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Princess Jodi	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:48:00 - [31] I have no problem with Rigs being very expensive. Everyone is trying to say "Rigs should be cheap so that every ship has them." The point is not to make all ships better or for them to max out all their slots, the point is to allow variety and customization IF YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT! For example, we have Tech 1 Cruisers, Faction Cruisers, and Tech 2 Cruisers such as HAC's. They all have similar basic stats, but the addition of 1 extra slot here or a 5% more damage there causes them to vary widely in costs. Then you can have a Tech 1 ship with Tech 1 gear, and compare it to a HAC with Officer Mods, and get an even further disparity in the ending capability of the ship. Finally the pilot can have different skill levels, and implants will also extend the disparity. That disparity extends into the cost. A Tech 1 Cruiser piloted by a 3-month old can cost 1% of the price of a Tricked-out HAC piloted by someone playing since Beta. Rigs are just another way of making your ship different from the Noobship we all started with. You don't 'have' to install rigs on your ship, any more than you 'have' to put in those Crystal Implant sets or 'have' to buy that Officer Mod. True, it makes your ship better, but you get to choose how much 'better' it gets to be. So the argument that all ships should have Rigs is the equalivalent of saying all ships need to be Tech 2, cuz they are better. If the goal was to make all ships better, you just eliminate all Tech 1 ships and make Tech 2 the only ships in the game. Then Tech 3, etc.....it would never stop. The purpose is variety and customization, for whatever price the buyer is willing to pay. Next, you must understand the economics behind salvaging. Any profession that makes an Uber amount of isk/hour is going to be flooded until the market can't absorb the production. After initial settling-out periods, things will stabalize to the point that Salvaging will compare to Ratting, Mining, or any other form of income. This is because anyone can do it. People will change professions, and therefore affect the market for both their old profession and new profession, if there is a wide disparity of earning potential. The only way that some people are able to make more than others in EVE is because they have an edge that the others can't compete with, such as a Tech 2 BPO or 60 million skill points. Therefore Salvaging will eventually pay just as much as all the other professions pay. If you get the ability to Salvage better cuz you got all the right gear and skills maxed out, then you have created an edge that will mean Salvaging makes you more money. It is therefore my opinion that Salvaging should be left as it is for the short-to-medium term. I am glad that the ratios of items dropped seem to be closer to the production ratios needed, as it would be useless to have 20 times the number of Contaminated Nanite drop than could be used up. If CCP wants all ships to have rigs....let the NPC's build them at a reasonable cost. But I think the true goal is variety, even among the exact same ship type, and that is good.
Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Psionist I ran through the belts in my 0.5 home system one time and came away with 38 various salvage items and about a million in loot. Not a bad way to spend an hour. I think the drop rates are fine. 1 million in an hour??? That's a horrible way to spend valuable gaming time (says the father of two with the stay-at-home wife).
Ilya Murametz Caldari Hybonashi Industries Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:04:00 - [33] Originally by: Satsuki Kakuri It would definitely be nicer if it didn't take up to a minute to salvage a rig. That just makes it incredibly worse. Use more then one salvager, takes our salvage ships approx 15-20 secs to salvage a wreck. And to OP, you ever thought that maybe just maybe they (ccp) don't want mission rats to be salvaged and maybe even decreased nerfed their salvage drops... Why you ask, well because if they didn't you would be sayign hello to another farming technique. Salvaging is fine, go out to 0.0 and salvage... we get close to 100-150 parts a night... _____________________________________________ Originally by: some nub ..aka recovering WoW person What lvl can I start PvP ?
cornelius Agrippa	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:07:00 - [34] Just a few words come to mind here , if you dont think salvaging is worth it dont do it. But then dont get upset if you cant buy a rig for 50k, i dont see what the fuss is , you go out rat get loot the salvage is extra. You complain that there are 2 many wrecks out there waiting for someone to salvage , well salvage them and stop the moaning. Come on peeps think outside the box this isnt WoW
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:22:00 - [35] Just some extra notes : - Research the Rig BPOs. They have a 10% waste factor, that is atleast 20-30 compoments wasted (you can never reach perfect waste, but you can cut it by a big factor) - Ratting in belts yields more Rig compoments than mission/deadspace rats. Frigs leave the least compoments while BS leave the most. - PvP is a HUGE resource of compoments. Yesterday a killed Dread yielded about 200 compoments I was told. If you have a spare high and nothing to fit in there, use a salvager. - Groups working on salvaging is much much more efficient than solo. Have 1-2 people create wrecks and another person following them in a ship fitted for looting and salvaging (destroyer is recommended) And always remember : If a person pays 2b for his Rig, that doesn't mean that the Rig is worth 2b The market will stabilize after awhile, don't forget that the first Rigs will and are used for internal consuming of either a player or a corp _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Trotski II Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Psionist Also this is from the patch notes: "Inspected and un-inspected Wrecks can be filtered via Overview settings. "Apply to Ships Only" must not be selected in the Overview preferences for this to function." This seems to imply that you can have inspected wrecks vanish from the overview as you loot them, thus reducing clutter while still leaving them for salvagers. (me) THIS WORKS. Only wrecks with loot can be shown in overview. In the end maybe this wreck stuff will make loot easier. No need to travel those few km to pick loot from frigate but maybe worth for a BS.
Maglorre	Posted - 2006.12.15 00:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Redart And you can't remove them from the overview if you're ratting for money, because you want the loot inside of them. So when you go to a heavily ratted belt you see 50 freaking wrecks obscuring your NPC notifications. There is one thing that would make some of this problem go away. Make the wrecks tractorable by anybody. If I'm in a belt and can tractor a wreck to me for salvaging then I will do it. If it's 30km away and I can tractor it I will more than likely move the 10k needed to do so. If it's 30km and not tractorable I'll probably ignore it (unless it's a BS wreck ). Maybe there could be a timer (30 min, 1 hour?) where they are left as they are now, after this they become abandoned and can be tractored by any old Tom, **** or Harry. Cheers. HAHAH ! Gotta love the word filters.
Pick Me	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:27:00 - [38] Edited by: Pick Me on 15/12/2006 01:28:25 Originally by: Galk Edited by: Galk on 14/12/2006 20:42:31 You guys are missing it so badly... It's a mini profession, not something that you should be able ace after npc'ing in a few belts, or droping a few missions and expecting salvaging to be as rewarding for your short time spent doing it. I don't wish to be critical, but y'all need to broaden your scope a little bit.... Quote a dev from the other week, can't remember who it was.... "hopefully someday(soon?) we will see dedicated salvage crews)" Exactly what I thought! Everyone seem to forget that even if they got thoses rigs, it won't be acceptable for many of them to not have the rigs skill to 5 to minimise the penalty for (edit-add) fitting (end-edit) it. As a specialization, we will have new skills like: "Small ship salvaging" that will increase the salvaged components amount by 10% per level. Then "Advanced small ship salvaging" that will add another 5% per level on top of that but will require "Small ship salvaging" 5 to be able to train. You got the idea. With all the new players getting salvaged components everywhere and dumping them on market like they do for tritanium, there won't be any problem in supply for thoses willing to put some kind of buy order.
meppa Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:57:00 - [39] Works perfectly now. Love my rigged ship also. Thanks for fixing circuit issue. Not tested faction navies yet on salvage tough, but salvaging DED ships was positive suprice. Drones yield still nothing tough and not sure on mercs.
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.12.15 02:46:00 - [40] The sipleest solution is to extend the range of the salvager to 20km, that way those of us salvaging cosmos. (Cosmos needs cleaned because if you wait 10 min you have all the wrecks left and a new spawn already) Secondly wrecks should be salvageable even with things in them, when people open them for loot they should pop after being salvaged then looted. That way we dont get the loot theif problem and we can pop cans faster. And i have been salvaging sence the patch changed it so you dont need 5s anymore, we almost have enough for 1 cargo rig, price right now is going to be something like 200mil but we still have something like 40 peices left. ------------- Cadet Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2006.12.15 02:51:00 - [41] <- disagree i'm not salvaging right now, but from what i gather, the corp buddies already have a few rig options at hand - 80% of that came with the ole' drop rates. they may not have made as much money as with sticking to missions and belt-rats, but they're only after a few rigs for their favourite ships anyway. now if someone truly specialized on it, there's millions to be made - just let one be the salvage bimbo, give him a BM of your wreck piles and off he goes. maybe it will not be hundreds of millions per rig but still enough to ensure a business: i'd say 10-20mil is possible in a couple of weeks' time and i find that ok for these powerful "modules". and it's still enough profit "out of nowhere" to expect quite a large market. now all we need to do is get used to the different ingredients and their most common areas and we're set
Kerosene Caldari Fun Inc Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.15 03:25:00 - [42] wth? I went out just to see how much salvaging had increased and my first BS dropped 10 salvageables, 7 of them were Burned Circuits. I already had enough to make a couple of the rigs I wanted (Aux Thrusters) and this will make Rig making so easy now. I was hoping it would be a bit rarer but now it seems every man and their dog will be fitting rigs to whatever ship they they happen to be in. I REALLY don't know what you're all whining at. They made salvaging so anyone can do it now ( as opposed to Survey V etc). People are saying they are leaving lots of wrecks behind too so there's thousands of components waiting for people to come get them. Everyone wants everything so easy now. What happened to the days of having to work to get what you want? As for those crying about missions not dropping enough salvageables? GOOD! Thank god. High sec is already too rewarding without any risk. If you want to play with the big toys, play with the big boys in 0.0 imo. Stop asking for everything to be handed to you on a plate. This community has really gone downhill in the last year or so. __ Originally by: Blacklight on BoB Just to be sure everyone is clear... We use spies. We listen to your TS. We feed you false intel. We have no qualms about it whatsoever..
Tanisha Minmatar Minmatar Privateer Co-op	Posted - 2006.12.15 03:27:00 - [43] Overall Salvaging is fine really, it does not need to be easier in my opinion, especially , as others have stated, since it is a Mini-Proffession. but......... Looking at this from another view, such as Database Performance and Loading...... It is rather working against yourself, CCP, to add dozens of wrecks in a single mission, which translates to multiple thousands of server wide that, at this point at least, never yield a stitch of Salvage. Thus far I have noticed Mordus Ships in any mission, that I have run, Never Yield Salvage, same with Drones. Faction Navy/Police ships seem to yeild the much sought after Single unit of Metal Scraps, regardless of ship size, so far for me at least. I am not what I would term a Database Specialist, not even close to where you guys at CCP should now be, but all these useless wrecks that maintain in the database for at least 2 hours? that has got to add much Unneccessary and Unwanted Database Loading, from my perspective at least. If the wrecks are going to consume space and cycles, I did have an outburst last week that suggested a few things, My Old Post if you care to review it -------------------------------- I just fly the ship :-)
Roddic Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:42:00 - [44] salvaging on the whole is awesome. only thing i would want changed is the salvaging time of the module to say half of what it is now. or a hybrid tractor/salvaging module.
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2006.12.15 06:03:00 - [45] Only problem with salvage is you have to remove loot from wreck first, sometimes BS modules are too big to fit and I have to jetson them for every few wrecks, which is a pain in the ass. On the whole though I dont think 5-15 salvage per wreck is that bad :)
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 14/12/2006 20:00:00 Originally by: Psionist 38 various salvage items Multiply that by 10 and you have 1/5th of the materials it takes to create a single rig. wrong alot of rigs take a SUM TOTAL of less than 300 parts which rig requires 1900 salvage parts (380 x 5)????? i think you need to go back to school ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Manipulator As a noob I have made copious amounts of ISK by salvaging. Some parts go for upwards of 150k ISK. Thats quite a bit from savlaging wrecks from my junky noob missions. well said - i made about 20m before the patch came out just selling circuit boards - clowns paying 1m a piece for them - id like to say thanks to all those ppl :) and even now u can still sell circuit boards for upto 200k a piece (best buyers price ive seen since patch), which is awesome when i consider i did 2 missions last night and took over 50 circuit boards :-) ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Doc Extropy Now, dear CCP, if you manage to reduce building requirements by a factor of 5 - 10 we all can be happy. The first step was in the right direction, now lets try the second (and last) one. Should be possible, isn't it? ??? please ignore this cretin ccp :-) building requirements are fine as are drop rates - anyone actually interested in salvaging or building rigs with little or no effort can do so. ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
mikerem	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:45:00 - [49] I like salvage the way it is at the moment. What i do is follow my corpmates around and salvage there kills. This works out for both of us. Im primarly a miner, so i have bad combat skills, and they dont have the hassle of looting/salvaging there missions. After there done killing i swwop in and start my stuff, they warp off and finish the mission. When im done i dock empty my hold and join them at the new mission spot
Phoebe Beelzebub Jafo Entertainment and News Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:34:00 - [50] Originally by: Pick Me Exactly what I thought! Everyone seem to forget that even if they got thoses rigs, it won't be acceptable for many of them to not have the rigs skill to 5 to minimise the penalty for (edit-add) fitting (end-edit) it. As a specialization, we will have new skills like: "Small ship salvaging" that will increase the salvaged components amount by 10% per level. Then "Advanced small ship salvaging" that will add another 5% per level on top of that but will require "Small ship salvaging" 5 to be able to train. You got the idea. With all the new players getting salvaged components everywhere and dumping them on market like they do for tritanium, there won't be any problem in supply for thoses willing to put some kind of buy order. Ditto. Salvaging is fine. It's there for people who want to make money. If you're concerned about mission running and ratting and looting and salvaging and rig production all at the same time, with your Mechanic and Survey 3, please kindly stuff it. I spent 3 weeks training the pre-reqs for the bloody skill, and am in the midst of another 3 weeks to get it to 5, and am going to invest in a salvage tackle. I'm the one taking my month and a half of skills out there combing the belts for abandoned wrecks, so I'm the one who should make the cash off the haul. Wrecks are not a free buff for mission runners or belt ratters. If you want the rewards, train the damn skills. Don't complain about drop rates when you have Salvage 2. Don't complain that it takes too long to salvage when you only have one Salvager 1 equipped. Train the skills, outfit a destroyer or a battlecruiser, and then either sell the salvage, or buy the components you need to complete the rig. It's not a free lunch. If you don't like the price for the buffet, there's a McDonald's down the road.
Lil Belle	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:41:00 - [51] Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 14/12/2006 20:00:00 Originally by: Psionist 38 various salvage items Multiply that by 10 and you have 1/5th of the materials it takes to create a single rig. The point that makes me mad isn't the fact that it's so hard to gather the items, but the fact is that we have ALL these useless wrecks cluttering space... for what? The chance some salvager might come by and take some of them? And you can't remove them from the overview if you're ratting for money, because you want the loot inside of them. So when you go to a heavily ratted belt you see 50 freaking wrecks obscuring your NPC notifications. A few times last night I thought I had killed everything, but what do ya know... had 2 or 3 frigs left buried in the wreck clutter. It's just a "WTF" type deal. Dont lie, a single rig takes about 150-250 parts to build depending on a rig, multipled by 10 his 38 would be 338 parts, easily enough to build a rig, possibly even two.
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:43:00 - [52] Originally by: Lil Belle Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 14/12/2006 20:00:00 Originally by: Psionist 38 various salvage items Multiply that by 10 and you have 1/5th of the materials it takes to create a single rig. The point that makes me mad isn't the fact that it's so hard to gather the items, but the fact is that we have ALL these useless wrecks cluttering space... for what? The chance some salvager might come by and take some of them? And you can't remove them from the overview if you're ratting for money, because you want the loot inside of them. So when you go to a heavily ratted belt you see 50 freaking wrecks obscuring your NPC notifications. A few times last night I thought I had killed everything, but what do ya know... had 2 or 3 frigs left buried in the wreck clutter. It's just a "WTF" type deal. Dont lie, a single rig takes about 150-250 parts to build depending on a rig, multipled by 10 his 38 would be 338 parts, easily enough to build a rig, possibly even two. /signed ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Kaizek Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:46:00 - [53] Did they make the drop rate in missions a little higher, last I heard the drop rate in mish's was sub-par at best.
Malocchia	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:09:00 - [54] Oh my god. So much whining. I ran a level 4 mission with a friend today called Pirate Slaughter. It took a while, we did it, some tech 2 parts but with tech 1 ships (no faction.) Any case, after we got done, my friend got in his GET THIS his destroyer. It currently has 2 Tractor beams and 6 (SIX!) salvagers. It took him about ten minute to clean up the third part of that mission. If you haven't done it, I don't want to explain the quantity he salvaged. Another mission like that (we lost most of the loot on the second part because we were still figuring out the whole "2 manning level 4's" thing) and we will have enough to build a shield rig. I am not complaining.
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:09:00 - [55] drop rate is fine now -i.e. that salvage is a decent amount for number of ships destroyed AND more importantly the most common and needed parts - CIRCUIT boards are now the most frequently dropped ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Qutsemnie Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:13:00 - [56] And there is 0 bottleneck in the cost of BPOs so it wont be an exclusive or semiexclusive or even moderatly exclusive production activity. Which means supply line efficiency will be near perfect since the components dont have to get to specific people. Which means very little addon cost. At these drop rates its also an acceptable project to build your own rigs via your own salvaging as a hobby when ever you blow up your mission BS.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:15:00 - [57] So far all the mission against different faction than the pirates ones give no salvage, and the same for all the named enemyes. Even if I am a mission runner I felt it was acceptable to cut mission farming (but killing one of the hard BS and getting noting is fastidious). Then yesterday I did a level 3 complex hunting for some tags and using 1 salvager as an aftertought I came away with 70m3 of salvaged items in less than 30 minutes. I really feel that it is absurd. No salvage from level 4 missions against Empire BS, but plenty from static complex, the most farmable target possible?
Mindfire	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:19:00 - [58] I like post-patch-salvaging now. Leave it as it is. I love my Looting/Salvaging Destroyer which I use after killing. It's insanely fast in Looting/Salvaging so Parts/Rigs are extra income. I can't understand all the whiners. @All Whiners: Did CCP take something off you or is Salvaging/Rigging actually something that u get in addition to all other stuff u have. Think it over. I can only reapeat what so much people have already said: You don't like it? Don't do it!
Redart Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:23:00 - [59] Edited by: Redart on 15/12/2006 09:23:26 I retract all my statements. Done right, rigging might be a pretty good profession given that some idiot doesn't totally screw up the prices of finished rigs for everyone. About 2hrs ratting and I can almost make a single rig. That's not a half bad side profession. Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:26:00 - [60] hmmm, I dont mind.. a few days to salvage together enough for a rig?.. that seems okay to me. and some items only drop by certain faction ships?.. this makes sense.. means that you have to go shopping around for bits.. I guess for the people that go through ships like they eat packets of crisps it doesnt seem worth it but for me its giving me something else to do in missions, something else to collect/sell.. I much prefer the salvaging to the new "spend 5+ hours to explore anything worth a damn" system. <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..

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