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Tubiger ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 17:51:00 - [31] <3 Verone
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:18:00 - [32] Edited by: Nyphur on 16/12/2006 18:25:25 ISS is not facing internal strife. In fact, this war has made us all pull together like I've never seen. It's quite a nice sight. These battles are teaching our members how to better PvP in fleet-level events and helping FCs get valuable experience, both of which will definitely help us defend ISS assets in future. Resources are not stretched, that POS is only one jump from Tycho remember. Ships are being built faster than they're being blown up. EDIT: And Verone, it's not "neutral" any more, that word was too easilly twisted and was replaced with "non-political", in that we don't form political alliances. I suppose "defensive" might be better in some situations, to show that we will not attack unless attacked and essentially will only act in defence of our assets. But no matter the wording, it means the same thing. The ISS's stances have changed little, it's mostly the wording that's changed to better reflect the situation. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Layla Currie Followers Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:36:00 - [33] That is a blatant lie nyphur. Nuetral was a better word for you guys to try and use. If you were non-political you would not have involved yourselves in the conflict over U'K's outpost. If you were non-political you would not hold outposts in LV's space under political agreements with them. Defensive alliance works, but not a nuetral or political one. Just because you offer public shares in your alliance does not mean you are non political. To say that you guys are is absolutely false.
Velios M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Layla Currie If you were non-political you (ISS) would not hold outposts in LV's space under political agreements with them. As has been said many times before, it's not a political agreement, it's strictly a business one. M.Corp BPC Packages
Xander Magnus Caldari Wolf Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.16 20:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Layla Currie That is a blatant lie nyphur. Nuetral was a better word for you guys to try and use. If you were non-political you would not have involved yourselves in the conflict over U'K's outpost. If you were non-political you would not hold outposts in LV's space under political agreements with them. Defensive alliance works, but not a nuetral or political one. Just because you offer public shares in your alliance does not mean you are non political. To say that you guys are is absolutely false. OMG, when you think the days of the 'ISS isn't neutral!'-posts are finally over, you get the 'ISS isn't non-political!'-posts...
Paladineguru Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 21:08:00 - [36] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 16/12/2006 07:57:44 and you are? bawk! YOUR DADDY WOOOT :P BAWK!
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 21:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Xander Magnus Originally by: Layla Currie That is a blatant lie nyphur. Nuetral was a better word for you guys to try and use. If you were non-political you would not have involved yourselves in the conflict over U'K's outpost. If you were non-political you would not hold outposts in LV's space under political agreements with them. Defensive alliance works, but not a nuetral or political one. Just because you offer public shares in your alliance does not mean you are non political. To say that you guys are is absolutely false. OMG, when you think the days of the 'ISS isn't neutral!'-posts are finally over, you get the 'ISS isn't non-political!'-posts... Layla is a particularly vocal priory/iac alt, appearences slagging off ISS are guarenteed on any thread which provides an opportunity to do so. In fact many ISS threads are like a merry-go-round, about 5 or so anti-ISS trolls get locked in a vicious circle, and become convinced they represent wider public opinion in EVE. Sad, really.
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.16 21:18:00 - [38] Edited by: maGz on 16/12/2006 21:18:17 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Xander Magnus Originally by: Layla Currie That is a blatant lie nyphur. Nuetral was a better word for you guys to try and use. If you were non-political you would not have involved yourselves in the conflict over U'K's outpost. If you were non-political you would not hold outposts in LV's space under political agreements with them. Defensive alliance works, but not a nuetral or political one. Just because you offer public shares in your alliance does not mean you are non political. To say that you guys are is absolutely false. OMG, when you think the days of the 'ISS isn't neutral!'-posts are finally over, you get the 'ISS isn't non-political!'-posts... Layla is a particularly vocal priory/iac alt, appearences slagging off ISS are guarenteed on any thread which provides an opportunity to do so. In fact many ISS threads are like a merry-go-round, about 5 or so anti-ISS trolls get locked in a vicious circle, and become convinced they represent wider public opinion in EVE. Sad, really. Just like you continously post, convinced your oppinion is shared by the general public. Don't throw burned child over the lake when you leave in a car yourself ____________ The Priory Killboard
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 21:28:00 - [39] Originally by: maGz Just like you continously post, convinced your oppinion is shared by the general public. Don't throw burned child over the lake when you leave in a car yourself Whether you agree or disagree with what I write, at least I have the balls to say it myself, unlike 'layla'...
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.16 21:34:00 - [40] Originally by: Butter Dog Whether you agree or disagree with what I write, at least I have the balls to say it myself, unlike 'layla'... I agree on alts are crap and all, I was just saying that we (PRI/SOD/whatever) are not the only ones to troll. ____________ The Priory Killboard
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2006.12.16 21:51:00 - [41] Butter dog while counts reply to the one post in question was a perfectly acceptable one the others made by other ISS members were out of line, I quote a member of Lyrus associates, "Basically *****, an ISSO sanctioned mandatory op is any operation that Count says is ISSO sanctioned and mandatory. If you're online. You show the hell up, and do what you're damn told. Sophistry and pedantry like yours weaken us. We're being invaded. We can't afford to be weak. Being required to participate in operations to defend the alliance from external threats is the price you pay for being able to carebear in 0.0 the rest of the time. Deal with it." (names of the OP have been removed) Now while IAC does represent a clear and present danger like count says I didn't see ISSN and every southern corp rushing to the North when IRON and the rest of the North decided to set ISS to -10 and start camping Borealis. And while yes it is true that Iron did not attempt to take any POSs down or take the Outpost it self the same can be said for IAC they only camped ISS stations. To reply to Raid, while advantage does usually go to the attacker, I do not believe that is the case when you are in a "defensive alliance" as Nyphur said. Going back to Butter dog, just cause you whiped one corp into line doesn't mean that there aren't others who are becoming more and more jaded with every passing day. ISS isn't a pvp alliance and the players that are being forced to play POS warfare are not going to enjoy it when IAC has not made a move on ISS soverign space. Tardation Tests free of charge for those who sign up soon.
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2006.12.16 22:01:00 - [42] I'm not sure why people though for a moment that RSF would not be getting involved into this.
Lilan Kahn Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 22:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Torshin Butter dog while counts reply to the one post in question was a perfectly acceptable one the others made by other ISS members were out of line, I quote a member of Lyrus associates, "Basically ***, an ISSO sanctioned mandatory op is any operation that Count says is ISSO sanctioned and mandatory. If you're online. You show the hell up, and do what you're damn told. Sophistry and pedantry like yours weaken us. We're being invaded. We can't afford to be weak. Being required to participate in operations to defend the alliance from external threats is the price you pay for being able to carebear in 0.0 the rest of the time. Deal with it." (names of the OP have been removed) Now while IAC does represent a clear and present danger like count says I didn't see ISSN and every southern corp rushing to the North when IRON and the rest of the North decided to set ISS to -10 and start camping Borealis. And while yes it is true that Iron did not attempt to take any POSs down or take the Outpost it self the same can be said for IAC they only camped ISS stations. To reply to Raid, while advantage does usually go to the attacker, I do not believe that is the case when you are in a "defensive alliance" as Nyphur said. Going back to Butter dog, just cause you whiped one corp into line doesn't mean that there aren't others who are becoming more and more jaded with every passing day. ISS isn't a pvp alliance and the players that are being forced to play POS warfare are not going to enjoy it when IAC has not made a move on ISS soverign space. Your offical iss fan boy package have ben sent for you. it includs the following. 1 "i hate iss" T-shirt 1 iss fraktion hulk 1 iss fraktion basic miner for your dayli needs Originally by:** Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2006.12.16 22:12:00 - [44] lol lilan I don't hate ISS, I was a proud member of ISS for several months before I deemed it time to move on. While my posts are very anti-ISS, I am just trying to generate debate about how a large scale production alliance with a small PVP base (Praxis ISSN, maybe the graudates up north) is going to be able to handle an offensive minded war against an alliance that has a larger PVP base. I respect Count and think that this is a very bold plan of action, I just want to objections because as count said if an ISS corp objects they can consider themselves removed from ISS. Tardation Tests free of charge for those who sign up soon.
Lilan Kahn Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 22:15:00 - [45] maybe you havnt heard, we are removeing any one not being usefull or part of a bussin plan from iss. Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.16 22:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Torshin lol lilan I don't hate ISS, I was a proud member of ISS for several months before I deemed it time to move on. While my posts are very anti-ISS, I am just trying to generate debate about how a large scale production alliance with a small PVP base (Praxis ISSN, maybe the graudates up north) is going to be able to handle an offensive minded war against an alliance that has a larger PVP base. I respect Count and think that this is a very bold plan of action, I just want to objections because as count said if an ISS corp objects they can consider themselves removed from ISS. You can hardly say ISS are fighting this war on their own, nor is IAC. I'd be so bold to say, that ISS does not have the means to fight a war against IAC on their own (I know I'll be flamed for this, but it's an honest assessment of ISS' pvp-capabilities, having fought them for quite a while now). ____________ The Priory Killboard
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2006.12.16 22:50:00 - [47] No lilan I did hear that it, it disheartened me a little bit. The fact that ISS was meant to industrialize 0.0 and open it up for every one seems to be a dream long forgotten. The fact that ISSN is so rapid about removing every corp and every member who doesn't aid the war effort 100% is a bit sad. I understand the need for 100% participation and I have seen the effects that poor participation can have while I was in SMASH fighting for TDE. I would like it if you could address some of the points I have brought up about why the reaction to the IAC threat is many times larger then the reaction to the IRON threat or why ISS has decided to take a offensive strategy rather than a deffensive one. Magz I do aggree with you about the fact that ISS could not take IAC on its own but that isn't something that ISS will deny either. ISS is not meant to be a pvp alliance and because it is such a large production allaince it has massive ammount of capital avaible to spend. It would be stupid if they decided to try and take IAC and the Priory on by themselves when they can hire allainces like VETO and MC to help them. Tardation Tests free of charge for those who sign up soon.
Lilan Kahn Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:04:00 - [48] Usefull is a prety broad term, dosnt mean you have to go be in gang 100% of the time. Usefull coud be helping with the logistics. Usefull coud be surplying the minerals to resurply front line ships or mining ice. the removal of dead weight from iss is part of the restruktur that got brught along with the new charter. Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Torshin Going back to Butter dog, just cause you whiped one corp into line doesn't mean that there aren't others who are becoming more and more jaded with every passing day. ISS isn't a pvp alliance and the players that are being forced to play POS warfare are not going to enjoy it when IAC has not made a move on ISS soverign space. As attempts to 'seed' dissent go, I'd rate this a 3/10. IAC are not a PvP alliance, so you could apply your very same points directly to them. ISS are not bound to play the war IAC's preffered way. I can tell you this now: Everyone I speak to in ISS, dozens if not hundreds of people, have been full of nothing but committment and enthusiasm for this war. You claim 'internal strife' based on what? A single question on the forum, from one person, who later in the very same pledge commits fully to the war? Your whole post, and indeed this thread, is an unfunny joke. Come back when you have something of substance, other than your own personal random conjecture. Which frankly counts for nothing.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:05:00 - [50] Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/12/2006 23:05:43 Originally by: maGz You can hardly say ISS are fighting this war on their own, nor is IAC. I'd be so bold to say, that ISS does not have the means to fight a war against IAC on their own (I know I'll be flamed for this, but it's an honest assessment of ISS' pvp-capabilities, having fought them for quite a while now). Come off it, you havent 'fought ISS', you've camped a few gates, sniped a few ships, and killed some NPC'ing ravens with recon groups. Effective pirating, yes, but try seiging one of our outposts and see how far you get. edit: added 's' to raven :)
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:16:00 - [51] Originally by: Butter Dog Come off it, you havent 'fought ISS', you've camped a few gates, sniped a few ships, and killed some NPC'ing ravens with recon groups. Effective pirating, yes, but try seiging one of our outposts and see how far you get. edit: added 's' to raven :) In that case they have "fought ISS". Or does it only count as "fighting ISS" when someone engages in a protracted (and boring) war with POS and outposts? Seriously, chill out and have a bit of fun shooting people. Also, thought you werent going to post here once you rejoined ISSN? I can only speak personally but I was looking forward to not having to scroll past your posts again
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:17:00 - [52] Edited by: maGz on 16/12/2006 23:27:44 Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/12/2006 23:05:43 Come off it, you havent 'fought ISS', you've camped a few gates, sniped a few ships, and killed some NPC'ing ravens with recon groups. Effective pirating, yes, but try seiging one of our outposts and see how far you get. edit: added 's' to raven :) So unless we've sieged one of your outposts we haven't fought you? Does that mean what IAC are doing is just pirating as well? Seriously, I know you're biased and you really don't like us, but to claim that we haven't fought you guys is utter BS. We have fought several equally numbered fights against ISS, won some and lost some. You obviously wouldn't know about these fights as you weren't a member of ISS at the time. Please stop trying to belittle us by saying all we do is piracy - you know well enough that we are more than just pirates (EDIT: No offense to pirate btw )! ____________ The Priory Killboard
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:35:00 - [53] Originally by: maGz Please stop trying to belittle us by saying all we do is piracy - you know well enough that we are more than just pirates (EDIT: No offense to pirate btw )! Sorry, I did not mean it to come across in that way. You know I like and respect you guys. I was just drawing a distinction between a bit of pew pew, and full on hostilities. I don't think anyone in ISS 'hates' PRI, quite the opposite you definately have a lot of respect.
Algey ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:58:00 - [54] A few people in ISS do hate Priory, and I'd expect a few in Priory to reciprocate. Some people take things a bit too personally. I like Priory, I just wish they'd put guidance on links they post when my kids are in the room. I do find it funny that the op quotes one thread, and only the questioning post + the rudest reply. He doesn't quote the polite replys, or the fact that the poster is involved in the war, along with the posters corp. He also studiously avoids the happy resolution to the thread. Ah well, I guess we should get used to this sort of thing while the war continues. Shame really, it is no fun at all to read such mindless gibberish.
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:02:00 - [55] I know all i have done is quote a single post, ill try and add some more quotes but I am going to have to leave out the posters names for their protection "Someone needs to communicate to us how to get them then. I have been sitting in a shuttle in ISS Marginis for two nights with no ships I can fly available. When I asked in ISS Marginis channel there were 85 pilots in channel and the only response I got was a suggestion to try another region." "its basicly like this for most northerns: YOU ARE ORDERED to come south to assist in the war ! North player: right, i'd better head down there... North player: ok im here and ready to help South FC: you are too young - we dont trust you North player: ok im here and ready to help South FC: North player: hey guys! im here as ordered where do you want me South FC: North player: ok im here and ready to help South FC: no ships around - get one from empire / another region North player: right, back to PB where im wanted and apreciated" " have to agree with the post above. I've tried hard to help one or two out but there are no T1 frigs available, nobody will give them comms info for fear of inviting a spy in, so they are on their own and the next thing is you see a KM and they've died. TBH it's a wonder any have stayed down south as long as they have. This needs addressing very quickly. They must feel as welcome as a fart in a space suit." "From the other side: Carrier pilot from the north, I'm here in the south. Have spent hours doing carrier jumps for Sthymj, but have yet to participate in any combat ops at all. Granted all I'm qualified for is to sit at a pos and hand out my 8 fighters, but every time I've try to get information about where to be, or who to hand stuff to I get completely ignored. If you don't have a use for my carrier fine. I'll head back north and start running fuel in it again." all of these comments were taking from a single thread on your forums. While I see your point of view that I might be and most likely are attempting "to 'seed' dissent" I can assure you that was not my objective(and i am so sad that i scored so low) And I bet that the large majority is behind ISS and you completely but I doubt they all are, please do not make your response so hostile it was very hard to find the constructive elements of it for me to formulate this reply. Tardation Tests free of charge for those who sign up soon.
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:04:00 - [56] Originally by: Algey A few people in ISS do hate Priory, and I'd expect a few in Priory to reciprocate. Some people take things a bit too personally. I like Priory, I just wish they'd put guidance on links they post when my kids are in the room. I do find it funny that the op quotes one thread, and only the questioning post + the rudest reply. He doesn't quote the polite replys, or the fact that the poster is involved in the war, along with the posters corp. He also studiously avoids the happy resolution to the thread. Ah well, I guess we should get used to this sort of thing while the war continues. Shame really, it is no fun at all to read such mindless gibberish. I'm sorry the only elements of the thread I saw that I orignally quoted were the rude reply and Count's reply, I would be more then happy to have you post other elements from the thread, but since I didn't get my information about that thread from the ISS forum I don't know where to find it. Tardation Tests free of charge for those who sign up soon.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:21:00 - [57] Torshin, In an Alliance as large as ISS, there will always be questions, there will always be feedback. ISS management are mature and capable enough to handle that in a constructive way, which ultimately benefits the alliance. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to achieve in this thread, but whatever is it, you're not going to be able to change the fact that ISS are 100% committed to this war. Neither will you be able to change the fact that 99% of the feedback from members is positive. You think that cutting and posting a few of our internal forum posts makes your arguement valid. What you fail to mention is that for every one post with a constructive feedback or questions, there are 100 others which are universally positive and determined. One thing ultimately counts in this war. The end result. And of that, I am 100% confident.
Aero089 Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:24:00 - [58] Have to agree, I enjoy working with those ISS Bastards. Err. I need more brainwashing, I nearly got it right! At least I'm not shooting blues anymore! No but in all seriousness, ISS (or ISSN anyway, haven't really checked on other corps) are doing a good job during this operation. If the system would be less laggier than Jita for once it could have been more fun, but that's the price you have to pay for 500 folks in local I suppose. If IAC opens up their beer stock for us, we might consider taking a break from shooting them.
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:28:00 - [59] Originally by: Torshin This isn't a debate about whether ISS is neutral, this is a debate about the tactical descisions of ISS. That was my orignal attempt for this thread, since I used a limited number of sources for my arguement and am not involved in the conflict personally I have been forced to drift away from my orignal ideas and defend my motives for starting this thread. Since the discussion is no longer tactical and never truly was I apologize to Butter Dog and the rest of ISS since this thread can not be currently seen as anything more as an attempt create conflict within an alliance, while these were not my intentions that is what this thread has become. This will be my final post in this thread and if any one wants to continue a tactical discussion about the ISS+MC+Veto VS IAC+Priory and possible a few others, feel free to convo me or eve-mail me in game. Tardation Tests free of charge for those who sign up soon.
Belid Hagen The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:33:00 - [60] haha - he quoted me (the north player vs south FC bit) But your getting just about everything possible wrong. Everyone that that are having problems are complaining because we WANT to fight. We were not prepared for a war, but war was thrust upon us, and we've had some teething problems. There's no real dissent, no internal squables. With your access to our forum you should be quite aware of the multitude of positive topics in there. And you claim that ISS has stretched its resources - come on, you read our forum, you know the real situation.

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