besides...i can't even be a mercenary if the Drifters wipe everyone out...
(.___________________________________________.)/
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Sinjin Mokk
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
614
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Posted - 2015.08.26 15:58:59 -
[2] - Quote
Having had a good, up-close tactical view of what we're facing, I think this is a subject worthy of discussion.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Markus Error
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2015.08.26 16:16:44 -
[3] - Quote
This does presume the Drifters simply haven't gotten to the other races yet... which is entirely reasonable.
Unfortunately, while the empires have made display of solidarity before in this manner - to wipe the floor with the original Sansha's Nation - they seem to be too busy fighting amongst themselves and arguing about things to agree on anything except the most trivial of matters.
No, I feel if anyone is going to actually fight the Drifters, it'll be the Amarr and any capsuleer who cares to throw their hat in that particular ring. I'm holding onto a faint hope the empires will clue the hell in, but seems they won't.
Hey.
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Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2122
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Posted - 2015.08.26 16:28:09 -
[4] - Quote
Markus Error wrote:This does presume the Drifters simply haven't gotten to the other races yet... which is entirely reasonable.
Unfortunately, while the empires have made display of solidarity before in this manner - to wipe the floor with the original Sansha's Nation - they seem to be too busy fighting amongst themselves and arguing about things to agree on anything except the most trivial of matters.
No, I feel if anyone is going to actually fight the Drifters, it'll be the Amarr and any capsuleer who cares to throw their hat in that particular ring. I'm holding onto a faint hope the empires will clue the hell in, but seems they won't.
i refuse to believe we can't just have one temporary truce..even if its just for a day..i know its possible...
Again we don't all have to have a long lasting truce...Just one so we can allocate resources on the same problem before it becomes a threat we cannot topple
Then we can go back to the fighting between ourselfs.Hell..i want that still! my job is to profit off that..As sicking as that sounds to some...But we risk to lose everything unless we work together...Currently we don't have the best odds..but there is nothing from stopping us in improving those odds..Yeah..maybe a fragile alliance is not the best thing..But it might be our only way to fight back the Drifters
My opinion....
(.___________________________________________.)/
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Nameira Vanis-Tor
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
253
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Posted - 2015.08.26 16:45:27 -
[5] - Quote
If the Amarr Empire wishes to survive the price for Tribal intervention should be as follows:
1) Independance for the Ammatar people's and territory from the Empire. If that tribe wishes to maintain an alliance with the Empire on their own terms then that is their rightful business.
2) Immediate emancipation of all Minmatar and their descendants.
3) An outlawing of enslavement of any member of a Minmatar Tribe. If they wish to spread their religion then let them use peaceful means only.
4) War reparations to be paid to each Tribe commensurate with the physical, emotional, mental, cultural and material damage done by the Empire to that Tribe. Diplomats and financial experts can figure out the fund involved and a long payback period would be tolerable.
5) The 24th IC to abandon sovereignty they hold in any traditional Minmatar Territory in the Metropolis/Heimatar regions. Also for the Empire to cease any further aggression in the warzone. In perpetuity.
6) The Empire will provide ships and equipment to the Tribes in order to assist against the Drifter Incursions. Each Tribe would also be paid to compensate for any Minmatar losses.
7) Following the next crowning of an Emperor/Empress each Royal House shall send its next Heir to the Republic as guests in order to provide surety for the agreed measures being met.
This is just a draft but tell me, does that sound reasonable for the aid of those The Empire has been trying to persecute and ahnilalate for centuries? |
Yockerbow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2015.08.26 16:56:05 -
[6] - Quote
The Empires came together to fight Sansha because there was very good reason to believe that he was dangerous to them all. He was an equal opportunity enslaver and expanded on all fronts.Also, they had the Jove on their side as well. Today, it isn't clear whether the Jove tacitly approve of the Drifters or if the Directorate has in fact collapsed.
The Drifters so far have only attacked Amarr forces; outside scattered reports of police skirmishes they seem to have restricted themselves to scouting the other regions. Not only that, so far they seem to completely disregard planetary infrastructure, orbital colonies, etc.
As long as they restrict their aggression to capsuleer and Amarr Navy forces, it's unlikely the other 3 empires will unite to face them. The Republic won't assist the Empire unless either a) the Empire abolishes slavery unconditionally, or b) the Drifters begin enslaving baseline humans. The Republic will also do everything possible to keep the Federation from providing assistance. The Caldari may or may not assist, but the power vacuum left by the death of the Empress will make that less likely - no business likes to deal with you when they know you'll soon be Under New Management.
Unless the situation greatly changes (new weapon developments to close the technology gap, Jove showing up and helping, Amarr meeting Matari demands), the Amarr Empire is likely on its own for the forseeable future. |
Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1485
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 17:21:55 -
[7] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:If the Amarr Empire wishes to survive the price for Tribal intervention should be as follows:
1) Independance for the Ammatar people's and territory from the Empire. If that tribe wishes to maintain an alliance with the Empire on their own terms then that is their rightful business.
2) Immediate emancipation of all Minmatar and their descendants.
3) An outlawing of enslavement of any member of a Minmatar Tribe. If they wish to spread their religion then let them use peaceful means only.
4) War reparations to be paid to each Tribe commensurate with the physical, emotional, mental, cultural and material damage done by the Empire to that Tribe. Diplomats and financial experts can figure out the fund involved and a long payback period would be tolerable.
5) The 24th IC to abandon sovereignty they hold in any traditional Minmatar Territory in the Metropolis/Heimatar regions. Also for the Empire to cease any further aggression in the warzone. In perpetuity.
6) The Empire will provide ships and equipment to the Tribes in order to assist against the Drifter Incursions. Each Tribe would also be paid to compensate for any Minmatar losses.
7) Following the next crowning of an Emperor/Empress each Royal House shall send its next Heir to the Republic as guests in order to provide surety for the agreed measures being met.
This is just a draft but tell me, does that sound reasonable for the aid of those The Empire has been trying to persecute and ahnilalate for centuries? No.
It doesn't.
Respectfully, pilot, we're likely fighting the Sleepers. If that's true, we're all aggressors, and the Drifters have cleverly picked the most easily-isolated first target.
They'll probably come after each of us in turn. If I were them, I'd go for the Gallente, next-- the Caldari will be asking questions similar to yours, and the Minmatar Republic will likely be busy trying to get to surviving formerly-enslaved Matari before the pirate factions do.
Then the State.
You'll burn last. With all your kin. And there'll be no one left to help you. |
Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1160
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 17:23:24 -
[8] - Quote
Yockerbow wrote:He was an equal opportunity enslaver and expanded on all fronts.
Handily ignoring the fact that the Amarr have always had Nation beat in both enslavement and aggressive and militaristic expansion. Also that the majority of the slaves that Nation had were legally purchased from the Amarrian Empire in exchange for currency and technology. But wahey, whatever to make your point I suppose.
As far as the main thread here, I doubt it. The Amarr either have to have something worth offering, which they don't seem to. Or the Drifters have to pose a direct threat to the other big three, which they don't currently. Sure they are a general threat, but not to the point where the others are worried enough to really do something about it.
The Drifters seem to have a real, strong vendetta against the former Empress and her actions. They also seem to react strongly against that which they perceive as aggression. To both ends, they eliminated the former Empress and have responded to the Amarrian Declaration of War by funneling forces in to Amarrian space. There has been nothing shown to the Federation, State, and Republic that it's in their best interests to intervene. And even far less in the interest of empires outside of the Big Four.
Until you can offer up a reason why others should pitch in beyond speculation of "Maybe the Drifters will come after you next!", the Empire stands alone.
Come along, Avio. Come away from the Amarrians. Let them burn. |
Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1485
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 17:34:11 -
[9] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Until you can offer up a reason why others should pitch in beyond speculation of "Maybe the Drifters will come after you next!", the Empire stands alone.
Come along, Avio. Come away from the Amarrians. Let them burn.
Sure, it's speculation, Evi, but not without basis. We've been seeing Sleeper-type facilities and devices associated with Drifter activity. This has actually been the case for a while, but the pattern's continuing enough to make me kind of doubt it's coincidence.
If it's the Sleepers we're fighting ... any empire that produces capsuleers is quite likely their enemy.
Also, respectfully, Evi ... you're my corpmate and therefore comrade and all, but you're in this to help empire capsuleers kill each other.
Right?
Is there a reason we should believe you have any empire's best interests at heart?
Don't you want to see us all burn? |
Deitra Vess
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
601
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 17:41:26 -
[10] - Quote
Avio, it seems unlikely I'm afraid. |
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Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1160
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Posted - 2015.08.26 17:47:31 -
[11] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Is there a reason we should believe you have any empire's best interests at heart?
Don't you want to see us all burn?
I despise the governments. I have sympathy for the civilians caught under them. I consider myself aligned to the interests of an entity that has been at war with the empires for eight decades now.
Humanity will survive the Drfters. But if there is a god I shall pray to him that the empires do not. |
Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
381
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Posted - 2015.08.26 17:56:31 -
[12] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:The price for Tribal intervention should be as follows:
1) Independance for the Ammatar people's and territory from the Empire. If that tribe wishes to maintain an alliance with the Empire on their own terms then that is their rightful business.
2) Immediate emancipation of all Minmatar and their descendants.
3) An outlawing of enslavement of any member of a Minmatar Tribe. If they wish to spread their religion then let them use peaceful means only.
4) War reparations to be paid to each Tribe commensurate with the physical, emotional, mental, cultural and material damage done by the Empire to that Tribe. Diplomats and financial experts can figure out the fund involved and a long payback period would be tolerable.
5) The 24th IC to abandon sovereignty they hold in any traditional Minmatar Territory in the Metropolis/Heimatar regions. Also for the Empire to cease any further aggression in the warzone. In perpetuity.
6) The Empire will provide ships and equipment to the Tribes in order to assist against the Drifter Incursions. Each Tribe would also be paid to compensate for any Minmatar losses.
7) Following the next crowning of an Emperor/Empress each Royal House shall send its next Heir to the Republic as guests in order to provide surety for the agreed measures being met.
This is a price peace could be bought at. The Republic would reciprocate on point five and point six should be removed entirely.
This could end in a decade a war that has lasted for a thousand years with no bloodshed. It also seems too good to be true. God willing the next emperor will see the wisdom in peace as Empress Jayml did
-áFear The Tribes
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Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:20:42 -
[13] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Is there a reason we should believe you have any empire's best interests at heart?
Don't you want to see us all burn? I despise the governments. I have sympathy for the civilians caught under them. I consider myself aligned to the interests of an entity that has been at war with the empires for eight decades now. Humanity will survive the Drfters. But if there is a god I shall pray to him that the empires do not.
Yeah. This.
Maybe we evolved past the need for "governments."
Someone mentioned the Jove? Notice how in the news when the Amarr Empress got aced, all the other "governments" sent words of support but there was no mention on the Jove. I think they got aced first.
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ValentinaDLM
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
785
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:23:26 -
[14] - Quote
Perhaps we should cut our losses on the Empire and look towards unity between the Caldari, Minmatar, and Gallente. Once that has happened then maybe the Empire would come along with peace. |
Skyweir Kinnison
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
44
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:26:52 -
[15] - Quote
Anything is possible.
However, there are some impediments.
1. Amarr has not formally asked for aid. Until they do, I am unwilling to 'invade' their space.
2. Amarr already has a declared ally in the Calder State. Why aren't they helping, since the mechanisms are already in place? It appears that they haven't been asked.
3. Looney demands such as those advanced by Ms Vanis-Tor making it very politically difficult for Amarrian leaders to issue request for aid, since without an Emperor, many of their people might suspect collusion and compromise.
Only if it becomes clear that Amarr is losing the battle, will any of the above have any traction.
The other empires would do well to prepare themselves to defend their territory, research the Drifters further, and stand ready to help if the call ever comes. It's widely claimed that we are all in danger, but with no evidence at all that this is the case.
We should not be complacent, but neither should we be precipitate.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
561
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 18:26:57 -
[16] - Quote
To be blunt, the Republic would have to request for us to assist the Amarr (getting that to happen is out of the hands of any capsuleer) before we do more then get a cup of coffee and watch the empire burn.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2205
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 18:34:02 -
[17] - Quote
Peace between the empires existed for over a century. And that peace would still be surviving until today had it not been for the insane actions of Shakor and his self-styled Elders.
Even after they attacked Amarr, Empress Jamyl took the brave step of releasing an unprecedented number of slaves. Many of us hoped that this peace overture would have some effect on the Minmatars. But did the Shakorites even consider making overtures of their own? They did not.
Is a truce possible?
We Amarrians are a peace-loving people, but unfortunately the Republic is run by a bunch of psychopaths who revel in death and destruction.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1315
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 18:37:09 -
[18] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Maybe we evolved past the need for "governments."
Sure. We kill one another for fun, sacrificing millions of baseliners a day across New Eden. We've clearly 'evolved' past the need for large organizations to control resources, protect the weakest members of society, and focus our collective efforts and will...
About as well as we've 'evolved' past the need for cellular respiration. |
Yockerbow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:41:21 -
[19] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Yockerbow wrote:He was an equal opportunity enslaver and expanded on all fronts. Handily ignoring the fact that the Amarr have always had Nation beat in both enslavement and aggressive and militaristic expansion. Also that the majority of the slaves that Nation had were legally purchased from the Amarrian Empire in exchange for currency and technology. But wahey, whatever to make your point I suppose.
Don't mistake my comments on Sansha for approval of the Amarr. I actually have a certain respect for Sansha and his stated goals, at least in the original incarnation of his Nation. I was simply trying to contrast the first war against the Nation with the current Drifter situation. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5465
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 18:47:10 -
[20] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Anything is possible.
2. Amarr already has a declared ally in the Caldari State. Why aren't they helping, since the mechanisms are already in place? It appears that they haven't been asked.
The Alliance between the State and Empire refers to the state of affairs between the Empire, Federation, Republic and The State. It did not give the Empress carte blanche to drag us into any war she felt like starting without consulting us first. Any decision by The State to get involved at this point would follow the steps below:
1. Formal request by the Empire 2. CEP weighs up the costs and benefits of involvement 3. Decision to get involved or not announced 4. Outcome
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
562
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:50:24 -
[21] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:We Amarrians are a peace-loving people, but unfortunately the Republic is run by a bunch of psychopaths who revel in death and destruction. Bullshit. Before I became a capsuleer I was a combat engineer. I watched your "peace loving" people glass entire towns, I saw slavers shoot women, children, and the elderly for trying to flee, and watched as my people were taken in chains and beaten even when they didn't resist. If this is your "peace" I'd prefer to have war.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Skyweir Kinnison
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
44
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:52:08 -
[22] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Anything is possible.
2. Amarr already has a declared ally in the Caldari State. Why aren't they helping, since the mechanisms are already in place? It appears that they haven't been asked. The Alliance between the State and Empire refers to the state of affairs between the Empire, Federation, Republic and The State. It did not give the Empress carte blanche to drag us into any war she felt like starting without consulting us first. Any decision by The State to get involved at this point would follow the steps below: 1. Formal request by the Empire 2. CEP weighs up the costs and benefits of involvement 3. Decision to get involved or not announced 4. Outcome
Exactly what I thought.
So if Amarr wanted help, they have the mechanisms in place to approach the State with such a request - far more easily than approaching the Federation, and an order of magnitude easier than having to scrape to the Republic.
They don't appear to want help. Yet.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2205
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:52:30 -
[23] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:We Amarrians are a peace-loving people, but unfortunately the Republic is run by a bunch of psychopaths who revel in death and destruction. Bullshit. Before I became a capsuleer I was a combat engineer. I watched your "peace loving" people glass entire towns, I saw slavers shoot women, children, and the elderly for trying to flee, and watched as my people were taken in chains and beaten even when they didn't resist. If this is your "peace" I'd prefer to have war.
I hardly think that the Aidonis committee would have honoured Emperor Heideran VII if what you say is true.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
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Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
383
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Peace between the empires existed for over a century. And that peace would still be surviving until today had it not been for the insane actions of Shakor and his self-styled Elders.
Even after they attacked Amarr, Empress Jamyl took the brave step of releasing an unprecedented number of slaves. Many of us hoped that this peace overture would have some effect on the Minmatars. But did the Shakorites even consider making overtures of their own? They did not.
Is a truce possible?
We Amarrians are a peace-loving people, but unfortunately the Republic is run by a bunch of psychopaths who revel in death and destruction.
Peace existed nine hundred and ninety eight years ago when a peace loving people brutally enslaved and worked to destroy another people who offended their idea that they alone were of god.
Says the abuser to who they abuse: "You make me do this to you."
-áFear The Tribes
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Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1486
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Posted - 2015.08.26 18:54:13 -
[25] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:They don't appear to want help. Yet. For the moment it does seem kind of personal. Killing the Empress probably guaranteed that in the short run.
Which, again, may have been the Drifters being clever. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1316
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Posted - 2015.08.26 19:00:12 -
[26] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:I hardly think that the Aidonis committee would have honoured Emperor Heideran VII if what you say is true.
Quote: Their only gripe is with the Amarrian society itself, such as practices of slavery and other breaches of human rights.
Slavers raiding Republic space might not be officially working for the Empire, but we all know that it isn't the Angels who have the largest slave markets. And that doesn't address raids into the Thukker territories in Great Wildlands.
So really, humanitarian awards for peace between the empires... they're wonderful and high-minded and we're all very sure they impress the mega-wealthy... but the oppressed would just as likely tell you where you can shove them. |
Skyweir Kinnison
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
44
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Posted - 2015.08.26 19:07:51 -
[27] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Skyweir Kinnison wrote:They don't appear to want help. Yet. For the moment it does seem kind of personal. Killing the Empress probably guaranteed that in the short run. Which, again, may have been the Drifters being clever.
Indeed. Any in many ways, I admire and applaud the Empire for its stance. If it proves possible for Amarr to defend herself from this threat, it is far preferable for them to do so. It would play well at home, and restore their sense of faith. Not so wonderful for the rest of us, as arrogant Amarrians high on victory are not noted for flexibility, but any government would want to avenge the murder of their leader themselves. Look at how crazy the Republic went when Midular was assasinated.
In addition, none of the stable and experienced governments will want to make the task of asking for help any harder. We all know how stiff-necked Amarr can be, and there should be no hint of making them beg should they be forced to seek aid.
Because if they get to that stage, we'll all know there is a very serious threat.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
562
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Posted - 2015.08.26 19:20:47 -
[28] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Tyrel Toov wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:We Amarrians are a peace-loving people, but unfortunately the Republic is run by a bunch of psychopaths who revel in death and destruction. Bullshit. Before I became a capsuleer I was a combat engineer. I watched your "peace loving" people glass entire towns, I saw slavers shoot women, children, and the elderly for trying to flee, and watched as my people were taken in chains and beaten even when they didn't resist. If this is your "peace" I'd prefer to have war. I hardly think that the Aidonis committee would have honoured Emperor Heideran VII if what you say is true. And yet, it is. And to this day it happens. Just because someone received an accolade doesn't mean that they deserve it.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Cain Aloga
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
119
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Posted - 2015.08.26 19:45:52 -
[29] - Quote
I believe that the Tribal Council's position on the drifters is that they do not represent a current threat to the Republic. No doubt they will continue to monitor the situation and adjust their position as changes.
With this in mind, I do not forsee the Republic coming to aide the Great Enemy, even should they request it. |
Ahman Nahrid
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
5
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Posted - 2015.08.26 20:18:32 -
[30] - Quote
Though I have but passing knowledge of the subject, I was made aware of the possible connection between the Drifters and the Sleepers, and that the Drifters have struck against the Empress and the Empire due to the perceived ransacking of Sleeper installations by Imperial agents. However, such was performed by Federal, State, Republic and independent parties as well - in time leading to the Tech 3 series of cruisers.
Under the assumption that there is indeed a direct relation between the Drifters and Sleepers, and that the Drifter aggression is a determined act of aggressive defense - or retribution - against further salvaging of Sleeper components, it is highly likely the Drifters ultimately intend to strike at Empire, Kingdom, Mandate, Federation, State and Republic alike.
As such, one must consider that it lies within the Drifters' strategy to isolate and eliminate major opposition one by one, by exploiting inherent vulnerabilities within and between each individual faction. The Empress was a figure of leadership that Greater Amarr ralied around, and her death now hampers overall defense why the succession is being conducted. Likewise, if acting upon the intended strategy of divide-and-conquer, the drifters shall indeed avoid profiling themselves as a threat to the Republic to further deter its involvement - and likely seek to exploit tribal divisions to their own advantage. Apply these methods to the Federation (whose President provides a public leader to the Gallente as the Empress did Greater Amarr) and the Caldari (whose megacorporations are by nature as competitive for limited resources as the Minmatar tribes).
A unified New Eden would present the Drifters with a force that is flexible and adaptive, bringing strengths and combat doctrines to the field that can compensate for the weaknesses of others. Yet isolated, the drifters are able to adapt and eliminate each faction piecemeal. Unlike us, the Drifters are unlikely to be internally divided.
Thus one must now weigh the cost of building and fighting within a Great Alliance at the risk the threat was only ever to Amarr, or the cost of passively observing at the risk the Drifters are indeed set on establishing dominance across the entire cluster - and to be eliminated one by one.
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Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2123
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Posted - 2015.08.26 21:34:58 -
[31] - Quote
I'm looking at a dream aren't i? While the bitter relationship between both the Minmatar and Amarr is understandable..
If the Drifters really are the sleepers are planning to launch a attack on another Empire then the leaders of theses nations should in my opinion consider forming a temp alliance in order to combat the Drifters....While they have many disagrements and bad blood, none of that is gonna matter IF the Drifters are really here to wipe out everyone and not just the Empire...
IF we combine our forces and brightest minds we could become a force that could cause some serious damage to the Drifters...
By merging our fleets we can cover everything from ECM to Target painters...Neuts to Damps
By forming a joint science team we can work towards better understanding theses drifters, develop tactics, learn if they have a weakness and how we can exploit it
And if we overcome the Drifters we can return to our usual war...Or go back to living in peace...Thats what i see..
(.___________________________________________.)/
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
2016
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 21:48:11 -
[32] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote: You'll burn last. With all your kin. And there'll be no one left to help you.
Condescension thy name is Jenneth.
Since apparently foreseeing the future is among your varied skillset how about telling us all who the next emperor/empress will be? I have some spare isk laying around and I'd love to bet on a sure thing.
You and the others spouting this rhetoric have no damned hard evidence that the Drifters have anything else in mind beyond revenge on the imperials for some unstated grievance. None. Produce some credible evidence that these beings aren't specifically targeting the slavers and plan to attack the rest of us and I'll listen. Until then you're simply opining and attempting to scare people into aiding your ally.
No pilot, this is an Amarrian problem that should be left to the Amarr to sort out on their own.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1979
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 22:00:39 -
[33] - Quote
There was already a ridiculous attempt of making a truce, a parody on a peace conference, which even decided to not listen to Caldari position.
As for possibility for truce, it really isn't hard to accomplish. As soon as Federals will admit their war crimes, submit all those who planned operation Highlander to Caldari war tribunal, cease torturing Caldari POWs in their camps, as soon as all gallente population will be removed from Caldari Prime and territory of the planet, around it, and leading to it will become Caldari territory, and all gallente occupants will leave Caldari warzone, as well as a charter that started this Federation will be annuled, only then Gallente and Caldari people will be able to live in peace.
Then we will have this truce. |
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
126
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 22:03:01 -
[34] - Quote
Avio Yaken wrote:I'm looking at a dream aren't i? While the bitter relationship between both the Minmatar and Amarr is understandable..
If the Drifters really are the sleepers are planning to launch a attack on another Empire then the leaders of theses nations should in my opinion consider forming a temp alliance in order to combat the Drifters....While they have many disagrements and bad blood, none of that is gonna matter IF the Drifters are really here to wipe out everyone and not just the Empire...
IF we combine our forces and brightest minds we could become a force that could cause some serious damage to the Drifters...
By merging our fleets we can cover everything from ECM to Target painters...Neuts to Damps
By forming a joint science team we can work towards better understanding theses drifters, develop tactics, learn if they have a weakness and how we can exploit it
And if we overcome the Drifters we can return to our usual war...Or go back to living in peace...Thats what i see..
Perhaps it is a dream but it is one worth pursuing if it means the preserving the lives of the people who inhabit the Holy Amarr Empire , both slave and citizen, and those beyond should these incursions develop into something larger than 'an Amarrian concern'.
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1454
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 22:07:02 -
[35] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:There was already a ridiculous attempt of making a truce, a parody on a peace conference, which even decided to not listen to Caldari position.
As for possibility for truce, it really isn't hard to accomplish. As soon as Federals will admit their war crimes, submit all those who planned operation Highlander to Caldari war tribunal, cease torturing Caldari POWs in their camps, as soon as all gallente population will be removed from Caldari Prime and territory of the planet, around it, and leading to it will become Caldari territory, and all gallente occupants will leave Caldari warzone, as well as a charter that started this Federation will be annuled, only then Gallente and Caldari people will be able to live in peace.
Then we will have this truce. Whelp, you heard it here folks. The highest authority in the state has issued her demands for a truce.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2123
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 22:09:20 -
[36] - Quote
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:Avio Yaken wrote:I'm looking at a dream aren't i? While the bitter relationship between both the Minmatar and Amarr is understandable..
If the Drifters really are the sleepers are planning to launch a attack on another Empire then the leaders of theses nations should in my opinion consider forming a temp alliance in order to combat the Drifters....While they have many disagrements and bad blood, none of that is gonna matter IF the Drifters are really here to wipe out everyone and not just the Empire...
IF we combine our forces and brightest minds we could become a force that could cause some serious damage to the Drifters...
By merging our fleets we can cover everything from ECM to Target painters...Neuts to Damps
By forming a joint science team we can work towards better understanding theses drifters, develop tactics, learn if they have a weakness and how we can exploit it
And if we overcome the Drifters we can return to our usual war...Or go back to living in peace...Thats what i see..
Perhaps it is a dream but it is one worth pursuing if it means the preserving the lives of the people who inhabit the Holy Amarr Empire , both slave and citizen, and those beyond should these incursions develop into something larger than 'an Amarrian concern'.
This is bigger than just the Amarr...This is for Humanity...
(.___________________________________________.)/
|
Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
569
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 22:13:50 -
[37] - Quote
Avio Yaken wrote:Soren Tyrhanos wrote:Avio Yaken wrote:I'm looking at a dream aren't i? While the bitter relationship between both the Minmatar and Amarr is understandable..
If the Drifters really are the sleepers are planning to launch a attack on another Empire then the leaders of theses nations should in my opinion consider forming a temp alliance in order to combat the Drifters....While they have many disagrements and bad blood, none of that is gonna matter IF the Drifters are really here to wipe out everyone and not just the Empire...
IF we combine our forces and brightest minds we could become a force that could cause some serious damage to the Drifters...
By merging our fleets we can cover everything from ECM to Target painters...Neuts to Damps
By forming a joint science team we can work towards better understanding theses drifters, develop tactics, learn if they have a weakness and how we can exploit it
And if we overcome the Drifters we can return to our usual war...Or go back to living in peace...Thats what i see..
Perhaps it is a dream but it is one worth pursuing if it means the preserving the lives of the people who inhabit the Holy Amarr Empire , both slave and citizen, and those beyond should these incursions develop into something larger than 'an Amarrian concern'. This is bigger than just the Amarr...This is for Humanity... Which, if I remember correctly, means just the Amarr. Because everyone else is "subhuman" in there book.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
|
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
126
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 22:25:28 -
[38] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Avio Yaken wrote:Soren Tyrhanos wrote:Avio Yaken wrote:I'm looking at a dream aren't i? While the bitter relationship between both the Minmatar and Amarr is understandable..
If the Drifters really are the sleepers are planning to launch a attack on another Empire then the leaders of theses nations should in my opinion consider forming a temp alliance in order to combat the Drifters....While they have many disagrements and bad blood, none of that is gonna matter IF the Drifters are really here to wipe out everyone and not just the Empire...
IF we combine our forces and brightest minds we could become a force that could cause some serious damage to the Drifters...
By merging our fleets we can cover everything from ECM to Target painters...Neuts to Damps
By forming a joint science team we can work towards better understanding theses drifters, develop tactics, learn if they have a weakness and how we can exploit it
And if we overcome the Drifters we can return to our usual war...Or go back to living in peace...Thats what i see..
Perhaps it is a dream but it is one worth pursuing if it means the preserving the lives of the people who inhabit the Holy Amarr Empire , both slave and citizen, and those beyond should these incursions develop into something larger than 'an Amarrian concern'. This is bigger than just the Amarr...This is for Humanity... Which, if I remember correctly, means just the Amarr. Because everyone else is "subhuman" in there book.
Where have I called anyone 'subhuman'? |
Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
571
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 22:58:17 -
[39] - Quote
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Where have I called anyone 'subhuman'?
quote wrote: None shall stand higher than you save the Sefrim, Who serve Me as others shall serve you, For all things under Me serve one higher; So Amarr shall rule the worlds of the Heavens. Basically this says it for you.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
|
Markus Error
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 23:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
We can all agree that the Drifters are a threat to humanity (not humanity as defined by the Amarr solely) but unfortunately humanity seems astonishingly apathetic.
Although, yes, the most like course of events is either impassive staring, popcorn, or interested observation as the Amarr fight their war with the Drifters. Anyone care to place bets on the outcome?
Hey.
|
|
Math'ra Hiede
Khanid Interstellar Survey and Security
54
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 23:44:45 -
[41] - Quote
Markus Error wrote:We can all agree that the Drifters are a threat to humanity (not humanity as defined by the Amarr solely) but unfortunately humanity seems astonishingly apathetic.
Although, yes, the most like course of events is either impassive staring, popcorn, or interested observation as the Amarr fight their war with the Drifters. Anyone care to place bets on the outcome?
We will loose, the Empire will burn and you will stand around laughing joyfully.
Am I on your train of thought yet? Because if I am you're a complete idiot.
No the Empire hasn't called for help, WE ARE. The Capsuleers loyal to the Empire are calling for help. WE need help, the Empire all ready calls for us to aid, all you have to do to see that is fly to an Incursion site and read the global broadcast.
As a loyal pilot of the Kingdom, we need all the Capsuleer help we can. I am not so short sighted and blind to ignore what is blatantly obvious to any with half a working brain.
|
Vikarion
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
866
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 23:56:34 -
[42] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:There was already a ridiculous attempt of making a truce, a parody on a peace conference, which even decided to not listen to Caldari position.
As for possibility for truce, it really isn't hard to accomplish. As soon as Federals will admit their war crimes, submit all those who planned operation Highlander to Caldari war tribunal, cease torturing Caldari POWs in their camps, as soon as all gallente population will be removed from Caldari Prime and territory of the planet, around it, and leading to it will become Caldari territory, and all gallente occupants will leave Caldari warzone, as well as a charter that started this Federation will be annuled, only then Gallente and Caldari people will be able to live in peace.
Then we will have this truce. Whelp, you heard it here folks. The highest authority in the state has issued her demands for a truce.
I don't recall saying anything. |
Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1494
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 23:59:25 -
[43] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:You'll burn last. With all your kin. And there'll be no one left to help you. Condescension thy name is Jenneth. Since apparently foreseeing the future is among your varied skillset how about telling us all who the next emperor/empress will be? I have some spare isk laying around and I'd love to bet on a sure thing. Respectfully, Ms. Rella, in your irritation you've left out a lot of what I said.
What i said was:
Aria Jenneth wrote:Respectfully, pilot, we're likely fighting the Sleepers. If that's true, we're all aggressors, and the Drifters have cleverly picked the most easily-isolated first target.
They'll probably come after each of us in turn. If I were them, I'd go for the Gallente, next-- the Caldari will be asking questions similar to yours, and the Minmatar Republic will likely be busy trying to get to surviving formerly-enslaved Matari before the pirate factions do.
Then the State. Then the line that seems to have irritated you.
Anabella Rella wrote:You and the others spouting this rhetoric have no damned hard evidence that the Drifters have anything else in mind beyond revenge on the imperials for some unstated grievance. None. Produce some credible evidence that these beings aren't specifically targeting the slavers and plan to attack the rest of us and I'll listen. Until then you're simply opining and attempting to scare people into aiding your ally.
No pilot, this is an Amarrian problem that should be left to the Amarr to sort out on their own. That's true. No hard evidence I know of.
There's circumstantial evidence gradually piling up, though: sleeper devices, ships apparently related to the Machariel in their design. From the description Arek'Jaalan put together, a Drifter ship seems like a fusion of principles from both known space and Anoikis. Kind of like our "T3" vessels, maybe.
Maybe the Jove really are doing this. They have some reason not to care for the Amarr, and there was that bit with the SoCT.
But that leaves a lot of mysteries dangling. Why would the Jove reveal their own highly-effective surveillance network and then break it down for parts?
Maybe this is something from outside our experience. Maybe it's something truly new. That leaves even more mysteries, though.
Or ... maybe it's someone we've already met, someone with abundant reason to act against New Eden who already had access to a lot of the technology we're seeing. That would explain a lot of things.
Having accessed the observatories, they likely know an awful lot about us. Like: who's likely to be diplomatically isolated, and who has too much pride to call for help. Who they can pick, essentially, a one-on-one fight with by issuing the deadliest possible insult.
Perhaps I really am being condescending. All right; I guess that's maybe true. If so, I apologize.
But if I'm right, though, you're being played. So are the Amarr, who haven't called for help even from the Caldari.
We all are.
If I'm scaring people, Ms. Rella, it's because ... I'm scared. |
Math'ra Hiede
Khanid Interstellar Survey and Security
54
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 00:05:25 -
[44] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote: If I'm scaring people, Ms. Rella, it's because ... I'm scared.
And this is exactly how we should all feel.
|
Markus Error
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 00:12:07 -
[45] - Quote
Math'ra Hiede wrote: We will loose, the Empire will burn and you will stand around laughing joyfully.
Am I on your train of thought yet? Because if I am you're a complete idiot.
Laughing joyfully?
Not hardly. I don't have that much sympathy for the Empire nor its loyalists, but neutrality would be my stance.
Don't expect much help from the Minmatar, though.
Hey.
|
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
254
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 00:20:31 -
[46] - Quote
Unfortunately for the Amarr Empire it seems likely that the other High Sec Powers (including CONCORD one assumes) and their loyalist capsuleers are unlikely to regard the Drifters as a 'global' threat until they start to attack someone else in earnest. Until that time every Imperial loss makes every non-Amarr citizen of New Eden that much safer.
Every Empire would treat this more seriously if this escalated to any other High Sec faction simply because it expands the likelihood that everyone is a Drifter target. The only surety that is in play is that if another Empire chooses to rush to the Amarrs aid then the risk of Drifter incursions against their own territory will dramatically increase.
If the Amarr have pursued a hostile course with every other people in New Eden then now they can pay the price. The Empress probably had a Drifter slave as a novelty or some other piece of petty villainy that has brought this on you.
I would urge the Caldari State not to respond to any Amarr requests for aid should they materialise. If you engage the Drifters first then it will leave the Tribes and the Federation in doubt as to the Drifters intentions if they were to counter attack Caldari Territory. If the Drifters were seen to attack the State significantly and unprovoked then we all would take the Drifters more seriously. |
Math'ra Hiede
Khanid Interstellar Survey and Security
55
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 00:29:51 -
[47] - Quote
Markus Error wrote:Math'ra Hiede wrote: We will loose, the Empire will burn and you will stand around laughing joyfully.
Am I on your train of thought yet? Because if I am you're a complete idiot.
Laughing joyfully? Not hardly. I don't have that much sympathy for the Empire nor its loyalists, but neutrality would be my stance. Don't expect much help from the Minmatar, though.
I'm not.
You've more than proven, along with most of the Matari, that you wish nothing more than to see the Empire and by extension the Kingdom burn.
I would like you to remember this. Because I certainly will
You cling to old wounds and hate like it nothing I have ever seen. It will be the reason you burn |
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
127
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 00:46:04 -
[48] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Where have I called anyone 'subhuman'?
quote wrote: None shall stand higher than you save the Sefrim, Who serve Me as others shall serve you, For all things under Me serve one higher; So Amarr shall rule the worlds of the Heavens. Basically this says it for you.
Again where have 'I' said anything about 'subhumans'.
The inference is that the Amarr are a people destined to rule. That then must include all of the peoples who comprise the Amarr Empire including converted Udorian, Ni-Kunni, and Minmatar ethnicities.
|
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1630
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 09:47:20 -
[49] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:Unfortunately for the Amarr Empire it seems likely that the other High Sec Powers (including CONCORD one assumes) and their loyalist capsuleers are unlikely to regard the Drifters as a 'global' threat until they start to attack someone else in earnest. Until that time every Imperial loss makes every non-Amarr citizen of New Eden that much safer.
Every Empire would treat this more seriously if this escalated to any other High Sec faction simply because it expands the likelihood that everyone is a Drifter target. The only surety that is in play is that if another Empire chooses to rush to the Amarrs aid then the risk of Drifter incursions against their own territory will dramatically increase.
If the Amarr have pursued a hostile course with every other people in New Eden then now they can pay the price. The Empress probably had a Drifter slave as a novelty or some other piece of petty villainy that has brought this on you.
I would urge the Caldari State not to respond to any Amarr requests for aid should they materialise. If you engage the Drifters first then it will leave the Tribes and the Federation in doubt as to the Drifters intentions if they were to counter attack Caldari Territory. If the Drifters were seen to attack the State significantly and unprovoked then we all would take the Drifters more seriously.
I agree with your assessment. The Caldari State must tread carefully and not muddy the waters or be dragged into a war that is not theirs to fight. However should the Drifters escalate beyond the Amarr Empire or begin to assault civilian facilities this would change things significantly. In this situation a fully unified response as per the Sansha Incursions would be called for. |
Cain Aloga
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
121
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 11:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Avio Yaken wrote:Soren Tyrhanos wrote:Avio Yaken wrote:I'm looking at a dream aren't i? While the bitter relationship between both the Minmatar and Amarr is understandable..
If the Drifters really are the sleepers are planning to launch a attack on another Empire then the leaders of theses nations should in my opinion consider forming a temp alliance in order to combat the Drifters....While they have many disagrements and bad blood, none of that is gonna matter IF the Drifters are really here to wipe out everyone and not just the Empire...
IF we combine our forces and brightest minds we could become a force that could cause some serious damage to the Drifters...
By merging our fleets we can cover everything from ECM to Target painters...Neuts to Damps
By forming a joint science team we can work towards better understanding theses drifters, develop tactics, learn if they have a weakness and how we can exploit it
And if we overcome the Drifters we can return to our usual war...Or go back to living in peace...Thats what i see..
Perhaps it is a dream but it is one worth pursuing if it means the preserving the lives of the people who inhabit the Holy Amarr Empire , both slave and citizen, and those beyond should these incursions develop into something larger than 'an Amarrian concern'. This is bigger than just the Amarr...This is for Humanity...
Prove it. |
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2318
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 11:53:24 -
[51] - Quote
We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.
CONCORD has been a failure.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Skyweir Kinnison
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
50
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:26:13 -
[52] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.
CONCORD has been a failure.
Again with the threats.
Diplomacy 101: Be nice to those who you may need to commit to interstellar cooperation. Oh, and ask for help if you need it.
Where are people's manners these days?
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
|
Svetlana Laknaya
Khushakor Clan
34
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:35:14 -
[53] - Quote
Pride is rarely set aside in the name of peace. It is up to our corporations to reach out to one another and make cooperation a reality we cannot wait for the baseliner populations to do so since it isn't in human nature to do so. We could however, be the leadership the baselineers need if they see our groups set aside old grudges for a common threat. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5777
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:48:46 -
[54] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.
CONCORD has been a failure. Congratulations, Kernher. You've just managed to lose my support.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5482
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:54:58 -
[55] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: The Caldari State must tread carefully and not muddy the waters or be dragged into a war that is not theirs to fight. However should the Drifters escalate beyond the Amarr Empire or begin to assault civilian facilities this would change things significantly. In this situation a fully unified response as per the Sansha Incursions would be called for.
The waters are, unfortunately, already muddied. Why have the Drifters escalated? Why do they target the Empire specifically? What are their grievances and motivations? Why attack the Empress in so personal a manner?
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2493
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 15:41:45 -
[56] - Quote
You're one of the best of us, Aria. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1639
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 16:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: The Caldari State must tread carefully and not muddy the waters or be dragged into a war that is not theirs to fight. However should the Drifters escalate beyond the Amarr Empire or begin to assault civilian facilities this would change things significantly. In this situation a fully unified response as per the Sansha Incursions would be called for. The waters are, unfortunately, already muddied. Why have the Drifters escalated? Why do they target the Empire specifically? What are their grievances and motivations? Why attack the Empress in so personal a manner?
Currently I'd say it seems pretty clear cut that this is an issue the Drifters have with the Amarr. I would prefer the Amarr governing bodies to give any information they can as to what the cause may be.
As you say the attack on Empress Jamyl I seemed to be very personal indeed. If this is an issue between the Drifters and Amarr then the other Empires have no right or reason to be involved. Indeed their involvement very possibly could escalate a war involving a single Empire into a cluster wide conflict
The other Empires should of course make ready in case the Drifters do have designs on other regions. If this proves to be the case then immediate assistance should be given to the Amarr Empire and a concerted unified response directed against the Drifters. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2325
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 16:47:02 -
[58] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.
CONCORD has been a failure. Again with the threats. Diplomacy 101: Be nice to those who you may need to commit to interstellar cooperation. Oh, and ask for help if you need it.
We have been. We have been for over a century. We've sacrificed our culture in the name of peace, joined other nations' wars, and on multiple occasions we have offered financial support and other aid to foreign governments without needing to be asked and even when we were at war with them.
But it's never enough. The other nations will keep asking for us to give more and more and more until they are convinced to help us. Just look at half the posts in this thread. Look at Vanis-Tor's post.
That's enough. We're done. If your governments aren't going to assist now then they aren't ever going to and we're wasting our time by trying.
We shouldn't have to ask.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2022
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 16:50:21 -
[59] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.
CONCORD has been a failure. Fine. Then burn at the hands of the Drifters, arrogant slaver mouthpiece. The same goes for the rest of you belligerent asses making veiled threats against the rest of us.
News flash; we Matari don't like you. Read a (non-imperial) history book to find out why. Why should we? Most of us however really don't give a tinker's damn what happens to you. That notwithstanding, we do care for our enslaved brothers and sisters and our Federation allies. Should there be convincing evidence that these beings constitute a clear and present danger to the Republic, Federation and/or State then, and only then, will we intervene.
Even then our intervention will be out of enlightened self-interest and not because we care whether you imperials live or die.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2325
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 16:52:25 -
[60] - Quote
Why should you?
Because we're both member states of CONCORD, that's why. That should be the only reason needed.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
|
Anslo
Scope Works
32147
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 16:54:26 -
[61] - Quote
Meanwhile, independents are all snug and comfy and happy.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2209
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:00:11 -
[62] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:
5) The 24th IC to abandon sovereignty they hold in any traditional Minmatar Territory in the Metropolis/Heimatar regions. Also for the Empire to cease any further aggression in the warzone. In perpetuity.
I would be happy to see those systems originally settled by Minmatar nations in the hands of the Minmatar, and those systems originally settled by the Empire and its constituent peoples in the hands of the Empire.
Agreed?
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2024
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:02:38 -
[63] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Why should you?
Because we're both member states of CONCORD, that's why. That should be the only reason needed. You can't have it both ways. In one post you cry about how CONCORD has failed and in the next appeal to us because we're both members of the failed institution.
So which is it? Do you believe in CONCORD and the rule of law or not? If so, go to the Inner Circle in emergency session and ask for help. If not, well good luck, I guess.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2325
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
It's failed precisely because the other nation governments refuse to provide collective defense. An attack by an external force on any CONCORD signatory should be met with a combined force from every signatory. Help shouldn't have to be requested, or negotiated or bargained for. It should be offered, and provided, without question.
If this is not the case, then there is no point in having CONCORD. International cooperation requires nations to cooperate. But your nations prove time and time again that you have no desire to.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Cain Aloga
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
122
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:07:45 -
[65] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Why should you?
Because we're both member states of CONCORD, that's why. That should be the only reason needed.
I was under the pression thatbyou were more intelligent than this statement portrays. I still belive yiu are, however it seems desperation has begun to cloud your reasoning. You yourself have stated that CONCORD has failed. Many Matari would like nothing more than to see the Empire crumble, and its ruins burned. There is another thread on these forums asking how and when do we interact with our crews, and many of mine have expressed the same, regardless if we burn with you.
"Let them die of their sins" is a statement that has been repeated. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5488
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:09:51 -
[66] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Meanwhile, independents are all snug and comfy and happy.
Yah, really? Because being less of a threat just means you're dessert, it doesn't mean you aren't on the menu, suuolo.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2126
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:14:15 -
[67] - Quote
Look, im not saying we have ot be friends and this whole thread is basically a WHAT IF scenario
While theres little evidence to support they would attack another nation besides the amarr we should at least prepare for the possibility that they would attack another nation..
If they do attack someone else besides the amarr then i would say its safe to think they are here to wipe us all out and not just the Amarr
At that point i say we put aside our understandable hatred for one second and work together to remove the drifters
THEN we can break the alliance and go back to whatever we are doing
(.___________________________________________.)/
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Anslo
Scope Works
32147
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:18:46 -
[68] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Meanwhile, independents are all snug and comfy and happy. Yah, really? Because being less of a threat just means you're dessert, it doesn't mean you aren't on the menu, suuolo. We already proved we can handle them quite efficiently.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2126
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:20:26 -
[69] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Meanwhile, independents are all snug and comfy and happy. Yah, really? Because being less of a threat just means you're dessert, it doesn't mean you aren't on the menu, suuolo. We already proved we can handle them quite efficiently.
So you are telling me you fought in the recent incursion and actually cleared out a few sites....Then share us your tactics!
(.___________________________________________.)/
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1351
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:23:44 -
[70] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Why should you?
Because we're both member states of CONCORD, that's why. That should be the only reason needed.
But it won't be. CONCORD is a hollow sham, Lieutenant. You know that as well as I do.
I expect, however, that as soon as our current hostilities are ended, we will be assisting. |
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5784
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:27:52 -
[71] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:We shouldn't have to ask. Shouldn't you, Samira? A century of grudging peace doesn't magically make up for the Empire's previous actions. I've always suspect that the Empire's policy of painting itself as diplomatic peace-seekers who always honour their treaties and fulfil their oaths and promises was a charade; a charade forced on a nation that, for the first time in its entire history, was confronted with a situation it could not use overwhelming military force to triumph over.
Examine the Empire's history - every single time it has believed it held uncontested military superiority over an independent nation, it has used it to conquer that nation. Examine the Udorians. Examine the Ealurians. Examine the Ni-Kunni. Examine the Minmatar. Apart from the Udorians, who I suppose you could make the argument of being a cultural threat to the Amarr (because, you know, their society allowed more social mobility and didn't strand you for life in the role assigned to you by those who had the power to do so), no society ever provoked you into attacking them - your first response upon meeting them was to attempt to conquer them. The sole exception to this rule were the Khanid, who were already enemies of people you wished to conquer.
The first time the Amarr Empire was ever forced to seriously consider diplomacy as a long-term strategy was upon meeting the Federation, and that was because the Empire immediately recognised the Federation's military was comparable in strength to its own. The Empire recognised that attempting to fight the Federation bore a significant probability of failure, the results of which would be utterly disastrous. Consider then the Caldari, whom upon first discovering the Amarr briefly proposed to enslave. And consider the Jove, whom the Amarr believed to be weak and ripe for conquest - only withdrawing after a disastrous first battle and the Minmatar Rebellion forced them to reconsider.
The Minmatar Rebellion was a resounding success (for the Minmatar), and the Federation's war with its current enemy, the Caldari, chilled to a glacial pace. Faced with the Republic, a nascent nation that had a vast number of perfectly legitimate reasons to seek its demise and the Federation, a huge, well-established nation of comparable military strength that would almost certainly become involved if they attempted to reconquer it, the Amarr were forced, with gritted teeth, to abandon military conquest as a legitimate tactic for the advancement of its agenda and instead consider diplomacy. To its credit, I will admit that it has become very adept at certain diplomatic tactics - usually playing the reformed victim of prejudice while it still holds trillions of unwilling foreign captives in bondage and psychologically abuses them.
But I do not believe that the Empire has changed. I firmly believe that if a state of affairs came about that meant the Empire was no longer opposed by military forces of comparable strength - or at the very least, if the Empire believed this to be the case - they would almost immediately return to their old ways. This is a conveniently untestable hypothesis, as it hasn't yet happened.
What has happened, however, is almost the exact opposite - somehow, the Empire has become the target of a military force which to all appearences holds the power to threaten not only its supremacy but its very existence. For perhaps the first time in its history the Amarr Empire has been forced to contend with the concept of its own mortality. It is forced to consider that this threat may be beyond the power of the Empire alone to defeat.
But does it ask for help, from this hodge-podge alliance of mutually disdainful nations it joined out of neccessity? Does it deign for even one second to humour the possibility that the universe does not, in fact, revolve around Dam-Torsad? No, from this assembly of nations that it only joined because at that point in time it could not subjugate them through force, it demands help, and furthermore it imperiously blusters that it shouldn't even have to demand it, that such help - help, one feels, that would be incredibly scarce were it the Federation or the Republic that the Drifters were besieging - shouldn't even need to be demanded, that it should be implicit.
No, Samira. No, you most certainly have to ask for help. After all the Empire has done, it most certainly owes us that, at least.
Do you know what, though, Samira? Even in spite of all the things that the Empire has done, if it asked for help, I would give it. Forget Tetua, forget Del'Thul, forget Respirox and Toov and Ushra'Khan, if the Empire honestly, openly asked for help, I'd give it. I'd encourage other Federals to give it - heck, I'd petition Admiral Bauvon and the Federal Senate to acknowledge and accept the request for assistance.
If this were the Federation - if this were my people, my home, my way of life - in jeapordy, I would not hestiate. I would beg on bended knee. I would abase myself, before the IGS, before the members of CONCORD, before the nullsec alliances - I would beg them to help. Do you know why? Because my pride matters less to me than my home. I'm not even asking Amarr to do any of that. I'm just asking that for one moment they at least feign having a sense of perspective and do not act as if they are entitled to help simply because they were gracious enough not to try and conquer us last century.
I'm disappointed in you, Samira. I was coming to respect you, and through you, I was slowly the rest of the Empire. Now you've managed to reignite one of my old, nearly dormant prejudices - that the Empire and its people will immediately resort to threats when they don't get what they want.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5490
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:31:39 -
[72] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Meanwhile, independents are all snug and comfy and happy. Yah, really? Because being less of a threat just means you're dessert, it doesn't mean you aren't on the menu, suuolo. We already proved we can handle them quite efficiently.
They recently proved that an escorted Titan class vessel can't handle them efficiently. The only two things they have to do to prove themselves a fully existential threat is take down a station and glass a planet. I know that they're capable of the latter, it remains only to see if they can achieve the former.
And then where's your independent ass going to dock up?
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Cain Aloga
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
124
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:35:29 -
[73] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote: Text
This was very well said. The Gallantean reputation for eloquence is not exaggerated. |
Anslo
Scope Works
32151
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:43:56 -
[74] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Meanwhile, independents are all snug and comfy and happy. Yah, really? Because being less of a threat just means you're dessert, it doesn't mean you aren't on the menu, suuolo. We already proved we can handle them quite efficiently. They recently proved that an escorted Titan class vessel can't handle them efficiently. The only two things they have to do to prove themselves a fully existential threat is take down a station and glass a planet. I know that they're capable of the latter, it remains only to see if they can achieve the former. And then where's your independent ass going to dock up? Her Titan took hull amount of damage. She did not activate her hardeners. I don't know what she was doing but she was doing it wrong. Other super pilots are still fairing just fine.
But whatever, keep talking among yourselves. I don't know why I keep posting here. Not worth it anymore.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2328
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:47:10 -
[75] - Quote
You know nothing about our culture or our religion, Ixiris. We do not hold to promises and treaties because it's convenient, we hold to them because we are obligated to do so by God. To lie is to sin. The Deceiver is named such for a reason. Our entire society is governed by oaths of fealty and loyalty.
Yes, we are conquerors. Those of us who believe in honesty have never denied that. That doesn't mean we don't know how to talk, or how to be peaceful. You cite all the races we conquered, but we have also integrated people through diplomacy, such as the khanid.
You say 'acting reformed'. Reformed from what? We are who we are. We make no apologies for who we are. Old ways, new ways, there's no such thing. We deal with the situation according to what the situation demands.
And all of this is irrelevant. An external, alien force is attacking a CONCORD signatory. All of those treaties we signed, now is when they get called in. We paid for, we built, trillions of DED ships for precisely this purpose. CONCORD was made to protect our nations, both from each other and from those outside who would harm us. We can hate each other. We can despise each other's cultures. But when any of us are threatened we must respond as one united whole or there is no point in any of this.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5786
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:53:05 -
[76] - Quote
Would you be so quick to demand CONCORD's attention if it was the Republic that was being attacked, Samira? Would you be rushing to help them with no thought for reward, even if they had not asked for help?
Would you help the Republic even if they did? Would you not demand concessions from them, as concessions have been demanded from you?
It's all very well to be in favour of solidarity when you're the one that needs it.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2328
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:54:53 -
[77] - Quote
I would help them. I would expect my government to help them. We have obligations. It is our responsibility to meet those obligations.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5790
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
If what you say is what you truly feel, rather than simply the response you know is expected of you, then you are one in ten thousand. A million, perhaps. Most are not so strong.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1514
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:06:31 -
[79] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:You're one of the best of us, Aria.
That means a whole lot coming from you, of all people, especially, Dr. Scherezad.
In a sense, I really hope you're mistaken. I'm told I'm cold-hearted, and I can see some truth in that. That's not something it seems like "the best of us" should be.
Thanks, though. A lot. |
Skyweir Kinnison
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
59
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:18:56 -
[80] - Quote
Very well said, citizen Ixiris.
Samira Kernher wrote:CONCORD was made to protect our nations, both from each other and from those outside who would harm us. We can hate each other. We can despise each other's cultures. But when any of us are threatened we must respond as one united whole or there is no point in any of this.
I'm not aware of a mutual defence clause in the CONCORD treaties. Considering we spend a lot of time beating each other to pulp under CONCORD's Emergency Militia War Powers Act, I'd be surprised if there was such a clause. CONCORD is more about policing the activities of independent capsuleers to prevent overt criminality in empire space - at least to my reading.
Even if there were such a mutual assistance clause, diplomatic protocols would require a formal request to activate the clause. Otherwise each government would be constantly dealing with fleets of well-meaning (?!) adventurers invading their space to 'help' at the drop of a crisis. Many who are qualified to help Amarr are also considered enemies right now and would risk attack by your faction forces - should they fly to destruction on the fanciful whim you might actually welcome their help (vapourised though they would be)?
Your Caldari allies haven't flown to your help - quite rightly, as explained by Captain Tuulinen, because even they expect to be asked and make an appropriate decision for their own people. I have no doubt you consider that they should simply do Amarr's bidding - like a slave should anticipate his master's needs. Or perhaps they are also on your list of the wicked prevaricators who will need to be purged later on?
Like my compatriot, I am willing to join the fight should my government come to an agreement with the Empire, even though I despise much of what you people do to others and by helping you, I would be tacitly supporting your practices. That's for my conscience to deal with. I don't expect you to beg, just to get off that towering high horse.
And if your pride comes before the ultimate fall, the three governments left will rapidly come to a practical agreement and stand together, if necessary upon the ashes of your prejudices. And I submit, if three of us so united can't defeat the Drifters, the four empires only grudgingly chained together around a hateful and resentful Amarr would never see victory anyway.
Note to self: Stop arguing with fanatics.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
|
|
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2499
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:23:17 -
[81] - Quote
:) You're not cold. You're clear. |
Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2129
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:31:05 -
[82] - Quote
Are we actually starting to get along now? Good lets keep that up, making progress
(.___________________________________________.)/
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2333
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:32:48 -
[83] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:I'm not aware of a mutual defence clause in the CONCORD treaties. Considering we spend a lot of time beating each other to pulp under CONCORD's Emergency Militia War Powers Act, I'd be surprised if there was such a clause. CONCORD is more about policing the activities of independent capsuleers to prevent overt criminality in empire space - at least to my reading.
Even ignoring any actual direct treaties, CONCORD's very mandate demands the protection of its member states.
To protect the right of civilizations to grow and prosper; To preserve the surviving sovereignties of the Dark Ages; To serve justice to those immortals who abuse the privilege of everlasting life; To safeguard the mortals of worlds from dangers which originate in space; To prevent empyrean technology from causing the destruction of humanity - CONCORD Mandate
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
587
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:34:52 -
[84] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote: Forget Tetua, forget Del'Thul, forget Respirox and Toov and Ushra'Khan.... You can't forget us, it's not nice..... and we are awesome.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5792
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:43:05 -
[85] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:You can't forget us, it's not nice..... and we are awesome. Well you're all telling me to ignore the Empire even if they did ask for help. My conscience won't let me do that.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
589
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 18:51:49 -
[86] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tyrel Toov wrote:You can't forget us, it's not nice..... and we are awesome. Well you're all telling me to ignore the Empire even if they did ask for help. My conscience won't let me do that. I never said you had to ignore them. I said I was going to ignore them, I also said I'd be willing to consider offering aid if they asked nicely..... I'm not completely heartless.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5794
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 20:07:05 -
[87] - Quote
In that case, consider yourself retroactively unforgotten.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Sinjin Mokk
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
617
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 20:59:58 -
[88] - Quote
I agree with Lt. Kernher.
(Yes, I actually do, feel free to write that in your SpaceBook)
CONCORD has failed.
She is right in that according to treaty, CONCORD should be doing a LOT more...assuming you believe they should have a military in the first place.
It's taken us three days. Three days to stem the damage of the Drifters in Khanid. Because of the transient and occasionally outlaw nature of the colonies and settlements there, we will never know how many civilian lives were lost, but if you were to count just the crews of the Imperial Navy, that figure would easily be in the millions.
But CONCORD would rather make sure someone's pod up in HiSec doesn't get ganked.
We still have two Sansha incursions going on inside the Federation as I write this, but CONCORD would just rather cordon those systems off and leave it up to capsuleers and locals.
Three days, Khanid stood alone and in three days, I *think* we've managed to take care of the situation. Three days of floating in a zero-g graveyard of Armageddons and Augerors while people sat back in their comfy staterooms doing risk assessments and opining like this was a gravball game because Khanid is too far and here be pirates and Providence is burning and there's a party in Matari and it's just not my problem. And you're right. It wasn't your problem. It was Khanid's. We dealt. The Empire stepped up and followed the treaties they have with us and we delt. CONCORD? Nowhere to be seen. Just an incursion alert and and an estimate of how many goodies you might earn with the Empire.
The time for CONCORD, as it is now, has come and gone.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1355
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 21:59:28 -
[89] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:Three days of floating in a zero-g graveyard of Armageddons and Augerors while people sat back in their comfy staterooms doing risk assessments and opining like this was a gravball game because Khanid is too far and here be pirates and Providence is burning and there's a party in Matari and it's just not my problem.
I do appreciate your frustration, Mr. Mokk. Providence will, at this rate, take us longer than our frankly ridiculously optimistic public estimates - but that's propaganda for you. By our internal estimates... we're actually ahead of our timetable, and adjusting to the new realities of war. It's my sincere hope that we'll be able to render assistance in the near future. That said, we are also fully expecting to be fired upon by the people we'd be assisting, and while I personally will be counseling restraint, I can't guarantee my FC will listen to me.
If we turn up, at least until a working relationship with our Incursion team can be established, my advice is: get out of the way and let the Drifters whittle us down. |
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1458
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 22:01:56 -
[90] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:I agree with Lt. Kernher.
(Yes, I actually do, feel free to write that in your SpaceBook)
You know, you two would make a cute couple.......
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
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Kyoko Sakoda
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
265
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 22:23:58 -
[91] - Quote
Quote:... original post ...
Thread says, "no." |
Svetlana Laknaya
Khushakor Clan
46
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 22:34:51 -
[92] - Quote
Mr. Irxs very well said on the history of the Empire. I can find no fault with any of the points listed, but I do believe that we as capsuleers should still look at doing what we can to join hands in peace and strength to repel threats to humanity. While I was very willing to look at the drifters as an opprotunity at first now I am seeing my brothers and sisters who are enslaved are in grave danger.
If protecting my own people means protecting Amarrians now, and attempting to free my people from their chains later then I think that is something that is good. Removing the chains from my enslaved brothers and sisters won't mean much if they are dead. We need to be willing to set our egos aside and use our power responsibly so that we can become the leaders our peoples deserve. |
Deitra Vess
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
617
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 22:38:16 -
[93] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Three days, Khanid stood alone and in three days, I *think* we've managed to take care of the situation. Three days of floating in a zero-g graveyard of Armageddons and Augerors while people sat back in their comfy staterooms doing risk assessments and opining like this was a gravball game because Khanid is too far and here be pirates and Providence is burning and there's a party in Matari and it's just not my problem. And you're right. It wasn't your problem. It was Khanid's. We dealt. The Empire stepped up and followed the treaties they have with us and we delt. CONCORD? Nowhere to be seen. Just an incursion alert and and an estimate of how many goodies you might earn with the Empire.
Nice job, I'm sincerely glad you have made progress in pushing them back. It is pretty disgusting how little Concord cares (Yes I don't like them because they shoot at me as my primary reason). My only question is since quite obviously Amarr has burned too many bridges what would you think the Khanid have to offer willingly to those among us who demand something? I don't count myself as among them, but would rather not have my homecoming greeted with barrage rounds. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1100
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 23:02:35 -
[94] - Quote
Avio Yaken wrote:I ask if it would be possible if the four empires would be willing to stop tossing more and more resources at theses pointless war-zones against each other and perhaps have a temporary truce to deal with this devastating force before it gets out of hand..THEN we can go back to killing each other. Msr. Yaken.
Thank you for your this thoughtful contribution to IGS.
After do consideration I regretfully submit my answer.
No....
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Sinjin Mokk
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
621
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 00:13:30 -
[95] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Three days, Khanid stood alone and in three days, I *think* we've managed to take care of the situation. Three days of floating in a zero-g graveyard of Armageddons and Augerors while people sat back in their comfy staterooms doing risk assessments and opining like this was a gravball game because Khanid is too far and here be pirates and Providence is burning and there's a party in Matari and it's just not my problem. And you're right. It wasn't your problem. It was Khanid's. We dealt. The Empire stepped up and followed the treaties they have with us and we delt. CONCORD? Nowhere to be seen. Just an incursion alert and and an estimate of how many goodies you might earn with the Empire.
Nice job, I'm sincerely glad you have made progress in pushing them back. It is pretty disgusting how little Concord cares (Yes I don't like them because they shoot at me as my primary reason). My only question is since quite obviously Amarr has burned too many bridges what would you think the Khanid have to offer willingly to those among us who demand something? I don't count myself as among them, but would rather not have my homecoming greeted with barrage rounds.
Thank you,
As it stands now, we're offering whatever bounty the Empire and CONCORD are offering. Standard lwas regarding security status apply, but about half of Khanid is LoSec, so that shouldn't matter too much. This may change, depending on further action. For those who fight here and see Khanid for the gem it is, there would probably be the offer of citizenship and the ability to start or move a corporation here, start a colony here. Take a look at close our ties with the State have been and you'll clearly see the benefit of working for the Kingdom.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Sinjin Mokk
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
621
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 00:18:26 -
[96] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Sinjin Mokk wrote:Three days of floating in a zero-g graveyard of Armageddons and Augerors while people sat back in their comfy staterooms doing risk assessments and opining like this was a gravball game because Khanid is too far and here be pirates and Providence is burning and there's a party in Matari and it's just not my problem.
I do appreciate your frustration, Mr. Mokk. Providence will, at this rate, take us longer than our frankly ridiculously optimistic public estimates - but that's propaganda for you. By our internal estimates... we're actually ahead of our timetable, and adjusting to the new realities of war. It's my sincere hope that we'll be able to render assistance in the near future. That said, we are also fully expecting to be fired upon by the people we'd be assisting, and while I personally will be counseling restraint, I can't guarantee my FC will listen to me. If we turn up, at least until a working relationship with our Incursion team can be established, my advice is: get out of the way and let the Drifters whittle us down.
Those estimates always fall short. It's a part of war. Providence isn't Amarr. Do what you need to do there and I'm sure there will still be plenty of Drifters to go around after. Have your people contact the Royal Khanid Capsuleer Council and we can talk further. Staying out of the way while someone else does the fighting isn't really our style.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
|
Anise Tig'res
Duchy Ministry of Slave Affairs
28
|
Posted - 2015.08.30 05:00:57 -
[97] - Quote
Avio Yaken wrote:Hi..I'm not the best at this "serious discussion" stuff on the IGS but...I'm willing to try..
Ladies and gentlemen, the Drifters have proven themselves as a serious threat not to be taken lightly, currently the fight in Khanid space is going horribly for the Kingdom as control over the constellation has not budged...Well..they managed to claim 5% of the constellation before losing it to the drifters as of this morning...
As a mercenary its rather hypocritical of me to ask for some kind of cease fire between factions, but this threat is obviously nothing we have ever faced before.
I ask if it would be possible if the four empires would be willing to stop tossing more and more resources at theses pointless war-zones against each other and perhaps have a temporary truce to deal with this devastating force before it gets out of hand..THEN we can go back to killing each other
If the drifters manage to take out the largest nation in the entire cluster...Whats to say the State might last on its own..or the Republic..Or even the Federation...Alone we can lethal sure..But as a team we can dominate this foe quickly
Years ago the empires combined forces in order to fight off Sansha's nation. Why can't we do that again here and now against a more pressing enemy that can very well threaten the entirety of the cluster more than the Nation ever could..
And i don't think i need to remind you of the Empress....How she was obliterated in a matter of seconds in the HQ of the same Amarr Navy thats suppose to be fighting back theses damn things, they are not mindless drones, they are adaptive and resourceful and have tech that is far superior to our own.
We don't have to be friends forever..Just a temporary truce to deal with this cancer that we can quickly remove before it becomes fatal.
I fought at Sarum prime during that rally...I lost people close to me that day, i witnessed their power firsthand and I'm willing to not fight in this war as a mercenary, but a soldier to stop this madness
Besides...i can't even be a mercenary if the Drifters wipe everyone out...
Obviously not. The filthy behavior of other factions is clearly proof that we mustn't ally with the Gallente and Minmatar in order to stop the constant abduction of our citizens and the mass incursions of enemy aggressors the entire world seems to be completely fine with pretending don't exist.
...And as soon as I can figure out just what that filthy behavior is, I'll be sure to let everyone know... |
Deitra Vess
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
619
|
Posted - 2015.08.30 05:26:00 -
[98] - Quote
Anise Tig'res wrote:Avio Yaken wrote:Hi..I'm not the best at this "serious discussion" stuff on the IGS but...I'm willing to try..
Ladies and gentlemen, the Drifters have proven themselves as a serious threat not to be taken lightly, currently the fight in Khanid space is going horribly for the Kingdom as control over the constellation has not budged...Well..they managed to claim 5% of the constellation before losing it to the drifters as of this morning...
As a mercenary its rather hypocritical of me to ask for some kind of cease fire between factions, but this threat is obviously nothing we have ever faced before.
I ask if it would be possible if the four empires would be willing to stop tossing more and more resources at theses pointless war-zones against each other and perhaps have a temporary truce to deal with this devastating force before it gets out of hand..THEN we can go back to killing each other
If the drifters manage to take out the largest nation in the entire cluster...Whats to say the State might last on its own..or the Republic..Or even the Federation...Alone we can lethal sure..But as a team we can dominate this foe quickly
Years ago the empires combined forces in order to fight off Sansha's nation. Why can't we do that again here and now against a more pressing enemy that can very well threaten the entirety of the cluster more than the Nation ever could..
And i don't think i need to remind you of the Empress....How she was obliterated in a matter of seconds in the HQ of the same Amarr Navy thats suppose to be fighting back theses damn things, they are not mindless drones, they are adaptive and resourceful and have tech that is far superior to our own.
We don't have to be friends forever..Just a temporary truce to deal with this cancer that we can quickly remove before it becomes fatal.
I fought at Sarum prime during that rally...I lost people close to me that day, i witnessed their power firsthand and I'm willing to not fight in this war as a mercenary, but a soldier to stop this madness
Besides...i can't even be a mercenary if the Drifters wipe everyone out... Obviously not. The filthy behavior of other factions is clearly proof that we mustn't ally with the Gallente and Minmatar in order to stop the constant abduction of our citizens and the mass incursions of enemy aggressors the entire world seems to be completely fine with pretending don't exist....And as soon as I can figure out just what that filthy behavior is, I'll be sure to let everyone know... That or those who are of those groups fear retribution from their own even if they see such issues as a threat cluster wide... Facing your own as a result of trying to protect everyone is a hard pill to swallow, and I doubt many will do so willingly...
|
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1642
|
Posted - 2015.08.30 12:04:13 -
[99] - Quote
I've lost track of this over the last few days so just to be clear: Were the Drifters only targeting military assets or were they engaged in total war against civilians and non-military assets? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1984
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 05:36:06 -
[100] - Quote
I completely agree with Lt. Kernher that CONCORD has failed its purpose. It must be reassembled and refactored, but this time - without Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic. They are the troublemakers and ballast that civilized society doesn't need.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1463
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 14:59:03 -
[101] - Quote
*sigh*
So much hate weighing down that potential of yours, Kimmy. It's pitiful, really....... and tiresome.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1986
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 16:57:35 -
[102] - Quote
If I would need an opinion of a forum clown about me, I'd invite Ixiris to conversation, not you, Osyn.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1463
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 20:43:15 -
[103] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:If I would need an opinion of a forum clown about me, I'd invite Ixiris to conversation, not you, Osyn. Ixiris? Somehow I doubt that he would waste his time conversing with the likes of you. My standards are lower, take what attention you can get, Kimmy.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
iyammarrok
Virtually Anonymous Milk Of The Poppy
411
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 21:20:57 -
[104] - Quote
Claudia, ignore the petulant child. if she stops getting a response, she will become a mere memory, and one that is easily dismissed.
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1464
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 22:16:17 -
[105] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:Claudia, ignore the petulant child. if she stops getting a response, she will become a mere memory, and one that is easily dismissed. I think it would be better to keep her around, actually. She serves as a shining example of how behavior and consequence works for capsuleers new to the IGS..... And she won't go away even if I did ignore her. She's woefully, um...... consistent?.....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1987
|
Posted - 2015.09.04 23:44:31 -
[106] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:If I would need an opinion of a forum clown about me, I'd invite Ixiris to conversation, not you, Osyn. Ixiris? Somehow I doubt that he would waste his time conversing with the likes of you. My standards are lower, take what attention you can get, Kimmy. Word "standards" isn't compatible with both your name and his. Sorry. Move along.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1466
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 02:07:02 -
[107] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:If I would need an opinion of a forum clown about me, I'd invite Ixiris to conversation, not you, Osyn. Ixiris? Somehow I doubt that he would waste his time conversing with the likes of you. My standards are lower, take what attention you can get, Kimmy. Word "standards" isn't compatible with both your name and his. Sorry. Move along. *Takes a sip of coffee* Mm hmm, that's nice. Shame your opinion carrys about the same weight as miss Funk's, people might have been lead to believe that.....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1987
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 03:27:54 -
[108] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote: *Takes a sip of coffee* Mm hmm, that's nice. Shame your opinion carrys about the same weight as miss Funk's, people might have been lead to believe that.....
Oh, now you show your ignorance about value of my opinions. How droll. On other hand, couldn't expect anything more from you anyway.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Markus Error
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 14:52:58 -
[109] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: *Takes a sip of coffee* Mm hmm, that's nice. Shame your opinion carrys about the same weight as miss Funk's, people might have been lead to believe that.....
Oh, now you show your ignorance about value of my opinions. How droll. On other hand, couldn't expect anything more from you anyway. You heard it here, folks. Diana Kim has the most valued opinions in the State.
Hey.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1403
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 15:00:18 -
[110] - Quote
-1 is still a value. |
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1466
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 21:17:59 -
[111] - Quote
Markus Error wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: *Takes a sip of coffee* Mm hmm, that's nice. Shame your opinion carrys about the same weight as miss Funk's, people might have been lead to believe that.....
Oh, now you show your ignorance about value of my opinions. How droll. On other hand, couldn't expect anything more from you anyway. You heard it here, folks. Diana Kim has the most valued opinions in the State. Nay, the in the cluster!
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1988
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 21:55:38 -
[112] - Quote
I wonder when a meaningful reply will appear in this discussion, all these forum trolls trying to divert discussion from the topic to me is becoming boring.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 22:56:43 -
[113] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:I wonder when a meaningful reply will appear in this discussion, all these forum trolls trying to divert discussion from the topic to me is becoming boring.
Fine.
The answer is, "no."
And that ain't bad.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1468
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 02:35:06 -
[114] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:I wonder when a meaningful reply will appear in this discussion, all these forum trolls trying to divert discussion from the topic to me is becoming boring. The OP'S question was answered quite definitively within the first page. You are the one who derailed the thread with your anti-Gallente propaganda. Now I'm derailing your derailment..... Derailment-ception....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1988
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:09:27 -
[115] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:I wonder when a meaningful reply will appear in this discussion, all these forum trolls trying to divert discussion from the topic to me is becoming boring. The OP'S question was answered quite definitively within the first page. You are the one who derailed the thread with your anti-Gallente propaganda. Now I'm derailing your derailment..... Derailment-ception.... I knew gallenteans are dumb. But to that degree?...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
282
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:33:49 -
[116] - Quote
This thread is into structure...will reps land in time? |
Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:01:09 -
[117] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:This thread is into structure...will reps land in time?
Let it die.
Let the governments die.
We're evolving past the need for large government systems.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥
|
Markus Error
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
78
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:13:09 -
[118] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:This thread is into structure...will reps land in time? Let it die. Let the governments die. We're evolving past the need for large government systems. Well, empyreans are, perhaps, but baseliners?
As for the thread, it'll either hull tank or die. Either should be amusing.
Hey.
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2376
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:21:24 -
[119] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Let it die.
Let the governments die.
We're evolving past the need for large government systems.
Devolving.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2134
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:43:17 -
[120] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:This thread is into structure...will reps land in time?
i Structure tank sometimes
(.___________________________________________.)/
|
|
Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1543
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:55:52 -
[121] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Let it die.
Let the governments die.
We're evolving past the need for large government systems.
Even if you think of us as somehow separate, Mr. Moray, we are children of technology, and dependent on logistical networks we barely even see.
A dark age would not be kind to us. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1408
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 15:59:08 -
[122] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:We're evolving past the need for large government systems.
Sentiments like this never cease to amaze me. We literally reached a point early last year where millions of people died in a single system, in a single day, because someone forgot to pay CONCORD for the privilege of having their name on a ledger next to a system CONCORD will never set foot in.
And you call this 'evolving'?
|
Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 00:09:43 -
[123] - Quote
Take a look out in Venal, in Curse, anywhere in Null.
All people make societies. But out in Null, it's an organic process. Look at how quick things got set up in Thera.
Social evolution.
Systems made by the people, for the people. Not based solely on might or money. Not based on race or lineage.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1470
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 00:29:54 -
[124] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:This thread is into structure...will reps land in time? Real threads hull tank
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1470
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 00:31:38 -
[125] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Take a look out in Venal, in Curse, anywhere in Null.
All people make societies. But out in Null, it's an organic process. Look at how quick things got set up in Thera.
Social evolution.
Systems made by the people, for the people. Not based solely on might or money. Not based on race or lineage.
Still haven't been there, I hear Thera is lovely this time of year. I really should make a point to go....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1411
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 03:54:12 -
[126] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Take a look out in Venal, in Curse, anywhere in Null.
All people make societies. But out in Null, it's an organic process. Look at how quick things got set up in Thera.
Social evolution.
Systems made by the people, for the people. Not based solely on might or money. Not based on race or lineage.
Please, please tell me this was directed at least in part to me. Tell me how much I should look at Null, and revise my opinions. Tell me how little I understand of society there.
Then take a moment and consider who the frell you're talking to. |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
593
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 10:55:18 -
[127] - Quote
Truce?
The Big Four haven't made one when Kuvakei attacked; I don't think much has changed in the last 5 years, politics wise at least. The Four are none the wiser or stronger and CONCORD is still a farce, as it's always been.
Rook Moray wrote: Systems made by the people, for the people. Not based solely on might or money. Not based on race or lineage.
To survive in a harsh context, one has to make appropriate social constructs.
It does have a certain beauty to it, but it's simple survival, really.
- Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim
Angels are never far...
Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1988
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 11:37:35 -
[128] - Quote
Farce indeed, Mr. Caine. After YC110 tribal attack on Yulai they still allow republic to stay there.
Don't they have pride?! Disgusting.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2377
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 11:56:36 -
[129] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Take a look out in Venal, in Curse, anywhere in Null.
All people make societies. But out in Null, it's an organic process. Look at how quick things got set up in Thera.
Social evolution.
Systems made by the people, for the people. Not based solely on might or money. Not based on race or lineage.
Nullsec governments are the definition of being set up solely on the basis of might and money. They are dog-eat-dog societies, survival of the fittest. The evolution of civilization isn't important, the development of culture and science isn't important.
Societies growing according to "organic processes" dwell in egotism and hedonism. They provide no benefit to the spiritual and cultural development of humanity.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 14:24:58 -
[130] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Rook Moray wrote:Take a look out in Venal, in Curse, anywhere in Null.
All people make societies. But out in Null, it's an organic process. Look at how quick things got set up in Thera.
Social evolution.
Systems made by the people, for the people. Not based solely on might or money. Not based on race or lineage.
Please, please tell me this was directed at least in part to me. Tell me how much I should look at Null, and revise my opinions. Tell me how little I understand of society there. Then take a moment and consider who the frell you're talking to.
Of course it was directed, in part, to you.
Like anyone, your perceptions are based on your experience.
I don't say anyone needs to revise their opinions based on words. I suggest there's more than one path to understanding.
We're teachers as much as students.
I wouldn't suggest you take a fresh look at Null if I wasn't willing to see it through your eyes as well.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥
|
|
Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 14:29:01 -
[131] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:
Nullsec governments are the definition of being set up solely on the basis of might and money. They are dog-eat-dog societies, survival of the fittest. The evolution of civilization isn't important, the development of culture and science isn't important.
Societies growing according to "organic processes" dwell in egotism and hedonism. They provide no benefit to the spiritual and cultural development of humanity.
Perhaps...
But the same can be said equally about the systems of "government" that are already in place.
I propose a change.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1412
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 17:21:18 -
[132] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Like anyone, your perceptions are based on your experience.
I don't say anyone needs to revise their opinions based on words. I suggest there's more than one path to understanding.
We're teachers as much as students.
I wouldn't suggest you take a fresh look at Null if I wasn't willing to see it through your eyes as well.
Indeed, they are. And I find it hilarious that you're going to try to teach me about our societies in Null. No, we're not only built on 'might or money', but there is no way around the simple fact that might and money, tightly intertwined, form a large part of not only the foundations of modern nullsec societies, but also form much of their structure as well. The pursuit of it, the accumulation of it, the completely discretionary wielding of it...
Power, be it economic, political, or military - and in the end, the distinctions between them are highly blurred - is at the very heart of who we are.
And I think if you speak with Ayallah, you'll find much the same attitude among the Therabois: We do what we want, because we can. And that, sir, is all about the power. That said...
Samira Kernher wrote: They are dog-eat-dog societies, survival of the fittest.
You're wrong on this one, Lieutenant. Our societies are in competition with one another, and perhaps some of the less successful ones out here have been truly dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest, as you say... but the successful ones? No. The successful ones emphasize watching out for one another, putting the needs of the group above your personal impulses - because through the group, you are empowered to act on your impulses, but cut off from us, the individual becomes largely ineffective.
We are brutal and savage externally... internally... we're more like an extended family that plays a bit rough, sometimes, but watches out for one another. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2377
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 18:00:19 -
[133] - Quote
That's still dog-eat-dog. It's just on the level of packs and tribes. Gang warfare.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
|
Constantin Makanen
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 18:31:22 -
[134] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:If the Amarr Empire wishes to survive the price for Tribal intervention should be as follows:
......
This is just a draft but tell me, does that sound reasonable for the aid of those The Empire has been trying to persecute and ahnilalate for centuries?
Somebody badly missed the point of the proposal. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1413
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:23:30 -
[135] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:That's still dog-eat-dog. It's just on the level of packs and tribes. Gang warfare.
Which is different from the four Empires how? Internal cooperation, external enemies.
We simply call our Caldari State 'Tactical Narcotics Team'... |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5560
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:31:35 -
[136] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:
Nullsec governments are the definition of being set up solely on the basis of might and money. They are dog-eat-dog societies, survival of the fittest. The evolution of civilization isn't important, the development of culture and science isn't important.
Societies growing according to "organic processes" dwell in egotism and hedonism. They provide no benefit to the spiritual and cultural development of humanity.
Perhaps... But the same can be said equally about the systems of "government" that are already in place. I propose a change.
Now all you need to do is to get tens of trillions of people to sign up to your little experiment and to give it life for a couple of centuries. Bonne chance, mon ami!
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 16:47:13 -
[137] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Now all you need to do is to get tens of trillions of people to sign up to your little experiment and to give it life for a couple of centuries. Bonne chance, mon ami!
Merci!
There's already lots of people in Null. They just got to get to making babies, it's only a matter of time.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5562
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 17:00:29 -
[138] - Quote
Unless you get in the way of the Swarm and they glass your worlds. Or something else happens - like the political landscape changes and all the capsuleer support dries up and blows away and the investment stops.
Well. We shall see in good time. 200 years isn't even all that long for one of us, perhaps we'll be there to see it happen?
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1414
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 19:15:37 -
[139] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Unless you get in the way of the Swarm and they glass your worlds.
We do not make war upon civilian planetary populations. We leave that sort of genocide to the 'civilized'. |
iyammarrok
Virtually Anonymous Milk Of The Poppy
412
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 08:40:15 -
[140] - Quote
in answer to the OP. Is it possible? Yes. historical evidence shows that it is in fact possible. Is it likely? No. The age of the capsuleer has sown a lot of strife amongst the stars, and it has only just begun. (not only that, but we make a handy meatshield and axe combination, able to bear the brunt of many assaults and also be the weapon of our empires, what need have they of uniting, when a tiny number of us can do the work of entire navies?)
political logic is rarely logical.
-Idama Tertianus Rethelior
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
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Praezius Vheruk
Gozantii Industries
638
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:16:15 -
[141] - Quote
Consid'ren, as pirate, tae a notter pirate; nae. 'De 'mpires're as li'ely tae bae comin' tae mutual end't's ye an't I 're tae claimin' aorse'fs blood bruddas fer 'de sake o'de li'l ma'.
Ye're stirrin' a po' tae see 'de 'ornets buzz, an't watch 'dem growin' angrier. 'De Drifters bae a t'reat, yea. We's all n'greement wi'da. Bu' 'till 'dey fin't wot levels o'ceptance fer each otter 'dat spurs each o'us tae live fi'ty systems 'part, 'dey ain't gon' ban't tae getter.
Ye're betteren off tae bae ast'in a La' tae lift'er blouse fer ye, mate.
Leas'ways 'den ye migh'en gae n'answer wot's wort' readin'.
Sinc'rely,
Praezius Vheruk |
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Angry Mustellid
285
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:24:10 -
[142] - Quote
Praezius Vheruk wrote:Consid'ren, as pirate, tae a notter pirate; nae. 'De 'mpires're as li'ely tae bae comin' tae mutual end't's ye an't I 're tae claimin' aorse'fs blood bruddas fer 'de sake o'de li'l ma'.
Ye're stirrin' a po' tae see 'de 'ornets buzz, an't watch 'dem growin' angrier. 'De Drifters bae a t'reat, yea. We's all n'greement wi'da. Bu' 'till 'dey fin't wot levels o'ceptance fer each otter 'dat spurs each o'us tae live fi'ty systems 'part, 'dey ain't gon' ban't tae getter.
Ye're betteren off tae bae ast'in a La' tae lift'er blouse fer ye, mate.
Leas'ways 'den ye migh'en gae n'answer wot's wort' readin'.
Sinc'rely,
Praezius Vheruk
Please tell you are an FC. Those coms must be brilliant!
Praezius "Al'n te de ou gate, worp I tree, tu, on. Ump e conact!"
Fleet member 1 "Did he say jump?"
Fleet member 2 "You got as far as jump?!?"
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1671
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:27:48 -
[143] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:Praezius Vheruk wrote:Consid'ren, as pirate, tae a notter pirate; nae. 'De 'mpires're as li'ely tae bae comin' tae mutual end't's ye an't I 're tae claimin' aorse'fs blood bruddas fer 'de sake o'de li'l ma'.
Ye're stirrin' a po' tae see 'de 'ornets buzz, an't watch 'dem growin' angrier. 'De Drifters bae a t'reat, yea. We's all n'greement wi'da. Bu' 'till 'dey fin't wot levels o'ceptance fer each otter 'dat spurs each o'us tae live fi'ty systems 'part, 'dey ain't gon' ban't tae getter.
Ye're betteren off tae bae ast'in a La' tae lift'er blouse fer ye, mate.
Leas'ways 'den ye migh'en gae n'answer wot's wort' readin'.
Sinc'rely,
Praezius Vheruk Please tell you are an FC. Those coms must be brilliant! Praezius "Al'n te de ou gate, worp I tree, tu, on. Ump e conact!" Fleet member 1 "Did he say jump?" Fleet member 2 "You got as far as jump?!?"
Fleet member 3: My auto-transalator says he wants a frog for his birthday?... |
Praezius Vheruk
Gozantii Industries
640
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:29:48 -
[144] - Quote
Ayuh; 'da'sa bae....
"Tae dae ga'e; o't'ree, tae, one.... naow!"
'Das nae ba't, bu' ye're nae usin' yer gutt'rals. Nes' ti'e, ac' li'e yer chokin' o'laughin' an't chicken, an't ye'll bae startin' daon 'de righ' roa't. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1671
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:36:26 -
[145] - Quote
Praezius Vheruk wrote:Ayuh; 'da'sa bae....
"Tae dae ga'e; o't'ree, tae, one.... naow!"
'Das nae ba't, bu' ye're nae usin' yer gutt'rals. Nes' ti'e, ac' li'e yer chokin' o'laughin' an't chicken, an't ye'll bae startin' daon 'de righ' roa't.
I got chokin' and chicken....I am flat out *not* putting that sentence through my translator... |
Praezius Vheruk
Gozantii Industries
640
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:38:59 -
[146] - Quote
Bu' 'dem folk wots flyin' wi'me; 'dey's swifter o'de uptake'n ye folk. 'Dey been rollin' wi'me fer long'n 'nough a ti'e tae'ave ma'e sense o'me dialect.
Ye wantin' a notter perfect GQ? Gae loo' 'n a mirror. Nae tae me. I's nae 'da gentle.
Peace tae ye.
Praez |
Markus Error
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
79
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 13:06:16 -
[147] - Quote
Translation for ye lads 'n' lasses who are accent-impaired;
"But them folk who're flying with me; they're swifter on the uptake than you folk. They've been rolling with me long enough to have made sense of my dialect.
You're wanting another perfect GQ? Go look in the mirror, not to me. I'm not that gentle.
Peace to you."
Hm. Like listening to grandad after a few drinks.
Hey.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1673
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:21:20 -
[148] - Quote
Markus Error wrote:Translation for ye lads 'n' lasses who are accent-impaired;
"But them folk who're flying with me; they're swifter on the uptake than you folk. They've been rolling with me long enough to have made sense of my dialect.
You're wanting another perfect GQ? Go look in the mirror, not to me. I'm not that gentle.
Peace to you."
Hm. Like listening to grandad after a few drinks.
Drinking makes you here people in an odd dialect? That's novel... |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5562
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:26:17 -
[149] - Quote
Hooray for standardised language - although, you know, Forge region dialects and all...
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Rook Moray
Aliastra Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:56:41 -
[150] - Quote
Wah gwan
Can mi bring fi mi drake?
Mi am ah shoota!
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥
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Praezius Vheruk
Gozantii Industries
687
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:04:33 -
[151] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Markus Error wrote:Translation for ye lads 'n' lasses who are accent-impaired;
"But them folk who're flying with me; they're swifter on the uptake than you folk. They've been rolling with me long enough to have made sense of my dialect.
You're wanting another perfect GQ? Go look in the mirror, not to me. I'm not that gentle.
Peace to you."
Hm. Like listening to grandad after a few drinks. Drinking makes you here people in an odd dialect? That's novel...
'Oly Sheet 'dat 's novel....
~cracks up laughing~ |
Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 04:40:28 -
[152] - Quote
The benefits of helping Amarr: #1 Their gratitude, #2 Mutually assured survival of the Drifter invasion. Amarr can add incentives, of course, but having the gratitude of an entire nation is not a benefit to be overlooked. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2005
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 11:10:49 -
[153] - Quote
NAPANII, MOTHER*censored*, DO YOU SPEAK IT?!
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Svetlana Laknaya
Khushakor Clan Matari Safari
70
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 12:29:57 -
[154] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:The benefits of helping Amarr: #1 Their gratitude, #2 Mutually assured survival of the Drifter invasion. Amarr can add incentives, of course, but having the gratitude of an entire nation is not a benefit to be overlooked. I consider myself a pragmatic woman but, I having trouble seeing what the Empire's Gratitude will to for the Republic. The reality is they have an economic model that antagonizes the republic. Gratitude is unlikely to accomplish the requisite change in ecnomic model, so what would it accomplish? I am not being sarcastic, I am actually interested in where said gratitude could lead us. |
Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 13:28:18 -
[155] - Quote
Svetlana Laknaya wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote:The benefits of helping Amarr: #1 Their gratitude, #2 Mutually assured survival of the Drifter invasion. Amarr can add incentives, of course, but having the gratitude of an entire nation is not a benefit to be overlooked. I consider myself a pragmatic woman but, I having trouble seeing what the Empire's Gratitude will to for the Republic. The reality is they have an economic model that antagonizes the republic. Gratitude is unlikely to accomplish the requisite change in ecnomic model, so what would it accomplish? I am not being sarcastic, I am actually interested in where said gratitude could lead us.
Well I personally think that if you do someone a favour, they may be inclined to do one for you. Even if you are mortal enemies.
There are Amarrians who sympathize with the way their slaves(who are not all Minmatar, I don't think, though the majority is Minmatar) are treated, and there are Amarrians who disagree with the slavery model.
Those who represent and support the Republic on the diplomatic side of the table know that Amarr as a whole cannot be forced to change their slave-driving ways, however much fighting is done to free slaves. Nevertheless, with a situation like the Drifter invasion, where the very livelihood of the Empire(and quite possibly all of New Eden) could be put into question, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the Amarr may be willing to negotiate on some level if we help and support them in their time of dire need.
There is an old tale passed down from my family in which two men were on opposing sides of a great feud between cultures. They, at some point, found themselves locked in a fight near the top of a large mountain. The fighting was fierce, and near the end of it one of them lost his footing, stumbled and nearly fell off of a cliff, clinging for life. In that moment, the other man had to make a decision: to step on his enemy's hand and assure victory, letting him fall onto the rocks below, or help him up and risk defeat. He chose to reach for his enemy's hand and pull him up.
He and his enemy left the mountain alive. And while they still didn't like each other, they chose to fight another day. The feud didn't end there, but down the line it was a moment, a bargaining chip, used to break the cycle of hatred and slaughter at an individual level, and turn people on both sides away from the madness.
Helping Amarr may not immediately solve the issue of slavery or discontent between our people. I'm not expecting a truce.
But it may help open the door a bit wider for future discussion, future dealings. Never let a good crisis go to waste. And we can show Amarr that our brothers and sisters can be dignified, heroic, merciful and virtuous, even if it's easier to let them die at the hands of these dreadful things. |
Skyweir Kinnison
Federal Museum Ethnological Acquisitions
84
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 14:13:19 -
[156] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:There is an old tale passed down from my family in which two men were on opposing sides of a great feud between cultures. They, at some point, found themselves locked in a fight near the top of a large mountain. The fighting was fierce, and near the end of it one of them lost his footing, stumbled and nearly fell off of a cliff, clinging for life. In that moment, the other man had to make a decision: to step on his enemy's hand and assure victory, letting him fall onto the rocks below, or help him up and risk defeat. He chose to reach for his enemy's hand and pull him up.
He and his enemy left the mountain alive. And while they still didn't like each other, they chose to fight another day. The feud didn't end there, but down the line it was a moment, a bargaining chip, used to break the cycle of hatred and slaughter at an individual level, and turn people on both sides away from the madness.
That morality tale is common, but in different versions.
In the Amarr story, the first man considered himself the victor, pulled his enemy up from the precipice and then enslaved him, making sure he was whipped several times a day in order to remember his servitude and accept that it was really God who saved him.
In the Minmatar version, the first man stamped repeatedly on the fingers his enemy clinging on, till he fell to his death. He kept stamping and stamping anyway, still stamping tirelessly on the bloody smudge that was all that remained, a week later.
These are peoples who are the very definition of implacable enemies.
Any alliance to defeat the Drifters will be formed between the Federation and the Empire, and for eminently practical reasons that benefit both sides, as befits the two cluster superpowers. Gratitude will have no part of it. The Caldari megacorporations will join or not as they consider their own interests.
The Tribal Oligarchy will hate everyone from the sidelines as usual whilst scheming to stab Amarr in the back the moment an opportunity arises.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2009
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 15:04:18 -
[157] - Quote
Svetlana Laknaya wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote:The benefits of helping Amarr: #1 Their gratitude, #2 Mutually assured survival of the Drifter invasion. Amarr can add incentives, of course, but having the gratitude of an entire nation is not a benefit to be overlooked. I consider myself a pragmatic woman but, I having trouble seeing what the Empire's Gratitude will to for the Republic. The reality is they have an economic model that antagonizes the republic. Gratitude is unlikely to accomplish the requisite change in ecnomic model, so what would it accomplish? I am not being sarcastic, I am actually interested in where said gratitude could lead us. Empire's gratitude is not wiping yet Republic from existence completely. And that's what these minmatar swines, who were celebrating death of Her Majesty - the person who released more slave than anyone else, should learn. The Amarr empire is truly gratuitous. Even after such lack of gratitude and humanity by minmatars they still let the Republic live. Truly iron will.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2009
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 15:18:05 -
[158] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote:There is an old tale passed down from my family in which two men were on opposing sides of a great feud between cultures. They, at some point, found themselves locked in a fight near the top of a large mountain. The fighting was fierce, and near the end of it one of them lost his footing, stumbled and nearly fell off of a cliff, clinging for life. In that moment, the other man had to make a decision: to step on his enemy's hand and assure victory, letting him fall onto the rocks below, or help him up and risk defeat. He chose to reach for his enemy's hand and pull him up.
He and his enemy left the mountain alive. And while they still didn't like each other, they chose to fight another day. The feud didn't end there, but down the line it was a moment, a bargaining chip, used to break the cycle of hatred and slaughter at an individual level, and turn people on both sides away from the madness.
That morality tale is common, but in different versions. In the Amarr story, the first man considered himself the victor, pulled his enemy up from the precipice and then enslaved him, making sure he was whipped several times a day in order to remember his servitude and accept that it was really God who saved him. In the Minmatar version, the first man stamped repeatedly on the fingers his enemy clinging on, till he fell to his death. He kept stamping and stamping anyway, still stamping tirelessly on the bloody smudge that was all that remained, a week later. These are peoples who are the very definition of implacable enemies. Any alliance to defeat the Drifters will be formed between the Federation and the Empire, and for eminently practical reasons that benefit both sides, as befits the two cluster superpowers. Gratitude will have no part of it. The Caldari megacorporations will join or not as they consider their own interests. The Tribal Oligarchy will hate everyone from the sidelines as usual whilst scheming to stab Amarr in the back the moment an opportunity arises. Oh, no no. This is impossible scenario. Well, provided the Amarr Empire is smart enough to learn on our mistakes, should Federation actually offer their hand.
The Gallente Federation is known for their bigotry and intolerance towards slavery, as also their brainwashing in ideals of "freedoms" (the words gallente use for chaos) and "democracy", and even hedonism and individualism. They accept these ideals with closed eyes and mind, without understanding and analyzing them, like axioms. And what is worse, they consider them "good" ideals and enforce them onto others.
Shortly, it can be summarized that both Republic and Federation are unhappy with Amarr internal affairs, that shouldn't bother anyone except Amarr. But this is the way of things: both Republic and Federation are both ideological and military agressors, while Empire and the State just defend their ways to live, their property and population from foreign agressors.
And if minmatars in their bigotry against slavery are primitively and stupidly agressive, Federation's way is not as straighforward: they are cunning, lying, betraying and coward. If minmatar crazy terrorist would jump on your chest with yell: "DIE, SLAVER SCUM" and will start stabbing repeatedly in primal mindless rage, gallentean would offer you hand with smile on his face. But when you will take gallenean hand, he will pull you closer and stab you with knife to your back. That's the way the nation of Noir Alexanders operate.
We have stepped on these "gallente" relations several times and got burnt by their treachery. Amarr Empire politicians aren't idiots to just ignore our mistakes to accept gallentean offers of "peace". And this is why the offered scenario is impossible.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Interstellar Survey and Security
637
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 15:31:34 -
[159] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
That morality tale is common, but in different versions.
In the Amarr story, the first man considered himself the victor, pulled his enemy up from the precipice and then enslaved him, making sure he was whipped several times a day in order to remember his servitude and accept that it was really God who saved him.
In the Minmatar version, the first man stamped repeatedly on the fingers his enemy clinging on, till he fell to his death. He kept stamping and stamping anyway, still stamping tirelessly on the bloody smudge that was all that remained, a week later.
These are peoples who are the very definition of implacable enemies.
Any alliance to defeat the Drifters will be formed between the Federation and the Empire, and for eminently practical reasons that benefit both sides, as befits the two cluster superpowers. Gratitude will have no part of it. The Caldari megacorporations will join or not as they consider their own interests.
The Tribal Oligarchy will hate everyone from the sidelines as usual whilst scheming to stab Amarr in the back the moment an opportunity arises.
Oh please.
It would be more accurate to say that in the Amarr version, the opponent was helped up, enslaved and Holder and servant together found God.
In the Khanid version, the opponent was helped up, the fight resumed and the Khanid flung the lifeless corpse of his opponent from the cliff.
One could say that in the Caldari version, the Caldari simply walked away, leaving his opponent to fend for himself.
One could also suggest that in the Gallente version, the opponent was helped up and the pair made tender love by the cliff side while they discussed how to best find the middle ground.
You are correct, I think in the Minmatar version, except the Minmatar kept stamping until the cliff side broke away and he too, plunged to his demise.
The Empire, Kingdom and State will remain allies. The State knows full well what we're facing and which power will bring ultimate victory. The Federation will fight hard, and may join with us to prevent their extinction. But the Republic will run, scatter and dissolve. Some Matari will find their way to us and we will fight gladly alongside them. But others will choose death at the hands of the Drifters. I look at this as a simple process of evolution. The Empire has not lasted as long as it has through blind luck. We adapt, we build, we overcome. People are quick to claim that the Empire lost to the Jove, lost to the forces that became the Republic. But where are the Jove now? How much of a threat is the Republic now? This will not be easy. God has set us a difficult task. But ultimately the Empire will prevail.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 20:13:32 -
[160] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
The Empire, Kingdom and State will remain allies. The State knows full well what we're facing and which power will bring ultimate victory. The Federation will fight hard, and may join with us to prevent their extinction. But the Republic will run, scatter and dissolve. Some Matari will find their way to us and we will fight gladly alongside them. But others will choose death at the hands of the Drifters.
Sure, fight and we may die. Run... and we'll live, for at least a while. But I, personally, cannot in good conscience allow the deaths of billions without a fight, and I would rather die a warrior's death side by side with like-minded people.
As long as Amarr is willing to accept help in these dark times, I will be there, and I hope to see some of you there as well. Perhaps, at the end of the day, we can find at least a few things in common. |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1431
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 21:08:43 -
[161] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:As long as Amarr is willing to accept help in these dark times, I will be there, and I hope to see some of you there as well. Perhaps, at the end of the day, we can find at least a few things in common.
My biggest concern is this: if non-Amarr pilots and capsuleers are instrumental in the survival of the Amarr Empire, then do the Amarr feel afterward that they owe those other nations and their people a debt, and make efforts to repay that debt, or do they feel that this is clear evidence that their culture and their faith have compelled the other empires and independents to come to their aid, and take it to mean they should double-down on their claims of superiority and push forward with aggressive Reclamation efforts?
I have a feeling it will be the latter. That aiding the Empire will only make the Empire decide that everyone knows their proper place is serving the needs of Amarr. Individuals may be grateful, but the Empire itself will see it only as due deference and implicit submission.
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.13 22:59:42 -
[162] - Quote
We can be explicit in that our efforts are purely humanitarian in nature. But I owe no allegiance to their government or their God. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1431
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 00:50:14 -
[163] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:We can be explicit in that our efforts are purely humanitarian in nature. But I owe no allegiance to their government or their God.
Mmhm. We can be as explicit as we like in explaining what they can still choose to see as rationalizations and denial of our true motives.
Humility is not in the Empire's nature. |
Hibou Heluene
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 01:32:38 -
[164] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:As long as Amarr is willing to accept help in these dark times, I will be there, and I hope to see some of you there as well. Perhaps, at the end of the day, we can find at least a few things in common. The civilians of Amarr - Holder, commoner, and slaves - have no choice in their involvement as bystanders. Make no mistake, the Drifters are the comeuppance of capsuleer arrogance and prosecution of violence in wormhole space, space to which capsuleers had no claim. That others must risk a grave price in the midst of Drifter vengeance is abhorrent, and capsuleers with a mote of decency would make aiding these civilians a top priority. I do not believe the Amarr will disservice their people by refusing such assistance. |
Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
618
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 02:16:57 -
[165] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Empire's gratitude is not wiping yet Republic from existence completely. And that's what these minmatar swines, who were celebrating death of Her Majesty - the person who released more slave than anyone else, should learn. The Amarr empire is truly gratuitous. Even after such lack of gratitude and humanity by minmatars they still let the Republic live. Truly iron will.
So, the same Gratitude the Gallente show you....
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2466
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 02:47:42 -
[166] - Quote
Hibou Heluene wrote: The civilians of Amarr - Holder, commoner, and slaves - have no choice in their involvement as bystanders. Make no mistake, the Drifters are the comeuppance of capsuleer arrogance and prosecution of violence in wormhole space, space to which capsuleers had no claim. That others must risk a grave price in the midst of Drifter vengeance is abhorrent, and capsuleers with a mote of decency would make aiding these civilians a top priority. I do not believe the Amarr will disservice their people by refusing such assistance.
Could you point me at some credible news reports, like.... say Scope reports perhaps, that actually show civilians are in any risk from the Drifters? The Drifters have only engaged capsuleer targets and Amarr Military targets as far as I have seen and found from investigating. They are not Sansha conducting planetary raiding. |
Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 03:13:15 -
[167] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Hibou Heluene wrote: The civilians of Amarr - Holder, commoner, and slaves - have no choice in their involvement as bystanders. Make no mistake, the Drifters are the comeuppance of capsuleer arrogance and prosecution of violence in wormhole space, space to which capsuleers had no claim. That others must risk a grave price in the midst of Drifter vengeance is abhorrent, and capsuleers with a mote of decency would make aiding these civilians a top priority. I do not believe the Amarr will disservice their people by refusing such assistance.
Could you point me at some credible news reports, like.... say Scope reports perhaps, that actually show civilians are in any risk from the Drifters? The Drifters have only engaged capsuleer targets and Amarr Military targets as far as I have seen and found from investigating. They are not Sansha conducting planetary raiding. I suppose that's a good point, but I don't see many other reasons for attacking a nation's military if not for conquest. Perhaps humiliation? But the Drifters have not explained themselves, nor are they interested in negotiating. What we have seen is a continuing trend of wanton aggression. |
Hibou Heluene
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 03:24:30 -
[168] - Quote
Non-combat vessels can carry civilian crews. If they are captained by capsuleers, those captains create the threat against their own crews by nature of what they are. The Drifters won't stop at civilian crews to get what they want, which sits in the pod. |
Alex II
Hoplite Brigade Hashashin Cartel
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:15:54 -
[169] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:If the Amarr Empire wishes to survive the price for Tribal intervention should be as follows:
......
This is just a draft but tell me, does that sound reasonable for the aid of those The Empire has been trying to persecute and ahnilalate for centuries? Somebody badly missed the point of the proposal.
The proposal was stillborn, dead on arrival.
Because somebody failed to recognize that forgiveness without repentance is simply not possible.
Rapprochement is possible, even desirable ....something worthy of great sacrifice to obtain.
Free the slaves....all of them. Every.....last .....one. |
Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 22:49:12 -
[170] - Quote
We cannot make radical demands until we give them a radical impression. Matari have been fighting Amarr for a long time. We have reasons to hate each other, but hatred will not lead to peace. War will beget more war. We can at least try to demonstrate mercy to break the cycle when the opportunity arises. |
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 03:33:42 -
[171] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:So, the same Gratitude the Gallente show you.... Gallenteans are liars and backstabbers, looking only to betray you, convert you to their filthy ideals and stop your progress out of envy and greed, forcing you into inefficient degradation akin to their crumbling Federation.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 03:44:38 -
[172] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:We cannot make radical demands until we give them a radical impression. Matari have been fighting Amarr for a long time. We have reasons to hate each other, but hatred will not lead to peace. War will beget more war. We can at least try to demonstrate mercy to break the cycle when the opportunity arises. I won't expect Amarr to compromise their entire stock of slaves, but at least if we were to help them, they would have a logical reason to negotiate SOMETHING. And if I'm wrong, and they break the trust, then they damn themselves. But we have to do this honestly and without malice. We have to be the better people Jamyl Sarum has shown mercy and even after tribals attacked core worlds and killed millions of innocent Amarr citizens, she has released whole generation of slaves.
What they got in return from tribals? Continued agression, terror and... they even rejoiced and celebrated Her Majesty's death.
Some things can be solved with mercy and generosity. Others require violence. Unfortunately, the violence and not the mercy is the language that tribals will understand.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Quattras Peione
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
149
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 03:45:05 -
[173] - Quote
Truce or no truce, I do believe the Emergency Militia War Powers Act is an obstruction to progress, not only to the peace process, but to the defense of the cluster at large. As long as it is more profitable in the short term to continue fighting than to seek a united sense of purpose, the war machine will continue grinding along. I had my legal team draft a proposal to CONCORD do have the act abolished, but the Peione Foundation (e.g. my father) has advised against pursuing such an agenda at this time.
Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione
No, I'm not that kind of doctor.
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Alex II
Hoplite Brigade Hashashin Cartel
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 04:14:25 -
[174] - Quote
Jamyl Sarum has shown mercy and even after tribals attacked core worlds and killed millions of innocent Amarr citizens, she has released whole generation of slaves.
What they got in return from tribals? Continued agression, terror and... they even rejoiced and celebrated Her Majesty's death.
Some things can be solved with mercy and generosity. Others require violence. Unfortunately, the violence and not the mercy is the language that tribals will understand.[/quote]
Correct.
15,000 (out of billions?) aged and infirm slaves released because their propaganda value, less the cost of transporting them, exceeded the cost of killing them and disposing of the bodies.
Whom do you believe you are fooling? The Witch is dead...and yes, I celebrate liberally. |
Viktor Revon
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 04:23:50 -
[175] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Tyrel Toov wrote:So, the same Gratitude the Gallente show you.... Gallenteans are liars and backstabbers, looking only to betray you, convert you to their filthy ideals and stop your progress out of envy and greed, forcing you into inefficient degradation akin to their crumbling Federation. They were to us, yes, and as a whole this can be true.
Although the Federation is not crumbling, as much as we both wish it would.
Individually, the Gallente choose their own place, am I not correct? They are not all monsters.
Those whom have murdered those I hold dear have created a madman, on a path for bloody vengeance, and one with nothing to lose, not even his life.
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Viktor Revon
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 04:32:25 -
[176] - Quote
Alex II wrote:Diana Kim wrote: Jamyl Sarum has shown mercy and even after tribals attacked core worlds and killed millions of innocent Amarr citizens, she has released whole generation of slaves.
What they got in return from tribals? Continued agression, terror and... they even rejoiced and celebrated Her Majesty's death.
Some things can be solved with mercy and generosity. Others require violence. Unfortunately, the violence and not the mercy is the language that tribals will understand.
Correct. 15,000 (out of billions?) aged and infirm slaves released because their propaganda value, less the cost of transporting them, exceeded the cost of killing them and disposing of the bodies. Whom do you believe you are fooling? The Witch is dead...and yes, I celebrate liberally. While I do not personally celebrate the death of Empress Sarum, I do see it right that you have the ability to do so yourself.
A Caldarian fellow, Galm Fae, is likely celebrating along with you at this time, though in separate celebrations.
Now, Kim, you might want to watch your words. it is not that they are merciful, it's that the Gallente would be on their asses if they even tried. Just as we, the Caldari, are not utterly wiped out by the Gallente due to the fact we have the Amarr backing us.
Almost like a stalemate you could say.
If you are a bit confused, then a simple spot. The Caldari would be overwhelmed, due to sheer numbers. Now, this is avoided by using the Amarr to back us, providing us with a playing card to put us on even terms with the Gallente. The Minmatar do something very similar.
If I am incorrect, do please correct me.
Those whom have murdered those I hold dear have created a madman, on a path for bloody vengeance, and one with nothing to lose, not even his life.
|
Vikarion
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
878
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 07:35:31 -
[177] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote:If I am incorrect, do please correct me.
Just a couple of notes. First, the Caldari are rated as having the most powerful military of the four empires, which can be verified by checking the DED description of the Caldari Navy ((Or EvE Source)). Not that Tibus Heth seemed to have the first clue as to what to do with it, of course.
Second, given that the Caldari successfully held the Gallente off and established an empire without any aid from the Amarr whatsoever, it is unlikely that the Federation alone would have good odds in any fight to the death. However, it should be noted that the Federation is not alone: it has its puppet/ally (depending on who you talk to), which means that we, too, need an ally. Thus the Amarr. The Amarr are in much the same situation.
This is not to say that our alliance has absolutely no human feeling, but it is a matter of record that the Caldari are uncomfortable with the institution of slavery, even if we maintain a strict standard of non-interference in their cultural affairs. It is also true that religious Amarr seek the conversion, by force if necessary, of all in the cluster. This, of course, would be unacceptable.
Therefore, it is to the benefit of the State to maintain not only the status quo on the part of our own alliance, but also to maintain the existence of the Federation and Republic at this time. Should we acquire some technology or other edge that would allow for complete independence from any foreign entanglements, that would of course be preferable.
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 08:19:34 -
[178] - Quote
Alex II wrote:
Whom do you believe you are fooling? The Witch is dead...and yes, I celebrate liberally.
I respect your right to celebrate openly, but that does not help our relations... |
Alex II
Hoplite Brigade Hashashin Cartel
5
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 08:39:10 -
[179] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote:
A Caldarian fellow, Galm Fae, is likely celebrating along with you at this time, though in separate celebrations.
Now, Kim, you might want to watch your words. it is not that they are merciful, it's that the Gallente would be on their asses if they even tried. Just as we, the Caldari, are not utterly wiped out by the Gallente due to the fact we have the Amarr backing us.
Almost like a stalemate you could say.
If you are a bit confused, then a simple spot. The Caldari would be overwhelmed, due to sheer numbers. Now, this is avoided by using the Amarr to back us, providing us with a playing card to put us on even terms with the Gallente. The Minmatar do something very similar.
If I am incorrect, do please correct me.
Frankly, I find the fact that Matari and Caldari are at odds with one another more than a bit distressing. I am quite comfortable with the frankness and lack of desire for cultural interferance typically displayed by the Caldari culture.
Its easier for me to deal with, by far, than supposed "aid" with so many hidden strings, agendas and meddling our current allies seem to be so fond of.
|
Alex II
Hoplite Brigade Hashashin Cartel
5
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 09:05:55 -
[180] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:Alex II wrote:
Whom do you believe you are fooling? The Witch is dead...and yes, I celebrate liberally.
I respect your right to celebrate openly, but that does not help our relations...
I do understand your argument here. I would call it an honorable one. But honor only holds value for those who perceive you their equals.
Until the Drifters show open malice to any but the Amarr, let them alone. If it later seems they have designs against all of New Eden there will be time enough to consider what needs to be done. And perhaps incentive enough to overcome old disagreements among the three ....
The honesty of blows from a friend are sweeter to my taste than the kisses of an enemy.
|
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 10:20:44 -
[181] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Tyrel Toov wrote:So, the same Gratitude the Gallente show you.... Gallenteans are liars and backstabbers, looking only to betray you, convert you to their filthy ideals and stop your progress out of envy and greed, forcing you into inefficient degradation akin to their crumbling Federation. They were to us, yes, and as a whole this can be true. Although the Federation is not crumbling, as much as we both wish it would. Individually, the Gallente choose their own place, am I not correct? They are not all monsters. It would be okay, if they would chose their own place not on our home world planet and not in our Black Rise. Meanwhile it is not.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Viktor Revon
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 10:25:10 -
[182] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Viktor Revon wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Tyrel Toov wrote:So, the same Gratitude the Gallente show you.... Gallenteans are liars and backstabbers, looking only to betray you, convert you to their filthy ideals and stop your progress out of envy and greed, forcing you into inefficient degradation akin to their crumbling Federation. They were to us, yes, and as a whole this can be true. Although the Federation is not crumbling, as much as we both wish it would. Individually, the Gallente choose their own place, am I not correct? They are not all monsters. It would be okay, if they would chose their own place not on our home world planet and not in our Black Rise. Meanwhile it is not. I would argue that if they were to fight with us, again individually, it would be fine for even that.
This is correct?
Those whom have murdered those I hold dear have created a madman, on a path for bloody vengeance, and one with nothing to lose, not even his life.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 13:49:40 -
[183] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote: I would argue that if they were to fight with us, again individually, it would be fine for even that.
This is correct?
I don't think so. Sorry.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
2042
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 15:20:55 -
[184] - Quote
Pilot Revon why are you wasting your time attempting to converse logically with a genocidal maniac the likes of Kim? This is akin to trying to teach a pig physics; frustrating and counterproductive for you and annoying for the pig.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Neph
Operation Meatshield Plexodus
110
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 15:25:23 -
[185] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Pilot Revon why are you wasting your time attempting to converse logically with a genocidal maniac the likes of Kim? This is akin to trying to teach a pig physics; frustrating and counterproductive for you and annoying for the pig.
Congratulations on calling somebody a pig because they have more conviction than you. Diana is not a maniac, she's a hard-nosed Statist whose view of the world is set in stone. It's easy to turn to personal insults when you've run out of things to say.
"It is one of the greatest tragedies of our time that the Caldari and the Matari have found themselves as enemies..."
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
2042
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 15:33:15 -
[186] - Quote
I'll let Kim's record and past writings speak for themselves. Also, you might want to read my words again. I called Kim a genocidal maniac, not a pig. The pig sentence was an allusion. You might want to have someone explain that term to you.
Also, I know many "hard nosed Statists" like Pieter Tuulinen; they are honorable men and women who wish only to be left alone to do as they wish without foreign interference. This is a far cry from Kim's rantings about wanting to wipe an entire race out of existence.
Also, sister, you might want to check your records. I've been fighting against the slavers (and therefore showing my "conviction") since long before you've had a license. How you can take the side of a xenophobic mass murderer like Kim over one of your own baffles me.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 15:37:51 -
[187] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Pilot Revon why are you wasting your time attempting to converse logically with a genocidal maniac the likes of Kim? This is akin to trying to teach a pig physics; frustrating and counterproductive for you and annoying for the pig. Oh, I see another one fool poked out just to spread her groundless lies. What this time? Hallucinations about genocide and maniacs?
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 15:42:11 -
[188] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:I'll let Kim's record and past writings speak for themselves. Also, you might want to read my words again. I called Kim a genocidal maniac, not a pig. The pig sentence was an allusion. You might want to have someone explain that term to you. Which is a stupid lie, like everything you say, tribal.
Anabella Rella wrote: Also, I know many "hard nosed Statists" like Pieter Tuulinen; they are honorable men and women who wish only to be left alone to do as they wish without foreign interference. This is a far cry from Kim's rantings about wanting to wipe an entire race out of existence.
Savage trying to speak about honor? Looks like a swine in a tutu. Oh, and of course another groundless like as i wold "wipe an entire race blablabla". As they say, fear has huge eyes.
Anabella Rella wrote: Also, sister, you might want to check your records. I've been fighting against the slavers (and therefore showing my "conviction") since long before you've had a license. How you can take the side of a xenophobic mass murderer like Kim over one of your own baffles me.
I see some idiots still try to name me "xenophobic mass murderer". I would be very surprised if anyone could believe words of idiots, really. Why they even still try, anyone with at least a gram of grey matter would see that they are liars.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Neph
Operation Meatshield Plexodus
111
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 17:48:34 -
[189] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:I'll let Kim's record and past writings speak for themselves. Also, you might want to read my words again. I called Kim a genocidal maniac, not a pig. The pig sentence was an allusion. You might want to have someone explain that term to you. Touche.
Anabella Rella wrote:Also, I know many "hard nosed Statists" like Pieter Tuulinen; they are honorable men and women who wish only to be left alone to do as they wish without foreign interference. Tuulinen is a man I both respect and agree with. I respect Kim, even if I disagree with her on many points. There are wise members of the State, there are reactionaries like Heth. There are wise members of the Republic, there are radicals like Muritor.
Anabella Rella wrote:This is a far cry from Kim's rantings about wanting to wipe an entire race out of existence. Also, sister, you might want to check your records. I've been fighting against the slavers (and therefore showing my "conviction") since long before you've had a license. How you can take the side of a xenophobic mass murderer like Kim over one of your own baffles me. I've had a long life before I first stepped into a pod, thank you. Much of that has been in the State, much in the Republic. I can see the parallels. How many Matari scream that all Amarr should die? How many wish to wipe them out of existence? Tell me you didn't hear the shouts of joy, the dinging and donging when Jamyl was killed? They were no easier to debate with than Kim! But did you relate them to swine? Did you call them genocidal maniacs? No, because you understand the history that has brought them to that place. They're irrational and their hate is foolish, but we respect them as brothers and sisters in pain. Yet somehow, the Caldari's burden is one to be dismissed and denied. Such hypocriticalness is no less xenophobic.
"It is one of the greatest tragedies of our time that the Caldari and the Matari have found themselves as enemies..."
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Neph
Operation Meatshield Plexodus
111
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 17:56:50 -
[190] - Quote
Addendum: Diana's use of 'Tribal' and 'Savage' as insults is starting to **** me off. Don't doubt that. I've still heard a hell of a lot of "Calamari", "Mindless Workbots", and "Slaver-lovers" in my time. Sticks and stones, sticks and stones.
"It is one of the greatest tragedies of our time that the Caldari and the Matari have found themselves as enemies..."
|
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 20:28:36 -
[191] - Quote
Personal attacks don't improve an argument, so I would prefer not to use them in a serious public forum unless it was cleverly constructed, and I'm usually not that clever |
Viktor Revon
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 21:30:57 -
[192] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:I'll let Kim's record and past writings speak for themselves. Also, you might want to read my words again. I called Kim a genocidal maniac, not a pig. The pig sentence was an allusion. You might want to have someone explain that term to you. Which is a stupid lie, like everything you say, tribal. Anabella Rella wrote: Also, I know many "hard nosed Statists" like Pieter Tuulinen; they are honorable men and women who wish only to be left alone to do as they wish without foreign interference. This is a far cry from Kim's rantings about wanting to wipe an entire race out of existence.
Savage trying to speak about honor? Looks like a swine in a tutu. Oh, and of course another groundless like as i wold "wipe an entire race blablabla". As they say, fear has huge eyes. Anabella Rella wrote: Also, sister, you might want to check your records. I've been fighting against the slavers (and therefore showing my "conviction") since long before you've had a license. How you can take the side of a xenophobic mass murderer like Kim over one of your own baffles me.
I see some idiots still try to name me "xenophobic mass murderer". I would be very surprised if anyone could believe words of idiots, really. Why they even still try, anyone with at least a gram of grey matter would see that they are liars. First of all... That is not a lie, nor is everything she says. She did not call you a pig, she called you a genocidal maniac, which you are, or at one time were. How do I know this? I have been reading around here long before I began speaking up. I for one have seen your genocidal comments, although I recognize they were the past, and people may come to regret their past words.
Second of all... Uh, she's not a savage due to race, and she may have honour. Yeah, you have made a statement in the past about genocide if my memory serves me well enough.
Finally, Xenophobic? I can not remember exactly if you have acted with xenophobia-like behavior, although I would assume you have. Actually, Ms. Kim, you have already claimed her a liar when she has not lied, then proceeded to call her a savage, a swine, and an idiot.
You are starting to look like that one child that refuses to believe anyone who opposes their mindset, no offense intended.
Ms. Neph, you seem to have forgotten 'Corporate Slaves', 'Warmongers', and 'Squid' I have been called the first and third countless times with the second making only a handful.
Those whom have murdered those I hold dear have created a madman, on a path for bloody vengeance, and one with nothing to lose, not even his life.
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Jennifer Starfall
Chrysos Aigis
277
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 21:38:54 -
[193] - Quote
It appears Mr. Yaken's question has gotten lost in the noise. Can the empires come to a truce? Possibly, but I doubt it will happen in time. The empires are massive behemoths. They have been in the current state of war for seven years. That's seven years of momentum, seven years of hate fueled steam in engines of destruction. It will take too long for the juggernauts of war to come to a stop.
We cannot depend upon humanity to save themselves; it is up to us, the empyrean children of man, to save them not just from the Drifters but from themselves. They will continue to fight within the jaws of the beast as it devours them. It is up to us to save them from the Drifters. We must stop fighting each other and fight the threat posed to ourselves, the empires we love, and the humanity that gave us birth.
If you love your Empire, State, Federation or Republic; if you love the crews of your ships and the families that welcome them home and mourn their deaths, stand together as one unified force.
We cannot fight the Drifters individually or in parts. We have seen the lengths the Drifters will go to at Safizon. This is a foe like no other that New Eden has faced before. We cannot lose sight of the consequences of failure. We cannot afford to be distracted by the empires' wars. Caldari Prime, Yulai, Malkalen, slavery: these are nothing compared to the fate the Drifters promise us.
If you love anything in New Eden, stop fighting each other and fight the Drifters.
Jennifer Starfall
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Avio Yaken
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2134
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 22:11:54 -
[194] - Quote
Jennifer Starfall wrote:It appears Mr. Yaken's question has gotten lost in the noise. Can the empires come to a truce? Possibly, but I doubt it will happen in time. The empires are massive behemoths. They have been in the current state of war for seven years. That's seven years of momentum, seven years of hate fueled steam in engines of destruction. It will take too long for the juggernauts of war to come to a stop.
We cannot depend upon humanity to save themselves; it is up to us, the empyrean children of man, to save them not just from the Drifters but from themselves. They will continue to fight within the jaws of the beast as it devours them. It is up to us to save them from the Drifters. We must stop fighting each other and fight the threat posed to ourselves, the empires we love, and the humanity that gave us birth.
If you love your Empire, State, Federation or Republic; if you love the crews of your ships and the families that welcome them home and mourn their deaths, stand together as one unified force.
We cannot fight the Drifters individually or in parts. We have seen the lengths the Drifters will go to at Safizon. This is a foe like no other that New Eden has faced before. We cannot lose sight of the consequences of failure. We cannot afford to be distracted by the empires' wars. Caldari Prime, Yulai, Malkalen, slavery: these are nothing compared to the fate the Drifters promise us.
If you love anything in New Eden, stop fighting each other and fight the Drifters.
Thank you Ms.Starfall for trying to get the thread on the right track...
However i think the racism argument has taken place in this thread like every other thread on the IGS...Hope im wrong
(.___________________________________________.)/
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 04:05:50 -
[195] - Quote
I don't think it's fair to expect everyone to agree on every issue, but with certain issues concerning fundamental human rights, it's necessary to have some social cohesion. Otherwise we probably cannot have peace. I know that I will be willing to help Amarr if they are faced with a severe threat, especially when that threat is capable of harming the rest of the cluster. Same with Caldari, Gallente and Matari |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2020
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 05:22:17 -
[196] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote:she called you a genocidal maniac, which you are, or at one time were. Well, since you are as well decided to spread groundless lies about Caldari officer, I will treat you as enemy of the State as you have deserved. With fire and steel.
See you in space.
Viktor Revon wrote: Yeah, you have made a statement in the past about genocide if my memory serves me well enough.
And this is a typical example of a blind gallentean propaganda - to lie about Caldari Officer without having anything in their head except their hallucinations they call "memories". Luckily for all of us, they exist only in Viktor Revon's head.
I don't know better cure of gallentean brainwashing than heavy gunfire. And Viktor Revon might need this remedy soon.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 05:37:15 -
[197] - Quote
I would have to side with miss Kim in this case. Unless you can find quotes to back up your claims of somebody's character, I would say it's unfair to call her a genocidal maniac. Surely if you feel that strongly about her, you would have a good reason, preferably with some kind of record |
Viktor Revon
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 03:45:49 -
[198] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Viktor Revon wrote:she called you a genocidal maniac, which you are, or at one time were. Well, since you are as well decided to spread groundless lies about Caldari officer, I will treat you as enemy of the State as you have deserved. With fire and steel. See you in space. Viktor Revon wrote: Yeah, you have made a statement in the past about genocide if my memory serves me well enough.
And this is a typical example of a blind gallentean propaganda - to lie about Caldari Officer without having anything in their head except their hallucinations they call "memories". Luckily for all of us, they exist only in Viktor Revon's head. I don't know better cure of gallentean brainwashing than heavy gunfire. And Viktor Revon might need this remedy soon. I am about done with this conversation as thus far, you have had the same answer, albeit with different words, to everything.
Ignore, insult, or threaten.
The Gallentean Propaganda part makes no sense whatsoever when referring to me, one whom is on less than friendly terms with the Feds. Oh, and do not worry, I have something in my head, it is a brain that is capable of reasoning and using logic, which seems to be where your mind stops.
As for the 'Treat you like an enemy of the State.' Very well, but this will be a Caldari Officer attacking another whom is currently in the Caldari Militia. ((Might want to point out, my character isn't currently in it, but lore-wise, he is.))
These hallucinations are common to all humans that are biologically correct. They are moments of recalling the past, and if you do not have memories of anything, you may wish to see a medical professional as soon as you can, write this down right now too seeing as you have no memory of the last 5 seconds. ((To clarify, that would be only for the one whom doesn't have memory))
Now, I know no cure for your broken insights, so sadly I can not help you. However, if you do wish to hunt me down, and kill me for little reason other than having nothing to really combat my points than threats, go ahead. I'm currently in Usi, in a capsule. Although this will not stop me from approaching your ship.
Finally, I see no way you could possibly call me a subject of Gallentean Brainwashing. I despise the Federation, and try to avoid Federate spaces when I can.
Oh, and Ms. Kim, I am not against the State, in fact you may have called me a Caldari Extremist in the past, or Caldari Loyalist up until a few months ago in which I drew back from the conflict.
Also, Mr. Surge, I most certainly will look for the quotes when I get the time, which may be a while, but I will get them when possible.
Damn those CONCORD bastards and their ways...
Grumbles
I WAS TAKING THOSE SLAVES TO FREEDOM, I SWEAR IT!
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
2043
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 05:22:56 -
[199] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:I would have to side with miss Kim in this case. Unless you can find quotes to back up your claims of somebody's character, I would say it's unfair to call her a genocidal maniac. Surely if you feel that strongly about her, you would have a good reason, preferably with some kind of record Kim-baka's racist, genocidal and xenophobic rantings have been archived over the past several years. I suggest you do some research pilot and avail yourself of the IGS' search function. Kim's diatribes, both in print and in person, are well known.
Just to refresh your memory, here's one tidbit from earlier in this thread in which she offers her bigoted views and generalizes about all Gallenteans:
Diana Kim wrote: Gallenteans are liars and backstabbers, looking only to betray you, convert you to their filthy ideals and stop your progress out of envy and greed, forcing you into inefficient degradation akin to their crumbling Federation.
Be careful about whom you hitch your wagon to, pilot.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
19
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Posted - 2015.09.18 08:09:01 -
[200] - Quote
Perhaps there is some Caldari culture in those words. I would be interested in learning more about Kim's ideal Caldari State, ideal New Eden |
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Goldfinch
Order of Jamyl
408
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:49:24 -
[201] - Quote
People want to feel safe in their homes, and provide for their families. They want clean water and employment. They want to be able to kiss their children and tuck them into bed at night, and grow old amongst their loved ones.
War is a construct of the minority, a vocal minority.
We don't need Drifters to bring us together. All we would need to do is remember what it is we try and live for.
\J/
veiled and bound
my origin story (on R109)
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1454
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 13:37:51 -
[202] - Quote
Goldfinch wrote: People want to feel safe in their homes, and provide for their families. They want clean water and employment. They want to be able to kiss their children and tuck them into bed at night, and grow old amongst their loved ones.
War is a construct of the minority, a vocal minority.
For many, safety and family - Clan and Tribe, certainly, are inherently threatened by the continued enslavement of our kin. War is simply the word used when enough aggressors meet enough people who are no longer willing to be victims. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2024
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 14:21:39 -
[203] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote: Oh, and Ms. Kim, I am not against the State, in fact you may have called me a Caldari Extremist in the past, or Caldari Loyalist up until a few months ago in which I drew back from the conflict.
Also, Mr. Surge, I most certainly will look for the quotes when I get the time, which may be a while, but I will get them when possible.
I don't care who you were, I care who you are and what you are doing. If you attacking Caldari officers - be prepared to be attacked back, without telling how you were fluffy and white, gathering flowers, or whatever. We are at WAR.
If you side with enemy, YOU DIE AS ENEMY. Do you have at least a tiny piece of dignity left?!
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2024
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Posted - 2015.09.18 14:27:39 -
[204] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote: Kim-baka's racist, genocidal and xenophobic rantings have been archived over the past several years. I suggest you do some research pilot and avail yourself of the IGS' search function. Kim's diatribes, both in print and in person, are well known.
It is funny to see how incompetent enemies who are afraid to meet you on field degrade themselves to groundless lies like this Rella loves to spit out.
Well, she won't be able to hide everywhere and everytime. Someday the justice will come and this tribal will finally meet her ancestors in disgrace. Probably staying on her knees, crying and begging for mercy, as a good slave. Isn't it the only thing she's good for, eh?
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2024
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 14:36:37 -
[205] - Quote
Goldfinch wrote: People want to feel safe in their homes, and provide for their families. They want clean water and employment. They want to be able to kiss their children and tuck them into bed at night, and grow old amongst their loved ones.
War is a construct of the minority, a vocal minority.
We don't need Drifters to bring us together. All we would need to do is remember what it is we try and live for.
Unfortunately, in some places it is majority, who wants the war. Look for example at the Republic, and ask if they want to fight the Empire. Or the Gallente Federation with their "democracy".
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Neph
Operation Meatshield Plexodus
113
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Posted - 2015.09.18 15:53:45 -
[206] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Goldfinch wrote: People want to feel safe in their homes, and provide for their families. They want clean water and employment. They want to be able to kiss their children and tuck them into bed at night, and grow old amongst their loved ones.
War is a construct of the minority, a vocal minority.
We don't need Drifters to bring us together. All we would need to do is remember what it is we try and live for.
Unfortunately, in some places it is majority, who wants the war. Look for example at the Republic, and ask if they want to fight the Empire. Or the Gallente Federation with their "democracy".
I don't want to fight the Empire. I want my people to be freed. The Republic is many tribes, many people, who all have different opinions. Also, you of all people accusing others of being warmongering is like a crow calling a white songbird too loud.
Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5599
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 17:29:28 -
[207] - Quote
I don't believe that the Empires will ever come completely to terms and enter a golden age of peace and cooperation - but unite in the face of a common enemy? Absolutely. They've already done so once.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
625
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 17:32:52 -
[208] - Quote
Neph wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Goldfinch wrote: People want to feel safe in their homes, and provide for their families. They want clean water and employment. They want to be able to kiss their children and tuck them into bed at night, and grow old amongst their loved ones.
War is a construct of the minority, a vocal minority.
We don't need Drifters to bring us together. All we would need to do is remember what it is we try and live for.
Unfortunately, in some places it is majority, who wants the war. Look for example at the Republic, and ask if they want to fight the Empire. Or the Gallente Federation with their "democracy". I don't want to fight the Empire. I want my people to be freed. The Republic is many tribes, many people, who all have different opinions. Also, you of all people accusing others of being warmongering is like a crow calling a white songbird too loud. While I applaud the attempt at civil discourse, Kim is the last person in the cluster that will give in to it. She's more likely to insult you as being a "savage" or an "ignorant tribal" for that songbird reference then she is to reply to the point of your post..... And she may have a few choice words to say about mine, too.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2024
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Posted - 2015.09.18 18:38:19 -
[209] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't believe that the Empires will ever come completely to terms and enter a golden age of peace and cooperation - but unite in the face of a common enemy? Absolutely. They've already done so once. That's why we all need to put aside all our differences and fight together. As one.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1480
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 18:55:10 -
[210] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't believe that the Empires will ever come completely to terms and enter a golden age of peace and cooperation - but unite in the face of a common enemy? Absolutely. They've already done so once. That's why we all need to put aside all our differences and fight together. As one. Oh, blessed day! I never thought I'd hear that from Kimmy. There's hope for the cluster yet!
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
2043
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Posted - 2015.09.18 18:56:17 -
[211] - Quote
As to the original point of this thread, I have to agree with Pilot Tuulinen. There's been too much blood spilled, too many harsh words and too many grievances for there to ever be any kind of long-term unity between the major powers. If, however, a clear and present threat appears that endangers us all then we might see cooperation.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2024
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Posted - 2015.09.18 20:03:33 -
[212] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't believe that the Empires will ever come completely to terms and enter a golden age of peace and cooperation - but unite in the face of a common enemy? Absolutely. They've already done so once. That's why we all need to put aside all our differences and fight together. As one. Oh, blessed day! I never thought I'd hear that from Kimmy. There's hope for the cluster yet! Yes, there's hope. That we all will get together to destroy the Federation and inconveniences like you.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1481
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 20:38:31 -
[213] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't believe that the Empires will ever come completely to terms and enter a golden age of peace and cooperation - but unite in the face of a common enemy? Absolutely. They've already done so once. That's why we all need to put aside all our differences and fight together. As one. Oh, blessed day! I never thought I'd hear that from Kimmy. There's hope for the cluster yet! Yes, there's hope. That we all will get together to destroy the Federation and inconveniences like you. Whelp, my faith in humanity just got shot down. Way to go Kimmy, this is why we can't have nice things....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Viktor Revon
11
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Posted - 2015.09.18 20:38:53 -
[214] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't believe that the Empires will ever come completely to terms and enter a golden age of peace and cooperation - but unite in the face of a common enemy? Absolutely. They've already done so once. That's why we all need to put aside all our differences and fight together. As one. Oh, blessed day! I never thought I'd hear that from Kimmy. There's hope for the cluster yet! Yes, there's hope. That we all will get together to destroy the Federation and inconveniences like you. Damn, you took her hope and slammed it into a brick wall, pushed it onto the curb, stomped on it's face and shot it with a Doomsday Device.
Also, I am not siding with the enemy? Drifters? I want them all dead. Feds? If they leave me alone from here on out, I shall show the same respect. This is how all Caldari should be. We did not wish to be in their Federation so we broke away, not to swallow them up and become the Feds with a new face, but rather to live our way, without them ruling over us.
I think you may be forgetting this, Kim.
Damn those CONCORD bastards and their ways...
Grumbles
I WAS TAKING THOSE SLAVES TO FREEDOM, I SWEAR IT!
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
21
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Posted - 2015.09.21 00:12:08 -
[215] - Quote
Perhaps part of the reason why the four nations will find it hard to come to peace is that despite mistakes being made on every side, they're not willing to apologize to each other for the worst offenses. On the other hand, there seems to be a sort of invisible guiding hand for the military-industrial complexes, always looking for another reason to pit us against each other like dogfight gamblers. In the end, they are the only winners |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1415
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 07:46:17 -
[216] - Quote
Oh, I have no doubt that they will probably in a distant future... If civilization does not collapse until then.
Singularities and post-humanism tend to bring drastic changes to most societies as we know them and redefine completely the notions of power and authority... |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
719
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 08:19:32 -
[217] - Quote
I just want to have a crack at their battleship and devour all that delicious technology. Imagine a Typhoon with that kind of propulsion tech! Or a Tempest with that shield tech! Or hell, we put that superweapon of theirs onto a Ragnarok!
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2028
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 18:39:07 -
[218] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote: Drifters? I want them all dead. Feds? If they leave me alone from here on out, I shall show the same respect. This is how all Caldari should be. We did not wish to be in their Federation so we broke away, not to swallow them up and become the Feds with a new face, but rather to live our way, without them ruling over us.
Oh, swallowing the gallente and becoming new Federation... Well, typical though of someone thinking in gallentean terms.
And Feds leaving your alone? Ha-ha-ha. Probably because they already got you. Otherwise they would never.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Viktor Revon
12
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Posted - 2015.09.21 20:53:29 -
[219] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Viktor Revon wrote: Drifters? I want them all dead. Feds? If they leave me alone from here on out, I shall show the same respect. This is how all Caldari should be. We did not wish to be in their Federation so we broke away, not to swallow them up and become the Feds with a new face, but rather to live our way, without them ruling over us.
Oh, swallowing the gallente and becoming new Federation... Well, typical though of someone thinking in gallentean terms. And Feds leaving your alone? Ha-ha-ha. Probably because they already got you. Otherwise they would never. They have left me alone thus far, likely due to the fact I have completely avoided all Gallente space.
Damn those CONCORD bastards and their ways...
Grumbles
I WAS TAKING THOSE SLAVES TO FREEDOM, I SWEAR IT!
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5616
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 13:35:06 -
[220] - Quote
Viktor Revon wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Viktor Revon wrote: Drifters? I want them all dead. Feds? If they leave me alone from here on out, I shall show the same respect. This is how all Caldari should be. We did not wish to be in their Federation so we broke away, not to swallow them up and become the Feds with a new face, but rather to live our way, without them ruling over us.
Oh, swallowing the gallente and becoming new Federation... Well, typical though of someone thinking in gallentean terms. And Feds leaving your alone? Ha-ha-ha. Probably because they already got you. Otherwise they would never. They have left me alone thus far, likely due to the fact I have completely avoided all Gallente space. Sadly the definition of "Gallente space" can be highly fungible.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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