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NosDomi not overpowered, you say?

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Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:51:00 - [1] So I'm flying my Blasterrax back to my base out in Lowsec(I'm gutsy, I know) This Nosdomi with a positive sec status manages to lock on, close, and scram before I can align and warp(Took approx 3-5 seconds). I of course open up, launch drones, etc...it's set up for PvP. Fire off my Med Nos, webber, Scrammer, etc. Dude tanks the gate turrets, me, and my hammerheads simultaneously, drains my cap, and kills me when I can't even shoot back. Then warps out without his structure even taking a single ding(though he didn't have much armor left). Ended up to where the only thing I could do...was Nos back, ineffectually. He would've at least gotten hurt if I'd been able to shoot back! Maybe I should train minnie ships... If nothing else, it certianly makes solo pirating in lowsec way the heck too easy. Of course, he didn't get anything for it but reduced sec status and a thorough taunting. Well, except my four hammerheads that he stole.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:53:00 - [2] Edited by: Ithildin on 16/12/2006 13:53:37 Rejoice. Had it been an Abaddon, you'd been dead before your cap broke. Possibly even before you got lock. - EVE is sick.
Private Iron Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Ithildin Edited by: Ithildin on 16/12/2006 13:53:37 Rejoice. Had it been an Abaddon, you'd been dead before your cap broke. Possibly even before you got lock. QFT. Any battleship would have ripped you to shreds anyway -----
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:58:00 - [4] Edited by: Idami Raptor on 16/12/2006 13:59:32 Hehe. The thing that annoys me about it is that he was actually taking quite a bit of damage, and had to leave two of his ogre IIs behind to keep the turrets from blasting him(I woulda been the one swiping drones if my Velator was faster!) With the help from the turrets, he nearly got wiped out. Trick is, I had to stop shooting(Med Electrons. I need adv weapon upgrades!) because he sucked my cap dry. Looked like he was an all-Nos setup, and his drones were the only thing shooting me. Only took a couple seconds to drain me. Edit: Yeah, I'd expect a battleship to. Only reason it was as close as it was, the gate turrets. Those things do so much damage... Like I said, if I'd even just been able to keep firing the blasters, punk woulda been into structure before I died.
Damien Smith ExScape	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:58:00 - [5] You were in a cruiser, he was in a battleship. The usual way for cruisers to beat battleships is by using their smaller size and maneuverability against them. In this case you couldn't because he was using nos and drones. What did you think would happen? By neutralising your offensive abilities as well as your tank he just had to tank the sentries. Oh noes, call the nerfmobile! ----------- Join channel 'ExScape' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:03:00 - [6] Well, if you are going to make a comment about Nos(domi), get an example where you wouldn't have been killed faster if the guy had had just about any other battleship ('cept Scorpion). Fact is, not only would you have been dead by any other sort of battleship, you'd have been dead sooner with even less chance of retaliation. On top of that, since the Dominix actually had problems tanking sentries in low sec, it speaks volumes. A proper nosdomi is actually a pretty bad tank, it relies solely on denying the target to shoot back. - EVE is sick.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Damien Smith You were in a cruiser, he was in a battleship. The usual way for cruisers to beat battleships is by using their smaller size and maneuverability against them. In this case you couldn't because he was using nos and drones. What did you think would happen? By neutralising your offensive abilities as well as your tank he just had to tank the sentries. Oh noes, call the nerfmobile! In this case he couldn't because the Dominix set the stage complete with first strike and 0 transversal. That means death for anything, really fast, if the attacker is larger. It is fully possible to dance a Nosdom as long as you don't let him get the jump on you. Oh, and blasters really aren't good when you need to stay out of web or nos range, which you need when facing larger Gallente ships. - EVE is sick.
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:11:00 - [8] u need be uber like me to kill bs with cruiser else u just die period ^^ i am WIERCHAS i am like UBER and stuff
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:13:00 - [9] Edited by: Idami Raptor on 16/12/2006 14:14:35 yeah and it didn't orbit when I told it to...but that's incidental. Simple fact is though, Nos is the only module that works pretty much equally well across both races and ship class. In fact, I heard the finals of the big PvP tournament were determined entirely by which team could nos better. I played SWG, I saw the effect of having an alpha class. When there's one thing that dominates everything else, everyone flocks to it, and you end up with hundreds, even thousands of identical characters that all fight exactly the same way. Ain't good for the game. An Alpha Module is just as bad. It wouldn't be so bad if the effects were equal across race too. Right now it works better against Gallente and Amarr, less so against Caldari, and even less so against Minnie. Hybrids and Lasers take cap to fire. Missiles and Projectiles do not. It still shuts down anything active, including boosters and reppers, but they can at least still fire their weapons. Simple fact is, everyone that wasn't a Jedi on SWG screamed and screamed and screamed for them to get nerfed, and the jedi screamed and screamed back that it was fine and they should leave it. Simple fact is, it's the only module type that has small, medium, and heavy versions where the larger ones work BETTER against smaller ships than the smaller ones do. Of the other modules that have the same overall effect on any ship, it's one of the very few with no stacking penalty. There shouldn't be a 'Must Have' module, that is equally useful in any situation. You want every different setup to have a different, effective counter, so that no one thing dominates any aspect of the game. Simple fact is, last game I played where they had something that was this absurdly powerful, that game is now all but dead.
Felix Dzerzhinsky	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:15:00 - [10] Basically ya, the only way to beat a Nos-Domi is through overwhelming dps and/or range. Once its closed in on you - you die in a long and embarassing way. as for training Mini ships, you will be trading in some nice blaster damage for some weak and sometimes hard to find projectile guns. . .I'd say, stick with the blasters. Of course, you will be able to use the nos-domi yourself soon, and I always find flying the supposed 'overpowered' ships (I know you did not call it that, just an expression really) is the best way to learn how they are not overpowered. But the Domi is a very nice ship to solo in. As for the fight, I think a well skilled Raven would take a rax out in a volley or two, a Geddon could probably melt you in a few seconds. . .the only thing you could survive would be a Tempest, which would need some serious alpha to kill you right off, but after the first volley, you are ok to run or close distance and eat alive :)
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:20:00 - [11] Heh...I make a general rule that I will NOT use any setup that's dramatically overpowered, particularly if it's popular. I like being different, and I also like challenges. Having to use my own skill to succeed instead of some formula that's been used a thousand times. Simple fact is, in this fight...he was actually getting beat up pretty bad. He might even have lost his precious Domi(probably not, but you never know), if I'd been able to shoot. He was actually going down faster than I was till my cap ran dry(wierd, but true). Losing simply because of an overpowered module irks me. badly. Especially when I wasn't even looking for a fight...
NiGHTS	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:22:00 - [12] well you were in a cruiser and he was a battleship :/. ALL GOOD SIGNATURES ARE CENSORED
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:24:00 - [13] LOL at this post. any bs in game can tank sentries while killing a rax. ur dmg on him would be pretty low tbh and sentry tanking is easy. tbh the domi is one of the worst bs for doing that cos his drones get popped by the guns if u last longer than 30 seconds. a hyperion can tank sentry guns with 1 rep and using a 2nd rep to tank a bs at the same time. and sorry to say dude but taking a rax into low sec ballsy? i hope that's sarcasm. taking a 3.5bil vindicator in low sec day after day while -10. nwo that's what i call ballsy DE
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:27:00 - [14] No...my base is out in Lowsec. I have two more raxes, an itty, an incursus, an imicus, and a Navitas out there. I do missions out there, I mine out there(rarely, I hate mining). In fact, the only time I go back to highsec is to sell or buy items. Even most vets won't stay out in lowsec. They either go to 0.0 with their Corp or they stay in Empire.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Idami Raptor Heh...I make a general rule that I will NOT use any setup that's dramatically overpowered, particularly if it's popular. I like being different, and I also like challenges. Having to use my own skill to succeed instead of some formula that's been used a thousand times. Simple fact is, in this fight...he was actually getting beat up pretty bad. He might even have lost his precious Domi(probably not, but you never know), if I'd been able to shoot. He was actually going down faster than I was till my cap ran dry(wierd, but true). Losing simply because of an overpowered module irks me. badly. Especially when I wasn't even looking for a fight... He was in a Battleship, you were in a Cruiser. He did toast you, he should have toasted you and the gate guns in a low sec system should not have been a large impediment to that. The fact that if you were able to be shooting "he would have taken a beating" is a testiment to the strength of your setup or the weakness of his. However, that doesnt mean he shouldnt have toasted you. If he had been in any other battleship[for the most part] he still would have toasted you, and since you are in a cruiser and unable to tank damage for a long time, he would have toasted you even worse if he were in a DPS setup. NOS works well because you can drain a tank that would be difficult to break, or taken a long time to break and break it without having to deal damage. If there is no difficulty breaking the tank, then there is no benefit to fitting NOS. Put it this way, if he lost 400 dps by not fitting guns in the highs, that is 400 damage per second that he would have dealt to you.[and he probably gives up a lot more than that] You should have adjusted normalized HP of somewhere around 10000[armor/shield/structure +resistances] which means he would have toasted you, if you tank equalled the damage he was giving out when reping, in 25 seconds. This is highly optimistic. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:33:00 - [16] Edited by: Idami Raptor on 16/12/2006 14:34:29 I know he should've toasted me. Though if he hadn't had Nos, unless he had medium guns fitted he'd be missing a lot of those shots, so that DPS estimate is probably optimistic. In any case, all I'm saying is...yeah I lost. So? It actually helped me. The Insurance and remaining parts are going to outfit my two other raxes that were sitting empty. But...he might've died too, had it not been for that Nos. All I'm saying. :P Edit: Base HP was somewhere up about...uh....7-8K. With one EANM. No idea what that works out to normalized.
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:37:00 - [17] if you actually made it a fair piece into his armor i would probably be annoyed, but proud of the fact that he even noticed me shooting back at him. It's a BS versus a cruiser, what's the problem? I hereby remove my sig, sigs are evil, sigs are the devil and i suck at drawing...
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:41:00 - [18] That he was down to 10% or less armor left and I couldn't shoot? :P
Kirja	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:50:00 - [19] Play the game another year or so. Then maybe your opinion will matter . Sorry but "oh noes i got killed by BS in my cruiser" is just stupid beyond any reason
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:54:00 - [20] Has it occured to you, that if no new people play... that the game will eventually die? Some of you people need to wake up and realize that you can't discount new players or casual players as worthless...because without them you have nothing to play. The difficulties involved for both are already the reason why this game is such a tiny speck in the universe of games that matter...
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Idami Raptor Edited by: Idami Raptor on 16/12/2006 14:34:29 I know he should've toasted me. Though if he hadn't had Nos, unless he had medium guns fitted he'd be missing a lot of those shots, so that DPS estimate is probably optimistic. In any case, all I'm saying is...yeah I lost. So? It actually helped me. The Insurance and remaining parts are going to outfit my two other raxes that were sitting empty. But...he might've died too, had it not been for that Nos. All I'm saying. :P Edit: Base HP was somewhere up about...uh....7-8K. With one EANM. No idea what that works out to normalized. base HP? impossible unless you are really, really well fitted[or plated]. Your max shield HP[max skills] is going to be about 1904. Max Armor[max skills], sans plate 2051, and 2341 structure[max skills]. If you are using a plate that is a bit different, but it also means you are using small guns[or no rep/mwd] or is a small plate[and not as beneficial as extra resists for the most part. He is going to tear through you. Tanked well[2 eanm II/DC] that is going to be around 13000 HP[+/- 2000HP]. So yea, he is going to web you and then slaughter you. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Private Iron Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Idami Raptor Edited by: Idami Raptor on 16/12/2006 14:34:29 But...he might've died too, had it not been for that Nos. He hadn't fitted nos he would have an uber tank on and you wouldn't have even dented him. -----
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:58:00 - [23] Originally by: Idami Raptor Has it occured to you, that if no new people play... that the game will eventually die? Some of you people need to wake up and realize that you can't discount new players or casual players as worthless...because without them you have nothing to play. The difficulties involved for both are already the reason why this game is such a tiny speck in the universe of games that matter... Yes, but has it occured to you that you should have gotten toasted in a cruiser versues a domi, and the fact that he was so damaged is actualy a point against yours? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Idami Raptor	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:58:00 - [24] Edited by: Idami Raptor on 16/12/2006 15:01:10 Edited by: Idami Raptor on 16/12/2006 14:58:59 Four Heavy Electron blaster, one Medium NOS MWD, Webber, Scrambler Two Small Armor Rep II, EANM, Magstab, 800mm Plate. >P Edit: Note that it calls 'medium' class blasters 'heavy' blasters for the actual name of them. Wierd. Edit2: okay so goumin has a point. I wouldn't mind so much if it hadn't shut down my guns too. It's one thing for it to break a tank and other active modules...the guns too is a bit much. Thus the comment about minnie ships.
Dixon Caldari Hells Donkeys	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Ithildin On top of that, since the Dominix actually had problems tanking sentries in low sec, it speaks volumes. A proper nosdomi is actually a pretty bad tank, it relies solely on denying the target to shoot back. What? A bad tank? You can fit 4 heavy nos, cap injector, 2 LAR II, 3 t2 actives and an EANMII on that thing with one RCUII in that last low. That is not a bad tank. - - - - - - Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
Sedai Hara	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:16:00 - [26] So. You say that NOS are overpowered? I say t2 neutron blasters are overpowered as they can do 2000 dps on a BS. 425IIs are also overpowered as they can almost instapop my cruisers at 200km range. ohh! and t2 rage topedos are also, my Brutix goes down fast in a fight versus a Raven with those. Ofc you cant forget the Dampners! Buhuhu, some guy is sitting in a Battleship 40km away killing me while i cant even lock! it doesnt matter he sacrificed 4x Med slot for that! Well t2 Ogers on a moros is also overpowered! etc etc etc There will ALWAYS be a better setup than another in a certain task! You see. you can whine and whine and whine.. Doesnt make any difference. And plz, tell me when a Thorax accualy pwn a dominix! wont happen anytime soon. So. face it. you encountered a player that had a better setup for teh task that he was doing. to Kill cruisers.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Idami Raptor That he was down to 10% or less armor left and I couldn't shoot? :P in that case this guy was a but of a noob. my nosdomi dan tank sentries quite easilt while killing any cruiser and my armour will always be above 80%. if ur saying the nosdomi is overpowered then it's really not. without ecm now most decent tempests can take one down as they don't need cap to fire. nor do any missile ships. a couple of drakes can probably kill a nosdomi with passive tanks. how about a scorp then. that could have killed u at a gate probably and u won't have fired a single shot because you'd be perma jammed. how about a rokh wich would probably pop u a a few volleys while easily tanking gate guns. this is just a generaly bs situation. nothing special mate. DE
Dixon Caldari Hells Donkeys	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:28:00 - [28] Edited by: Dixon on 16/12/2006 15:30:02 Originally by: Sedai Hara So. I say t2 neutron blasters are overpowered as they can do 2000 dps on a BS. A maxed out blasterthron pilot will never reach 2000dps, it's just under 1000dps (w/3 damage mods) actually. And maxing out you blaster skills will take millions of skill points, heavy nos takes 16.000 skill points to use. Originally by: Sedai Hara 425IIs are also overpowered as they can almost instapop my cruisers at 200km range. Actually only a Rokh can reach that range (a mega will be in falloff) and the Rokh's alpha will not even 'almost' instapop your cruisers. Originally by: Sedai Hara ohh! and t2 rage topedos are also, my Brutix goes down fast in a fight versus a Raven with those. Well those not only require wast amounts of skill points they also require 3 medslots dedicated to target painters to do full damage to a brutix. Originally by: Sedai Hara So. face it. you encountered a player that had a better setup for teh task that he was doing. to Kill cruisers. The average nosdomi doesn't really have a hard time killing battleships, that's pretty good for a ship 'setup to kill cruisers'. - - - - - - Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.16 16:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Caletha A NOS-Domi is probably one of the strongest solo battleships out there. Yup, the Dominix is also the only battleship that can't be outfitted for fleet fights. Even Typhoons and Ravens can do that marginally well. Now, I don't defend nosferatus, but I DO defend Dominix. Take it from me, if you want to play something rewarding and really difficult, fly Dominix WITHOUT nosferatus. Suddenly you'll understand what it means to have fitting problems and weaknesses. - EVE is sick.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.16 16:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Caletha A NOS-Domi is probably one of the strongest solo battleships out there. Yup, the Dominix is also the only battleship that can't be outfitted for fleet fights. Even Typhoons and Ravens can do that marginally well. Now, I don't defend nosferatus, but I DO defend Dominix. Take it from me, if you want to play something rewarding and really difficult, fly Dominix WITHOUT nosferatus. Suddenly you'll understand what it means to have fitting problems and weaknesses. Or you could just fly Amarr. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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