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Anonay	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:38:00 - [1] Hi all, I for one was realy looking forward to salvaging, oh how i was so wrong. Its a mess plain and simple, even the new patch has not fixed salvage item drops adn certain types or NPC dont give salvage!!!!! Why oh why cant we have the wrecks as they are displayed now (full or empty) and cant we salvage a whole wreck to refine for minerals???? Its seams a far more simple answer and more realistic. At the moment its hardly worth looting and salvaging as it takes more time ot salvage and loot then do another mission. CCP realy needs to adress this issue, even the parts required for riggs are stupid amounts considering the parts dropped in the first place. I am not hte only one who feels like this i fear
Riley Craven Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:43:00 - [2] Agreed. While the new patch helped things alot and will prob put a big dent in the prices of future rigs, it was no where enough to make them a truely common item. The problem is in order for something to be common, an item has to be easily buildable by one person. I.E. He can run the entire chain from raw materials to finished product easily. While CCP have added alot of drops, its still not going to be anywhere near enough. Last night I salvaged an entire system in 0.0 a couple times. This still was not enough parts to build even one rig. So basically they cut the time invested from a couple of longs weeks or months to a couple of long days to get one item built. Also the way parts dropped are really stupid. It makes no since for a battleship to drop only one thing. In one chase I got a bs that dropped 15 tripped circuits. Um wth???? It should be a bunch of different things like 3-4 power cords, a couple of tripped circuits and a couple of other things as well. Sometimes I wonder what CCP is thinking.
Altaree Gallente Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:47:00 - [3] um, randomness ftw? Fix The Web Servers
Redart Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:49:00 - [4] /agreed I was quite disappointed as well. The amount of materials it takes to actually create anything is insane compared to the amount of time it takes to gather those materials. I was quite happy with my 13 Burned Circuits untill I realized I need 350 to actually create anything. Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:49:00 - [5] was the drop increase good? yes very good. extremely good. was it enough? no. now what needs to be done is to cut down the production requirements of the rigs. ------- Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Anonay Hi all, I for one was realy looking forward to salvaging, oh how i was so wrong. Its a mess plain and simple, even the new patch has not fixed salvage item drops adn certain types or NPC dont give salvage!!!!! Why oh why cant we have the wrecks as they are displayed now (full or empty) and cant we salvage a whole wreck to refine for minerals???? Its seams a far more simple answer and more realistic. At the moment its hardly worth looting and salvaging as it takes more time ot salvage and loot then do another mission. CCP realy needs to adress this issue, even the parts required for riggs are stupid amounts considering the parts dropped in the first place. I am not hte only one who feels like this i fear if you don't like salvaging that much there's a simple fix to your problem: don't do it. i like salvaging, i'm getting a few good items, and i'm almost ready to build my first batch of rigs ========================================== Iy
Psionist	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:55:00 - [7] I ran through the belts in my 0.5 home system one time and came away with 38 various salvage items and about a million in loot. Not a bad way to spend an hour. I think the drop rates are fine.
Redart Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:57:00 - [8] Edited by: Redart on 14/12/2006 20:00:00 Originally by: Psionist 38 various salvage items Multiply that by 10 and you have 1/5th of the materials it takes to create a single rig. The point that makes me mad isn't the fact that it's so hard to gather the items, but the fact is that we have ALL these useless wrecks cluttering space... for what? The chance some salvager might come by and take some of them? And you can't remove them from the overview if you're ratting for money, because you want the loot inside of them. So when you go to a heavily ratted belt you see 50 freaking wrecks obscuring your NPC notifications. A few times last night I thought I had killed everything, but what do ya know... had 2 or 3 frigs left buried in the wreck clutter. It's just a "WTF" type deal. Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
Manipulator Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:58:00 - [9] As a noob I have made copious amounts of ISK by salvaging. Some parts go for upwards of 150k ISK. Thats quite a bit from savlaging wrecks from my junky noob missions.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Anonay Hi all, I for one was realy looking forward to salvaging, oh how i was so wrong. Its a mess plain and simple, even the new patch has not fixed salvage item drops adn certain types or NPC dont give salvage!!!!! I am not hte only one who feels like this i fear I dissagree. I like the salvage system since the patch. Works much better. And it does not take all that long to salvage. As to not always getting salvage? While I'm not super-keen on the mechanic it's not a bug, it's an intended feature. Personally I don't do missions, I prefer to go ratting in 0.0. Less time required to do so even if the ISK/Hour may be slightly lower than some of the level 4 missions (though I've found that if I do it right I can make as much or more). As to the salvage item 'drops'? They are MUCH more frequent now. I am getting much more salvage in the same ammt of time than before.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Redart /agreed I was quite disappointed as well. The amount of materials it takes to actually create anything is insane compared to the amount of time it takes to gather those materials. I was quite happy with my 13 Burned Circuits untill I realized I need 350 to actually create anything. I got 12 burned circuits in under an 30 minutes ratting last night. Maybe you are salvaging in the wrong areas?
Psionist	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Redart The point that makes me mad isn't the fact that it's so hard to gather the items, but the fact is that we have ALL these useless wrecks cluttering space... for what? The chance some salvager might come by and take some of them? Well I can say personally that I love coming across a cache of 20-30 wrecks laying around from some guy mining or ratting. I salvage them quick and make profit for no work. Originally by: Redart And you can't remove them from the overview if you're ratting for money, because you want the loot inside of them. So when you go to a heavily ratted belt you see 50 freaking wrecks obscuring your NPC notifications. A few times last night I thought I had killed everything, but what do ya know... had 2 or 3 frigs left buried in the wreck clutter. Simple solution is what I do during missions, remove wrecks from the overview while you fight and return them when you're done killing. Its very quick, you just rightclick and add/remove. Also this is from the patch notes: "Inspected and un-inspected Wrecks can be filtered via Overview settings. "Apply to Ships Only" must not be selected in the Overview preferences for this to function." This seems to imply that you can have inspected wrecks vanish from the overview as you loot them, thus reducing clutter while still leaving them for salvagers. (me)
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:14:00 - [13] Edited by: DarkMatter on 14/12/2006 20:15:56 I salvaged for 4 hours last night in 0.5 space, ended up with ~70 components... Looking at the distribution of the parts I got, I'm looking at 30 hours of solo salvaging in high sec to make a single Salvage Tackle 1 rig... (which uses a lot less components than most rigs) I would imagine in 0.0 it would only take me 4-5 hours to get the comps for 1 rig... I guess if rigs cost about the same as 5 hours of high end 0.0 mining, we're ok... (I have not mined in so long don't even know what 5 hours of solo crock mining yeilds these days...) You certainly will not be able to make a living salvaging & building rigs in high sec, it's definitely another career for those out in 0.0 space. As it would be safer to salvage in 0.0 than low sec... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Doc Extropy Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:19:00 - [14] Now, dear CCP, if you manage to reduce building requirements by a factor of 5 - 10 we all can be happy. The first step was in the right direction, now lets try the second (and last) one. Should be possible, isn't it? Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Redart Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:24:00 - [15] Edited by: Redart on 14/12/2006 20:27:03 Originally by: Doc Extropy Now, dear CCP, if you manage to reduce building requirements by a factor of 5 - 10 we all can be happy. The first step was in the right direction, now lets try the second (and last) one. Should be possible, isn't it? Exactly. With even n00b ships having more than 1 rig slots, there is no reason for a rig to cost 50-200mil min. Seriously, who's going to fly a Cruiser with 100mil worth of rigs that don't do an insane amount of buffing for the cost? For that matter, who's going to fly a Battleship with 200mil worth of rigs? Some ppl might, but I don't see that very many would. The way I see it, it should either be reduced down as it is to about 50 of this and 10 of that with 20 of these. Personally, I would rather see it as 100 of this, 30 of this and ONE of that thing. But "that thing" is rare... rarity would set the price. Not spending 20hrs to make a crappy rig. Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
Merrick Solipsus Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:28:00 - [16] Why does everyone feel the market should be flooded with rigs? If you dont like salvaging dont do it. If you dont want to pay the price for them dont buy them. Not every item needs to be so numerous that they sell for 5 mil.
Doc Extropy Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Merrick Solipsus Why does everyone feel the market should be flooded with rigs? If you dont like salvaging dont do it. If you dont want to pay the price for them dont buy them. Not every item needs to be so numerous that they sell for 5 mil. Rigs need to be that numerous because they will give us more diversity in ship setups than ever before. They are not wtfuber, they are more like having access to a few hidden dip switches, nothing else, like back in the early 90's when everyone and his brother could have boosted his computers hard drive by setting two jumpers on the IDE controller board. Imagine a rig like this one for your old 486 pc: Harddisk data pump I Increases harddisk data throughput at the expense of reliability. Bonus: 15% Drawback: 10% Required skill: Data storage rigging I \| \|--- Screwdriver operation III Thats all about it. Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:37:00 - [18] Edited by: Galk on 14/12/2006 20:42:31 You guys are missing it so badly... It's a mini profession, not something that you should be able ace after npc'ing in a few belts, or droping a few missions and expecting salvaging to be as rewarding for your short time spent doing it. I don't wish to be critical, but y'all need to broaden your scope a little bit.... Quote a dev from the other week, can't remember who it was.... "hopefully someday(soon?) we will see dedicated salvage crews)" ______
Doc Extropy Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Galk You guys are missing it so badly... It's a mini profession, not something that you should be able ace after npc'ing in a few belts, or droping a few missions and expecting salvaging to be rewarding for your time spent doing it. I don't wish to be critical, but y'all need to broaden your scope a little bit.... Quote a dev from the other week, can't remember who it was.... "hopefully someday(soon?) we will see dedicated salvage crews)" Won't happen. Mining is boring, but it is like pvp on the testserver in disposable battleships and hacs when compared with salvaging. Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Jeanpierre Duvall Caldari Spectral Armada Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:46:00 - [20] Hmm... Maybe ppl could just sell their mission BM's to the wrecks. And yes some ppl would exploit it. But then again you would only buy from that toon once and we'ra talking about maybe 1-2 mil for a Wreck BM.. I would buy Wreck spots.. Since I usually don't have time to mission that much.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:50:00 - [21] Salvaging IMO is sadly broken. A) Drop rates are so low that no one wants to salvage them anymore, so they just sit there cluttering belts. B) If there's anything in the wreck you have to get to the wreck to empty it (yet the salvagers have a 5km range?!!?). Salvaging should automatically dump the loot into your cargo. If it won't fit it's either destroyed or 'salvaged' into additional components.
Drachma Golea	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:50:00 - [22] I must say that i do not see the need for salvaging... the rigs are not getting me anything... I can handle every rat in my boat... if the rats are becoming harder...(and of course the reward also!) then yes, it would be a lot more attractive...
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Drachma Golea I must say that i do not see the need for salvaging... the rigs are not getting me anything... I can handle every rat in my boat... if the rats are becoming harder...(and of course the reward also!) then yes, it would be a lot more attractive... ***, and I thought that I was a .
Ebodhisatva Gallente hunter killers	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Spy4Hire Salvaging IMO is sadly broken. A) Drop rates are so low that no one wants to salvage them anymore, so they just sit there cluttering belts. B) If there's anything in the wreck you have to get to the wreck to empty it (yet the salvagers have a 5km range?!!?). Salvaging should automatically dump the loot into your cargo. If it won't fit it's either destroyed or 'salvaged' into additional components. A.1) From what i have heard... /signed B.1) Nahhh it should be some challenge... but then again... lottery isn't a challenge either :-) Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:22:00 - [25] From what I saw last night I think the drops come often enough maybe to much. I was very supprised to see how much I could get from one frig now. In one night I added maybe over 25% of my previous stock. I know last night I have 45% of the materials to build one rig and by the end of the night I had over 70% and I didn't kill that many NPC's I think you all are expecting to much. If salvaging is as good as you all say it should be, everyone would do it and than everyone would have rigs and there would be no point to them. As it is now they might become a some what profitable carrer if done right. And be more worth while than a t1 modual. Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 14/12/2006 20:00:00 Originally by: Psionist 38 various salvage items Multiply that by 10 and you have 1/5th of the materials it takes to create a single rig. The point that makes me mad isn't the fact that it's so hard to gather the items, but the fact is that we have ALL these useless wrecks cluttering space... for what? The chance some salvager might come by and take some of them? Yup thats what I do. Quote: And you can't remove them from the overview if you're ratting for money, because you want the loot inside of them. So when you go to a heavily ratted belt you see 50 freaking wrecks obscuring your NPC notifications. Take the off of over while your fighting.. its what I do. Put than back on when you are ready to look for the loot. Quote: A few times last night I thought I had killed everything, but what do ya know... had 2 or 3 frigs left buried in the wreck clutter. It's just a "WTF" type deal. Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Natox Zaotox	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:33:00 - [27] I haven't seen a rig on the market yet, which does concern me. Two weeks with nothing even showing up on the public market, means people are afraid to make and sell them due to the price flux things are in, expecially now that circuits are going to take a dive in value. But I'm not so sure if its drop rate issues or just that no one has really set themselves up right to do salvaging at a serious level. I haven't heard of anyone making Salvage Tackles and trying them out on a ship yet to see if it speeds up the process. The skill book is supose help you by 5% per level, and these rigs are supose to help another 10% each, meaning 3 rigs = better than Salvage V. Add that having the Salvage I on your ship adds 5% itself and basically this means that 3 Salvage Tackles on a ship would double your ability in salvaging if you had Salvage V trained, giving you a 60%. But how does this 'ability' to salvage actually work? Does it make the cycles succede more often? Does it get you more drops when you succede in finding drops? Does it just make it so you don't get the 'unfortunatly there was nothing of value' message as often and get parts more often instead? Doesn't look like anyone knows for sure yet, and until someone tries it out, we won't know. We don't know if equiping up a ship with salvage tackles will be a big benefit or not yet. But it would make sense to me if someone fitted themselves up specifically for salvaging that they would have a better time of it than someone who doesn't. Would be the equivilant of someone who goes out mining in a Itron with a Miner I vs someone who goes out mining in an Osprey with 3 Miner II's, you do better if you get the right ship and the right setup for the job, at least thats how it should be.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:40:00 - [28] fwiw i think the drop rate is too high as it is. last nite i patched up and went out farmed a complex for about 3 hours during which time i picked up 270 rig components. granted this was under nearly optimal circumstances but it's still i think too much if rigs are to have any real value.
Dodona Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:51:00 - [29] You know what is even more ridiculous? Salvaging broken materials! Isn't salvage supposed to be the still-working bits and pieces of a non-functioning whole? As if anyone could actually use a fried circuit board.
Satsuki Kakuri	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:31:00 - [30] It would definitely be nicer if it didn't take up to a minute to salvage a rig. That just makes it incredibly worse.

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