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Where's the manual!?

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Mr Mirage AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.15 00:53:00 - [1] I'm sorry, but for a game of thi size, the documentation is pathetic. There's a tutorial. There's a missile guide. There's a turret guide. What about a manual for scanning? Building? How to get t2 BPOs? Mechanics of cynos? How logging out affects play? I'm sure there are plenty more things to mention here... Fact of the matter: lots of things can happen in game that are b!"ú$it. At least if ccp documents it as ok, we can all play to it, even if we disagree with the sentiment/implementation. At the moment we are fumbling in the dark because no-one has said what should happen. When questioned, ccp admit to loop holes because they didnt think of the problem occuring in the first place. Ever thought of a question that you couldn't get answered by in-game documentation? Ever been unsure how skill bonus's work? Ever been unsure how 'stacking' penalties work? Would some fore-sight and some documentation help? HELL YES! We pay for a game. *Give us the f&^?%ú rules!**
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:00:00 - [2] Have a look here its not everything you wanted but its a start. -----
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:09:00 - [3] yeah i wish they would release formulas and mechanics for everything, instead of leaving it to the players to figure it out.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:12:00 - [4] Part of what EVE is about is discovering it for yourself. While documentation would be nice, it could be part of CCP's secret plan to get people to interact with each other and pool their knowledge. The New Citizen's Q&A forum is always a good place to start, along with this stickied thread.
Mr Mirage AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Blind Man yeah i wish they would release formulas and mechanics for everything, instead of leaving it to the players to figure it out. Yea, there have been insances of very long threads where people try and figure out the equations for whatever. What is the big deal about making mechanics public? What do they have to hide?
Zaphod Jones Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:29:00 - [6] Edited by: Zaphod Jones on 15/12/2006 01:38:41 I have a 11MB exodus manual, I'll upload it to eve-files and put a link in this thread. As eve-files is having a hiccup, eat some of my bandwidth and i'll upload to eve-files later http://www.celtic-anarchy.co.uk/downloads/eveonlineexodusmanual.pdf
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Mr Mirage Originally by: Blind Man yeah i wish they would release formulas and mechanics for everything, instead of leaving it to the players to figure it out. Yea, there have been insances of very long threads where people try and figure out the equations for whatever. What is the big deal about making mechanics public? What do they have to hide? It's called Intellectual Property rights. If they work their arse off, making a complicated equation to calculate damage, factoring in several different variables, then refining it so that it runs quickly enough for 25K+ simultaneous players to use it, they'd definitely make sure to protect it. It's like with pharmaceutical companies - every knows what exactly they put into the products, but do you see them putting their exact formula and manufacturing technique out into the public domain? I haven't seen a single CCP employee confirm or deny any equations that the players have put out, although some of the devs have given hints to us.
Zaphod Jones Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:38:00 - [8] updated with url ^^
BubbaZanetti	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:39:00 - [9] I have a manual. It's a little out of date, though.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Part of what EVE is about is discovering it for yourself. qft. this is half the fun.
Zaphod Jones Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Zaphod Jones updated with url ^^ not saying its up to date tho
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:46:00 - [12] a manual is handy thought but for MMOs they change so much that usually the published manual is out dated after the first major content push.
Mr Mirage AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.15 02:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Mr Mirage on 15/12/2006 02:38:58 Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Mr Mirage Originally by: Blind Man yeah i wish they would release formulas and mechanics for everything, instead of leaving it to the players to figure it out. Yea, there have been insances of very long threads where people try and figure out the equations for whatever. What is the big deal about making mechanics public? What do they have to hide? It's called Intellectual Property rights. If they work their arse off, making a complicated equation to calculate damage, factoring in several different variables, then refining it so that it runs quickly enough for 25K+ simultaneous players to use it, they'd definitely make sure to protect it. It's like with pharmaceutical companies - every knows what exactly they put into the products, but do you see them putting their exact formula and manufacturing technique out into the public domain? I haven't seen a single CCP employee confirm or deny any equations that the players have put out, although some of the devs have given hints to us. Rofl. Absolute rofl. You pick gaussian or lorentzian, or maybe hyperbolic, and fiddle with some parameters. I garauntee you, I have worked far harder on known equations than any ccp dev has worked on making a new one for damage or whatever. what exactly do ccp have to lose to other companies by 'unleashing' their uber formula/formulae? NOTHING. Your last paragraph only emphasises my point. Thanks. edit: Thanks for the 'manual' links. This should show that one is needed/wanted. Any excuse about patches/evolution/change in game stuffs, is just pure lazyness/apathy.
Giant Haystacks Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.15 03:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Mr Mirage I'm sorry, but for a game of thi size, the documentation is pathetic. There's a tutorial. There's a missile guide. There's a turret guide. What about a manual for scanning? Building? How to get t2 BPOs? Mechanics of cynos? How logging out affects play? I'm sure there are plenty more things to mention here... Fact of the matter: lots of things can happen in game that are b!"ú$it. At least if ccp documents it as ok, we can all play to it, even if we disagree with the sentiment/implementation. At the moment we are fumbling in the dark because no-one has said what should happen. When questioned, ccp admit to loop holes because they didnt think of the problem occuring in the first place. Ever thought of a question that you couldn't get answered by in-game documentation? Ever been unsure how skill bonus's work? Ever been unsure how 'stacking' penalties work? Would some fore-sight and some documentation help? HELL YES! We pay for a game. *Give us the f&^?%ú rules!** Forums and corp chat > manuals. If you have questions just ask them.
CaldoZ	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Marine HK4861 It's called Intellectual Property rights. If they work their arse off, making a complicated equation to calculate damage, factoring in several different variables, then refining it so that it runs quickly enough for 25K+ simultaneous players to use it, they'd definitely make sure to protect it. It's like with pharmaceutical companies - every knows what exactly they put into the products, but do you see them putting their exact formula and manufacturing technique out into the public domain? I haven't seen a single CCP employee confirm or deny any equations that the players have put out, although some of the devs have given hints to us. LOL ? I punch you on the nose!! Ahhhh, undocumented feature!! Figure it out by yourself!!!!! Nobody in this game can say seriously "RTFM" since there is no manual.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.15 06:43:00 - [16] ccp just started with their internal technical documentation project. I take bets on the appearance public game mechanics documentation for use lowly pilots. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
darklegionca Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.15 06:46:00 - [17] real eve players dont need a manual and as a male we dont read manuals anyway unlike our female counterparts ------------------------------------ darklegionca - One name. One legend.
Beringe Caldari Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.12.15 06:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Tachy ccp just started with their internal technical documentation project. Pretty much. They're trying their best to keep up with the changes, but there's just so many hours in the day. ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:34:00 - [19] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/12/2006 07:34:20 Yeah, I think ccp are building a Wiki so players can help update it when things change. Thats pretty good. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/12/2006 07:34:20 Yeah, I think ccp are building a Wiki so players can help update it when things change. Thats pretty good. That's what they said two and a half years ago. This time last year they started looking for a single person to start working on the internal technical documentation in form of a wiki. They didn't even care to remove the way outdated production and science guide from the official player guide. It is still showing the old system where we had to rent a factory or lab slot first. We got the unintuitive S&I interface for the clumsy new system for about 1.5 years ago now. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Mr Mirage what exactly do ccp have to lose to other companies by 'unleashing' their uber formula/formulae? NOTHING. Your last paragraph only emphasises my point. Thanks. They have nothing to gain either. I can't think of a single game, except Neverwinter Nights, where they've actually released details about how exactly the game mechanics work. All I was trying to do is to point out a possible reason why CCP refuses to release their documentation. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Shrug I don't see the reason for your hostility. If you have an answer why CCP haven't released their formulae, then post rather than flame people.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:13:00 - [22] They don't even explain in the player guide or the NPE/tutorial how flagging and the security system works. This lack of information costs rookies and not so rookies their ships, repeatedly. The devs promised a knowledgebase that is accessible ingame and out of game about two years ago. ccp more than doubled the number of employees since then and the result is zero. Would it be hard to keep the info up to date once the info is written down? No. Not if the dev in charge of the change had to document the changes to the system properly - or had someone to write down the change. This works all over in the software business. It is part of the job. Normally. Do you think that some bug necromancy could be avoided by such a system? Finding the same (and repeatedly fixed) bugs every other patch doesn't speak for a working change documentation system. Hint: The cap display bug is back again. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:29:00 - [23] At times, EvE brings me back right to my school days when a new game ) like Wizball would tell me to "wiggle" my joystick, with "wiggle" not in my english dictionary. Rated 95% and I couldn't figure how to pick up drops of paint. Hell I didn't give up easily back then with the lure of good stuff, and I don't do today. Except, you can always ask in the forums here. There's a lot of speculation going on especially after new things are added, but in the end you may just get a good answer. ) Except I didn't exactly pay for the game back then, so that's different today. -- Thukkers do
Arntdec	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:33:00 - [24] One problem with a complete release of in-game formulas, is that using those, players will soon find the "Uba Templ4T3 0f d0¦m". Wich is completly stupid because real game play is not really an equation, but the effect still exists.
Destiny Calling Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:39:00 - [25] Quote: How logging out affects play? There was a good example of this recently. Cry me a river, build me a bridge and get over it Do not call people noobs or wannabes. It's unsporting and not pleasant.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:49:00 - [26] The customers ain't stupid and find most formulas out within a few days. At least those of us that are interested in them do for most things. But it is a pita that even the basics aren't documented, like the way resistance works (A hardener reduces the remaining vulnerability by its stated percentage), and how stacking penalties work, or when you're allowed to shoot at other ships or capsules. There's no need for the exact formula. Do you know that standing -or what standing type- influences your market expenses? --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:50:00 - [27] I tihnk the Turorial and the normal FAQ are totally enough. Sure it takes weeks to really understand everything, I was running around with more "?" and anything for the first time, but you know what? ASK someone ingame if you dont understand something. Convo someone from local, or someone you see here posting info and ASK, we all started out, 90% of the players dont mind giving answers, and jeesh its an mmo! Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected])
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Chewan Mesa I tihnk the Turorial and the normal FAQ are totally enough. [...] I haven't seen you in the hep channel answering the same basic questions over and over and over. Mind coming over? Quote for advanced manual users: How do I rent a factory? --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:58:00 - [29] Originally by: Tachy Originally by: Chewan Mesa I tihnk the Turorial and the normal FAQ are totally enough. [...] I haven't seen you in the hep channel answering the same basic questions over and over and over. Mind coming over? Quote for advanced manual users: How do I rent a factory? Neither have I turned anyone away that convoed me with a question. It's all about a pilots will to find things out by themselves rather than waiting for the manual. Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected])
Zed Hound Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:00:00 - [30] The manual is in the same place as they keep the manual to life. There isnt one, figuring out whats goin on is the game.

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