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Feriluce
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm currently caldari with about 8 mill SP, but I dont really feel like I've chosen the correct race, since I like guns better than missiles, and rails are apparantly not very great atm. The only caldari ship I'm really interested in atm is the falcon, but that would require me to get cruises V, just for one ship, which seems like a waste at this point.
I'm therefore pretty torn between starting to train either amarr or minmatar, as I like both races. I'll probably mainly be looking at flying T2 and evetually T3 cruisers, possibly dabbling in BC's moving on to BS's later on. My shield and armor skills are at about the same (rather low) level, so thats not realy a deciding factor.
Anyone got any input on what would be best to do in this situation? |

Ayianapa
C-Tech Developments
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
train up both and test battlecruisers with a decent meta fit. trying both yourself is probably the only way you'll find which you prefer. |

DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
520
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly.
Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks. |

mkjkgkvk Melkan
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
grass is greener, get yourelf a pimp skilled tengu then cross train min for sub caps or amaar for caps |

Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
They call it Winmatar for a reason. Good/best ship in practically every sub-capital category. |

Pryvate Pile
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships. |

Feriluce
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
How does the loki compare to the legion? The T3 cruiser would probably mark my end goal for now.
Also, would it really be worth it to get caldari cruiser 5 just for the falcon and basically nothing else?
Pryvate Pile wrote:I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships.
Well I do have AWU lvl 2, as I'm nearly done with t2 small rails lvl 4, so getting 3-4 in that shouldnt be too hard. The main draw to amarr for me would probably be the zealot. Seems like a beastly ship. |

Kahldor
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Since you already have caldari skills I would suggest at least keep training until you get a tengu. After that its your choice as to what you train for. If you are around long enough you will eventually have all the races trained.
I started with gallente trained all the way to a Kronos (hybrids aren't so bad now). Then trained caldari originally just for the tengu but ended up stopping at a CNR. Then I trained Amarr all they way to a Paladin. Now I'm working on cap ship skills for a thanatos and archon. Of all the races I use amarr ships the most for missions and incursions along with the tengu for some missions(albeit rarely). And for PVP its drake all the way. I haven't messed with minmatar at all though and won't be on those skills until June  |

Feriluce
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 02:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kahldor wrote:Since you already have caldari skills I would suggest at least keep training until you get a tengu. After that its your choice as to what you train for. If you are around long enough you will eventually have all the races trained. I started with gallente trained all the way to a Kronos (hybrids aren't so bad now). Then trained caldari originally just for the tengu but ended up stopping at a CNR. Then I trained Amarr all they way to a Paladin. Now I'm working on cap ship skills for a thanatos and archon. Of all the races I use amarr ships the most for missions and incursions along with the tengu for some missions(albeit rarely). And for PVP its drake all the way. I haven't messed with minmatar at all though and won't be on those skills until June 
Thing is though, I dont really feel like flying a missile boat, and whenever someone mentions rails, all I see is "lol failrails", so I'm assuming they're not that great. |

Pryvate Pile
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
2/10 |

Feriluce
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
1/10 for effort. At least try harder if you wish to troll. |

Kahldor
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Feriluce wrote:Thing is though, I dont really feel like flying a missile boat, and whenever someone mentions rails, all I see is "lol failrails", so I'm assuming they're not that great.
Well go lasers or projectiles. I know lasers are good from experience and I would guess people don't call minmatar "Winmatar" for being bad. If you can't decide flip a coin. |

Feriluce
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kahldor wrote:Feriluce wrote:Thing is though, I dont really feel like flying a missile boat, and whenever someone mentions rails, all I see is "lol failrails", so I'm assuming they're not that great. Well go lasers or projectiles. I know lasers are good from experience and I would guess people don't call minmatar "Winmatar" for being bad. If you can't decide flip a coin.
Yea well, thats the plan. I'm just looking for some information on the strong points of the 2 races. |

1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
244
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Feriluce wrote:How does the loki compare to the legion? The T3 cruiser would probably mark my end goal for now. Also, would it really be worth it to get caldari cruiser 5 just for the falcon and basically nothing else? Pryvate Pile wrote:I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships. Well I do have AWU lvl 2, as I'm nearly done with t2 small rails lvl 4, so getting 3-4 in that shouldnt be too hard. The main draw to amarr for me would probably be the zealot. Seems like a beastly ship.
Legion > Loki
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me! |

Kahldor
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well Amarr
Pros: Generally have the best damage projection Instant ammo switching Infinite ammo if using T1 crystals Nightmare/Paladin Scorch Used heavily in incursion fleets
Cons: Lasers are cap hungry Ships/guns are somewhat harder to skill for EM/Therm damage only ships are harder to fit
Minmatar (from what I've heard)
Pros: long range good tracking selectable damage Mach Ships are naturally fast guns don't use cap ships are easier to fit
Cons: use lots of ammo will be fighting in falloff most of the time ? don't really know of any others as I don't personally use them
|

Julia Connor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Feriluce wrote:How does the loki compare to the legion? The T3 cruiser would probably mark my end goal for now. Also, would it really be worth it to get caldari cruiser 5 just for the falcon and basically nothing else? Pryvate Pile wrote:I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships. Well I do have AWU lvl 2, as I'm nearly done with t2 small rails lvl 4, so getting 3-4 in that shouldnt be too hard. The main draw to amarr for me would probably be the zealot. Seems like a beastly ship.
The legion has better dmg projection and tank compared to a loki. If you run incursions or ahac fleets (pretty rare from my experience) you'll see why. The only thing the loki is good at is runing away and tank flexibility but don't expect anything close to what a tengu, legion or proteus can pull off ... and of course DRONES!!
|

Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
91
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 07:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Both Amarr and Minmatar are great (also, hybrids aren't that terrible anymore), it all depends on what you want to do and what strategy you like more.
Amarr is the "sit still, have good tank and shoot high dps at range" which translates VERY well to fleet combat but possibly less so to solo PVP. Minmatar does the "agile, fast, lower tank but more options and capabilities" thing, which is ofcourse great for solo. It does take a little bit more effort to fully extract Minnie's potential (simply hitting approach normally won't work, also damage type selection can make a big difference, stuff like that) but if you do it right it's worth it.
There are ofcourse exceptions to this; Crusader, Curse and Slicer to name a few. These ships are fast and work well solo. For PVE they both have good ships but while the amarr one does massive dps it's very limited (again) in different scenarios, the Minmatar one (Vargur) is probably the best well rounded lvl 4 PVE boat in the game. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it. |

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 09:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Feriluce wrote:I'm currently caldari with about 8 mill SP, but I dont really feel like I've chosen the correct race, since I like guns better than missiles, and rails are apparantly not very great atm. The only caldari ship I'm really interested in atm is the falcon, but that would require me to get cruises V, just for one ship, which seems like a waste at this point.
I'm therefore pretty torn between starting to train either amarr or minmatar, as I like both races. I'll probably mainly be looking at flying T2 and evetually T3 cruisers, possibly dabbling in BC's moving on to BS's later on. My shield and armor skills are at about the same (rather low) level, so thats not realy a deciding factor.
Anyone got any input on what would be best to do in this situation?
Don't fly Amarr. Every T2 minmatar hull is immune to your lasers. They've got 80-90% resistance to EM while you can't change damage type and they hit you with some damage you have the lowest resist to, like TH or EM. The only way to perform well is to mount ACs. But some of the ships can't perform well with them.
After the hybrid buff lasers are the weakest weapon system atm - they require a lot and do a little. RIght now Hybrids do the highest damage, best tracking with gallente ships combined and good damage types. Also you can make a good range on blasters with Null. ACs are just good overall: tracking, range, selectable damage types and no cap use. And don't listen to the newbs, minmatar isn't OP at all. They are just versatile.
Last weekend I had lots of pvp - I was more then happy with my hybrids. I don't feed the trolls. |

Takeshi Yamato
ALA Biomedical
29
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 09:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Minmatar is the best overall PvP race, you'll get lots of good ships training them. Amarr, Gallente and Caldari are PvP specialists - they excel in certain tasks but are overall not as good, you'll get some excellent ships but many others that are so-so.
If you don't care about PvP stay Caldari unless you want to specialize in Incursions, then get a Legion. |

Anny Jackson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 11:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Train Drake and Tengu and then go Minmatar. But year, it's not a short way, because you'll need good heavy missiles and support skills at least. But heavy missiles is the best pvp weapon anyway, so if even you don't like them you gotta have them trained. |

mkjkgkvk Melkan
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 12:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Minmatar is the best overall PvP race, you'll get lots of good ships training them. Amarr, Gallente and Caldari are PvP specialists - they excel in certain tasks but are overall not as good, you'll get some excellent ships but many others that are so-so.
If you don't care about PvP stay Caldari unless you want to specialize in Incursions, then get a Legion. PVE too, lets not forget the macharial and vargur :D |

Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 12:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Train up frigs to choose a weapon system. Try incursus with blasters, merlin with rails, rifter with ac's or slicer with pulses. Based on that, make your choice for guns/ships to train. |

Bamfordi
Global Defence Initiative P I R A T E S
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 12:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pryvate Pile wrote:I like amarr ships as much as the next fleet smugdog, but for new players the obvious choice is minmatar. They're simply easier to fit and the ship progression is far less punishing for lower sp players. Anyone who argues otherwise has forgotten what it's like to have AWU-0 while trying to fit non-matar ships.
Don't forget they also have to train two types of weapon skills and armor and shield tanking skills. I would say minnie since this guy obviously has shield/missile skills already and minmatar i concede are pretty cool and widely viewed as the best in a lot of roles. TBH just look at the ships yourself and see which you like. I'm a fan of amarr and their gold burning awesomeness so i'm several several millions of sp's of pure godlyness, caldari arent that bad maybe think of becoming an expert in that field before cross training. But, its your game...have fun.
|

Kingwood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 12:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly.
Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks.
You're absolutely annoying. Just shut up, seriously. You can fit Heavy Pulses on a shield-tanked Harbinger just fine, same as with the Hurricane. You won't be able to fit 425mm ACs on an armor-tanked Hurricane.
To the Op:
Assuming this is for PvP, it depends really. Harbinger is a good solo and gang ship, and Zealot is win in small gangs (I've had more than 40 kills in my current Zealot running around in small Genos gangs this and last month).
Minmatar has the advantage of easier fittings and more solo-capable ships like the Hurricane and Rupture.
You can shield-tank both races, so that's a non-issue, although Amarr BS are primarily armor tanked.
Minmatar usually fight in fall-off, while Amarr rules at medium combat ranges due to optimal. Lasers are pretty win, and even more so due to most ships being shield-tanked in 0.0.
All Amarr T1 stuff below BCs is pretty crap though (except the Punisher and Arbitrator, maybe), while Minmatar is fine in that regard. Amarr starts having good ships beginning with the Harbinger and gets better from there.
|

Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
77
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 13:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Do like me, train both. |

DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
520
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 14:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kingwood wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly.
Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks. You're absolutely annoying. Just shut up, seriously. You can fit Heavy Pulses on a shield-tanked Harbinger just fine, same as with the Hurricane. You won't be able to fit 425mm ACs on an armor-tanked Hurricane. Shield tanking the Harby is a serious drawback. Oh, and look, 425mm ACs on an armour-cane: [Hurricane, Brawler]
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Energy Neutralizer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II
Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Warrior II x5
Do some research before embarrassing yourself! Canes, and Minmatar, are easy to fit. This fit can even manage a medium neut. If you don't have the skill, drop down to another small one. Frigs won't be a problem, regardless. |

Kingwood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 15:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Kingwood wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Winmatar. Easier to fit & fly.
Amarr is too frustrating. The Harby can't fit the highest sized medium pulses without serious drawbacks. You're absolutely annoying. Just shut up, seriously. You can fit Heavy Pulses on a shield-tanked Harbinger just fine, same as with the Hurricane. You won't be able to fit 425mm ACs on an armor-tanked Hurricane. Shield tanking the Harby is a serious drawback. Oh, and look, 425mm ACs on an armour-cane: [Hurricane, Brawler] 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Energy Neutralizer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Warrior II x5 Do some research before embarrassing yourself! Canes, and Minmatar, are easy to fit. This fit can even manage a medium neut. If you don't have the skill, drop down to another small one. Frigs won't be a problem, regardless.
Cool, as long as we're down-grading something:
[Harbinger, heavy pulse armor tank]
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
Gets 61.7k EHP compared to the Cane's 69k. 693 DPS (Harbinger) vs. 629 DPS (Cane), both non-overheated. Swap out ANP for EANM (CPU is tight) and yet get 65k EHP on the Harb. Go with 2x EANM + 1x ANP and you get 605 DPS with the exact same EHP as the Cane on the Harb which is fine considering you have much better optimal. |

Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
40
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 19:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dudes. Try your average everyday normal shield tanked hurricane on a Harbinger. They share an exact same slot layout so it should work, right?
Nope. have perfect fitting skills. I'm out of CPU and PG by a mile. Fitting an harbinger is almost always tricky. I'll have to downgrade to Focused turrets. I'll have to settle for an Adaptive Nano Plating instead of EANM. Have to drop yet another Heat Sink. Fitting an Hurricane involve slapping mods on and that's it. It need a PDS for Tech 2 720s and that's it.
An Heavy Pulse II harbinger can only dream of fitting a medium neut without crapping itself out with expensive meta 4 or doing something stupid like flying with only 1 Heat Sink or any silly variation thereof. 425mm Hurricane will boast TWO tech 2 neuts without breaking a sweat. Cap-less weapons, selectable damage type. On and on and on... Hurricane can nuke it's own cap using neuts and don't care one bit for it. What will happen if it cap out? Droped tackle for a bit. The Invuln turn off? Won't matter. It's still pumping DPS on target and you can bet your target will be capped out for good just the same. Want a medium NOS for the Harby's utility high? haha... ::sad panda: Now try and fit a medium cap booster on that Harbinger. It NEED cap to function. Fitting problems just got even worse.
You think Minnies are not easy/too good? Im sorry I sound so harsh but you either have your head up your ass or **** for brain.
The end. |

Kingwood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 19:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:Dudes. Try your average everyday normal shield tanked hurricane on a Harbinger. They share an exact same slot layout so it should work, right?
Nope. have perfect fitting skills. I'm out of CPU and PG by a mile. Fitting an harbinger is almost always tricky. I'll have to downgrade to Focused turrets. I'll have to settle for an Adaptive Nano Plating instead of EANM. Have to drop yet another Heat Sink. Fitting an Hurricane involve slapping mods on and that's it. It need a PDS for Tech 2 720s and that's it.
An Heavy Pulse II harbinger can only dream of fitting a medium neut without crapping itself out with expensive meta 4 or doing something stupid like flying with only 1 Heat Sink or any silly variation thereof. 425mm Hurricane will boast TWO tech 2 neuts without breaking a sweat. Cap-less weapons, selectable damage type. On and on and on... Hurricane can nuke it's own cap using neuts and don't care one bit for it. What will happen if it cap out? Droped tackle for a bit. The Invuln turn off? Won't matter. It's still pumping DPS on target and you can bet your target will be capped out for good just the same. Want a medium NOS for the Harby's utility high? haha... ::sad panda: Now try and fit a medium cap booster on that Harbinger. It NEED cap to function. Fitting problems just got even worse.
You think Minnies are not easy/too good? Im sorry I sound so harsh but you either have your head up your ass or **** for brain.
The end.
Dunno about you, but I'm able to fit this fine.
[Harbinger, Shield tanked]
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Warp Disruptor II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Co-Processor II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5
Yeah, Harbinger can't fit a medium neut and I'm using a Co-Pro II, but it has Scorch and 26km optimal with 1x TE. I really don't get the whiners who tout all the Minmatar advantages like easier fitting yet ignore the other races' advantages. Not all fights in Eve are brawl at 0 - maybe it's time for you to get out of lol-blob fleets.
Minmatar are fine, stop whining.
|

Feriluce
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I think im going to go for minmatar for now. It just seems a bit more varied, and I'm not too fond of being out of cap all the time. |
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