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Feriluce Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:06:00 - [1] - Quote I'm currently caldari with about 8 mill SP, but I dont really feel like I've chosen the correct race, since I like guns better than missiles, and rails are apparantly not very great atm. The only caldari ship I'm really interested in atm is the falcon, but that would require me to get cruises V, just for one ship, which seems like a waste at this point. I'm therefore pretty torn between starting to train either amarr or minmatar, as I like both races. I'll probably mainly be looking at flying T2 and evetually T3 cruisers, possibly dabbling in BC's moving on to BS's later on. My shield and armor skills are at about the same (rather low) level, so thats not realy a deciding factor. Anyone got any input on what would be best to do in this situation?
Ayianapa C-Tech Developments 2	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:14:00 - [2] - Quote train up both and test battlecruisers with a decent meta fit. trying both yourself is probably the only way you'll find which you prefer.
DarkAegix Acetech Systems 520	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:19:00 - [3] - Quote Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly. Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks.
mkjkgkvk Melkan Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:20:00 - [4] - Quote grass is greener, get yourelf a pimp skilled tengu then cross train min for sub caps or amaar for caps
Duchess Starbuckington Starbuckington Manor 41	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:23:00 - [5] - Quote They call it Winmatar for a reason. Good/best ship in practically every sub-capital category.
Pryvate Pile State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:45:00 - [6] - Quote I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships.
Feriluce Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:47:00 - [7] - Quote How does the loki compare to the legion? The T3 cruiser would probably mark my end goal for now. Also, would it really be worth it to get caldari cruiser 5 just for the falcon and basically nothing else? Pryvate Pile wrote: I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships. Well I do have AWU lvl 2, as I'm nearly done with t2 small rails lvl 4, so getting 3-4 in that shouldnt be too hard. The main draw to amarr for me would probably be the zealot. Seems like a beastly ship.
Kahldor State War Academy Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:54:00 - [8] - Quote Since you already have caldari skills I would suggest at least keep training until you get a tengu. After that its your choice as to what you train for. If you are around long enough you will eventually have all the races trained. I started with gallente trained all the way to a Kronos (hybrids aren't so bad now). Then trained caldari originally just for the tengu but ended up stopping at a CNR. Then I trained Amarr all they way to a Paladin. Now I'm working on cap ship skills for a thanatos and archon. Of all the races I use amarr ships the most for missions and incursions along with the tengu for some missions(albeit rarely). And for PVP its drake all the way. I haven't messed with minmatar at all though and won't be on those skills until June
Feriluce Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.12.10 02:58:00 - [9] - Quote Kahldor wrote: Since you already have caldari skills I would suggest at least keep training until you get a tengu. After that its your choice as to what you train for. If you are around long enough you will eventually have all the races trained. I started with gallente trained all the way to a Kronos (hybrids aren't so bad now). Then trained caldari originally just for the tengu but ended up stopping at a CNR. Then I trained Amarr all they way to a Paladin. Now I'm working on cap ship skills for a thanatos and archon. Of all the races I use amarr ships the most for missions and incursions along with the tengu for some missions(albeit rarely). And for PVP its drake all the way. I haven't messed with minmatar at all though and won't be on those skills until June Thing is though, I dont really feel like flying a missile boat, and whenever someone mentions rails, all I see is "lol failrails", so I'm assuming they're not that great.
Pryvate Pile State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2011.12.10 03:02:00 - [10] - Quote 2/10
Feriluce Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.12.10 03:04:00 - [11] - Quote Pryvate Pile wrote: 2/10 1/10 for effort. At least try harder if you wish to troll.
Kahldor State War Academy Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.12.10 03:05:00 - [12] - Quote Feriluce wrote: Thing is though, I dont really feel like flying a missile boat, and whenever someone mentions rails, all I see is "lol failrails", so I'm assuming they're not that great. Well go lasers or projectiles. I know lasers are good from experience and I would guess people don't call minmatar "Winmatar" for being bad. If you can't decide flip a coin.
Feriluce Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.12.10 03:08:00 - [13] - Quote Kahldor wrote: Feriluce wrote: Thing is though, I dont really feel like flying a missile boat, and whenever someone mentions rails, all I see is "lol failrails", so I'm assuming they're not that great. Well go lasers or projectiles. I know lasers are good from experience and I would guess people don't call minmatar "Winmatar" for being bad. If you can't decide flip a coin. Yea well, thats the plan. I'm just looking for some information on the strong points of the 2 races.
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 244	Posted - 2011.12.10 03:17:00 - [14] - Quote Feriluce wrote: How does the loki compare to the legion? The T3 cruiser would probably mark my end goal for now. Also, would it really be worth it to get caldari cruiser 5 just for the falcon and basically nothing else? Pryvate Pile wrote: I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships. Well I do have AWU lvl 2, as I'm nearly done with t2 small rails lvl 4, so getting 3-4 in that shouldnt be too hard. The main draw to amarr for me would probably be the zealot. Seems like a beastly ship. Legion > Loki 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Kahldor State War Academy Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.12.10 03:33:00 - [15] - Quote Well Amarr Pros: Generally have the best damage projection Instant ammo switching Infinite ammo if using T1 crystals Nightmare/Paladin Scorch Used heavily in incursion fleets Cons: Lasers are cap hungry Ships/guns are somewhat harder to skill for EM/Therm damage only ships are harder to fit Minmatar (from what I've heard) Pros: long range good tracking selectable damage Mach Ships are naturally fast guns don't use cap ships are easier to fit Cons: use lots of ammo will be fighting in falloff most of the time ? don't really know of any others as I don't personally use them
Julia Connor Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2011.12.10 03:57:00 - [16] - Quote Feriluce wrote: How does the loki compare to the legion? The T3 cruiser would probably mark my end goal for now. Also, would it really be worth it to get caldari cruiser 5 just for the falcon and basically nothing else? Pryvate Pile wrote: I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships. Well I do have AWU lvl 2, as I'm nearly done with t2 small rails lvl 4, so getting 3-4 in that shouldnt be too hard. The main draw to amarr for me would probably be the zealot. Seems like a beastly ship. The legion has better dmg projection and tank compared to a loki. If you run incursions or ahac fleets (pretty rare from my experience) you'll see why. The only thing the loki is good at is runing away and tank flexibility but don't expect anything close to what a tengu, legion or proteus can pull off ... and of course DRONES!!
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 91	Posted - 2011.12.10 07:15:00 - [17] - Quote Both Amarr and Minmatar are great (also, hybrids aren't that terrible anymore), it all depends on what you want to do and what strategy you like more. Amarr is the "sit still, have good tank and shoot high dps at range" which translates VERY well to fleet combat but possibly less so to solo PVP. Minmatar does the "agile, fast, lower tank but more options and capabilities" thing, which is ofcourse great for solo. It does take a little bit more effort to fully extract Minnie's potential (simply hitting approach normally won't work, also damage type selection can make a big difference, stuff like that) but if you do it right it's worth it. There are ofcourse exceptions to this; Crusader, Curse and Slicer to name a few. These ships are fast and work well solo. For PVE they both have good ships but while the amarr one does massive dps it's very limited (again) in different scenarios, the Minmatar one (Vargur) is probably the best well rounded lvl 4 PVE boat in the game. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.
Fix My Lasers Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2011.12.10 09:14:00 - [18] - Quote Feriluce wrote: I'm currently caldari with about 8 mill SP, but I dont really feel like I've chosen the correct race, since I like guns better than missiles, and rails are apparantly not very great atm. The only caldari ship I'm really interested in atm is the falcon, but that would require me to get cruises V, just for one ship, which seems like a waste at this point. I'm therefore pretty torn between starting to train either amarr or minmatar, as I like both races. I'll probably mainly be looking at flying T2 and evetually T3 cruisers, possibly dabbling in BC's moving on to BS's later on. My shield and armor skills are at about the same (rather low) level, so thats not realy a deciding factor. Anyone got any input on what would be best to do in this situation? Don't fly Amarr. Every T2 minmatar hull is immune to your lasers. They've got 80-90% resistance to EM while you can't change damage type and they hit you with some damage you have the lowest resist to, like TH or EM. The only way to perform well is to mount ACs. But some of the ships can't perform well with them. After the hybrid buff lasers are the weakest weapon system atm - they require a lot and do a little. RIght now Hybrids do the highest damage, best tracking with gallente ships combined and good damage types. Also you can make a good range on blasters with Null. ACs are just good overall: tracking, range, selectable damage types and no cap use. And don't listen to the newbs, minmatar isn't OP at all. They are just versatile. Last weekend I had lots of pvp - I was more then happy with my hybrids. I don't feed the trolls.
Takeshi Yamato ALA Biomedical 29	Posted - 2011.12.10 09:19:00 - [19] - Quote Minmatar is the best overall PvP race, you'll get lots of good ships training them. Amarr, Gallente and Caldari are PvP specialists - they excel in certain tasks but are overall not as good, you'll get some excellent ships but many others that are so-so. If you don't care about PvP stay Caldari unless you want to specialize in Incursions, then get a Legion.
Anny Jackson Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2011.12.10 11:49:00 - [20] - Quote Train Drake and Tengu and then go Minmatar. But year, it's not a short way, because you'll need good heavy missiles and support skills at least. But heavy missiles is the best pvp weapon anyway, so if even you don't like them you gotta have them trained.
mkjkgkvk Melkan Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2011.12.10 12:14:00 - [21] - Quote Takeshi Yamato wrote: Minmatar is the best overall PvP race, you'll get lots of good ships training them. Amarr, Gallente and Caldari are PvP specialists - they excel in certain tasks but are overall not as good, you'll get some excellent ships but many others that are so-so. If you don't care about PvP stay Caldari unless you want to specialize in Incursions, then get a Legion. PVE too, lets not forget the macharial and vargur :D
Lunkwill Khashour Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.10 12:15:00 - [22] - Quote Train up frigs to choose a weapon system. Try incursus with blasters, merlin with rails, rifter with ac's or slicer with pulses. Based on that, make your choice for guns/ships to train.
Bamfordi Global Defence Initiative P I R A T E S 0	Posted - 2011.12.10 12:24:00 - [23] - Quote Pryvate Pile wrote: I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships. Don't forget they also have to train two types of weapon skills and armor and shield tanking skills. I would say minnie since this guy obviously has shield/missile skills already and minmatar i concede are pretty cool and widely viewed as the best in a lot of roles. TBH just look at the ships yourself and see which you like. I'm a fan of amarr and their gold burning awesomeness so i'm several several millions of sp's of pure godlyness, caldari arent that bad maybe think of becoming an expert in that field before cross training. But, its your game...have fun.
Kingwood Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 13	Posted - 2011.12.10 12:26:00 - [24] - Quote DarkAegix wrote: Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly. Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks. You're absolutely annoying. Just shut up, seriously. You can fit Heavy Pulses on a shield-tanked Harbinger just fine, same as with the Hurricane. You won't be able to fit 425mm ACs on an armor-tanked Hurricane. To the Op: Assuming this is for PvP, it depends really. Harbinger is a good solo and gang ship, and Zealot is win in small gangs (I've had more than 40 kills in my current Zealot running around in small Genos gangs this and last month). Minmatar has the advantage of easier fittings and more solo-capable ships like the Hurricane and Rupture. You can shield-tank both races, so that's a non-issue, although Amarr BS are primarily armor tanked. Minmatar usually fight in fall-off, while Amarr rules at medium combat ranges due to optimal. Lasers are pretty win, and even more so due to most ships being shield-tanked in 0.0. All Amarr T1 stuff below BCs is pretty crap though (except the Punisher and Arbitrator, maybe), while Minmatar is fine in that regard. Amarr starts having good ships beginning with the Harbinger and gets better from there.
Max Von Sydow Droneboat Diplomacy 77	Posted - 2011.12.10 13:29:00 - [25] - Quote Do like me, train both.
DarkAegix Acetech Systems 520	Posted - 2011.12.10 14:16:00 - [26] - Quote Kingwood wrote: DarkAegix wrote: Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly. Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks. You're absolutely annoying. Just shut up, seriously. You can fit Heavy Pulses on a shield-tanked Harbinger just fine, same as with the Hurricane. You won't be able to fit 425mm ACs on an armor-tanked Hurricane. Shield tanking the Harby is a serious drawback. Oh, and look, 425mm ACs on an armour-cane: [Hurricane, Brawler] 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Energy Neutralizer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Warrior II x5 Do some research before embarrassing yourself! Canes, and Minmatar, are easy to fit. This fit can even manage a medium neut. If you don't have the skill, drop down to another small one. Frigs won't be a problem, regardless.
Kingwood Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 13	Posted - 2011.12.10 15:02:00 - [27] - Quote DarkAegix wrote: Kingwood wrote: DarkAegix wrote: Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly. Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks. You're absolutely annoying. Just shut up, seriously. You can fit Heavy Pulses on a shield-tanked Harbinger just fine, same as with the Hurricane. You won't be able to fit 425mm ACs on an armor-tanked Hurricane. Shield tanking the Harby is a serious drawback. Oh, and look, 425mm ACs on an armour-cane: [Hurricane, Brawler] 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Energy Neutralizer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Warrior II x5 Do some research before embarrassing yourself! Canes, and Minmatar, are easy to fit. This fit can even manage a medium neut. If you don't have the skill, drop down to another small one. Frigs won't be a problem, regardless. Cool, as long as we're down-grading something: [Harbinger, heavy pulse armor tank] Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Hammerhead II x5 Gets 61.7k EHP compared to the Cane's 69k. 693 DPS (Harbinger) vs. 629 DPS (Cane), both non-overheated. Swap out ANP for EANM (CPU is tight) and yet get 65k EHP on the Harb. Go with 2x EANM + 1x ANP and you get 605 DPS with the exact same EHP as the Cane on the Harb which is fine considering you have much better optimal.
Sphit Ker Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 40	Posted - 2011.12.10 19:01:00 - [28] - Quote Dudes. Try your average everyday normal shield tanked hurricane on a Harbinger. They share an exact same slot layout so it should work, right? Nope. have perfect fitting skills. I'm out of CPU and PG by a mile. Fitting an harbinger is almost always tricky. I'll have to downgrade to Focused turrets. I'll have to settle for an Adaptive Nano Plating instead of EANM. Have to drop yet another Heat Sink. Fitting an Hurricane involve slapping mods on and that's it. It need a PDS for Tech 2 720s and that's it. An Heavy Pulse II harbinger can only dream of fitting a medium neut without crapping itself out with expensive meta 4 or doing something stupid like flying with only 1 Heat Sink or any silly variation thereof. 425mm Hurricane will boast TWO tech 2 neuts without breaking a sweat. Cap-less weapons, selectable damage type. On and on and on... Hurricane can nuke it's own cap using neuts and don't care one bit for it. What will happen if it cap out? Droped tackle for a bit. The Invuln turn off? Won't matter. It's still pumping DPS on target and you can bet your target will be capped out for good just the same. Want a medium NOS for the Harby's utility high? haha... ::sad panda: Now try and fit a medium cap booster on that Harbinger. It NEED cap to function. Fitting problems just got even worse. You think Minnies are not easy/too good? Im sorry I sound so harsh but you either have your head up your ass or **** for brain. The end.
Kingwood Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 15	Posted - 2011.12.10 19:22:00 - [29] - Quote Sphit Ker wrote: Dudes. Try your average everyday normal shield tanked hurricane on a Harbinger. They share an exact same slot layout so it should work, right? Nope. have perfect fitting skills. I'm out of CPU and PG by a mile. Fitting an harbinger is almost always tricky. I'll have to downgrade to Focused turrets. I'll have to settle for an Adaptive Nano Plating instead of EANM. Have to drop yet another Heat Sink. Fitting an Hurricane involve slapping mods on and that's it. It need a PDS for Tech 2 720s and that's it. An Heavy Pulse II harbinger can only dream of fitting a medium neut without crapping itself out with expensive meta 4 or doing something stupid like flying with only 1 Heat Sink or any silly variation thereof. 425mm Hurricane will boast TWO tech 2 neuts without breaking a sweat. Cap-less weapons, selectable damage type. On and on and on... Hurricane can nuke it's own cap using neuts and don't care one bit for it. What will happen if it cap out? Droped tackle for a bit. The Invuln turn off? Won't matter. It's still pumping DPS on target and you can bet your target will be capped out for good just the same. Want a medium NOS for the Harby's utility high? haha... ::sad panda: Now try and fit a medium cap booster on that Harbinger. It NEED cap to function. Fitting problems just got even worse. You think Minnies are not easy/too good? Im sorry I sound so harsh but you either have your head up your ass or **** for brain. The end. Dunno about you, but I'm able to fit this fine. [Harbinger, Shield tanked] Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Warp Disruptor II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Co-Processor II Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x5 Yeah, Harbinger can't fit a medium neut and I'm using a Co-Pro II, but it has Scorch and 26km optimal with 1x TE. I really don't get the whiners who tout all the Minmatar advantages like easier fitting yet ignore the other races' advantages. Not all fights in Eve are brawl at 0 - maybe it's time for you to get out of lol-blob fleets. Minmatar are fine, stop whining.
Feriluce Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.12.11 00:07:00 - [30] - Quote Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I think im going to go for minmatar for now. It just seems a bit more varied, and I'm not too fond of being out of cap all the time.
Shadow Mancer Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD. 2	Posted - 2011.12.11 03:39:00 - [31] - Quote 1. Matari's strength: good falloff, fast lock, better tracking, versatile shield tank or armor tank or nano phoon tank. Minmatar has vagabond which is fun and fast. 2. Amarr's strength: laser never run out bullets, good em damage. Awesome armor tank, Curse and bhaalgorn are uperawesome ships. I trained for.matari first than amarr
Korvus Falek Depraved Corruption 1	Posted - 2011.12.11 06:00:00 - [32] - Quote Max Von Sydow wrote: Do like me, train both. This guy has it right. Blood Raider ships ftmfw. Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu, Cruor = best ships ever.
VKhaun Vex Viziam Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2011.12.11 06:28:00 - [33] - Quote Feriluce wrote: Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I think im going to go for minmatar for now. It just seems a bit more varied, and I'm not too fond of being out of cap all the time. I'm rather inexperienced and wouldn't pretend to know enough to give a recommendation, but I think it should be noted that Minmatar don't have the capacitor strength of Amarr ships and nothing says you can't fly an Amarr ship with projectiles. I've seen a few threads about Abaddons with artillery, down to Vengeance/Malediction with auto cannons. Bonused capacitors that were large to begin with, using zero cap weapons has them pulling sick active tank numbers. You could easily have the best of both worlds training Amarr and projectile turrets.
Cedo Nulli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2011.12.11 07:50:00 - [34] - Quote VKhaun Vex wrote: You could easily have the best of both worlds training Amarr and projectile turrets. Using a bandaid aint best of the both worlds. Not to mention you still get neuted out by the capless boys with you shiny active tank setup.
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 385	Posted - 2011.12.11 09:15:00 - [35] - Quote If i was the OP, i would make sure i could fly and fit every Caldari T1 ship there is, then fly a select number of T2 ships. For example: - All T1 and T2 frigates - HACs, Recons, logistics. T1 all the way to BS though, including the badgers. Sink some SPs into gunnery, and aim for AWU 4 as well, then you can aim for T2 large projectiles (imo better than T2 hybrids). Then once you cross train over, it will take far less time to fit up and T1 Matar ship you like. Also, aim hard for the Tengu, ven if you dont get one straight away. They are awesome PVE income making machines should you ever get poor The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why?
DeBingJos T.R.I.A.D 147	Posted - 2011.12.11 09:54:00 - [36] - Quote As always, most of the people are comparing the wrong damage numbers. When a hurricane has 400dps according to EFT and a harbinger has 350dps. The harbi will still outdamage the cane. Reason is simple: The harbi will be fighting at optimal (+- 20km) while the cane will be fighting in falloff. I think most of the people in this thread do not fly the ships because this is BASIC knowledge! Yes BASIC!!! The numbers in EFT for minmatar dps should be halved if you want real numbers. Fix FW !
Takeshi Yamato ALA Biomedical 30	Posted - 2011.12.11 10:38:00 - [37] - Quote DeBingJos wrote: As always, most of the people are comparing the wrong damage numbers. When a hurricane has 400dps according to EFT and a harbinger has 350dps. The harbi will still outdamage the cane. Reason is simple: The harbi will be fighting at optimal (+- 20km) while the cane will be fighting in falloff. I think most of the people in this thread do not fly the ships because this is BASIC knowledge! Yes BASIC!!! The numbers in EFT for minmatar dps should be halved if you want real numbers. Hurricane still wins due to superior damage types, neuting and speed. Explains why Hurricanes are several times more popular than Harbingers despite shallow EFT comparisons.
DeBingJos T.R.I.A.D 147	Posted - 2011.12.11 10:53:00 - [38] - Quote Takeshi Yamato wrote: DeBingJos wrote: As always, most of the people are comparing the wrong damage numbers. When a hurricane has 400dps according to EFT and a harbinger has 350dps. The harbi will still outdamage the cane. Reason is simple: The harbi will be fighting at optimal (+- 20km) while the cane will be fighting in falloff. I think most of the people in this thread do not fly the ships because this is BASIC knowledge! Yes BASIC!!! The numbers in EFT for minmatar dps should be halved if you want real numbers. Hurricane still wins due to superior damage types, neuting and speed. Explains why Hurricanes are several times more popular than Harbingers despite shallow EFT comparisons. Using the 425mm AC and FMP setups posted earlier: Harbi: 68k EHP vs Barrage, 503 dps vs the Hurricane at 15 km. Hurricane: 93k EHP vs Scorch, 429 dps vs Harbi at 15 km. The Hurricane is 129 m/s faster and should win this easily. Troll? At all lv 5 skills WITH OVERHEAT and 3x Gyrostab II I get 375dps at 15km from a cane with barrage. ALL LV 5 WITH OVERHEAT and 3 gyro's Please tell my how you got your numbers? Fix FW !
Takeshi Yamato ALA Biomedical 30	Posted - 2011.12.11 11:12:00 - [39] - Quote DeBingJos wrote: Please tell my how you got your numbers? http://i39.tinypic.com/28clqvp.jpg
Fix My Lasers Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2011.12.11 14:36:00 - [40] - Quote Takeshi Yamato wrote: DeBingJos wrote: Please tell my how you got your numbers? Hurricane http://i39.tinypic.com/28clqvp.jpg Harbi http://i44.tinypic.com/3503yfo.jpg Man, you're wasting your time on some troll! Every non idiot knows if you want a good pvp fly minmatar. And the proper way to fly Amarr ships is to fit ACs since lasers suck the juice. I'm not saying minmatar is OP, they are just very versatile. So when Amarr gets lower PG req. for lasers and changeable damage types I guess they will be just like Minnies or Gallentes now in PvP. I don't feed the trolls.
DarkAegix Acetech Systems 524	Posted - 2011.12.11 14:50:00 - [41] - Quote Kingwood wrote: Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Adaptive Nano Plating II and Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Pseudoelectron Containment Field I lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues. Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either.
Lili Lu 52	Posted - 2011.12.11 18:44:00 - [42] - Quote Well, OP as you are somewhat new to the game I would say you might want to consider Gallente in the mix and not Minmatar. The reason for this is that you have already invested 8mil in skills for Caldari ships and making use of that later on there would be possibilities of flying pirate faction ships. There is no Caldari/Minmatar pirate faction. There are Sansha (Calamari) and Gurista (Galcaldari) ships. Amarr ships are armor tankers. No getting around that. There are some tech II and tech III missile boats using HAMs so any sp invested in missiles would not be wasted there. Cap skills reign supreme with the laser boats. And, tech II guns are necessary to get the most out of Amarr in pvp. In pve you can make use of tech I guns (beams). The eventual mission boat destination with having Amarr and Caldari is the Nightmare. It is a shield tanking laser ship. Acutally, it and the Absolution are probably two of the best incursion ships in the game. In pvp, the Abaddon, Zealot and Legion get used. Also, the Curse and Pilgrim in smaller scale pvp. Lastly, if you go logi and commands (a long distance goal really) the Guardian and Damnation are heavily used. Gallente ships are a more complex option in some ways. For pve you will want drone boats and your eventual goal would be the Dominix variants (Domi, Navy Domi, and Rattlesnake (yes even though it looks like a scorpion )). The Gila and Ishtar are also level 4 misison capable. Gallente and Caldari Hybrid ships are experiencing renewed interest with the recent Hybrid gun buff. They are no longer the dismal performers they used to be (Hyperion, Mega and even the Caldari Rokh). In pvp the Proteus and Lachesis show up a lot on killboards. The Mega has always been heavily used for pvp. The Taranis is a good combat frig. The Ishkur as well. Minmatar would not make use of any of your skills really. You said your shield sp was minimal. And, even though they often have missile hardpoints they often end up fitting neuts or other stuff there. Everyone who has no experience with them it seems are whining for a nerf to projectiles and Minmatar ships. Sadly if it happens CCP nerfs can be quite harsh. So there you have it. Hopefully you will have fun with whatever your choice is.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 464	Posted - 2011.12.11 20:24:00 - [43] - Quote Lunkwill Khashour wrote: Train up frigs to choose a weapon system. Try incursus with blasters, merlin with rails, rifter with ac's or slicer with pulses. Based on that, make your choice for guns/ships to train. This is not very demonstrative of how good the line up is. Small blasters rails were always good, We've never asked to improve them more but to improve med/large ones. Now we got realy awesome small rails/blasters and still meh med/large blasters/rails (actually this might has well come now from individual ship bonus that need tweaks) Overall Amarr have balanced sub cap lineup, some ships are crappy no one will doubt about this but you have excellent models in each ship type and you can't go wrong on this route even at cap level with archons revelations or leviathans. Minmatar are kings of the hill in sub cap but meh at cap level, gallente are total underdogs at sub cap level and not bad at cap level, caldari have some very nice ships on each cap and sub cap level. Imho. Go amarr if you're not intending to cross train soon (read double training race=more skills to train) knowing you can go from frig to titans they have always some nice option to use if not the best. Minmatar is the easy way to go, lots of slots, tons of pg/cpu, full guns dmg selection etc and very fun to use either pve/pvp
Kingwood Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 19	Posted - 2011.12.11 21:41:00 - [44] - Quote DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues. Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either. I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what? Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all. Really tired of your whining - put up or shut up. Edit: I should just put up a whine thread also arguing along your lines comparing the Drake to the Hurricane - complaining about how the Drake outdoes the Hurricane in almost every aspect and crying for a buff. Edit2: Standard PvP fits - so no retardedness fitting EM/Therm hardeners on your cane.
kyrieee The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2011.12.11 21:57:00 - [45] - Quote Kingwood wrote: DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues. Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either. I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what? Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all. There are implants on podmails now ;) Better method
Fix My Lasers Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2011.12.11 22:54:00 - [46] - Quote Kingwood wrote: DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues. Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either. I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what? Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all. Really tired of your whining - put up or shut up. Edit: I should just put up a whine thread also arguing along your lines comparing the Drake to the Hurricane - complaining about how the Drake outdoes the Hurricane in almost every aspect and crying for a buff. Edit2: Standard PvP fits - so no retardedness fitting EM/Therm hardeners on your cane. Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose. If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. I don't feed the trolls.
Feriluce Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 5	Posted - 2011.12.11 23:41:00 - [47] - Quote Fix My Lasers wrote: Kingwood wrote: DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues. Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either. I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what? Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all. Really tired of your whining - put up or shut up. Edit: I should just put up a whine thread also arguing along your lines comparing the Drake to the Hurricane - complaining about how the Drake outdoes the Hurricane in almost every aspect and crying for a buff. Edit2: Standard PvP fits - so no retardedness fitting EM/Therm hardeners on your cane. Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose. If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'd like to add that justin bieber also has a lot of fans. Popular does not have to equal good.
Rharkon Askari Mining Co. New Genesis Syndicate 1	Posted - 2011.12.12 01:19:00 - [48] - Quote I only picked up the game a month ago (took the trial, came back years later) and I have to admit that if I didn't pick Gallente, I would have picked Minmatar. I just like the design/names of the ships they've got. That's not to say that Amarr isn't neat-looking too. They're just in a close second.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 54	Posted - 2011.12.12 01:45:00 - [49] - Quote Fix My Lasers wrote: [ If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. Harbi has the same issue that Myrm does. If you shield tank, drake does it better, and if you need to go fast ....well hurricane is right there. As long as roaming gangs rely on speed and/or range that is going to be the way of things because neither ships is particularly fast or well tanked in comparison to the Hurricane and Drake.......or any of the tier 3s for that matter. So unless you are a RP'er that pigeonholes into one race, there is no real reason to fly a Myrm or Harbi over a Cane or Drake.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 464	Posted - 2011.12.12 07:46:00 - [50] - Quote Onictus wrote: Fix My Lasers wrote: [ If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. Harbi has the same issue that Myrm does. If you shield tank, drake does it better, and if you need to go fast ....well hurricane is right there. As long as roaming gangs rely on speed and/or range that is going to be the way of things because neither ships is particularly fast or well tanked in comparison to the Hurricane and Drake.......or any of the tier 3s for that matter. So unless you are a RP'er that pigeonholes into one race, there is no real reason to fly a Myrm or Harbi over a Cane or Drake. pick 10 harby, primary target "go" cane 1 is out, repeat.
Kingwood Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 19	Posted - 2011.12.12 10:37:00 - [51] - Quote Fix My Lasers wrote: Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose. If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. Doesn't matter, he didn't take the 1 on 1 because he was afraid I might bring a shield tanked Harb. Considering the Shield-Harb was put down in this thread because of having to fit Meta mods and cap issues I'm not sure what to say. Being afraid of a shield tanked Harb after so vocally asserting that a Hurricane absolutely destroys a Harbinger every time doesn't make a lot of sense, but so does a lot of the Minmatar whining.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 464	Posted - 2011.12.12 11:48:00 - [52] - Quote Kingwood wrote: Fix My Lasers wrote: Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose. If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. Doesn't matter, he didn't take the 1 on 1 because he was afraid I might bring a shield tanked Harb. Considering the Shield-Harb was put down in this thread because of having to fit Meta mods and cap issues I'm not sure what to say. Being afraid of a shield tanked Harb after so vocally asserting that a Hurricane absolutely destroys a Harbinger every time doesn't make a lot of sense, but so does a lot of the Minmatar whining. Why shouldn't Minie pilots whine? -I'd like 8-8-8 slots layout to finally have some issues to fit those hurricanes because people are always complaining how easy is to fit one (witch is completely true)
Kingwood Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 19	Posted - 2011.12.12 12:00:00 - [53] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: Why shouldn't Minie pilots whine? -I'd like 8-8-8 slots layout to finally have some issues to fit those hurricanes because people are always complaining how easy is to fit one (witch is completely true) Don't think you understand my position. I'm saying Minmatar are fine, and the whining about them is not justified. Anywho, I'm out of this thread. Hf
Billee Baub Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.12.12 12:36:00 - [54] - Quote This is a game that we play for fun. If you like the way Minnie ships look then fly em. If you look at a Tengu and want to fly that missile flinging beast then do that. The most paramount thing to understand is this, Pilot Skill is most important, SP's (no matter which race) are second. When you start to play you will see pilots in ships of every race doing just fine, the reason being they have spent time flying them and understand their strengths and weaknesses, they have trained in the skills to support those ships. There are many people that will tell you one race or the other is the better to choose, in my opinion if you like to fly one of the races then just do it, there isn't necessarily a "best ship" in eve. Everything can and will get blown up no matter how many people told you it was OP or the best. This is the whole point of eve, do it your own way. One of my Corps top ranking pilots fly's ECM boats only, personally I have never wanted to fly an ECM ship, but to him thats the best thing in this game. Hence he fly's Caldari ships and has a blast while I fly Amarr brawlers and do the same. The two styles compliment each other very well actually lol. As an Amarr focused pilot I can say that I enjoy the look and style that Amarr ships offer and thats why I fly em, just preference. Hope this helps.
Alaric Faelen Aquila Venatici Bringers of Death. 18	Posted - 2011.12.13 17:37:00 - [55] - Quote No race is 'wrong' in Eve, just cross train. I like to use Amarr armor tanked frigs like the Punisher, but with AC guns mounted. Sort of best of both worlds there. Lasers are cool and all, but due to cap limits, usually only viable on Amarr boats. Guns fit on pretty much anything so pick a tank type and go from there. Don't discount Caldari though. As already mentioned, they're geared to be the PvE win button, so grinding for isk to pay for PvP mayhem is made easier. Secondly, in the cruiser class, Caldari do well, making PvP affordable for low income players (like me). The Caracal can be a solid anti-frig platform, as I've been playing with, and the Blackbird is infamous for it's impact on otherwise cut and dried brawls- although that does mean training EW skills too. Also remember that a few other race's ships use missile skills too, like the Malediction that uses rockets.

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