Just because a ship has a bonus for something, does NOT mean you have to utilize that bonus. I fly shield tanked Myrms, and I would love for the active armor rep bonus to be damn near anything else, however, I am not assinine enough to think that because I do not utilize the ship's armor rep bonus that noone else does either and call for it's change/removal.

A realistic attitude, I like that.

Change the speed penalty on Armor Rigs (Somethin the Devs are considering) and Gallente will become so much better.

Cross train amarr or minmatar, have fun for once.

Just because a ship has a bonus for something, does NOT mean you have to utilize that bonus. I fly shield tanked Myrms, and I would love for the active armor rep bonus to be damn near anything else, however, I am not assinine enough to think that because I do not utilize the ship's armor rep bonus that noone else does either and call for it's change/removal.

My suggestion is to get rid of these armor rep bonuses (and the shield boost bonus on the Minmatar Cyclone, Claymore, and Mael), and replace it with another bonus, making the Gallente and Minmatar more variable when it comes to what they tank.
Perhaps give them a -5% cap recharge time bonus (and maybe a utlity high).
This higher cap regen aids them in active tank, or it can work to power a utility high, making the ship more versatilele (could power RRs, Cap drain, MWD, etc

Why must Gallente armour tank?

Because CCP designed them for hull tanking (hence, highest stucture values and mentions of it in the older lore), but decided part way through that hull tanking wasn't something they wanted to even go near, so decided to switch to armour.

Personally, for added flavour, I'd like to see hull tanking actually get a serious look in by CCP. Adding another viable method of tanking could be rather interesting.

Gallente need to armor tank because CCP decided that hull tanking should not be viable. If hull reps were as good as armor reps, and bulkheads didn't slow you down so much (and had variations similar to the armor plates/shield extenders) gallente would be perfect for hull tanking.

They have the right mix of mids and lows to do it.
They have the most hull HP.
We already have a race that armor tanks, one that shield tanks, and one that does a bit of everything (including speed/sig tank).

Verity always seems to want what she/he can't have.

Honestly, I would prefer it if the Gal ships mentioned (and you should probably include the Thorax too, because it often shield fit) could excel WITHOUT having to fit shields. Give armor tankers a less effective, but still viable armor-tank "speed" option that is all but necessary on blaster boats. Current armor rigs completly destroy speed for the blaster race that needs it the most.

And yet, other races get bonuses which are always useful.

I like the idea of hull tanking based on lore but it is extremely impractical. You get no safety net to realize your tank is failing, and you have an armour and a hull repair bill to pay if you are not using reppers.

So basically you're saying it's for real men?

So, Gallente have issues because buffer tanks slow them down, as do armor rigs....but active tanks don't require armor rigs to be effective (though they'd be nice), and don't add mass like plates do....why don't they do something with this?

EDIT: The other problem with the Gallente blaster boats is that they dont have a utility high-slot. For an "active tanking" cap intensive race, a nos seems tailor made, but the ships that need them the most cant fit them. Yet some other races that shant be named have utility highs galore.

[quote=Fronkfurter McSheebleton]EDIT: The other problem with the Gallente blaster boats is that they dont have a utility high-slot. For an "active tanking" cap intensive race, a nos seems tailor made, but the ships that need them the most cant fit them. Yet some other races that shant be named have utility highs galore.

Very true, but you don't HAVE to use all of the gun slots. : /

The Hyperion in particular would work fine with 7 guns, IMO. The mega does it with the same damage bonus, right?

Very true, but you don't HAVE to use all of the gun slots. : /

The Hyperion in particular would work fine with 7 guns, IMO. The mega does it with the same damage bonus, right?

Get rid of armor rep bonus on Myrmidon. Allow flexibility.

Triple rep myrms are a tough nut to crack, and can stay on the field longer then most other ships because of this bonus. removing it would hurt this greatly.

This, of course, is a horrible idea. Active armor ships might be niche, but they are very good under the right circumstances. Active shield tanks -- god, don't change a thing about those.

The beauty of these ships is that they really do have options. The active shield ships can easily fit a buffer instead. The active armor ships can do that, armor buffer, or shield buffer. And yes, that's a good thing, especially when all of these options have at least some appeal within the metagame.

If anything take the Brutix's away and change it to a bonus that makes it near as effective a skirmish ship as the Hurricane. Leave the Myrms current underused but powerful Niche intact to be improved upon in further balance changes.

Doing this would really hurt people who solo/small gang. And believe it or not, there are lots of people that do.

Give armor tankers a less effective, but still viable armor-tank "speed" option that is all but necessary on blaster boats.

so I'm browsing incursion channel and I read this : proteus LFSF - for the noobs that stands for "looking for shield fleet" - sure enough I checked it out - it's a shield fit gallente t3 - lots of dps and even semi reasonable range due to TE's.

In fact all the amarr ships, which are supposed to be the armor ships are more commonly seen as shield config - legion and guardian being the exceptions - not that legion doesn't rock as a shield boat - it's just the last armor port in the shield storm :).


what works in pve might not necessarily work in pvp especially if you would have to share tank prop and tackle in 4 mids slots but unless it's a ship with 1 mid shield tank is an option

My suggestion is to get rid of these armor rep bonuses (and the shield boost bonus on the Minmatar Cyclone, Claymore, and Mael), and replace it with another bonus, making the Gallente and Minmatar more variable when it comes to what they tank.
Perhaps give them a -5% cap recharge time bonus (and maybe a utlity high).
This higher cap regen aids them in active tank, or it can work to power a utility high, making the ship more versatilele (could power RRs, Cap drain, MWD, etc

Posting in a stealth "Buff minmatar" thread !

Nothing stops you from only fitting 7 guns, and using the 8th high for something else.

the main problem i see with active tanking bonus is that with ships with a 5% bonus to resist are equally effictive at active tanking as the ships with 7.5% to repaired hp and the 5% resist can be used for buffer tanking as well

If anything take the Brutix's away and change it to a bonus that makes it near as effective a skirmish ship as the Hurricane. Leave the Myrms current underused but powerful Niche intact to be improved upon in further balance changes.

Yeah, replace the repping bonus of the Brutix with something else. No need for two BCs of the same race to have the same active repping bonus. Gallente ought to have at least ONE fleet BC available.

Because it dies with class.

Active tanking is just lols to death for other thing than pve, even then you have at least 3 T1 riggs and 4 cap recharge mods.

And then you try to slap rails in to your Brutix and actually try to dps something but...

ok let's do it again

And then you slap blasters in to your Brutix and actually spend your time trying to get in range and dps something else than the gate


amigood?

I would love to see Gallente be able to swap between shield and armour, but unfortantely that'd **** on the entire Caldari hybrid boat line.

Personally I love the Myrm and Hyperion in both their Armour and Shield iterations, but loosing the armour bonus I feel removes a damn fun nich+¬ in pvp. Dual/Triple rep Myrms? So much fun.

If you buffer tank you can easily get 30k-40k ehp on a brutix with shields (50k total if you use DCU2) so long as you have decent shield skills that is. A tank is supposed to last long enough for you to blow your enemy to pieces, not hold off 20 enemies at once. The thorax with a shield tank also doesn't lose speed from armor velocity penalties that some armor mods and rigs inflict. I have virtually no rail or blaster skills but the brutix can still pump 400 dps+drones. With the right skills it can push 500 dps and hold a 40k ehp buffer with shields. The biggest mistake a person can make is to underestimate their opponent.

A shield based Brutix with three mfs and a TE can get 1040ish DPS with void and 790ish DPS with Null - all figures overheated. 50k EHP is spot on. Now compare that to the Ferox. 82.7k EHP. 750ish with Void overheated. 560ish with Null. This is with a DC2 and thre MSF -50% more optimal even w/o a TE compared to the Brutix. If I lose the DC2 and exchange it for a TE2? 66k EHP. 11km optimal plus 11km falloff with null vs. 6km optimal and 9.1km falloff for the Brutix. Hell - void on the ferox would be 5.8km optimal and 4.1km falloff - I can fight the Brutix at it's Null range using Void and still have much more EHP.

The simple fact of the matter is that if you want to go pure gank with Gallente and shield tank - you may as well go Caldari instead. You get a much more versatile DPS curve then Gallente and a shield tank that is superior in every way. You lose up close DPS but the range is significant and you're not a fish out of water should you not be on undock or on the acceleration gate...

The lore, slot layout and bonuses of Amarr ships make it quite clear that Amarr ships should armor tank, and Caldari ships should shield tank... both have ships with 5% resists to their respective tank style.

Minmatar often have their choice in tank, or have some ships that tank Armor, and some that tank Shield (example, Hurricane can do both, Typhoon is good with armor tank....), some are sort of forced into a shield tank style by a shield boost bonus.

Then we have the Gallente... quite a few of their ships have slot layout such that they could be fitted for decent shield tanks (with 4 meds and 3 rig slots, a decent shield tank can be made - which sometimes results in even Amarr ships shield tanking, such as Apocs/navy Apocs in incursions):
Brutix, Myrmidion, Dominix, Hyperion

Yet all these ships except the Dominix have this damn active rep bonus...
The slot layout gives you versatility/choices, but then the active rep bonus means if you want chose a different shield type, you throw away a bonus.
So pretty much all armor tank Gallente ships, and consider a shield tanked Domi to be a abberation.

Of course many people feel that Active rep bonuses aren't that useful (especialyl for anything other than solo work), and are subpar compared to % resist bonuses that increase buffer and effective rep rate.
On top of this, they shoehorn the best candidates for Gallente shield tankers into the armor tank role - although when it comes to incursions, this goes out the window as local rep isnt used, and I often see shield tanked Hyperions and sometimes megas LFSF.
I also often hear of Shield Brutix fits for PvP.

My suggestion is to get rid of these armor rep bonuses (and the shield boost bonus on the Minmatar Cyclone, Claymore, and Mael), and replace it with another bonus, making the Gallente and Minmatar more variable when it comes to what they tank.
Perhaps give them a -5% cap recharge time bonus (and maybe a utlity high).
This higher cap regen aids them in active tank, or it can work to power a utility high, making the ship more versatilele (could power RRs, Cap drain, MWD, etc

a shield domi puts out more dps than an armor domi. js

Apparently it hasn't, with the changes coming in inferno, Gallente are getting more active rep bonuses....

At least the new rep bonus I see proposed (haven't loaded EVE yet) for the incurses makes the bonus a +10% bonus instead of a +7.5% bonus.

But they removed the Incursus range bonus, and its still not too fast... so I don't know how its ever going to get in range with no buffer, no range, and marginal speed - but ship speeds are another topic, why do three races cluster around similar speeds, and then you have the winmatar WTFpwn in the speed department. Gallente should be the secon fastest, and in most cases they are, but their speed advantage over amarr or caldari si a joke compared to the winmatar.

Its also just bad design to not have the shortest range weapon system on the fastest hulls

Why must Gallente Armor tank?