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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Omniwar on 24/11/2003 13:31:47 What purpose does the scanner serve for you?
At what places do you use the scanner?
Please read more in this thread so you know why I am asking, and please answer the other questions that are posted elsewere.
Spawn of the Devil
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EvilEric
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:23:00 -
[2]
oooo third thread on the subject... you is GONNA get locked... and a snotty mail from the mods too!
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:29:00 -
[3]
Quote: oooo third thread on the subject... you is GONNA get locked... and a snotty mail from the mods too!
Why should this thread be locked?
Two questions asked to the peaple of EVE so I can finish my book about the uses of the scanner that I plan to sell the Concord Navy. Spawn of the Devil
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Sheriff Jones
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:41:00 -
[4]
Serious answer then.
Finding containers left by pirs, finding pirs when their somewhere behind me, finding right kind of roids(if i mined), finding anything i am too moopy to find on the screen.
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The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:43:00 -
[5]
If you cant use it for that, then half of eve's PvP'ers need banning. How else can you track Josh Calvert to his safespot?
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Zorael
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Zorael on 24/11/2003 10:52:58 This thread is perfectly legal in regard to the forum rules...
However the Higher Authorities That Govern Us are probably hovering it like vultures, hoping for someone to misstep
And to answer your question :
I use the scanner to remotely detect the presence and type of ships at points of interest, be it belts, gates or stations.
From any place I can reach using the warp drive built into my ship, and from a distance comprised between 0 and 2.1 billion kilometers.
Z
- - - Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:47:00 -
[7]
"What purpose does the scanner serve for you?"
To scan my surroundings, duh. The scanner was clearly designed for this purpose, that including the information about other players' ships, pirate drones, mines and whatnot within up to 20 A.U. around you... otherwise it wouldn't retrieve and show this information to the scanner operator in the first place, non?
"At what places do you use the scanner?"
Wherever i happen to be in space, and find using it necessary.
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Don't Panic
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:49:00 -
[8]
please specify 'scanner'.
do you talk about the 'objects-in-space'-scanner or about the scanner modules you fit to your ship (i.e. cargo, survey, shipscanner)?
as for the first I use it for warp or docking purposes, and to pin down rare ore roids, POIs and other players from every place in space that I see fit to use range and directional scans in an optimal way.
as for the scanner medslot modules I choose a place that is within the specified module range of the object I want to scan and with the purpose of gathering info about amount of ore, cargo of a ship or ship setup.
I hope I could help you
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:13:00 -
[9]
Well scanner can be used for everything when it comes to space and where things are. See 3 ppl in local and you wounder what ships they fly ? use your scanner. Wounder what roid belt with out npc rats ? use your scanner. wounder what roids are in a belt ? use your scanner. Wounder how far planet VIII Moon 3 is from station X ? use your scanner.
-- Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears movies
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:19:00 -
[10]
I use non-directional scan to see what types of ships there are in space in the system I am in.
If I'm fighting them, I then use directional scan to see if they are close to any landmark (gate, planet, station, moon, belt) that can be warped to.
I often scan gates to see if they are being camped.
Sometimes, I even use the scanner to find asteroids that lie outside the belts. The so-called "hidden" roids. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:21:00 -
[11]
I use the scanner to find my frozen carcass after getting podded. -------------------------------------------- Dead
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2600
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: 2600 on 24/11/2003 11:23:46 Instaid of changing their system/code to create the game they desire, ccp prefers to make general tools and call it an exploit if u use them/it in a way they wish they had prevented coding wise. The scanner has many possible uses and one of the most common is to search for hidden pks. If they dont want ppl to be able to do so then why did they include the angle option. And the mysterious, hidden and apparently huge list of "dont do it" actions should be posted in an obvious spot if ccp is going to keep threatening players. God knows i'm playing other games more and eve less as it is, i dont need arrogent gms talking down to players around me. The attitude is like your mother in days of yore, saying "because i said so" and i for one am put off by it. /rant
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Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:34:00 -
[13]
Actually the scanner goes up to something like 13/14au
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Omniwar on 24/11/2003 11:42:32 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=44577
we all know this thread will be locked in few minutes now, but answeres are needed in this matter. Spawn of the Devil
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:49:00 -
[15]
Ummm.... just one thing... You CAN attack someone while you`re in another grid and IMO it is certainly an exploit. But scanning from a different grid and then moving to the one you found ships in and then attacking them is perfectly acceptable in my books.
Don`t ask me ofcourse how you can attack from a different grid... if some1 does it he should get banned no questions asked. You didn`t do that omniwar, did you?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:49:00 -
[16]
"Actually the scanner goes up to something like 13/14au"
... I was never good with math =) Still, that's much more than the grid size so if we are not supposed to learn about some objects outside of the grid... this info simply shouldn't be provided? o.o;
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nonsequitur
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:53:00 -
[17]
Edited by: nonsequitur on 24/11/2003 12:06:12
Quote: Actually the scanner goes up to something like 13/14au
2147483648 = Max value for signed 32 bit integer 149597870 KM in an AU
2147483648 Km / 149597870 km = 14.355041605873131749803656963832 AU
or 14.355 Au aprox.
*edit - forgot to specify what bit size integer |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:53:00 -
[18]
Quote: Ummm.... just one thing... You CAN attack someone while you`re in another grid and IMO it is certainly an exploit. But scanning from a different grid and then moving to the one you found ships in and then attacking them is perfectly acceptable in my books.
Don`t ask me ofcourse how you can attack from a different grid... if some1 does it he should get banned no questions asked. You didn`t do that omniwar, did you?
I dont cheat so please dont imply I do.
Explane to me how you can attack a pilot in another grid, I have chased peaple that use MWD long ways and when they leave the grid I loose the lock, thus it is not possible to attack ships in a diffirent grid.
If I had used an exploit to my advantage I wouldnt be posting would I ? As I would have been banned. Spawn of the Devil
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Zodiac Laserstorm
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:56:00 -
[19]
Quote: oooo third thread on the subject... you is GONNA get locked... and a snotty mail from the mods too!
Not sure about snotty, but I have a feeling someone is BEGGING for atention, even if it's a slapping.
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Zodiac Laserstorm
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:58:00 -
[20]
Quote: Edited by: Omniwar on 24/11/2003 11:42:32 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=44577
we all know this thread will be locked in few minutes now, but answeres are needed in this matter.
Oops, didn`t see that one.
Seriously, Omni. If a thread is locked, see it as a WARNING. Like, if a dog growls as you try to take the bone away, don't try it again. ...and again... and again...
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2600
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Posted - 2003.11.24 12:02:00 -
[21]
i wonder why they used a signed int when there is no need for a negative value anyways?
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 12:02:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote: Edited by: Omniwar on 24/11/2003 11:42:32
we all know this thread will be locked in few minutes now, but answeres are needed in this matter.
Oops, didn`t see that one.
Seriously, Omni. If a thread is locked, see it as a WARNING. Like, if a dog growls as you try to take the bone away, don't try it again. ...and again... and again...
Until CCP makes a public announcment that certain actions in EVE are bannable offence I truly cant see why they have the right to limit my playability.
As of now all they do is cover up for what seems to be mistake by them, and they cover up by locking down threads where we as players are discussing the game and its possibilities. Spawn of the Devil
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Zorael
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Posted - 2003.11.24 12:11:00 -
[23]
Past this point, I think we have 2 options :
1- Grow this thread to a dozen pages asking for an official response (Which seems unlikely considering it's already smelling of lockage).
2- Ask one or more GMs to clarify.
Z
- - - Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 12:15:00 -
[24]
I want an official statement from CCP about this matter, but I have had 2 threads locked when asking.
If something is an exploit then CCP should make a public post and not talk to each pilot in personal conversation and threaten him with a ban. Spawn of the Devil
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.11.24 12:19:00 -
[25]
Quote: I want an official statement from CCP about this matter, but I have had 2 threads locked when asking.
You won't get it here. You should know that.
If you get a ruling that you think is unfair, you should try to (non-publicly) contact either another GM or a CCP member. All you get from the forums is public hysteria and flaming. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.24 12:26:00 -
[26]
"You won't get it here. You should know that.
If you get a ruling that you think is unfair, you should try to (non-publicly) contact either another GM or a CCP member."
... Well, am at the moment personally concerned as i've been apparently exploiting the game for months, simply because no one ever bothered to officially state what's the policy of using the space scanner. I suspect there's number of people in similar position.
Having a GM post the official response here might save the game staff a ****load of work they'll have answering all individual petitions regarding the matter. *shrugs*
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 12:35:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote: I want an official statement from CCP about this matter, but I have had 2 threads locked when asking.
You won't get it here. You should know that.
If you get a ruling that you think is unfair, you should try to (non-publicly) contact either another GM or a CCP member. All you get from the forums is public hysteria and flaming.
My point is that say something is an exploit but tell me that in private conversation but when I want to warn everyone about this exploit they lock the threads.
Is it not good for peaple to know what they can and cant do, instead of getting banned all of the sudden ?
So either certain acts in EVE are forbidden or they are allowed, there is no in between and those rules should be made public ASAP. Spawn of the Devil
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Kovak
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:06:00 -
[28]
With grids as far as I know its impossible to target someone in another grid using the scanner, the distance shows up as (unknown) and will refuse to lock. On the other hand I have been in a different grid once or twice and physically seen other ships come into a grid with a gate e.t.c I could see them but I don't think they could see me (they didn't start firing on me as I expected anyway). Either way that has sod all to do with the scanner. I personally think the scanner helps to make the game more tactical and interesting.
I personally use it for locking down ship locations with range/directional and exploring for hidden stuff. And since you can't lock anyone in another grid with it, I'd sure as hell like to know how its an exploit.
I'm assuming CCP consider grids to be an exploit, I do not, I think they are fairly good features of the game.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:09:00 -
[29]
Quote:
I dont cheat so please dont imply I do.
Explane to me how you can attack a pilot in another grid, I have chased peaple that use MWD long ways and when they leave the grid I loose the lock, thus it is not possible to attack ships in a diffirent grid.
If I had used an exploit to my advantage I wouldnt be posting would I ? As I would have been banned.
No my friend I was merely joking about that, sorry no offence intended. The thing is you DON`T lose the lock if you change grid. The ship you`ve locked dissappears from the screen and from the top display but you STILL have it locked and your guns still fire. You can even activate more modules and guns like that. But if you lock something else after that and you select the new ship you can`t revert to the old one in the other grid because it`s not displayed on the top of the screen.-although your guns can still be firing on the old That IS an exploit because you can lock someone fast, change grid and start firing. If he didn`t lock you fast enough or had maxed out his available targets he has no chance of fighting back. Try that with npcs if you like, it works. stubled upon it myself by accident.
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:23:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Quote:
I dont cheat so please dont imply I do.
Explane to me how you can attack a pilot in another grid, I have chased peaple that use MWD long ways and when they leave the grid I loose the lock, thus it is not possible to attack ships in a diffirent grid.
If I had used an exploit to my advantage I wouldnt be posting would I ? As I would have been banned.
No my friend I was merely joking about that, sorry no offence intended. The thing is you DON`T lose the lock if you change grid. The ship you`ve locked dissappears from the screen and from the top display but you STILL have it locked and your guns still fire. You can even activate more modules and guns like that. But if you lock something else after that and you select the new ship you can`t revert to the old one in the other grid because it`s not displayed on the top of the screen.-although your guns can still be firing on the old That IS an exploit because you can lock someone fast, change grid and start firing. If he didn`t lock you fast enough or had maxed out his available targets he has no chance of fighting back. Try that with npcs if you like, it works. stubled upon it myself by accident.
I know for a fact that if a ship leaves the grid then I loose the lock, I was hunting down Techell corp members in Algogille, found one in a thorax and after I shot at him he used MWD until he was out of the grid, then I lost the lock and few seconds later I entered the same grid as he and then I could lock him again.
If you have can still shot at peaple or NPC without being in the same grid then send in a bug petition ASAP.
It was possible to lock and shoot peaple in another grid long time ago but CCP changed it so that it should not be possible now.
But is it illegal if I am in a different grid and use my scanner to see how many are near he place I want to warp to ? Spawn of the Devil
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:25:00 -
[31]
I use the scanner to chase people around the systems (unless they use a mid-nowhere bookmark). .
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:28:00 -
[32]
It would be *very* immersive and adding to the feeling of realism if the scanner would only show things in an artificial bubble called your grid. NOT.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:32:00 -
[33]
Edited by: ElCoCo on 24/11/2003 13:35:54
Quote:
It was possible to lock and shoot peaple in another grid long time ago but CCP changed it so that it should not be possible now.
But is it illegal if I am in a different grid and use my scanner to see how many are near he place I want to warp to ?
I had that grid thingy happen to me about 2-3 weeks ago so if they didn`t change it after the last mini-optional-patch it`s still there.
On the subject I totaly agree with you. It works for pirates and non-pirates and is a very helpful feature for both.
edit to add: you "seem" to lose the lock but in fact you don`t, that`s what I meant that happens if you/he change grid.
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Paddyman
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:36:00 -
[34]
This is just bull****, Omni is the same thing weve had with GM's b4, i personally dont think half of them even play the game as some of the things they come out with amaze me.
Of course u can use ur scanner to check what gates/planets etc have people at them and what type of ships they are.
I do it all the time, if theres an enemy in a system, ill warp to the sun and use distance and directional scanning to locate the moon he's hiding at.
And yes of course the sun is in a differnet grid than the moon i scanned him at. How in gods name can this be an exploit. I reckon u just a carebear GM whos opinion is that of a carebear and therefore anything that helps u kill them is an exploit.
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sutty
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Posted - 2003.11.24 13:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: sutty on 24/11/2003 13:39:32 I use it to find people in space who think there safe. then track them down using the directional scanner, if there close enough a mwd if not mini warps dropping bookmarks till we get you.
oh and also the GM's dont know anything about there own game. ignore them, if it was illegal to use the scanner when the object you are scanning for is not on the same grid, then take the scanner out the game as it is useless. CCP tell your staff to engage there brains.
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Karon Wodens
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Posted - 2003.11.24 14:19:00 -
[36]
What I use them for?
The identification of various asteroid strains. That's what.
Caldari Prime: Think of that moment, remember what they did...
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2003.11.24 14:21:00 -
[37]
Quote: With grids as far as I know its impossible to target someone in another grid using the scanner,
Your wrong. You can stay right outside the grid border. Activate your wepond and target a ship in your scanner list.
-- Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears movies
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Krac
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:27:00 -
[38]
i use it to see who is flying what
and i will keep doing it until some one tell me not too |
sutty
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:27:00 -
[39]
wrong you cant.
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:30:00 -
[40]
Quote: wrong you cant.
.. if you say so sir ..
-- Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears movies
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:44:00 -
[41]
Quote: What purpose does the scanner serve for you?
In one word: scouting.
That pretty much answers your other question aswell I think. You use it a places where you need to 'see' further than your camera drone allows.
You¦ll probably see the scanner as one of the most important tools in the game after the next patch. The scanner got some really heavy luvin on Chaos lately
Mai's Idealog |
sutty
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:48:00 -
[42]
if both parties cant see each other there is no way to lock. you can no longer lock out the scanner ok :?
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slothe
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Posted - 2003.11.24 16:13:00 -
[43]
i use scanners to try and find and player pirates who hide in a system im in. if you triangulate or scan a couple of times you can find them.with effort.
ps this thread would be short if people answered the question and didnt go off at tangents. why do people do this?
it seems like other people are craving attention NOT the author
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public" http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 16:19:00 -
[44]
Quote: i use scanners to try and find and player pirates who hide in a system im in. if you triangulate or scan a couple of times you can find them.with effort.
ps this thread would be short if people answered the question and didnt go off at tangents. why do people do this?
it seems like other people are craving attention NOT the author
I actually know how to use the scanner, and I did not make this thread to get attention.
I belief I was done wrong upon by the GM¦s but cant do anything about except use these here forums.
Do you think that if I scan you while I am in another grid, no matter where I am, is that an exploit or not in your personal opinion.
Spawn of the Devil
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Ezra Vouland
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Posted - 2003.11.24 16:33:00 -
[45]
Im to lazy to read everyone elses posts...
Last week some of the llaince guys and I spent an hour or so chasing some fool in a thorax with a MWD around 2 systems relying on scanners. This guy was wapring non stop to every damn moon, planet anything. After an hour we discoverd his retarted pattern by using the scanner at maximum range then pinpointing him down with directional scanner.
I would have to say this is a very good tool to use for podding the tards who like to fire on allies.
They call me trash... TrashGUY |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 18:44:00 -
[46]
Quote: If you cant use it for that, then half of eve's PvP'ers need banning. How else can you track Josh Calvert to his safespot?
What the **** are you on about, n00b?
Get yourself involved in PvP instead of talking about it, dumb-ass.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 18:46:00 -
[47]
I use the scanner to identify enemy ships and, when fighting CA, to make sure certain members *cough* Milk *cough* aren't sneaking up on us with grids near our location.
Grids have absolutely no effect on your ability to scan someone as long as they are within the 15au range of a scanner.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
pooti
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Posted - 2003.11.24 20:38:00 -
[48]
Quote: Edited by: sutty on 24/11/2003 13:39:32 I use it to find people in space who think there safe. then track them down using the directional scanner, if there close enough a mwd if not mini warps dropping bookmarks till we get you.
oh and also the GM's dont know anything about there own game. ignore them, if it was illegal to use the scanner when the object you are scanning for is not on the same grid, then take the scanner out the game as it is useless. CCP tell your staff to engage there brains.
Yeah, one of my favorite things to do in eve.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 20:44:00 -
[49]
Quote: oh and also the GM's dont know anything about there own game. ignore them, if it was illegal to use the scanner when the object you are scanning for is not on the same grid, then take the scanner out the game as it is useless. CCP tell your staff to engage there brains.
I believe the case in question was due to Player A being in the grid adjacent to the object/area he was scanning.
It's not a case of him being at Planet 3 Moon 1 and scanning Stargate ABC from 9.81au's away.
He was more likely to have been 100km's away in a grid.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Ajnos Runecasting
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Posted - 2003.11.24 20:46:00 -
[50]
I use the scanner to find rare roids in a system without jumping to every roid field.
I also use the scanner to see what Friendly Biomass People are sitting at what gate in EC-P8R and deciding if I want to try and run through it or log for the night
-(o)-
Red-I
Anjos...
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 22:07:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Quote: oh and also the GM's dont know anything about there own game. ignore them, if it was illegal to use the scanner when the object you are scanning for is not on the same grid, then take the scanner out the game as it is useless. CCP tell your staff to engage there brains.
I believe the case in question was due to Player A being in the grid adjacent to the object/area he was scanning.
It's not a case of him being at Planet 3 Moon 1 and scanning Stargate ABC from 9.81au's away.
He was more likely to have been 100km's away in a grid.
Does it matter where one is when using the scanner, since it is not possible to to use any grid exploits.
The point of having bookmarks in the next grid to stations and gates to be able to scan those places is to not having to scan all the other places that orbit the planet/moon.
Where excacly is the harm in being in the next grid to another player to scan him and his surroundings out?
I still want CCP to make it publicly known if that indeed is an exploit, if they wont then they pretty much admit that this is allowed.
It is not possible to say something is an exploit but not make it public knowlage, that means every other pirate hunter in FD-MLJ will be reported by me, since I know for a fact most of them use the grids next to the gates and JIP to scan.
So CCP get your act togather and give an answer, and do that as soon as possible. Spawn of the Devil
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 22:08:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: oh and also the GM's dont know anything about there own game. ignore them, if it was illegal to use the scanner when the object you are scanning for is not on the same grid, then take the scanner out the game as it is useless. CCP tell your staff to engage there brains.
I believe the case in question was due to Player A being in the grid adjacent to the object/area he was scanning.
It's not a case of him being at Planet 3 Moon 1 and scanning Stargate ABC from 9.81au's away.
He was more likely to have been 100km's away in a grid.
Does it matter where one is when using the scanner, since it is not possible to to use any grid exploits.
The point of having bookmarks in the next grid to stations and gates to be able to scan those places is to not having to scan all the other places that orbit the planet/moon.
Where excacly is the harm in being in the next grid to another player to scan him and his surroundings out?
I still want CCP to make it publicly known if that indeed is an exploit, if they wont then they pretty much admit that this is allowed.
It is not possible to say something is an exploit but not make it public knowlage, that means every other pirate hunter in FD-MLJ will be reported by me, since I know for a fact most of them use the grids next to the gates and JIP to scan.
So CCP get your act togather and give an answer, and do that as soon as possible.
Coming out of a grid does not induce a 10-second period of invulnerability.
That's why it is an exploit.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 22:18:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Omniwar on 24/11/2003 22:20:01
Quote: Coming out of a grid does not induce a 10-second period of invulnerability.
That's why it is an exploit.
I have not used it as such as all who have fought me see I warp in but I do not sneak in from another grid.
Landing 120-200km from an opponent is not ideal in a fight as he can warp out right away.
Do you really think it is an exploit to have a bookmark, warp to that bookmark and scan, gather info, warp back out to your friends and then gang warp in to the enemies after making decicions on who to kill first ?
*edit* if it is an exploit why did I have to learn about that in a private convercation with a game master, why has it not been made public knowlage ? Spawn of the Devil
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 22:41:00 -
[54]
Quote: Edited by: Omniwar on 24/11/2003 22:20:01
Quote: Coming out of a grid does not induce a 10-second period of invulnerability.
That's why it is an exploit.
I have not used it as such as all who have fought me see I warp in but I do not sneak in from another grid.
Landing 120-200km from an opponent is not ideal in a fight as he can warp out right away.
Do you really think it is an exploit to have a bookmark, warp to that bookmark and scan, gather info, warp back out to your friends and then gang warp in to the enemies after making decicions on who to kill first ?
*edit* if it is an exploit why did I have to learn about that in a private convercation with a game master, why has it not been made public knowlage ?
You can scan from 15au.
Why do you need to enter a grid 100km away from a point to scan someone?
More importantly, how come you're so adept at finding these grids and using them regularly enough that you were reported?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
pooti
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Posted - 2003.11.24 23:33:00 -
[55]
Edited by: pooti on 24/11/2003 23:37:03
Quote:
Quote: Edited by: Omniwar on 24/11/2003 22:20:01
Quote: Coming out of a grid does not induce a 10-second period of invulnerability.
That's why it is an exploit.
I have not used it as such as all who have fought me see I warp in but I do not sneak in from another grid.
Landing 120-200km from an opponent is not ideal in a fight as he can warp out right away.
Do you really think it is an exploit to have a bookmark, warp to that bookmark and scan, gather info, warp back out to your friends and then gang warp in to the enemies after making decicions on who to kill first ?
*edit* if it is an exploit why did I have to learn about that in a private convercation with a game master, why has it not been made public knowlage ?
You can scan from 15au.
Why do you need to enter a grid 100km away from a point to scan someone?
More importantly, how come you're so adept at finding these grids and using them regularly enough that you were reported?
Joshua, next time you're in Curse (heh) go to LJ and try to do a long range scan. With 30+ asteroid belts.
Not gonna happen, or if it does, it's going to take over a half hour.
Even in systems with one or two belts doing a scan takes a few minutes. Unless you have a massive stalemate going on, this doesn't really do any good. As it is close-range scanning is the only way to really scan in a system without having your scanner lag to death (and note that while you're waiting for your scanner to finish nothing else will load - i tried warping from belt to belt in a system the other day while my scanner was scanning and the asteroids weren't showing up when i warped in! As soon as I closed my scanner they all popped up [as well as some npcs], also portraits do not load).
Come on, you know that.
Also, are safespots exploits then since they encourage moving in from other grids? I've had multiple kills/fights where I've scanned someone and then used the techniques sutty mentioned to find a ship; the only possible way to get there is by travelling through a grid (unless you plop down a ******* amazing bookmark). (Also, as omniwar said, you more often than not come out 100km+ from the ships you're going after).
Guess I should note that I've never travelled through a grid to get to a target when warping to an object was possible (for the above reason).
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 23:43:00 -
[56]
There's a difference between warping through a grid to somewhere like a planet or gate and warping INTO a grid in order to negate the invul timer.
As for coming out 100km from a gate, ever heard of long-range guns?
Might not get battleships but with no invul timer you're quite likely to lock and destroy indies and possibly cruisers.
I've seen it in 36N at the gate leading to U-QVWD - 20 CA battleships hiding in the grid 30km behind that gate. Don't tell me they're all so inept at scanning it takes all 20 of them to scan the gate with nobody around it?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 23:45:00 -
[57]
Quote: Joshua, next time you're in Curse (heh) go to LJ and try to do a long range scan. With 30+ asteroid belts.
Why should I bother going to Curse?
You fools are quite willing to come to us and thats how we like it.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
pooti
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Posted - 2003.11.24 23:56:00 -
[58]
Edited by: pooti on 25/11/2003 00:00:42 Edited by: pooti on 24/11/2003 23:58:14 Joshua, can't you ever put that stuff aside and just discuss gameplay mechanics?
Personally, I've never scanned from a spot in a different grid. I have no grid bookmarks. I usually just go to the closet moon/planet. But I see no problem with those who do have bookmarks.
And again, we've both stated that we use warp to (as opposed to flying through) to get to the areas we're scanning that. I know you can't believe that anyone outside of Stain would ever play fairly, but for the sake of keeping the discussion from turning into a flamewar or anothing boring ca did this/sa did that thread can you at least try?
edit:
And isn't the invul timer to protect the ship warping in rather than the one already there anyway? So it shouldn't even matter.
Also, I guess someone could stack a bunch of sensor boosters and long range turrets and try to sneak in and pop indies, but the other pilot would have to be pretty dumb to sit long enough to get locked and popped. And I haven't heard of this happening so I don't see the need to discuss it.
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.11.25 01:49:00 -
[59]
It doesn't take long to scan if you use a "tigh beam", i.e. 15¦ scan. You can avoid taking in most of the asteroids and such unless you are very unlucky.
Heck, you can do it with the 30¦ scan most of the time as well.
I'm starting to think we're getting a very one-sided version of what happened there... ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Viper Bronco
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Posted - 2003.11.25 01:51:00 -
[60]
not gonna read 56 replys. simply I use scanner to see what is in any given system I might find myself in. then I use other functions of scanner to locate anything I see that might be worth exploring. is slow time consuming process. but can be very rewarding.
like way out deep in 0.0 space in my shuttle and find a nice fat cruiser parked with nobody home.... hehehe
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Ctrl
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Posted - 2003.11.25 02:51:00 -
[61]
This is utter bullsh1t, if you can't use it to scan for players in another grid then CCP should just nerf it so it doesn't pick up other players ships at all. Calling it an exploit is totally unrealistic. Locking across grids was an exploit (not possible now), using a scanner to detect ships in another grid should be perfectly legal.
And yeah I doubt the GM's ever play this game. ______________________ I liek eating crayons
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.25 04:33:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Omniwar on 25/11/2003 04:35:54 Edited by: Omniwar on 25/11/2003 04:33:35
Quote: There's a difference between warping through a grid to somewhere like a planet or gate and warping INTO a grid in order to negate the invul timer.
As for coming out 100km from a gate, ever heard of long-range guns?
Might not get battleships but with no invul timer you're quite likely to lock and destroy indies and possibly cruisers.
I've seen it in 36N at the gate leading to U-QVWD - 20 CA battleships hiding in the grid 30km behind that gate. Don't tell me they're all so inept at scanning it takes all 20 of them to scan the gate with nobody around it?
You didnt read my reply did you?
If you did then you would know that in those situations it is needed to scan for peaple at certain places to know how many and what kind of ships they have, it is better to know the strengh of the enemy before actually engaging him.
I dont stay in one grid and sneak to the next one to kill peaple.
You say you know about others staying in one grid to sneak in the next grid for advantage, report it.
Quote: It doesn't take long to scan if you use a "tigh beam", i.e. 15¦ scan. You can avoid taking in most of the asteroids and such unless you are very unlucky.
Heck, you can do it with the 30¦ scan most of the time as well.
I'm starting to think we're getting a very one-sided version of what happened there...
Do you spend all your time in EVE fighting, and usually in the same few systems, if you dont then you have no idea whatsoever about what you are replying to.
When you have forces attacking you everyday that have at least two times the ships your gang has then you get bored scanning from planets and/or moons since you have thousands of asteroids on you scanner as well, that time you cant afford to loose in a war were you are outnumbered.
One sided story? If I post my conversation with The GM this thread will be locked as my 2 or 3 previous posts have been today.
FACT : The pilots in 4C thought I was using a grid exploit and thus 5 of them reported me, the time they thought I was exploiting I never ever moved my ship, not one meter, never shot a shot.
FACT : GM said I would be banned if I would scan from another grid to see the strengh of the enemy force.
FACT : I asked that if someone else would use that tactic on me and my friends and kill us would we then get our ships back, he said NO.
Results are that it is an exploit to scan another grid and you will be banned, however the peaple you kill will not get thier ships back.
As far as I know everyone gets thier ships and items back if indeed exploit was used, not in this case, why ? Perhaps there is no exploit.
It was only a GM acting on behalf of 5 petitions and disregarding all rules to show his power.
As you may or may not have noticed then they have not replied to any of my questions on the forums and my posts and posts from other peaple have been locked because we wanted answers.
I think that since they wont reply puplicly they know that the GM did more that he was allowed to do.
Thus scanning from another grid is indeed not an exploit if CCP is NOT WILLING to announce so puplicly.
Who knows, noone will know until CCP speaks up so everyone knows, not just one single pilot that is threatend in a private conversation. Spawn of the Devil
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2003.11.25 05:44:00 -
[63]
The key point to this discussion (and the many others we've all had about what is an exploit and what is not an exploit) is that CCP repeatedly fail to make public knowledge what they and their representatives, the GMs, consider an exploit and why.
All this bickering backwards and forwards amongst the player base would be very simply resolved by a public announcement of what we are and are not allowed to get away with.
If something is an exploit for goodness sake tell us so we can all get on with doing things that are acceptable and not waste our time trying to get a tactical advantage from things that are considered exploits.
Sometimes playing Eve is like trying to find your way blindfold through a city centre in rush hour, you keep trying to get home but find yourself run over repeatedly.
... having just written all that......
I know the counter arguement is that the idiots amongst us will just utilise every publically announced exploit if they hadn't thought of it previously. There is a risk of announcing a crime only to find the act of commiting the crime becomes more common place.
However, I'm in the camp that believes that if you announce what is acceptable and what is not, then 90% of the players will adhere to those 'rules' and the other 10% should just be banned on the spot.
At the very least I'd like CCP to admit their policy to dealing with these exploits and if that policy is to not make said exploit publically known for fear of it becoming commonplace and the GM's getting flooded with petitions.... then at least tell us that is the policy.
It would also be nice for CCP to tell us all how often they brief their GM's about newly discovered exploits and how they try to ensure we get a uniform and consistent response from GMs, as if you belive half the things you hear in game and in the forums GM's responses can vary wildly.
At the moment we're all fumbling in the dark.
A little clear communication from the good folks at CCP would be greatly appreciated from this pilot at the very least.
In summary.... can we at the very least be advised as to...
A clear definition of CCP's policy regarding dealing with exploits.
What CCP's policy is regarding informing the player base what is an exploit and what is not.
How CCP keep the GMs informed of current exploit issues.
How CCP manage the GMs responses to ensure they are consistent.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.25 05:48:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/11/2003 05:48:52 I use the scanner to find people. Ban me for it and I'll take my dollars, along with the story of what happened, where ever I go.
That's what got SOE/Verant the reputation for being Ban Happy.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.25 07:36:00 -
[65]
Quote: Edited by: Omniwar on 25/11/2003 04:35:54 Edited by: Omniwar on 25/11/2003 04:33:35
Quote: There's a difference between warping through a grid to somewhere like a planet or gate and warping INTO a grid in order to negate the invul timer.
As for coming out 100km from a gate, ever heard of long-range guns?
Might not get battleships but with no invul timer you're quite likely to lock and destroy indies and possibly cruisers.
I've seen it in 36N at the gate leading to U-QVWD - 20 CA battleships hiding in the grid 30km behind that gate. Don't tell me they're all so inept at scanning it takes all 20 of them to scan the gate with nobody around it?
You didnt read my reply did you?
If you did then you would know that in those situations it is needed to scan for peaple at certain places to know how many and what kind of ships they have, it is better to know the strengh of the enemy before actually engaging him.
I dont stay in one grid and sneak to the next one to kill peaple.
You say you know about others staying in one grid to sneak in the next grid for advantage, report it.
Quote: It doesn't take long to scan if you use a "tigh beam", i.e. 15¦ scan. You can avoid taking in most of the asteroids and such unless you are very unlucky.
Heck, you can do it with the 30¦ scan most of the time as well.
I'm starting to think we're getting a very one-sided version of what happened there...
Do you spend all your time in EVE fighting, and usually in the same few systems, if you dont then you have no idea whatsoever about what you are replying to.
When you have forces attacking you everyday that have at least two times the ships your gang has then you get bored scanning from planets and/or moons since you have thousands of asteroids on you scanner as well, that time you cant afford to loose in a war were you are outnumbered.
One sided story? If I post my conversation with The GM this thread will be locked as my 2 or 3 previous posts have been today.
FACT : The pilots in 4C thought I was using a grid exploit and thus 5 of them reported me, the time they thought I was exploiting I never ever moved my ship, not one meter, never shot a shot.
FACT : GM said I would be banned if I would scan from another grid to see the strengh of the enemy force.
FACT : I asked that if someone else would use that tactic on me and my friends and kill us would we then get our ships back, he said NO.
Results are that it is an exploit to scan another grid and you will be banned, however the peaple you kill will not get thier ships back.
As far as I know everyone gets thier ships and items back if indeed exploit was used, not in this case, why ? Perhaps there is no exploit.
It was only a GM acting on behalf of 5 petitions and disregarding all rules to show his power.
As you may or may not have noticed then they have not replied to any of my questions on the forums and my posts and posts from other peaple have been locked because we wanted answers.
I think that since they wont reply puplicly they know that the GM did more that he was allowed to do.
Thus scanning from another grid is indeed not an exploit if CCP is NOT WILLING to announce so puplicly.
Who knows, noone will know until CCP speaks up so everyone knows, not just one single pilot that is threatend in a private conversation.
You must be very lame at using the scanner if you need to get within 100km of your scanning target, really.
Your excuse is paper thin.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.25 13:57:00 -
[66]
Quote: You must be very lame at using the scanner if you need to get within 100km of your scanning target, really.
Your excuse is paper thin.
You really dont get it.
I¦m not making excuses.
If it is an exploid CCP should inform ALL players, not just single out one player and then deny him the option of making it public.
If it is not an exploit the GM had NO RIGHT threatening me with a ban for something I did not do in the first place.
You are missing the point, if you read the posts then you see that I am asking for Puplic announcement from CCP wich they clearly are not willing to give.
I think, and as do probably most of players in EVE that exploits should be made public so that we know what we can and can not do.
Right now it seems that we can send in petitions and say that certain pilots are exploiting and the GM¦s act on thier own and follow no known rules and threaten with a ban.
NOTE, in the system in question I dont even have friggin bookmarks that are out of grid except safepoints that are few AU from the nearest object in space, and that I told the GM and told him to look in my bookmarks and made his point usless, still he insisted that I would be banned if I would do it.
NOTE I am most of my time in FD-MLJ and when peaple feel brave and want to boost thier egos they come in fleets that are usually 4-6 times the ships we have, that makes it virtually impossible to warp in a moon or planet that is close to where they camp since they usually have scouts at those locations.
If I or anyone else were to warp in on moon/planet to scan and either a) find a pilot there we can not scan since he could warp jam me/them and his friends warp in and eliminate me/them with superiour force, b) no one is at the moon/planet and I/they scan, while we wait for the scan to complete one of the enemy force warps in and could warp jam me/them if there is lag since the scanner is checking hundreds of asteroids.
I have no problem with this IF EVERYONE HAS TO DO IT.
The funny thing is that everyone that is active in FD-MLJ uses bookmraks close to station/gates to scan for the enemy and right now it has been said to one pilot (me) that this is an exploit.
They are putting limitations on my gameplay while EVERYONE else has not those limitations.
Either something is an exploit and everyone knows they cant do it or it is allowed for everyone to use.
It cant be mix of both, this is a game and games have rules, those rules should not be broken or bent by anyone and that includes the GM¦s.
Again I ask for an aswer from CCP and yet still no reply, so that keeps peaple wondering if it is indeed and exploit or not. Spawn of the Devil
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.25 15:15:00 -
[67]
OK now let¦s see if I understood this right... I¦m a lottle slow today
I set a bookmark close to a stargate... say... 500km or something. I use this BM to scan the gate in order to see if somebody is near that gate or not. Am I now exploiting? If yes, why??
Where¦s the difference between scanning the gate from a safespot that¦s around 500km out and scanning the same location from a nearby moon or a deepspace bookmark?
In both cases you have the almighty grid between you and the people at the gate. There¦s no way to prevent this. The only way to prevent having a grid between you and the people at the gate would be directly warping to the gate. For EVERY scout in EvE this is absolutely unacceptable, period. If you¦re not allowed to scan a gate from a nearby bookmark then PvP-scouting in EvE is DEAD. Nobody would ever be able to even identify enemy fleets until they¦re right on top of you, smacking you around.
Now if that really is an exploit then why do we even have the option to set bookmarks in deepsace? Enlighten me please.
I understand that MWDing to the gate from a BM that¦s maybe 200km out or even closer isn¦t exactly fair, but why am I exploiting if all I do is scanning and nothing else? Am I also exploiting when I warp to the gate from that BM? I mean... isn¦t that the same as if I was coming from anywhere else?
Mai's Idealog |
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