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Is alt convenience worth the detriment to the game?

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Hal Morsh Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 399	Posted - 2015.09.05 17:44:57 - [1] - Quote Everybody loves their alts. I have noticed many times over though, that instead of people fighting and defending where they live and the resources, they log off in system and switch accounts, leaving you with your thumb up your ass. Then you come along later and there all those alts are ready to blow you up for their kill boards. There was a looped lowsec system without stations, so me and some other newbies went out. One in a buffer harbinger and me in a rep cruiser and a frigate as well. What happens? A Russian brings in a cyno alt, and a boost alt and black ops drops up before we can do a thing. Two black ops battleships with neuts. We find out those systems are all empty and unused, why? Because some Russian with dread alts bashes pos's in there too, one person couldn't do all that AND fund it on one account, but of course a few friends can't even play because he survailences those systems. More near the future I decide a one system lowsec pocket would be nice, too bad some Russians log on and blow you up. So they must be living there right? Me and two other people individual of each other show up in system to shoot the Russians and they all disappear (log off), so we end up shooting each other before we realize we had the same goal, they left anyways. So it seems you can't participate in these systems because alt armies are denying all the content, but not actually using it them selfs, they'd rather have incursion alts in safety to do the isk. Overuse of highsec pve content and underuse of lowsec all ties into the same people who just happen to have different alts. You couldn't murder people on wardecs and bad security status then go back to highsec farming without getting splattered all over the place. Individuals all working together would actually USE those systems. I was in a corp who tried to do just that, but we were small and the 5 people online didn't feel like fighting 30 isboxed thrashers. But I left corp and suicided a smartbomb domi when they didn't want anyone to undock. Threaten to kick me for undocking is not the best way to keep me in a corp. Trying out pandemic horde though, all the programs and things are getting annoying but they seem very organized and happen to look like a counter for such issues. I also typed all this on a mobile device >_< Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3269	Posted - 2015.09.05 17:52:55 - [2] - Quote Just let me get this straight. Some guy is dropping dreads and blops on you in lowsec and you, as a member of a 1700-character PVP alliance, respond not by setting bait for him and blowing his ass up, but running away to squeal on the forums? Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Bellatrix Invicta New Order Logistics CODE. 512	Posted - 2015.09.05 17:59:27 - [3] - Quote Do you find anything about Eve enjoyable? If you think you've won, think again. The CODE always wins.
Hal Morsh Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 399	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:04:33 - [4] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Just let me get this straight. Some guy is dropping dreads and blops on you in lowsec and you, as a member of a 1700-character PVP alliance, respond not by setting bait for him and blowing his ass up, but running away to squeal on the forums? This was back a year or two. Bellatrix Invicta wrote: Do you find anything about Eve enjoyable? Mining Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1367	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:04:46 - [5] - Quote Think he was not in Horde when that happened. OP, I'm not sure what the problem is here ... why bother whether the opposing side uses alts or not? A group of 5 real people should always be superior to an army of alts in a fight. I'm my own NPC alt.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2308	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:08:04 - [6] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Think he was not in Horde when that happened. OP, I'm not sure what the problem is here ... why bother whether the opposing side uses alts or not? A group of 5 real people should always be superior to an army of alts in a fight. Unless they are broadcasting, perfect ranges with perfectly timed alphas and perfect logi repairs can be better from alts. However, this is an aspect of EVE, if it is unfair, harsh then you need to find tools, ships and people to even the balance or overwhelm them in return. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
Hal Morsh Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 399	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:09:57 - [7] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Think he was not in Horde when that happened. OP, I'm not sure what the problem is here ... why bother whether the opposing side uses alts or not? A group of 5 real people should always be superior to an army of alts in a fight. Believe it or not I have proof of a Russian trying to argue the opposite. Malt Zedong wrote: Multiboxing is one thing. Using a software for that is another. Your argument of effectiveness imply that everytime someone multiboxes, they are relying on mirrored input over a network of identical and repeating actuators. That is far from the truth. The most effective multiboxers dont use hardware, or software to relay inputs over a miriad of clients. Instead they do play all the online chars by hand using clever coordination. And that my friend, is better than any same number of different people trying to coordinate their actions. As you may think, doing that is complex, requires focus and patience, so you dont do that all the time just for kicks. So the most of the times, you will see people just running around multiboxing identical fits in relayed input systems, like isboxer. But either way, it is still for the other person, nothing but pride in the way of just facing the number of oponents as they are rather than going around trying to feel yourself avenged by the fact that it was a multiboxer, not a group of real people. They don't like good fights, they don't like risk and they sure as hell love their alts so they just best happen to characterize the problem since there's no word for it all. They do highsec pve on some accounts and pvp on another few, now if there were only Russians left playing EVE, where would the content come from? Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Leeluvv Polarized 34	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:26:27 - [8] - Quote Think of it as paid for accounts, rather than alts. Now rephrase your complaint accordingly.
Hal Morsh Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 399	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:28:08 - [9] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: Think of it as paid for accounts, rather than alts. Now rephrase your complaint accordingly. pay2win and we all know plexes aren't pay to win. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Salvos Rhoska 1353	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:28:55 - [10] - Quote Russians are a world onto their own in EVE. They don't think on the whole, nor react, like you or I would. They are extremely serious about this game and their property in ways far beyond ours. I'm not kidding when I say they would sooner show up on your home doorstep, than they would relinquish even one inch of their territory. ------------
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 217	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:30:42 - [11] - Quote Russian Ivan evil. Loving vodka into 2 windows. Jamyl Sarum Jamyl Sarum in "EVE: Templar One"
Hal Morsh Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 399	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:30:58 - [12] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Russians are a world onto their own in EVE. They don't think on the whole, nor react, like you or I would. They are extremely serious about this game and their property in ways far beyond ours. I guess that would be an addition to EVE. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Salvos Rhoska 1353	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:32:49 - [13] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: I guess that would be an addition to EVE. I recommend relocation. Do not fk with the Russians. They have motivation, perseverance and an attitude that takes what happens in EVE on personal level that is orders above and beyond what the rest of us consider worthwhile. ------------
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 217	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:43:53 - [14] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Hal Morsh wrote: I guess that would be an addition to EVE. I recommend relocation. Do not fk with the Russians. They have motivation, perseverance and an attitude that takes what happens in EVE on personal level that is orders above and beyond what the rest of us consider worthwhile. On the otherhand, if you are so inclined. if you manage to defeat a Russian EVE player, you can be sure he has smashed his keyboard to pieces in abject rage. After that, prepare for a life-long vendetta, as he will remain in EVE for as long as he is alive, just to spite and attack you. Their reputation is very real, and very deserved. And monitor. Mouse we throw out the window. Jamyl Sarum Jamyl Sarum in "EVE: Templar One"
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 8414	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:53:03 - [15] - Quote The self-entitled butthurt is strong with this one. [b]---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
Hal Morsh Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 399	Posted - 2015.09.05 18:53:46 - [16] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Hal Morsh wrote: I guess that would be an addition to EVE. I recommend relocation. Do not fk with the Russians. They have motivation, perseverance and an attitude that takes what happens in EVE on personal level that is orders above and beyond what the rest of us consider worthwhile. On the otherhand, if you are so inclined. if you manage to defeat a Russian EVE player, you can be sure he has smashed his keyboard to pieces in abject rage. I caught a hauler of theirs in a daredevil, he was stabbed then called me a noob. Later when a curse was on my vexor he came in a polarized destroyer, which died. Might explain some things...................................... Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 540	Posted - 2015.09.05 19:18:55 - [17] - Quote Eating poutine while forum trolling so full TL:DR mode om my thoughts on alts. Alts arent the problem, multiboxing is easy is. If a person wants to pay twice as much to have two characters doing two things? Let em. I can do same thing in one. Issue is mundane tasks are mundane so can run in background. They are time intense lest you rotate with other stuff. Cyno alts, you light it up and that is it. What solo player would ever choose cyno vs combat exception bein bait cyno? Pvp alts only exist cause combat is advantaged to number of times F1 is pressed. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Estevan Valladares WorldTradersGuild.Com 8	Posted - 2015.09.05 19:49:17 - [18] - Quote Yes. Again the same issue by the same person for the same reason. For the other person, there is nothing but pride making people see problem where there is not. Pride of not being able to do so themselves or pride for other people not being bound by the same standards in order to enjoy or take the game seriously. It is indiferent for anyone else if it is five people incredibly coordinated and seamingly uninterested in other people or one person controlling five pilots. And most people dont actually bother about that. There are a few people who like to shout their malcontent but they hide their reasons. Some people hate alts because they cant handle them, and therefore think the person who can may be cheating. Some people wont spend enough for alts, therefore wants to forbid those who can. Some people get destroyed over and over by russian blobs, and cry in forums because they think it is unfar. In any way, still pride. WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
Marsha Mallow 2469	Posted - 2015.09.05 19:57:44 - [19] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: So it seems you can't participate in these systems because alt armies are denying all the content, but not actually using it them selfs, they'd rather have incursion alts in safety to do the isk. Overuse of highsec pve content and underuse of lowsec all ties into the same people who just happen to have different alts. Trying out pandemic horde though, all the programs and things are getting annoying but they seem very organized and happen to look like a counter for such issues. I also typed all this on a mobile device >_< You probably are going to get yelled at for ranting, but tbh I sort of agree (and occasionally venting like this might yield some positive advice you can use). Not only does having loads of alts allow you to evade consequences, it makes things have less meaning. I had 17 decs or something on my empire alliance. I used to log into talk to the deccers to take the mikey out of them, i.e. 'if you want to attack 5 faction dickstar/deathstar/resistars with 100 mods each on in your 3 man corp go for it, I want to watch you pound sand and laugh.' Only one guy saw the funny side after I took the mikey so long haggling over the wardec fee I ended up asking him to pay me for wasting my time. But like he said, he was just doing it for content. Ended up talking to him quite a bit, he was absolutely not griefing to upset people, at one point he put an alt into a former corp he had dec'd in the past to help them. He just liked playing solo and found decs a way to generate PVP on his terms. Problem with alts online - some like me are approaching 200m sp on multiple characters so... we don't actually need them anymore because they don't serve specific roles. I hate multiboxing too, so it's getting to the point I'm just holding onto them as investments/sentimental reasons or to cover more distance. It makes it very hard at that point to understand the complaints of people with less SP who struggle to have fun once they are under attack (wardecs/invasions/afk cloaking) etc. If CCP suddenly decided to change the game so SP didn't matter and we only used one alt I know people would go nuts, but I actually wouldn't mind. It is a system that allows older players or those with more RL money/time to farm to skip over the obstacles in such a way they can make it harder for other players. Yes, you can out-think people doing it, but you can't do that for a whole corp or alliance. I think the advice given earlier to move is probably wise, even if it's annoying. Sounds like a scenario you can't win so you may as well cut your losses and relocate. Salvos Rhoska wrote: I recommend relocation. Do not fk with the Russians. They have motivation, perseverance and an attitude that takes what happens in EVE on personal level that is orders above and beyond what the rest of us consider worthwhile. I know we're not supposed to use cultural sterotypes on the forums, but it's a mistake to pretend cutural values don't exist, and this one isn't an insult. I spent time in Russia as a child, and that attitude of perserverance really is evident. That's not to say other cultures don't do the same, but it's a matter of pride in Russia to be obstinate. How's PHorde anyway, I was debating putting an alt there myself to see what it's like? Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE! Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 494	Posted - 2015.09.05 20:11:54 - [20] - Quote IMO alts arent the problem, sure Id LOVE to see a one character and one account gameplay, but that simply not Eve. The development of content, that slow and arduous task to create content and build an empire lends itself perfectly to alts in this game because of its slow and methodical nature. Its something CCP desired in the game itself because it paid them more in the long run and now players are complaining when they cannot or will not do so in their game and are becoming posterboys for change. That being said I have 22 accounts and numerous alts I do stuff with. I built up such a vast array of accounts purely so as NOT to be blueballed by other players looking to ruin my fun in such a way as that the only alternative was NOT to play. This is an unacceptable form of gameplay imo and is the REAL detriment to the game of Eve Online. But then that is also an end result of a game where you are supposed to play the villain and actively seek to ruin others game play so that only the strong survive. It is jsut the nature of the beast in this case. I refuse to be hamstrung by anyone in this game and forced to log off and NOT play a game I enjoy and want to play. In that aspect its BAD game design and alts are the way around that as there is no real way to force only one character and account like you have in real life with the resultant consequences inherent in such a system. Would it in some ways be preferable to me? Sure. But would make a slow game even more unplayable and boring and people would flee from it like the plague. So I use the game mechanics to stop that from happening, stay longer in the eve world and therefore produce more content over those accounts in the long run. Yes it can be frustrating. Yes it can be annoying. But guess what thats life and thats Eve in a nutshell. Either use what you can and rise above it or just leave the game. Its your only options. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak. http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace
Estevan Valladares WorldTradersGuild.Com 11	Posted - 2015.09.05 20:22:50 - [21] - Quote Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: IMO alts arent the problem, sure Id LOVE to see a one character and one account gameplay, but that simply not Eve. The development of content, that slow and arduous task to create content and build an empire lends itself perfectly to alts in this game because of its slow and methodical nature. Its something CCP desired in the game itself because it paid them more in the long run and now players are complaining when they cannot or will not do so in their game and are becoming posterboys for change. That being said I have 22 accounts and numerous alts I do stuff with. I built up such a vast array of accounts purely so as NOT to be blueballed by other players looking to ruin my fun in such a way as that the only alternative was NOT to play. This is an unacceptable form of gameplay imo and is the REAL detriment to the game of Eve Online. But then that is also an end result of a game where you are supposed to play the villain and actively seek to ruin others game play so that only the strong survive. It is jsut the nature of the beast in this case. I refuse to be hamstrung by anyone in this game and forced to log off and NOT play a game I enjoy and want to play. In that aspect its BAD game design and alts are the way around that as there is no real way to force only one character and account like you have in real life with the resultant consequences inherent in such a system. Would it in some ways be preferable to me? Sure. But would make a slow game even more unplayable and boring and people would flee from it like the plague. So I use the game mechanics to stop that from happening, stay longer in the eve world and therefore produce more content over those accounts in the long run. Yes it can be frustrating. Yes it can be annoying. But guess what thats life and thats Eve in a nutshell. Either use what you can and rise above it or just leave the game. Its your only options. Just adding one thing. You have alts in real life. One example is the fact that people with money sets up corporations or funds in one, several countries or both, in order to have what otherwise would only be possible by bein multiple people at a time. The fact that I for example do work for one company in one country and for another in another country and live in neither circumvents the obligation of paying income tax in any. As I am exempt by not living in the country I work, and being exempt because I dont work in the country I live. There is actually no form of preventing it, like the US tries to, when you are obligated to pay income tax as a US citizen even if you dont live nor work in the US but you remain a US citizen. It is not exactly like that, but the final result is that which is the same as if it was. And the people with more money simply circumvent it by being multiple medium companies instead of one rich person. WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 218	Posted - 2015.09.05 21:28:47 - [22] - Quote Angry Russian pilot Russian pilot Jamyl Sarum Jamyl Sarum in "EVE: Templar One"
Kellie Dusette Isogen 5 10994	Posted - 2015.09.05 21:39:08 - [23] - Quote GÖÑ -¦-öGäôGäô+¦-ö pàñ pàñ -öGäô+¦-é-ö -ü++-ü-ò \|\| dus-ött-ö squ+¦dGäó \|\| -¦í-â
Estevan Valladares WorldTradersGuild.Com 16	Posted - 2015.09.05 22:05:48 - [24] - Quote Vollhov wrote: Angry Russian pilot Russian pilot One thing I could never really understand is how in EVE fiction pilots are in the ship. CCP cinematics used to show you in what gives name to the HYDROSTATIC CAPSULE (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capsule) but at the same time, they had it shown in other cinematics the capsuleer in front of a screen seated on a chair, which is not featured in the Capitains Quarters when you see the capsule opened. Also, they imply since day one that you are faster and more agile than regular pilots because that plugs on your back are a direct link to your nervous system to the ship you flying, which is also not shown in the regular cinematics. Now to the point: FOR THAT REASON IS IT NEEDED TO PUT THAT HAT TO MAKE THE PILOT RUSSIAN and therefore you need him to be fully dressed and seated, or it is just plain racist ? WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
Nihlus Valke University of Caille Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2015.09.06 00:30:27 - [25] - Quote Apparently CCP is struggling and needs all the income they can muster. No MMO developer in their right mind would ever allow this type of thing other than to compensate for a low (unique) subscriber base. That being said, there may be no EVE Online without people paying for multiple accounts.
Bellatrix Invicta New Order Logistics CODE. 514	Posted - 2015.09.06 00:35:50 - [26] - Quote Nihlus Valke wrote: Apparently CCP is struggling and needs all the income they can muster. No MMO developer in their right mind would ever allow this type of thing other than to compensate for a low (unique) subscriber base. That being said, there may be no EVE Online without people paying for multiple accounts. Citation needed. If you think you've won, think again. The CODE always wins.
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 220	Posted - 2015.09.06 06:26:57 - [27] - Quote Estevan Valladares wrote: Vollhov wrote: Angry Russian pilot Russian pilot One thing I could never really understand is how in EVE fiction pilots are in the ship. CCP cinematics used to show you in what gives name to the HYDROSTATIC CAPSULE (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capsule) but at the same time, they had it shown in other cinematics the capsuleer in front of a screen seated on a chair, which is not featured in the Capitains Quarters when you see the capsule opened. Also, they imply since day one that you are faster and more agile than regular pilots because that plugs on your back are a direct link to your nervous system to the ship you flying, which is also not shown in the regular cinematics. Now to the point: FOR THAT REASON IS IT NEEDED TO PUT THAT HAT TO MAKE THE PILOT RUSSIAN and therefore you need him to be fully dressed and seated, or it is just plain racist ? It's simple. We have Russian their clones. Cloning of old drawings, which to us handed over Lord Falek. We can walk freely on the ship, drink vodka, dance with a bear and enjoy life. Sorry for my English Jamyl Sarum Jamyl Sarum in "EVE: Templar One"
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2366	Posted - 2015.09.06 06:37:13 - [28] - Quote Nihlus Valke wrote: Apparently CCP is struggling and needs all the income they can muster. No MMO developer in their right mind would ever allow this type of thing other than to compensate for a low (unique) subscriber base. That being said, there may be no EVE Online without people paying for multiple accounts. The things the OP is describing have been around and have been much 'worse' in the past, when Eve was a lot healthier.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1370	Posted - 2015.09.06 11:11:43 - [29] - Quote The allowance of alts and the healthy number of 1.5 accounts per real person (average) is just the result of the nature of EvE as a competetive single-shard sandbox and the overall quite good balancing. You definitely don't need an alt account to have fun in EvE. I would wish that over time CCP rebalances the few remaining situations where a second player is not a good fit (e.g. OGB). I'm my own NPC alt.
Hal Morsh Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 401	Posted - 2015.09.06 12:10:14 - [30] - Quote I just don't like competing against other players wallets. I had a mobile game for spending on, they would have some shiny goodies once in a while. I used to play something called battle nations, and spent money. Then candycrush bought them out and completely abandoned the game. So I go to Gamelofts dungeon hunter series, and once my armor is about as high as it's going to get I spend 10$ on energy refills (yeah you use energy to play >_>) to earn enough points for an event armor, but AS IT TURNS OUT you have to at the same time compete against other peoples wallets on the leaderboard for only this event in order to upgrade the armor to any usefulness. So I may be done with that game shortly. In EVE I am competing against multiple accounts, which is frustrating as all hell. I can say i'm glad we have plex to counter chinese isk sellers but alts are more OP than any amount of isk in the game. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.

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