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Enough with the Nanophoons already.

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Thor Ba'aleron	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:59:00 - [1] Back in 2004 when I started playing, people started putting dual mwds and MWD/AB combos on just about every battleship. Obviously this posed a problem, and this ship-type became so common, that pirates and 0.0 raiders flew this ship almost exclusively. The dual-MWD raven was quickly nerfed in a number of ways. Firstly, dual-MWD was banned, as was MWD/AB combnations. Oversized AB use in ships such as Caracals and Mallers to get a MWD effect without the cap penalty was similarily nerfed. When cruisers got their second bonus, the ability for a Thorax to carry 8 heavy drones and mount 2 MWD's without cap penalty was recognized as seriously unbalanced. Ravens were further "nerfed" with the much-needed application of velocity and sig radius to torpedoes, and the removal of the siege launcher's ability to fire cruise missiles. Now, once again it is commonplace to see (mainly) Typhoons flying at 5-7km/s, and all but unkillable by any single ship. Speed tanks rule, and this very easy to fly battleship is horribly overpowered in the hands of a skilled pilot, and still very, very dangerous when flown by a mediocre one. For those not familliar with this ship-type, it is quite simply a battleship which flies at high speed, uses 5 heavy drones, and carries 4 heavy nosferatu and 5 siege launchers. This ship is nearly impossible to tackle. Any interceptor that gets close to it (and not very many interceptors can catch one) may fall victim to nosferatu or drones, and even a vagabond is very vulnerable when 120km off a gate all by itself due to the NOS. Even when jammed by a scorpion at the gate, the nanophoon can easily escape tacking as mounting two WCS even after the nerf does not hinder the ship much apparenrly.... as we had 2 points on it and a full jam when it decided to warp out. Certianly no single ship (unless another BS with a similar fit) is in any position to take out this ship 1v1. The drawbacks? Well this ship requires a 100m isk MWD and probably a set of snake implants to fly... certianly no joke to be sure. The typhoon requires a lot of skill points in navigation, missiles, and drones to fly. With rigs this ship will get even faster. It's possible that the much-anticipated nerf to Nosferatu may put a damper on this ship, but I doubt it. 7km/s Battleships have shown to be outrageous in the past, and CPP has responded. nothing short of a vagabond tackler and an EWar ship will bring down this ship, and a skilled pilot is virtually invincible when flying this battleship. Thoughts?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:02:00 - [2] Train for a huggin? Sig Nerf - Cortes I declare war on ISD! You don't stand a chance -Karl
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:04:00 - [3] Tought? Tought is that Minmatar battleships are so iferior on straight cvombat that its the only way to fight. Stop trying to remove our single advantage! Minmatar cant have the higher damage anymore ( we loose turrets like crazy now)... minmatar than can't have speed anymore, should shield tank, but with less mid slot than caldari. What are we supposed to do then? On a Minmatar pilot perspective the other Battleships are too tough, cut Ammar and gallente armor by half and take the missiles from the raven. that would be the equivalent of nerfing matar speed. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:04:00 - [4] Edited by: DiuxDium on 19/12/2006 10:09:28 1st Paragraph) Completly off-topic. 2nd Paragraph) You loose all credibility by not being able to count to 8. Blatent exagerations. As well as claiming a Phoon with 2x Stabs can lock an interceptor before downtime. 3rd Paragraph) More exagerations, less facts, more whinning. While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. So to claim it's "Untacklable" is beyond absurd. I'll also take the time to mention the Nanophoon has ZERO tank. "Speed" tank doesn't do much when you're moving at 10m/s using up 100mn MWD worth of cap. Either way, that's about it. Your post is silly, I hope you come equiped with a flame-suit. Edit: Hold on, something in your post grabbed my attention, and i've gotta laugh. The Nanophoon you were fighting did the following. It had 9 high slots. The PG for 4x Nos 5x Seige II's. It fitted 2x Warp core Stabs. Was able to lock an Interceptor and pop it before it could web the Phoon down. It moved at 7km/s (With minimum of 2x low slots taken up by WCS). WTB "Jovian Typhoon"
Ephemeron The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:09:00 - [5] Quote: While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. Nanophoons typically have at least 2 heavy nos. They can effectively neutralize 2 intys that try to get in web range. You pretty much need a small gank squad + force recons to kill a skilled phoon pilot.
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. Nanophoons typically have at least 2 heavy nos. They can effectively neutralize 2 intys that try to get in web range. You pretty much need a small gank squad + force recons to kill a skilled phoon pilot. According to his setup it can lock intys in a snap using 2x WCS. I'm not arguing it's a good ship. I am going to argue against it being as overpowerd as the OP is trying to paint though. Also, AFAIK, you can do the exact same thing on a Rokh. The phoon isn't exactly a nimble little flower, so the advantage it has over a "NanoRokh" is minimal. 5% ROF is the only real diffrence, and honestly, i'm not in tears over it.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. Nanophoons typically have at least 2 heavy nos. They can effectively neutralize 2 intys that try to get in web range. You pretty much need a small gank squad + force recons to kill a skilled phoon pilot. A huggin and another Battleship make short work of nanophoon. Or a celestis and 1 ceptor. Cheap and no chance for phoon. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:30:00 - [8] Originally by: DiuxDium Also, AFAIK, you can do the exact same thing on a Rokh. The phoon isn't exactly a nimble little flower, so the advantage it has over a "NanoRokh" is minimal. 5% ROF is the only real diffrence, and honestly, i'm not in tears over it. It's not exactly the only difference; Typhoon has base speed of 150 m/s compared to Rokh's 110 m/s, 100,000,000 kg mass instead of 120,000,000 km and two more lows. In other words, it has the potential to be a lot faster and a lot more agile. --- Wave of Mutilation 2
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:34:00 - [9] Lol, from what I've seen of my friends and enemies using nanophoons, they're either a great success or a terrible failure. I've seen enough nanophoons on the killboards not to believe that it's as overpowered as you say. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:36:00 - [10] a rokh maybe not... but a domi is probably as good, if not better than the phoon... problem is more about the inertia stabs that makes these fitting too easy and cheap. about the 7km phoon with tons of SP, full pirate implants and expensive stuff... many ships with such "situations" becomes "unkillable" for an average bs or extremely effective, probably even more than a nanophoon Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:41:00 - [11] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 19/12/2006 10:47:17 Originally by: Ath Amon a rokh maybe not... but a domi is probably as good, if not better than the phoon... problem is more about the inertia stabs that makes these fitting too easy and cheap. about the 7km phoon with tons of SP, full pirate implants and expensive stuff... many ships with such "situations" becomes "unkillable" for an average bs or extremely effective, probably even more than a nanophoon Agreed, EW setups using tracking disruptors, nos / neuts, ECM, dampners, as well as EW drones can do this, as well as sniper setups. Speed setups just are yet another possibility that don't tend to be considered as often as your typical gank / tank config. Under certain circumstances those "outside the box" setups can be extremely difficult to kill, though they almost always have some sort of critical weakness. I've seen nanophoons evaporate in seconds after being webbed, and I've also seen one with smartbomb plow through a pile of frigs for a nice handful of pod kills. As for the previous mention of how the nanophoon can neutralize tacklers trying to web it, you'd be surprised what is possible with some proper warp-in positioning and some webber drones. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Kovach Lyudozherc	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:45:00 - [12] I was taking hits for 350dmg+ orbiting a hyperion at 2800m/s on 17km distance. It was the same at 11km and 2400 m/s. Fortunately I lost the phoon on the test server. So how do you fly a nanophoon?
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:45:00 - [13] Zelots can go so fast you wouldent beleve but withought missiles/drones theres no piont in doing so. same applies for any ship with no drone bay and nothing but turrets it can zoom about like crazy and again theres no piont if it cant attack withought missiles if it was to be balanced each race needs a BS that can speed tank 6k m/s nos and spam missiles as each race cant theres no balance. I wonder what people would say if there were Geddons with 8 nos and 5 Heavy drones that could do 7k m/s with the orbit of a frigate its fkin insaine. It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Brother Tycho Zelots can go so fast you wouldent beleve but withought missiles/drones theres no piont in doing so. same applies for any ship with no drone bay and nothing but turrets it can zoom about like crazy and again theres no piont if it cant attack withought missiles if it was to be balanced each race needs a BS that can speed tank 6k m/s nos and spam missiles as each race cant theres no balance. I wonder what people would say if there were Geddons with 8 nos and 5 Heavy drones that could do 7k m/s with the orbit of a frigate its fkin insaine. And just how many nanoravens do you see in combat? Nanodomis are rare enough. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:55:00 - [15] Rapier or Huginn will get you nanophoon kills, but not always.... And to be honest the ones going 7km/s are pilots with billions of implants stuck in their heads, minmatar have a speed bonus why shouldnt we use that bonus ? Not too mention that a nanophoon has no tank, so if he does get webbied and locked down, he is gonna die very very quickly Thoughts ? - to be honest, go dig a hole and hide in it. Really the moment any ship goes fast and sacrifices a tank to do that people come out here and whine, nerf,nerf,nerf..... they dont adapt or even bother thinking up other setups to catch the target, they just whine whine whine whine whine... Fact : Snake implants cost a crap load Fact : Faction modules needed to go uber fast cost a crap load Fact : Minmatar ships have a bonus to speed Fact : Minmatar ships sacrifice a tank to achieve these speeds Fact : Minmatar ships are pretty lousy in comparison to other ships of the same class (with exceptions) Fact : Rapiers/Huginns scare the krap out of Nanophoons/Vagabonds etc Fact : CCP gave you the tools and modules to stop these types of ships, so use them !
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Khajit Smitty Rapier or Huginn will get you nanophoon kills, but not always.... And to be honest the ones going 7km/s are pilots with billions of implants stuck in their heads, minmatar have a speed bonus why shouldnt we use that bonus ? Not too mention that a nanophoon has no tank, so if he does get webbied and locked down, he is gonna die very very quickly Thoughts ? - to be honest, go dig a hole and hide in it. Really the moment any ship goes fast and sacrifices a tank to do that people come out here and whine, nerf,nerf,nerf..... they dont adapt or even bother thinking up other setups to catch the target, they just whine whine whine whine whine... Fact : Snake implants cost a crap load Fact : Faction modules needed to go uber fast cost a crap load Fact : Minmatar ships have a bonus to speed Fact : Minmatar ships sacrifice a tank to achieve these speeds Fact : Minmatar ships are pretty lousy in comparison to other ships of the same class (with exceptions) Fact : Rapiers/Huginns scare the krap out of Nanophoons/Vagabonds etc Fact : CCP gave you the tools and modules to stop these types of ships, so use them ! This is the reason im not all that worried things people do on test server dont reflect the real world but incase they did there should be a stacking nerf on nanos and stabs but hey never gonna happen It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:58:00 - [17] Minmatar trademark is speed. Gallente players constantly say that everyone should die to them up close. Well, fine. So let minnie players rule at range with their speed? Or is that just not balanced, because you cant catch them in your slow heavy tanks? Give it a rest already. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:59:00 - [18] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Originally by: Brother Tycho Zelots can go so fast you wouldent beleve but withought missiles/drones theres no piont in doing so. same applies for any ship with no drone bay and nothing but turrets it can zoom about like crazy and again theres no piont if it cant attack withought missiles if it was to be balanced each race needs a BS that can speed tank 6k m/s nos and spam missiles as each race cant theres no balance. I wonder what people would say if there were Geddons with 8 nos and 5 Heavy drones that could do 7k m/s with the orbit of a frigate its fkin insaine. And just how many nanoravens do you see in combat? Nanodomis are rare enough. Nanophoon 4 nos 4 launchers 175 drone bay who would pvp in a raven if they could fly this anyway lol It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:03:00 - [19] Edited by: Brother Tycho on 19/12/2006 11:10:01 Originally by: Jim McGregor Minmatar trademark is speed. Gallente players constantly say that everyone should die to them up close. Well, fine. So let minnie players rule at range with their speed? Or is that just not balanced, because you cant catch them in your slow heavy tanks? Give it a rest already. So along that train of thought Amarrians should kill people with what mystical combonation of events? It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
Liam Fremen Gallente Global Isk Network	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:23:00 - [20] My nano is like this: 4x Knave heavy nosfe (very good cost/drain) 4x "Named" Cruise Launcher (what i loot is good) 1x 28km true sansha warp distruptor (change your life and i just find them in officer weekly) 1x heavy cap booster with 800's 1x 100mn mwd tech2 1x tracking distruptor / target painter 4x nanofiber + 3x inerthial stabilyzer (or any combo i find in hangar :) ) The key of this fit is just the true sansha scrambler beacause you can stay at 25km instead of 18 :) and is a very very big difference! enemy tracks you better, but you are out of enemy scramble range :)
Ejderdisi Caldari Dark Starshine Galaxia Union	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:46:00 - [21] my 2 isk don't touch nanophoons They are doing what they should do.. Speed So it's balanced. We can't tell domi pilots to stop wtfpawn our tier2-tier3 BS because its only tier1 and it's unbalanced. Though we can hate from Domis and Nanophoons But out of box setups are beautifull. Just makes the game fun... If every BS starts to fly like interceptors hell its boring then. And nerf it. As now NOS needs one good kick in balls. Dont touch racial diffrences. If it has a counter it is not overpowered...
Sherpondeldey	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:55:00 - [22] Hey man. Use some guns then! At 25km your Knave Heavy Nosferatus just DON'T WORK!!! u need at least Diminishing NOS for that purpose and keep an orbit at [24,25) km
Dooshotron Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:09:00 - [23] So its a tough setup to pin down, deal with it.... Sounds like a lack of skills and/or ideas on your part sir... Recruiting.
Kamazani Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:11:00 - [24] let's all pitch in for a wholesale sized box of maxi-pads and Kleenex for this guy. (the op) --------------------------- by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44 whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman?
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:15:00 - [25] As someone's pionted out in another thread a nanophoon has a Sig Radius the size Paris so shooting one works nicely but as everyone one the test servers in a missile/drone/nos/EW ship they think its overpowerd. It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
DarkElf Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:27:00 - [26] yeah ur right if someone spends billions on implants and ship setup then it really should be able to be killed by 1 ship ppl whine all the time about ships being overpowered but if u spend that much on a ship/implants the why shouldn't it be powerful? oh and to the person saying the rokh does the same, ur wrong i'ma fraid. much less dps from launchers, only 50m3 drone bay and less low slots make it not a patch on the phoon. to be fair minmatar are the only race who can effectively speed tank and why the hell shouldn't it be good? it's not like they ahve anything else going for them DE
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Jim McGregor Minmatar trademark is speed. Gallente players constantly say that everyone should die to them up close. Well, fine. So let minnie players rule at range with their speed? Or is that just not balanced, because you cant catch them in your slow heavy tanks? Give it a rest already. Shut up with the gallante whine ffs. Nanodomi for the ***** win. Originally by:** Victor Ramirez using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
Justice Bringer Minmatar United Univers	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:42:00 - [28] Originally by: DarkElf yeah ur right if someone spends billions on implants and ship setup then it really should be able to be killed by 1 ship ppl whine all the time about ships being overpowered but if u spend that much on a ship/implants the why shouldn't it be powerful? oh and to the person saying the rokh does the same, ur wrong i'ma fraid. much less dps from launchers, only 50m3 drone bay and less low slots make it not a patch on the phoon. to be fair minmatar are the only race who can effectively speed tank and why the hell shouldn't it be good? it's not like they ahve anything else going for them DE Agreed. What the OP is basically saying is that pilots shouldn't fit nano fibres in their low slots so they should just be slow sitting ducks instead of a real challenge to others who have designs on taking them on. OP, think outside the box if you tackle a fast BS, but if you cannot then stay clear of them and let those with better ship fitting and combat skills take them on. Justice
Lanfear's Bane Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:47:00 - [29] Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane.
Elliott Manchild omen.	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:56:00 - [30] Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 19/12/2006 13:57:47 I love the idea of the nanophoon and nanodominix. but theres to many of them around now imo and they are very boring to fight and if your solo theres nothing you can do to get them (unless there idiots). Theres nothing there can be done about them I dunno, to me 3/4 people in them in same gang and flying them 90% of the time just seems boring to me. Your sig is too big, maximum size is 24000 bytes. Email us at [email protected] if you have any questions. - Devil I've been h4xed :(

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