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CCP, should the mods for bs's cost more than the ships themselves?

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Virger	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:23:00 - [1] I'm talking straight t2 mods here. The demand for t2 items, such as the t2 425mm railgun, has greatly outstripped supply for some time now, not to mention the addition of more ships that use them. Which has brought the average price of them above 20 million. CCP, do you honestly believe it is acceptable to have to pay 140 million just to equip a megathron with t2 425mm rails? I do not. I remember when they used to go for 6m a pop and that was considered expensive.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:26:00 - [2] It's only going to get worse with the current way the market's moving, as well. CCP have shown no willingness to make the necessary changes to reverse the trends being seen... and indeed contracts will accelerate them. //Maya
OBI WAN Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:43:00 - [3] Well this is where invention is supposed to help out, although I don't think we will know how much it will affect prices until more people get involved with it. Also, most people may just hold onto their Research Points instead of investing them in Datacores, so when CCP release new Tech 2 BPOs they will have a chance of winning them. On the other hand, it allows people to run research agents and primarily sell the datacores. __________________________________________ Originally by: n sx Death to you and your sugar coated empire.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:46:00 - [4] If invention doesnt change something in the t2 market they need to tweak it to give better results so more people get involved with it. Could be some time until we see any effects though anyway.
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:47:00 - [5] There's been a reseeding of BPOs, which should help somewhat, although you'll have to wait a little while for them to come to market. T2 was never supposed to be cheap. One of these days some sort of worthwhile reverse engineering or invention system will be implemented that people can actually participate in...
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Virger I'm talking straight t2 mods here You missed them reseeding about all T2 BPOs, which should increase the supply, and consequently limit the growth of the price. Anyway, instead of talking about individual item prices, how about describe what kind of game you want? One, where everyone trains for the same ship of the month, and uses exatcly same 'best' setup? Is there something fundamentally wrong in the idea of available ISK directing your choices? That is, if the 'best popular' setup costs too much, for god sakes, don't use/buy them. Some solutions to your problem might be: - Use 2nd best option, like a lot cheaper T2 350mm guns - Avoid training for ships everyone else thinks is best -> you can be sure the limited supply item for that choice will cost a lot - Buy one of the BPOs; you get to use the items at cost.. - Invest on the mods when they are cheap Or, if the item is just so damn good you have to use it, it is certainly worth the price, right? -Lasse loving the unique model of Eve
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 17/12/2006 00:51:34 Invention is expensive as heck...it's not going to be a cost soloution, but as things stand an accessability one. Vasiliyan, a LONG while. Because most of the new T2 BPO's will be sitting in the queue to research ME for a couple of months and then only get a couple of levels... (gee, another issue!) //Maya
OBI WAN Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Vasiliyan There's been a reseeding of BPOs, which should help somewhat, although you'll have to wait a little while for them to come to market. T2 was never supposed to be cheap. One of these days some sort of worthwhile reverse engineering or invention system will be implemented that people can actually participate in... Only the BPOs that were destroyed or lost through other means have been re-seeded, which means that those modules which have ridiculous prices (T2 425mm, 1400mm etc) may not even have had new BPOs introduced. CCP must realise that with more and more people joining the game, and the fact that Tech 2 weapons are quickly becoming a requirement to participate in proper fleet vs fleet PvP, that prices will only increase more and more. And so we come back to invention being the hailed return to price normalisation. We can dream I guess. __________________________________________ Originally by: n sx Death to you and your sugar coated empire.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.12.17 01:33:00 - [9] The Problem is that the amount of people producing is far less then the demand for these Items, it's a Sellers market now! People want to have the T2 items and are willing to pay big for them, since they know the chance of getting more is limited. CCP needs to help this situation because it's never gonna get better, only worse! CCP you need to flood the market with T2 items (not just BPOs). Adding 10,000 425mm T2 rails for example, to the market would put demand lower since people could get them, then prices would fall. Invul. Fields II's are very limited out there, you have to put a buy order out the ass to get them. This needs a change. ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
Susa Ou	Posted - 2006.12.17 01:35:00 - [10] To add to all this is that demand is going up with the increacing subscription base too. Remember a year ago? well, we have grown 50% since then. I remember 10k was 'full' 2 years ago. . . now it never drops below that. Some people are getting fantastically rich here, and some of us are getting shafted. I have always belived that T2 BPOs should be seeded like all other BPOs and let the market decide what is going to happen, or at least let invention produce a BPO so that people can get into the market. As it stands, the T2 system is simply broken, and people are divided as to how to fix it.
Constorator	Posted - 2006.12.17 01:46:00 - [11] I agree Tech II should be seeded, but they should only put a set amount of them in each place they are sold, like, 10 of the racial item in the racial military/schools and only 2 of the racial BPOs in each of the racial military/schools. Racial would be Railguns, Launchers and Kinetic Drones are to Caldari as Blasters and all Drones are to Gallente as Launchers, Projectiles and Explosive Drones are to Minmatar as Lasers and EM drones are to Amarr... Also, still like Shield items in Caldari and Minmatar as Armor items in Gallente and Amarr...
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.17 01:54:00 - [12] Originally by: OBI WAN Originally by: Vasiliyan There's been a reseeding of BPOs, which should help somewhat, although you'll have to wait a little while for them to come to market. T2 was never supposed to be cheap. One of these days some sort of worthwhile reverse engineering or invention system will be implemented that people can actually participate in... Only the BPOs that were destroyed or lost through other means have been re-seeded, which means that those modules which have ridiculous prices (T2 425mm, 1400mm etc) may not even have had new BPOs introduced. CCP must realise that with more and more people joining the game, and the fact that Tech 2 weapons are quickly becoming a requirement to participate in proper fleet vs fleet PvP, that prices will only increase more and more. And so we come back to invention being the hailed return to price normalisation. We can dream I guess. From my looking at research agents it looked a lot more like a general reseed of ALL t2 bpos. ---\|\|---
OBI WAN Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.17 02:30:00 - [13] Originally by: El Yatta Originally by: OBI WAN Originally by: Vasiliyan There's been a reseeding of BPOs, which should help somewhat, although you'll have to wait a little while for them to come to market. T2 was never supposed to be cheap. One of these days some sort of worthwhile reverse engineering or invention system will be implemented that people can actually participate in... Only the BPOs that were destroyed or lost through other means have been re-seeded, which means that those modules which have ridiculous prices (T2 425mm, 1400mm etc) may not even have had new BPOs introduced. CCP must realise that with more and more people joining the game, and the fact that Tech 2 weapons are quickly becoming a requirement to participate in proper fleet vs fleet PvP, that prices will only increase more and more. And so we come back to invention being the hailed return to price normalisation. We can dream I guess. From my looking at research agents it looked a lot more like a general reseed of ALL t2 bpos. Really? Damn. As time goes on I feel more and more stupid for not investing in at least a single R&D agent. Oh well! __________________________________________ Originally by: n sx Death to you and your sugar coated empire.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.17 02:32:00 - [14] Yes, they've added a wave for pretty much everything. (I think they've missed some of the really low-return ones) //Maya
OBI WAN Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.17 02:37:00 - [15] So are they only planning on doing this once, or are there any ideas to release new waves of T2 BPOs every x months? Also, this thread should really be moved to market discussion or some other appropriate forum. __________________________________________ Originally by: n sx Death to you and your sugar coated empire.
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.17 03:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Majin82 CCP you need to flood the market with T2 items (not just BPOs). Adding 10,000 425mm T2 rails for example, to the market would put demand lower since people could get them, then prices would fall. CCP needs to leave the player driven market the hell alone, since it's a signifigant part of the game for a lot of players. You've not provided a reason for CCP giving you cheap stuff, you're just demanding it ...
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.17 03:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Virger I'm talking straight t2 mods here. The demand for t2 items, such as the t2 425mm railgun, has greatly outstripped supply for some time now, not to mention the addition of more ships that use them. Which has brought the average price of them above 20 million. CCP, do you honestly believe it is acceptable to have to pay 140 million just to equip a megathron with t2 425mm rails? I do not. I remember when they used to go for 6m a pop and that was considered expensive. You're complaining that T2 fittings cost more than a T1 ship? Do you happen to see the flaw in your logic? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.17 03:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Majin82 The Problem is that the amount of people producing is far less then the demand for these Items, it's a Sellers market now! People want to have the T2 items and are willing to pay big for them, since they know the chance of getting more is limited. CCP needs to help this situation because it's never gonna get better, only worse! CCP you need to flood the market with T2 items (not just BPOs). Adding 10,000 425mm T2 rails for example, to the market would put demand lower since people could get them, then prices would fall. Invul. Fields II's are very limited out there, you have to put a buy order out the ass to get them. This needs a change. If CCP puts 10,000 425mm IIs on the market, a handful of rich players are going to buy every last one of them and then resell at current prices. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Constorator	Posted - 2006.12.17 03:10:00 - [19] Edited by: Constorator on 17/12/2006 03:10:29 ---
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.17 03:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Vasiliyan T2 was never supposed to be cheap. I'm sick and tired of hearing that excuse. Oveur himself said, "perhaps it's time T2 became the norm", when talking about invention in a blog or post. I'm sorry, but "the norm" is not 140mil for 7 turrets Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
OBI WAN Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.17 03:15:00 - [21] CCP has given the playerbase the tools to create all T2 modules that exist in game so far with invention. Unfortunately the implementation of this solution doesn't appear to have been very well done, and as such will need some tweaking. Give it time people, once more players get involved with invention CCP hopefully should make it more worthwhile. __________________________________________ Originally by: n sx Death to you and your sugar coated empire.
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.17 04:08:00 - [22] Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 17/12/2006 04:08:59 Originally by: Vasiliyan T2 was never supposed to be cheap. IF YOU OWN A TECH 2 BPO Do you think it's fair that you can provide a whole alliance with the mentioned 425mm II at around 1m or whatever is the prodution cost while everyone else has to pay 20m+. WITHOUT having any work to aquire the bpo. If you had to fight, mine, explore, etc for it, yeah i would be fair, not this way. The lotery was a bad idea, but even the lotery wasn't fair, it was borked, what are the odds of a player getting 5+ bpos? Do the math. I'm sick and tired of the tech 2 lobby, even worst then the inty one, and CCP doesn't even comment. Every patch they throw sand at our eyes about a r&d fix, been waiting for 2 years now.
OBI WAN Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.17 04:14:00 - [23] Sadly it's a case of "it's too late now". If CCP decide the lottery was a bad idea then they can't just remove all existing BPOs as people would complain. Since they can't bring the T2 to the people, they need to bring the people to T2, and invention was their idea. I just wish it was a better one! I honestly think the ideal solution would be to allow your average Joe access to T2 BPOs through means of a long and testing research project. Say to obtain this BPO you needed to collect items from 0.0, rare exploration sites and other such things that would take at least 2 months to fully obtain. This way, people can embark on a long and arduous journey to obtain a T2 BPO and feel decently rewarded at the end of it all, and it would allow for the T2 market to become... reasonable. Sure, existing T2 BPO owners would whine, but what did you do to really EARN your BPO? __________________________________________ Originally by: n sx Death to you and your sugar coated empire.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.17 04:28:00 - [24] One of the problems is tech II items that everybody wants. Take the 425mm rails for instance. two races use them, but there aren't 2x the 425mm tech II bpo's out there compared to tach's. Cap charger II's are even worse. same with ean II's, 3 races use those. I would love to know why tech II invulns are so high though, very few people shield tank in pvp, and mission running doesn't have near the turnover that pvp does.
Maeltstome	Posted - 2006.12.17 04:50:00 - [25] Stop moaning at CCP. They provide you with a huge universe to do with as you see fit (albeit within vertain non-cheating or abusive parameters). Sadly even in our universe, monopolising of the market and overcharging happens, so in eve it has to be possible too. If you dont like the price of T2 items, dont buy them - i see this post every other week with a new name and the same content.
OBI WAN Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.17 05:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Maeltstome Stop moaning at CCP. They provide you with a huge universe to do with as you see fit (albeit within vertain non-cheating or abusive parameters). Sadly even in our universe, monopolising of the market and overcharging happens, so in eve it has to be possible too. If you dont like the price of T2 items, dont buy them - i see this post every other week with a new name and the same content. It's not a case of "don't like, don't buy", Tech 2 long range weaponry is REQUIRED for fleet vs fleet PvP. __________________________________________ Originally by: n sx Death to you and your sugar coated empire.
Lenaria Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2006.12.17 08:12:00 - [27] Originally by: Maeltstome Stop moaning at CCP. They provide you with a huge universe to do with as you see fit (albeit within vertain non-cheating or abusive parameters). Sadly even in our universe, monopolising of the market and overcharging happens, so in eve it has to be possible too. If you dont like the price of T2 items, dont buy them - i see this post every other week with a new name and the same content. Sadly, T2 monopoly is ARTIFICAL restriction to free market. As such, it should be changed. At least CCP started to move in the right direction with the Kali.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Vasiliyan There's been a reseeding of BPOs, which should help somewhat, although you'll have to wait a little while for them to come to market. T2 was never supposed to be cheap. You know, I don't see anyone asking for cheap. What I see is people asking that it cost less than 50 times the manufacturing prices.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Vasiliyan Originally by: Majin82 CCP you need to flood the market with T2 items (not just BPOs). Adding 10,000 425mm T2 rails for example, to the market would put demand lower since people could get them, then prices would fall. CCP needs to leave the player driven market the hell alone, since it's a signifigant part of the game for a lot of players. You've not provided a reason for CCP giving you cheap stuff, you're just demanding it ... Oh, go back to your bridge, troll.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 17/12/2006 09:41:32 Originally by: Laboratus They are not that cheap to manufacture either. And the manufacturing infrastructure that goes into making one part is kinda depressing. If you don't belive me just look at the bpos and go through the manufacturing process step by step all the way from the T2 component parts, through the advanced materials, down to the moon minerals and think about how many poses, ice miners haulers etc are present and involved in the manufacturing chain. They are expensinve for a reason. It drives a whole industry. And there isn't really as much air in those prices as there are in real world ones Don't try to bull****. Everyone knows they don't cost anywhere near 20 million isk to make. The materials involved aren't exactly top-secret. Nice try, tho. Ok maybe not. It was a pretty tired excuse. Hey, I tell you what... Feel free to give me a 425mm rail II BPO since it's just so much trouble to manufacture and you feel so overworked.

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