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Thor Ba'aleron	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:59:00 - [1] Back in 2004 when I started playing, people started putting dual mwds and MWD/AB combos on just about every battleship. Obviously this posed a problem, and this ship-type became so common, that pirates and 0.0 raiders flew this ship almost exclusively. The dual-MWD raven was quickly nerfed in a number of ways. Firstly, dual-MWD was banned, as was MWD/AB combnations. Oversized AB use in ships such as Caracals and Mallers to get a MWD effect without the cap penalty was similarily nerfed. When cruisers got their second bonus, the ability for a Thorax to carry 8 heavy drones and mount 2 MWD's without cap penalty was recognized as seriously unbalanced. Ravens were further "nerfed" with the much-needed application of velocity and sig radius to torpedoes, and the removal of the siege launcher's ability to fire cruise missiles. Now, once again it is commonplace to see (mainly) Typhoons flying at 5-7km/s, and all but unkillable by any single ship. Speed tanks rule, and this very easy to fly battleship is horribly overpowered in the hands of a skilled pilot, and still very, very dangerous when flown by a mediocre one. For those not familliar with this ship-type, it is quite simply a battleship which flies at high speed, uses 5 heavy drones, and carries 4 heavy nosferatu and 5 siege launchers. This ship is nearly impossible to tackle. Any interceptor that gets close to it (and not very many interceptors can catch one) may fall victim to nosferatu or drones, and even a vagabond is very vulnerable when 120km off a gate all by itself due to the NOS. Even when jammed by a scorpion at the gate, the nanophoon can easily escape tacking as mounting two WCS even after the nerf does not hinder the ship much apparenrly.... as we had 2 points on it and a full jam when it decided to warp out. Certianly no single ship (unless another BS with a similar fit) is in any position to take out this ship 1v1. The drawbacks? Well this ship requires a 100m isk MWD and probably a set of snake implants to fly... certianly no joke to be sure. The typhoon requires a lot of skill points in navigation, missiles, and drones to fly. With rigs this ship will get even faster. It's possible that the much-anticipated nerf to Nosferatu may put a damper on this ship, but I doubt it. 7km/s Battleships have shown to be outrageous in the past, and CPP has responded. nothing short of a vagabond tackler and an EWar ship will bring down this ship, and a skilled pilot is virtually invincible when flying this battleship. Thoughts?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:02:00 - [2] Train for a huggin? Sig Nerf - Cortes I declare war on ISD! You don't stand a chance -Karl
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:04:00 - [3] Tought? Tought is that Minmatar battleships are so iferior on straight cvombat that its the only way to fight. Stop trying to remove our single advantage! Minmatar cant have the higher damage anymore ( we loose turrets like crazy now)... minmatar than can't have speed anymore, should shield tank, but with less mid slot than caldari. What are we supposed to do then? On a Minmatar pilot perspective the other Battleships are too tough, cut Ammar and gallente armor by half and take the missiles from the raven. that would be the equivalent of nerfing matar speed. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:04:00 - [4] Edited by: DiuxDium on 19/12/2006 10:09:28 1st Paragraph) Completly off-topic. 2nd Paragraph) You loose all credibility by not being able to count to 8. Blatent exagerations. As well as claiming a Phoon with 2x Stabs can lock an interceptor before downtime. 3rd Paragraph) More exagerations, less facts, more whinning. While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. So to claim it's "Untacklable" is beyond absurd. I'll also take the time to mention the Nanophoon has ZERO tank. "Speed" tank doesn't do much when you're moving at 10m/s using up 100mn MWD worth of cap. Either way, that's about it. Your post is silly, I hope you come equiped with a flame-suit. Edit: Hold on, something in your post grabbed my attention, and i've gotta laugh. The Nanophoon you were fighting did the following. It had 9 high slots. The PG for 4x Nos 5x Seige II's. It fitted 2x Warp core Stabs. Was able to lock an Interceptor and pop it before it could web the Phoon down. It moved at 7km/s (With minimum of 2x low slots taken up by WCS). WTB "Jovian Typhoon"
Ephemeron The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:09:00 - [5] Quote: While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. Nanophoons typically have at least 2 heavy nos. They can effectively neutralize 2 intys that try to get in web range. You pretty much need a small gank squad + force recons to kill a skilled phoon pilot.
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. Nanophoons typically have at least 2 heavy nos. They can effectively neutralize 2 intys that try to get in web range. You pretty much need a small gank squad + force recons to kill a skilled phoon pilot. According to his setup it can lock intys in a snap using 2x WCS. I'm not arguing it's a good ship. I am going to argue against it being as overpowerd as the OP is trying to paint though. Also, AFAIK, you can do the exact same thing on a Rokh. The phoon isn't exactly a nimble little flower, so the advantage it has over a "NanoRokh" is minimal. 5% ROF is the only real diffrence, and honestly, i'm not in tears over it.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. Nanophoons typically have at least 2 heavy nos. They can effectively neutralize 2 intys that try to get in web range. You pretty much need a small gank squad + force recons to kill a skilled phoon pilot. A huggin and another Battleship make short work of nanophoon. Or a celestis and 1 ceptor. Cheap and no chance for phoon. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:30:00 - [8] Originally by: DiuxDium Also, AFAIK, you can do the exact same thing on a Rokh. The phoon isn't exactly a nimble little flower, so the advantage it has over a "NanoRokh" is minimal. 5% ROF is the only real diffrence, and honestly, i'm not in tears over it. It's not exactly the only difference; Typhoon has base speed of 150 m/s compared to Rokh's 110 m/s, 100,000,000 kg mass instead of 120,000,000 km and two more lows. In other words, it has the potential to be a lot faster and a lot more agile. --- Wave of Mutilation 2
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:34:00 - [9] Lol, from what I've seen of my friends and enemies using nanophoons, they're either a great success or a terrible failure. I've seen enough nanophoons on the killboards not to believe that it's as overpowered as you say. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:36:00 - [10] a rokh maybe not... but a domi is probably as good, if not better than the phoon... problem is more about the inertia stabs that makes these fitting too easy and cheap. about the 7km phoon with tons of SP, full pirate implants and expensive stuff... many ships with such "situations" becomes "unkillable" for an average bs or extremely effective, probably even more than a nanophoon Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:41:00 - [11] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 19/12/2006 10:47:17 Originally by: Ath Amon a rokh maybe not... but a domi is probably as good, if not better than the phoon... problem is more about the inertia stabs that makes these fitting too easy and cheap. about the 7km phoon with tons of SP, full pirate implants and expensive stuff... many ships with such "situations" becomes "unkillable" for an average bs or extremely effective, probably even more than a nanophoon Agreed, EW setups using tracking disruptors, nos / neuts, ECM, dampners, as well as EW drones can do this, as well as sniper setups. Speed setups just are yet another possibility that don't tend to be considered as often as your typical gank / tank config. Under certain circumstances those "outside the box" setups can be extremely difficult to kill, though they almost always have some sort of critical weakness. I've seen nanophoons evaporate in seconds after being webbed, and I've also seen one with smartbomb plow through a pile of frigs for a nice handful of pod kills. As for the previous mention of how the nanophoon can neutralize tacklers trying to web it, you'd be surprised what is possible with some proper warp-in positioning and some webber drones. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Kovach Lyudozherc	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:45:00 - [12] I was taking hits for 350dmg+ orbiting a hyperion at 2800m/s on 17km distance. It was the same at 11km and 2400 m/s. Fortunately I lost the phoon on the test server. So how do you fly a nanophoon?
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:45:00 - [13] Zelots can go so fast you wouldent beleve but withought missiles/drones theres no piont in doing so. same applies for any ship with no drone bay and nothing but turrets it can zoom about like crazy and again theres no piont if it cant attack withought missiles if it was to be balanced each race needs a BS that can speed tank 6k m/s nos and spam missiles as each race cant theres no balance. I wonder what people would say if there were Geddons with 8 nos and 5 Heavy drones that could do 7k m/s with the orbit of a frigate its fkin insaine. It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Brother Tycho Zelots can go so fast you wouldent beleve but withought missiles/drones theres no piont in doing so. same applies for any ship with no drone bay and nothing but turrets it can zoom about like crazy and again theres no piont if it cant attack withought missiles if it was to be balanced each race needs a BS that can speed tank 6k m/s nos and spam missiles as each race cant theres no balance. I wonder what people would say if there were Geddons with 8 nos and 5 Heavy drones that could do 7k m/s with the orbit of a frigate its fkin insaine. And just how many nanoravens do you see in combat? Nanodomis are rare enough. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:55:00 - [15] Rapier or Huginn will get you nanophoon kills, but not always.... And to be honest the ones going 7km/s are pilots with billions of implants stuck in their heads, minmatar have a speed bonus why shouldnt we use that bonus ? Not too mention that a nanophoon has no tank, so if he does get webbied and locked down, he is gonna die very very quickly Thoughts ? - to be honest, go dig a hole and hide in it. Really the moment any ship goes fast and sacrifices a tank to do that people come out here and whine, nerf,nerf,nerf..... they dont adapt or even bother thinking up other setups to catch the target, they just whine whine whine whine whine... Fact : Snake implants cost a crap load Fact : Faction modules needed to go uber fast cost a crap load Fact : Minmatar ships have a bonus to speed Fact : Minmatar ships sacrifice a tank to achieve these speeds Fact : Minmatar ships are pretty lousy in comparison to other ships of the same class (with exceptions) Fact : Rapiers/Huginns scare the krap out of Nanophoons/Vagabonds etc Fact : CCP gave you the tools and modules to stop these types of ships, so use them !
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Khajit Smitty Rapier or Huginn will get you nanophoon kills, but not always.... And to be honest the ones going 7km/s are pilots with billions of implants stuck in their heads, minmatar have a speed bonus why shouldnt we use that bonus ? Not too mention that a nanophoon has no tank, so if he does get webbied and locked down, he is gonna die very very quickly Thoughts ? - to be honest, go dig a hole and hide in it. Really the moment any ship goes fast and sacrifices a tank to do that people come out here and whine, nerf,nerf,nerf..... they dont adapt or even bother thinking up other setups to catch the target, they just whine whine whine whine whine... Fact : Snake implants cost a crap load Fact : Faction modules needed to go uber fast cost a crap load Fact : Minmatar ships have a bonus to speed Fact : Minmatar ships sacrifice a tank to achieve these speeds Fact : Minmatar ships are pretty lousy in comparison to other ships of the same class (with exceptions) Fact : Rapiers/Huginns scare the krap out of Nanophoons/Vagabonds etc Fact : CCP gave you the tools and modules to stop these types of ships, so use them ! This is the reason im not all that worried things people do on test server dont reflect the real world but incase they did there should be a stacking nerf on nanos and stabs but hey never gonna happen It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:58:00 - [17] Minmatar trademark is speed. Gallente players constantly say that everyone should die to them up close. Well, fine. So let minnie players rule at range with their speed? Or is that just not balanced, because you cant catch them in your slow heavy tanks? Give it a rest already. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:59:00 - [18] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Originally by: Brother Tycho Zelots can go so fast you wouldent beleve but withought missiles/drones theres no piont in doing so. same applies for any ship with no drone bay and nothing but turrets it can zoom about like crazy and again theres no piont if it cant attack withought missiles if it was to be balanced each race needs a BS that can speed tank 6k m/s nos and spam missiles as each race cant theres no balance. I wonder what people would say if there were Geddons with 8 nos and 5 Heavy drones that could do 7k m/s with the orbit of a frigate its fkin insaine. And just how many nanoravens do you see in combat? Nanodomis are rare enough. Nanophoon 4 nos 4 launchers 175 drone bay who would pvp in a raven if they could fly this anyway lol It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:03:00 - [19] Edited by: Brother Tycho on 19/12/2006 11:10:01 Originally by: Jim McGregor Minmatar trademark is speed. Gallente players constantly say that everyone should die to them up close. Well, fine. So let minnie players rule at range with their speed? Or is that just not balanced, because you cant catch them in your slow heavy tanks? Give it a rest already. So along that train of thought Amarrians should kill people with what mystical combonation of events? It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
Liam Fremen Gallente Global Isk Network	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:23:00 - [20] My nano is like this: 4x Knave heavy nosfe (very good cost/drain) 4x "Named" Cruise Launcher (what i loot is good) 1x 28km true sansha warp distruptor (change your life and i just find them in officer weekly) 1x heavy cap booster with 800's 1x 100mn mwd tech2 1x tracking distruptor / target painter 4x nanofiber + 3x inerthial stabilyzer (or any combo i find in hangar :) ) The key of this fit is just the true sansha scrambler beacause you can stay at 25km instead of 18 :) and is a very very big difference! enemy tracks you better, but you are out of enemy scramble range :)
Ejderdisi Caldari Dark Starshine Galaxia Union	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:46:00 - [21] my 2 isk don't touch nanophoons They are doing what they should do.. Speed So it's balanced. We can't tell domi pilots to stop wtfpawn our tier2-tier3 BS because its only tier1 and it's unbalanced. Though we can hate from Domis and Nanophoons But out of box setups are beautifull. Just makes the game fun... If every BS starts to fly like interceptors hell its boring then. And nerf it. As now NOS needs one good kick in balls. Dont touch racial diffrences. If it has a counter it is not overpowered...
Sherpondeldey	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:55:00 - [22] Hey man. Use some guns then! At 25km your Knave Heavy Nosferatus just DON'T WORK!!! u need at least Diminishing NOS for that purpose and keep an orbit at [24,25) km
Dooshotron Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:09:00 - [23] So its a tough setup to pin down, deal with it.... Sounds like a lack of skills and/or ideas on your part sir... Recruiting.
Kamazani Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:11:00 - [24] let's all pitch in for a wholesale sized box of maxi-pads and Kleenex for this guy. (the op) --------------------------- by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44 whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman?
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:15:00 - [25] As someone's pionted out in another thread a nanophoon has a Sig Radius the size Paris so shooting one works nicely but as everyone one the test servers in a missile/drone/nos/EW ship they think its overpowerd. It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
DarkElf Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:27:00 - [26] yeah ur right if someone spends billions on implants and ship setup then it really should be able to be killed by 1 ship ppl whine all the time about ships being overpowered but if u spend that much on a ship/implants the why shouldn't it be powerful? oh and to the person saying the rokh does the same, ur wrong i'ma fraid. much less dps from launchers, only 50m3 drone bay and less low slots make it not a patch on the phoon. to be fair minmatar are the only race who can effectively speed tank and why the hell shouldn't it be good? it's not like they ahve anything else going for them DE
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Jim McGregor Minmatar trademark is speed. Gallente players constantly say that everyone should die to them up close. Well, fine. So let minnie players rule at range with their speed? Or is that just not balanced, because you cant catch them in your slow heavy tanks? Give it a rest already. Shut up with the gallante whine ffs. Nanodomi for the ***** win. Originally by:** Victor Ramirez using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
Justice Bringer Minmatar United Univers	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:42:00 - [28] Originally by: DarkElf yeah ur right if someone spends billions on implants and ship setup then it really should be able to be killed by 1 ship ppl whine all the time about ships being overpowered but if u spend that much on a ship/implants the why shouldn't it be powerful? oh and to the person saying the rokh does the same, ur wrong i'ma fraid. much less dps from launchers, only 50m3 drone bay and less low slots make it not a patch on the phoon. to be fair minmatar are the only race who can effectively speed tank and why the hell shouldn't it be good? it's not like they ahve anything else going for them DE Agreed. What the OP is basically saying is that pilots shouldn't fit nano fibres in their low slots so they should just be slow sitting ducks instead of a real challenge to others who have designs on taking them on. OP, think outside the box if you tackle a fast BS, but if you cannot then stay clear of them and let those with better ship fitting and combat skills take them on. Justice
Lanfear's Bane Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:47:00 - [29] Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane.
Elliott Manchild omen.	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:56:00 - [30] Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 19/12/2006 13:57:47 I love the idea of the nanophoon and nanodominix. but theres to many of them around now imo and they are very boring to fight and if your solo theres nothing you can do to get them (unless there idiots). Theres nothing there can be done about them I dunno, to me 3/4 people in them in same gang and flying them 90% of the time just seems boring to me. Your sig is too big, maximum size is 24000 bytes. Email us at [email protected] if you have any questions. - Devil I've been h4xed :(
DoctorColossal Pervius	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:01:00 - [31] Webber drones *****es!
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron The drawbacks? Well this ship requires a 100m isk MWD and probably a set of snake implants to fly... certianly no joke to be sure. The typhoon requires a lot of skill points in navigation, missiles, and drones to fly. Nuff said. --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
DarkElf Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Elliott Manchild Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 19/12/2006 13:57:47 I love the idea of the nanophoon and nanodominix. but theres to many of them around now imo and they are very boring to fight and if your solo theres nothing you can do to get them (unless there idiots). Theres nothing there can be done about them I dunno, to me 3/4 people in them in same gang and flying them 90% of the time just seems boring to me. How can you say they're boring to fight? I've lost count of the number of bs i've fought in say a blaster bs or something that turns into a blast fest of who can blast harder and tank better. those are the kinda fights that get boring after a few years Fighting a ship that i struggle to tackle, find hard to inflict damage on so have to call for a friends help or adjust my setup to counter it or change ship to pin him down. That's what i call an exiting battle, something a bit different. DE
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:52:00 - [34] I wish I had the skills for the NanoCurse, it puts NosDomis and Vagabonds to shame.
Katamarino Blazing Angels Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:06:00 - [35] To be fair, most Minmatar ships are practically invincible in the hands of a skilled pilot - their speed advantage and lack of weapon cap use (meaning that they can much more easily fit MWD) means that they can almost always pick their targets and simply run away if any actual resistance appears. Vagabond, Stabber, and Rupture in particular.
Dillius Archania	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Brother Tycho This is the reason im not all that worried things people do on test server dont reflect the real world but incase they did there should be a stacking nerf on nanos and stabs but hey never gonna happen They did nerf the heck outa many other ship builds through stacking nerfs, I don't see why this should be any different. We can't super stack heat sinks for massive damage, yet we as a race are supposed to have these oh so powerful damage lasers, so it makes perfect sense to do the same to a race that is intended to be born of speed.
Freaky Bare Minmatar Blueprint Haus Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:44:00 - [37] The problem is not that they are overpowered. The problem is they can easily warp out to avoid fighting. Who needs a shield or armor tank if no one can hit you more than once or twice? They make a perfect raiding BS. Normally, it is only frigs that can expect to escape and evade. If it was not so difficult to stop the Phoon from escaping, then the pilots would not use such expensive setups and they could not stand up in a fight. My point, of course, is that comparisons of fighting ability are a waste of time. The real point is that they are almost impossible to catch without a well planned trap, and that even with one they can usually excape. Even a bubble is not effective unless combined with enough webs to stop them and much luck. So my complaint is that I fail to see the point of an Interceptor if a BS does the same job with much more punch. I am not an Alt, I am punctuation.
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:52:00 - [38] They are easy to kill. The Pilots that fly them generally think they have an aura of invunerability and will go looking for kills aggressively. I use a triple webbing BS to kill them. Basically, sit at a station in dock range, they will manuever to bump you off, just smack them with the 3 webs and kill them. Its about the only situation where you can bait a nanoBS to attack you within web range ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Freaky Bare The problem is not that they are overpowered. The problem is they can easily warp out to avoid fighting. Who needs a shield or armor tank if no one can hit you more than once or twice? They make a perfect raiding BS. Normally, it is only frigs that can expect to escape and evade. If it was not so difficult to stop the Phoon from escaping, then the pilots would not use such expensive setups and they could not stand up in a fight. My point, of course, is that comparisons of fighting ability are a waste of time. The real point is that they are almost impossible to catch without a well planned trap, and that even with one they can usually excape. Even a bubble is not effective unless combined with enough webs to stop them and much luck. So my complaint is that I fail to see the point of an Interceptor if a BS does the same job with much more punch. It might have something to do with the fact that I don't need a ton of skills, faction equipment, and billions in implants to fly an interceptor. Oh, and I can sure as hell lock down something much faster than any battleship. Just as this ship is only good in specific circumstances, you need specific circumstances to bring it down. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Jason Marshall Hammer Of Light Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:56:00 - [40] Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: While the Nanophoon is good, A stilleto with a dual web, can and will stop it dead in its track. Adding to that that a dual-web stilleto can also field a mwd\scram. Or a 3x Web if it gets bored. Nanophoons typically have at least 2 heavy nos. They can effectively neutralize 2 intys that try to get in web range. You pretty much need a small gank squad + force recons to kill a skilled phoon pilot. According to his setup it can lock intys in a snap using 2x WCS. I'm not arguing it's a good ship. I am going to argue against it being as overpowerd as the OP is trying to paint though. Also, AFAIK, you can do the exact same thing on a Rokh. The phoon isn't exactly a nimble little flower, so the advantage it has over a "NanoRokh" is minimal. 5% ROF is the only real diffrence, and honestly, i'm not in tears over it. Ive seen it done verywell on the drake. I know not BS but still the setup can work on most missle boats. Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
Kaar Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:06:00 - [41] Originally by: Bazman They are easy to kill. The Pilots that fly them generally think they have an aura of invunerability and will go looking for kills aggressively. I use a triple webbing BS to kill them. Basically, sit at a station in dock range, they will manuever to bump you off, just smack them with the 3 webs and kill them. Its about the only situation where you can bait a nanoBS to attack you within web range True. --- ---
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:09:00 - [42] Phoons aren't hard to kill.
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.19 17:02:00 - [43] Nanophoons are really not that hot unless you spend alot of money on faction mods and implants. I killed one the other day in a Typhoon of my own personal design while being whailed on by a Vaga and a Arazu.
Faceoff Tastic	Posted - 2006.12.19 17:28:00 - [44] Edited by: Faceoff Tastic on 19/12/2006 17:28:08 My advice, head towards the nearest celestial object. Be it station, gate, asteroid....whatever. If theyre orbiting you at that speed, they'll hit it, and either get stuck, or bounce hard. Theres your chance for a broken tackle / melt it while its not moving. Thats what I can think of right now. Feck alt post ftl.
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.19 17:31:00 - [45] I have to say though, fighting Nanophoons with about 5 frigates is challenging and well fun. I was involved in 2 such fights and they went on for about 5 to 10 minutes each. Keeping them webbed while being nossed and having to have other frigates come in and replace the web while you get out of nos range and recharge cap etc :p ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.19 17:32:00 - [46] My personal nanophoon has a Gist MWD (not saying which one =P) and a SS warp disruptor. It costs a pretty penny, and you know what? I still fear for my mortality. I've brushed against death one too many times in it to know that one wrong move, one miscalculation, and you're toast. Game over, do not pass Go. That said, I find the ship to be a royal hoot to fly, and I love it. It gets better when you have friends in them, and you strike deep into enemy territory in what amounts to a battleship wolfpack. My only fears are high-skilled ravens (cruise missiles and torps that can catch you hurt), web drones, and other nano-ships. Huginns/Rapiers (still) don't have enough range to web me down before I can wiggle away. Oh, and stop complaining they're uncatchable. WITH the gist MWD, 3's across the board in navigation, and named nanofibers/istabs, mine barely goes 3km/s. This 4-7km/s is a problem with Snakes, not the phoon. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Niskin Minmatar Tadakastu-Obata Corporation Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 18:00:00 - [47] Edited by: Niskin on 19/12/2006 18:00:35 Originally by: Katamarino To be fair, most Minmatar ships are practically invincible in the hands of a skilled pilot - their speed advantage and lack of weapon cap use (meaning that they can much more easily fit MWD) means that they can almost always pick their targets and simply run away if any actual resistance appears. Vagabond, Stabber, and Rupture in particular. Minmatar Ships - Check! Skilled Pilot - ... oh s**t Kat come fly my ships for me!
Darpz Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.19 18:09:00 - [48] Edited by: Darpz on 19/12/2006 18:11:31 Double post
Darpz Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.19 18:11:00 - [49] its just another variation. its a bit overpowerd now but hoestly if you put in small webber drones into the game like they were planned that fixes the whole problem. 10 light webber drones will go a long way to slowing the domi/phoon down to a more manageable speed so you can really latch onto it with normal webs. I mean hell with 5 light web drones a lanchesis could down one solo since they got absolutly no tank.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.19 20:13:00 - [50] Webber drones, target painters, long range weapons[my god, pulse lasers are good for something!] The NanoBSs are already the size of moons, make em a bit bigger and up your tracking. A megabeam with standard ammo and one tracking enhancer is going to hit a nano-phoon with no sig reducing or increasing other than the MWD that is orbiting him at 7000m/s 70% of the time at 33km. How much tank do nano-phoons have? Yea, i thought so. Its not overpowered. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
MacDuncan Minmatar Unknown Society	Posted - 2006.12.19 20:32:00 - [51] Some days before i just lost a (badly fitted) NanoPhoon to 4 Ceptors... If you find some "easy preys", you should be aware that a) when there are 2 Ceptors @ a Gate engaging there is likely another pair of them very near b) Torps don't do enough Dmg towards Intys, especially Mj÷lnirs against Minmi T2 ships c) that the only 5 Warriors I () i carried are also fast popped by 4 ceptors d) heavy drohnes can't catch up w. ceptors e) Claws e.g. don't need cap for doing dmg as well as ceptors w. missile slots. But still it's a lot of fun to fly the Phoon andthe insurance payout is still good... -- Might As well Train Another Race
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.19 23:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane. A specialized small gang to kill a single ship? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.19 23:58:00 - [53] Originally by: MacDuncan Edited by: MacDuncan on 19/12/2006 20:50:59 Some days before i just lost a (badly fitted) NanoPhoon to 4 Ceptors... If you find some "easy preys", you should be aware that a) when there are 2 Ceptors @ a Gate engaging there is likely another pair of them very near b) Torps don't do enough Dmg towards Intys, especially Mj÷lnirs against Minmi T2 ships c) that the only 5 Warriors I () i carried are also fast popped by 4 ceptors d) heavy drohnes can't catch up w. ceptors e) Claws e.g. don't need cap for doing dmg as well as ceptors w. missile slots. But still it's a lot of fun to fly the Phoon andthe insurance payout is still good... Edit: f) last but not least: Don't fly a Nanophoon w. 9mio SP in Gunnery and only 500k SP in Missiles.... I kinda realised that same thing when i couldn't bteak a Sacrilege tank and died to him and a prophecy in my AC + siege typhoon.. 312k in missiles 4tw.
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.20 00:02:00 - [54] Edited by: DiuxDium on 20/12/2006 00:02:07 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane. A specialized small gang to kill a single ship? A Single ship that costs the pilot about a billion in mods and implants to run. So yes. m\b
Dillius Archania	Posted - 2006.12.20 00:11:00 - [55] Originally by: DiuxDium Edited by: DiuxDium on 20/12/2006 00:02:07 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane. A specialized small gang to kill a single ship? A Single ship that costs the pilot about a billion in mods and implants to run. So yes. m\b Well heck in that case, someone got a billion dollar setup for any Amarr BS I can use that effectively? (In all seriousness)
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.20 00:11:00 - [56] For many nights, The Turd of doom was questioning itself about his identity.. It has missiles, it has a satisfying dronebay, a versatility that no other ship in-game has ever acheived, then the patch came and this long fecal looking fellow got himself a role. It is now a speedy waste of minmatar battleship, only good at being exploited to go zoom zoom. It's fun having a one trick poney battleship. Now, you can be a turd of doom that flies 5km/s for a bit of money. You could do that on a vagabond too, but now you can NOS and spam missiles with a steady orbit at over 20km!!! You might even be able to do that same exact lovely thing with a Domination warp disruptor and 4 True Sansha Heavy Nos, packed with T2 cruise and T2 Heavies with 2 volley of light drones, Or full rack of medium drones, like all the non specialised Minmatar *****s that need to find themselves a new ship to run around with. Now, that list there is for all the non minmatar specced out char, since obviously that's what you need to be a decent minmatar battleship pilot, along with torp 5 for the naglfar of doom, which is bassicly the only damned reason why you'd train missile skills! T2 Cruise - 1 month Level 4 Support skills - 3 Weeks Heavy drone 5 + level 4 spec - 1 month Battleship 5 - 1 month LG snake set - 600m Rack of Local hull nanos and inertia stabs - 50m True Sansha Warp disruptor - 80m Heavy cap injector - 1m Rack of drones - 20m T2 cruise - 20m Hardwiring implants - 40m Giving a ship a role? Priceless.
Enmel Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.20 00:36:00 - [57] The nanophoon is great for taking out unsuspecting targets. Matari ship design philosophy is strongly hit and run. Do damage and get out fast. Get a web on a nanophoon and its dead. To the original poster complaining about WCS, he didn't have any I'll bet any money. He simply used his speed to get out of range of your scramblers. Not exactly difficult tbh when you are moving around 3km/s. -- [20:40:12] High Sierra > its like that moment after sex when you arent sure if your date is going to moo or baa
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.20 00:44:00 - [58] THE TYPHOON IS UBER!!!111 NERF!!!111 SOLO PVP SETUPZ: RAVEN/DRAKE
king jks	Posted - 2006.12.20 00:59:00 - [59] I am VEHEMENTLY opposed to the thought of nanophoons and nanodomis, because it is something against the rules in my opinion. I'm surprised it hasn't been nerfed yet. I think going above 5 km/s is something that should be reserved for interceptors only, when you take a battleship with the ability to fit battleship sized weapons and get it going 7 km/s, there is a problem and something is broken. How would you like it if a taranis was orbiting you with ogre II's, heavy nos, and neutron cannon II's? Completely unbalanced, in the last few weeks I've been killed by pretty much nothing but nano battleships. The thing is there is no way of fighting back, they nos your tank, orbit at 26km going 7 km/s, there is no fighting back. I would prefer a fight where I don't go down like a flopping carp out of water, they seriously, SERIOUSLY **** me off. By the way I have no problem with battleships going above 1 km/s, hell I realize the typhoon is pretty much meant for speed, but 7 km/s? No, that is way out of line.
DarkElf Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.20 01:16:00 - [60] Originally by: king jks I am VEHEMENTLY opposed to the thought of nanophoons and nanodomis, because it is something against the rules in my opinion. I'm surprised it hasn't been nerfed yet. I think going above 5 km/s is something that should be reserved for interceptors only, when you take a battleship with the ability to fit battleship sized weapons and get it going 7 km/s, there is a problem and something is broken. How would you like it if a taranis was orbiting you with ogre II's, heavy nos, and neutron cannon II's? Completely unbalanced, in the last few weeks I've been killed by pretty much nothing but nano battleships. The thing is there is no way of fighting back, they nos your tank, orbit at 26km going 7 km/s, there is no fighting back. I would prefer a fight where I don't go down like a flopping carp out of water, they seriously, SERIOUSLY **** me off. By the way I have no problem with battleships going above 1 km/s, hell I realize the typhoon is pretty much meant for speed, but 7 km/s? No, that is way out of line. against the rules? wtf? if u can do it in eve then it's not against the rules unless it has been clarified as an exploit. and 7k m/s is an exageration i believe. never seen one above about 4k personally DE
king jks	Posted - 2006.12.20 01:27:00 - [61] I mean it's contradictory to what the game is supposed to sodifa;ei... bleh, what I'm trying to say is no battleship should ever go that fast, and I've seen a nanodomi get close to 7 km/s.
Areconus Caldari Cereal Killerz	Posted - 2006.12.20 01:50:00 - [62] Edited by: Areconus on 20/12/2006 01:53:46 Edited by: Areconus on 20/12/2006 01:52:22 Originally by: Farjung Originally by: DiuxDium Also, AFAIK, you can do the exact same thing on a Rokh. The phoon isn't exactly a nimble little flower, so the advantage it has over a "NanoRokh" is minimal. 5% ROF is the only real diffrence, and honestly, i'm not in tears over it. It's not exactly the only difference; Typhoon has base speed of 150 m/s compared to Rokh's 110 m/s, 100,000,000 kg mass instead of 120,000,000 km and two more lows. In other words, it has the potential to be a lot faster and a lot more agile. ...and? Its minmatar.
Kaar Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.20 02:38:00 - [63] Its the least used ship in the game, minmatar suck at pretty much everything other than speed. Stop whining and start thinking. --- ---
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.20 04:12:00 - [64] Edited by: Crellion on 20/12/2006 04:12:47 Originally by: Kaar Its the least used ship in the game, minmatar suck at pretty much everything other than speed. Stop whining and start thinking. He 's just saying this cause he liek killz everything with his nanophoon and liek dies the moment he undocks in a Blasterthron... dont trust this man. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Thor Ba'aleron	Posted - 2006.12.20 07:12:00 - [65] I'll ignore those who want to discredit my post due to typos and try to clarify some points I made that people either don't see or would rather look past. 1) I could care less about idiots who fly so-called nanophoons without skill. No, this ship is not overpowered in a way where any idiot can fly one. In the hands of a skilled pilot, it is nigh unkillable. No ship will make you immune to death. What makes the Nanophoon unique is that it is the only battleship that has elusiveness previously only seen by interceptors. 2) Arguing that the Nanophoon has no tank is irrelevant. As pointed out above the Nanophoon has more in common with interceptors, interdictors, and vagabonds than it's battleship class counterparts. The nanophoon carries 5 heavy drones, 4 launchers, and can suck a cruiser's cap dry in seconds. None of the other ships with 4km/s+ speed potential can match this ship's firepower or durability. TO compare it's tank to another battleship is counterproductive. Comparing it to another ship with it's speed and maneuverability would be more appropriate. 3) Pointing out that dual MWD battleships were nerfed is more certianly relevant to this discussion. The same arguments were made in favor of dual-mwd ravens, and they were nerfed due to being overpowered and almost impossible to catch. This is called "refering to precident" for those of you who didn't get it. Dual MWD ravens mounted WCS, MWD, NOS, went 7km/s and fired torpedoes. Sounds comepletely irrelevant to me. Of course, they couldn't use 5 heavy drones and couldn't maintain speed for more than 30 seconds. Something has to be done about nosferatu anyway, and giving these an adjustment might help tone these ships down somewhat. Minmatar's advantage is indeed supposed to be speed, but allowing a ship to be 40 times faster than a normal battleship seems a bit excessive. Battleships faster than T2-fitted interceptors is probably a little much too, don't you think? Whoever designed the first nanophoon deserves all the fun he had in it. Congrats to him, he broke the typhoon. Those of you who copied his design? Tough cookies.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:20:00 - [66] If it goes anything slower, than the speed advantage means nothing or almost nothing. Minmatarships need to behave like ionterceptors or they simply !@#*!@##. If my nanophoon can go 400 ms while your domini goes 200.. that helps me absolutely NOTHING!!!!! Ravens with dual MWD were nerfed because they were nto supposed to behave like that, they are not matar ships, they are caldari. Supposed to be slow, shield tanked to hell. As already been stated there are simple counters to it. Huggin, celestis and its tech 2 versions (nanophoon cant orbit fast in a tight enoufh distance to not loose lock). Nos domini with heavy tank... another fast ship (vagabond, vagacane etc, that can move away from a nanophoon if needed). If the magathron and raven have a hard time with it, SO BE IT! A ship is not supposed to be good against everything. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:26:00 - [67] Almost forgot, a single APoc with short range weapons and a tracking computer can pulverize a nanophoon. Its shields wont resit even the first complete orbit. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:39:00 - [68] This is one silly thread. Typhoon is being flown the only way it can be flown without getting pulverized, and right away caldari/gallente starts crying about not being able to kill it. Priceless. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:41:00 - [69] Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 20/12/2006 09:43:53 Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 20/12/2006 09:41:21 Originally by: Kaar Its the least used ship in the game, minmatar suck at pretty much everything other than speed. Stop whining and start thinking. I will say that rigs, combat boosters and inertia stabilizers are a step in the wrong direction (but then, so are Huginns). We're rapidly going towards a balance of extremes, ie 56km 1% maxspeed webs (Interdiction Manuevers/doublefleeting Huginn) versus 14km/s Nanophoons (LG Snakes, 3x prop inj vent, CY-1, MY-2, Rapid Deplyoment). That is making things a little bit silly. To the OP of this thread however : You sir, are on drugs. WCS in Revelations on a Nanophoon are definitely not viable, and 5 bonusless heavies (300 unamazing, easy to shoot DPS) don't make a ship overpowered. Along with hairbrained dual-MWD Raven analogies and the likes. The problem with doublespeedmods back then was primarily that nothing could track a target moving at those speeds, pretty much like an Interceptor today - making missiles the only option whatsoever. Today, we've got a signature based tracking multiplier - which in turn results in Nanophoons being relatively easy to track (until we hit the issue of the 10km/s+ orbits with Kali, christ). Propulsion per se is an imbalanced mess, but the Nanophoon has very little or nothing to do with that and is definitely not deserving of any special balancing attention in that regard. It's a module, rig, booster, implant and counter-module issue - not one of shiphulls. Edit : Also, since the OP seems intent on spreading misinformation - the only Siege 'phoons with 4 nos run one fitting mod or another type of gimping (Core X), ie all aforementioned 'phoons are in actuality Cruise 'phoons (who still can't fit 4x Heavy Nos without fitting mods by a hair, but there is no real demand to).
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:45:00 - [70] Let me also say that since gallente feel its unbalanced when a minnie ship kills them up close (because they are supposed to be masters of close combat), when are minnie supposed to kill them without it being unbalanced? Sniping? You want an entire race to do sniping? The Rohk and Abaddon pretty much took sniping away from minmatar anyway. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:48:00 - [71] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane. A specialized small gang to kill a single ship? Name one ship, with any speedmod at all, that you can solo next to a gate. Please. (Don't try to be funny and say Freighters)
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.20 10:02:00 - [72] Edited by: DiuxDium on 20/12/2006 10:04:26 Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 20/12/2006 09:47:59 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane. A specialized small gang to kill a single ship? Name one ship, with any MWD at all, that you can solo next to a gate. Please. (Don't try to be funny and say Freighters) Can't fit a MWD on a Freighter. w00t, score one for witty. Edit: This entire thread can just be summerized with "Wahh" and "L2PNub"
Thor Ba'aleron	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:02:00 - [73] Edited by: Thor Ba''aleron on 20/12/2006 11:12:13 Quote: To the OP of this thread however : You sir, are on drugs. WCS in Revelations on a Nanophoon are definitely not viable, and 5 bonusless heavies (300 unamazing, easy to shoot DPS) don't make a ship overpowered. The Typhoon has the same ROF bonus to it's launchers that the raven does. Quote: Propulsion per se is an imbalanced mess, but the Nanophoon has very little or nothing to do with that and is definitely not deserving of any special balancing attention in that regard. It's a module, rig, booster, implant and counter-module issue - not one of shiphulls. Well isn't that the point? I don't remember claiming that the typhoon itself was a problem, only the excessive speed that this ship is able to attain. This is due mainly due to the new effect that Inertial Stabilizers have on ships, and the way m/s bonuses are multiplied on multiple nanofibers, and certianly has nothing to do with the hull itself. The Typhoon was formerly used as a heck of a tanking battleship, one which unfortunately suffered from mixed weapon bonuses, something a Caldari pilot would know quite a bit about (see the Moa for a prime example). Additionally, the absolutely broken Nosferatu module has all but removed active tanking defenses from viable PvP use, and with the Nos-Domi, the Nanophoon design illustrates this to good effect. You are correct, the modules are what needs attention, not the hull itself. Kind of like when they nerfed dual MWD right?
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:15:00 - [74] Originally by: Jim McGregor Let me also say that since gallente feel its unbalanced when a minnie ship kills them up close (because they are supposed to be masters of close combat), when are minnie supposed to kill them without it being unbalanced? Sniping? You want an entire race to do sniping? The Rohk and Abaddon pretty much took sniping away from minmatar anyway. HAHA good point. I think I should try and encourage my whole corp to get fleet fitted sniping phoons.
Kindakrof Caldari Cruor Frater Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:26:00 - [75] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Train for a huggin? My friend was testing out his nanophoon on my huginn. He went to 78 km and approached me full speed. I hit my 3 90% webs as soon as he was within 36km range. He bumped me and ended 5 k away from me, then stopped at an amazing 2.7 m/s oh and he raped my huginn --- --- ---
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Kindakrof Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Train for a huggin? My friend was testing out his nanophoon on my huginn. He went to 78 km and approached me full speed. I hit my 3 90% webs as soon as he was within 36km range. He bumped me and ended 5 k away from me, then stopped at an amazing 2.7 m/s oh and he raped my huginn of course you should not use ONLY a huggin against a Battleship! But as soon as he stops any other Battleships will pulverize it. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
mr passie Minmatar Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:45:00 - [77] yarr I remember a nanophoon dying to my jaguar and a brutix, it wasn't fitted top of the line, but it was rather easy. Even managed to get a scorp into 1/2 armor before we had to warp out (after the phoon was dead). movie coming soon I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic. I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them!
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane. A specialized small gang to kill a single ship? a single ship, that costs past 1bil together with implants and faction fitting; yes. Next you whine cause you cant kill a carrier with a solo-raven?
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:48:00 - [79] Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/12/2006 11:49:25 I really dont like the concept of BS hanging around at 5000 m/s ... is the same like to watch in TV a F1 Speed Boat Grand Prix and someone in the starting grid is alligning with a WW II Battleship ... ... and the worst part is that the BS actually wons the race ...
Zanarkand Gallente Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:50:00 - [80] TBH there is only one thing wrong -> you can log out from bubbles and save your pod. >_> Makes it semi-risk free to use snake implants.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:51:00 - [81] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/12/2006 11:49:25 I really dont like the concept of BS hanging around at 5000 m/s ... is the same like to watch in TV a F1 Speed Boat Grand Prix and someone in the starting grid is alligning with a WW II Battleship ... ... and the worst part is that the BS actually wons the race ... And I dont like Ravens with crystal implants tanking 4 battleships, but what do you do... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
mr passie Minmatar Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:59:00 - [82] Edited by: mr passie on 20/12/2006 12:01:54 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/12/2006 11:49:25 I really dont like the concept of BS hanging around at 5000 m/s ... is the same like to watch in TV a F1 Speed Boat Grand Prix and someone in the starting grid is alligning with a WW II Battleship ... ... and the worst part is that the BS actually wons the race ... And I dont like Ravens with crystal implants tanking 4 battleships, but what do you do... whine on the forums like the op I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic. I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.20 12:09:00 - [83] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/12/2006 11:49:25 I really dont like the concept of BS hanging around at 5000 m/s ... is the same like to watch in TV a F1 Speed Boat Grand Prix and someone in the starting grid is alligning with a WW II Battleship ... ... and the worst part is that the BS actually wons the race ... I don't like the concept of a Battleship being calles BS.. sicne its proper denomination is BB. I dont like idea of battleships using drones or anything other than huge guns. I dont like the idea of dozen of small ships being capable of even hurting a Batteship.. but what someoene likes.. do not matter. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 12:27:00 - [84] Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron Edited by: Thor Ba''aleron on 20/12/2006 11:12:13 Quote: To the OP of this thread however : You sir, are on drugs. WCS in Revelations on a Nanophoon are definitely not viable, and 5 bonusless heavies (300 unamazing, easy to shoot DPS) don't make a ship overpowered. The Typhoon has the same ROF bonus to it's launchers that the raven does. I was replying to the apparent fixation about the amazing 5 heavy drones - pointing out that unbonused heavies are both impractical outside of pooing on NPCers, due to being slow and unscoopable in combat and non-spectacular in damage. If you want to go down the Torpedo route though, the Raven with 3x BCS II without implants should max out somewhere around ~630 DPS. That's slightly above 400 for a 3 BCS II Typhoon with max skills and Torpedos. That's about an unimpressive 240 with no BCS. Fantastic, I know. Quote: Quote: Propulsion per se is an imbalanced mess, but the Nanophoon has very little or nothing to do with that and is definitely not deserving of any special balancing attention in that regard. It's a module, rig, booster, implant and counter-module issue - not one of shiphulls. Well isn't that the point? I don't remember claiming that the typhoon itself was a problem, only the excessive speed that this ship is able to attain. The Typhoon, and it's traits, are not a cause for concern. The overall propulsion changes are, increasing aforementioned speedgap. If you haven't caught on yet, the Typhoon is far from the top of the speed chain. Quote: and the way m/s bonuses are multiplied on multiple nanofibers, and certianly has nothing to do with the hull itself. That way is known as the highly complex operation we shall dub "NOT". Nanofibers are additive. Quote: Additionally, the absolutely broken Nosferatu module has all but removed active tanking defenses from viable PvP use, and with the Nos-Domi, the Nanophoon design illustrates this to good effect. Nos is fine, outside of SiSi. Get a grip please. Quote: You are correct, the modules are what needs attention, not the hull itself. Kind of like when they nerfed dual MWD right? Not quite, because it's not that stuff is going too fast that's of concern. It's that both extremes are so far from eachother - both the module and countermodule side of things, and more importantly in the case of speed modules too many relative increases serving to amplify the gap between slow and fast (inertial stabilizers being the prime culprit). To put it quite simply, going 2.5km/s is perfectly useless for anything except reaching gates for example - it's not fast enough to avoid missile damage, it's not fast enough to get out of a Huginn or Rapiers range before it locks and deeceleration kicks in. It's not fast enough to do a whole lot with Interceptors either. There's even more reasons why speeds that high are essential for any speed-related role, like gun-ranges (20-60km on shortrange guns, up to 250km on longrange). Crossing such oversized ranges at anything but 10km/s+ is nonsensical to say the least, as the aggressor can simply align before anyone reaches him.
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.20 12:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/12/2006 11:49:25 I really dont like the concept of BS hanging around at 5000 m/s ... is the same like to watch in TV a F1 Speed Boat Grand Prix and someone in the starting grid is alligning with a WW II Battleship ... ... and the worst part is that the BS actually wons the race ... And I dont like Ravens with crystal implants tanking 4 battleships, but what do you do... Probably the same that you do... arrange 5 battleships, and see the Raven burn
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2006.12.20 12:35:00 - [86] Originally by: mr passie whine on the forums like the op LOL, are you really advising Jim to whine on the forums? That's like telling your granny to suck eggs m8, he's a grand-masta-whina
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:42:00 - [87] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 20/12/2006 13:45:44 Originally by: Yarek Balear Originally by: mr passie whine on the forums like the op LOL, are you really advising Jim to whine on the forums? That's like telling your granny to suck eggs m8, he's a grand-masta-whina Not anymore actually. I used to be, but ive given up. This channel is such a flame pit anyway... id rather run naked through alaska than post about game balance here again. I still post replies sometimes, but havent created a new thread about game balancing for a good while now. And I wont. These days im sitting in my rocking chair, smoking a cigarr and reading/posting in General Discussion. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:33:00 - [88] Why should minmatar have good ships? They're supposed to be the underdogs. Plz nerf thx. Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:44:00 - [89] Originally by: Breed Love Why should minmatar have good ships? They're supposed to be the underdogs. Plz nerf thx. meh, you can get over 1K dps with the phoon, without going 5k/s... TAKE AWAY THE SPEED PLZKTHx ------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:18:00 - [90] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/12/2006 11:49:25 I really dont like the concept of BS hanging around at 5000 m/s ... is the same like to watch in TV a F1 Speed Boat Grand Prix and someone in the starting grid is alligning with a WW II Battleship ... ... and the worst part is that the BS actually wons the race ... And I dont like Ravens with crystal implants tanking 4 battleships, but what do you do... Use a nanophoon to suck it dry (byebye, active tank bonus) and orbit fast enough so it can't be torpedoed. Duh. =P ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Phonix Fate.	Posted - 2006.12.20 20:43:00 - [91] You need to quite crying. They are easy to kill, you just have to be smart about it. If you cannot kill a nanophoon u shouldnt be playing the game. Solo 1v1? Yes there impossible to kill pretty much. Same with all ships with speed and something inbetween there ears.. QQ more. CEO of Fate
Jimmycs83 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.12.20 21:48:00 - [92] Originally by: Phonix You need to quite crying. They are easy to kill, you just have to be smart about it. If you cannot kill a nanophoon u shouldnt be playing the game. Solo 1v1? Yes there impossible to kill pretty much. Same with all ships with speed and something inbetween there ears.. QQ more. so theyre impossible to beat solo and theyre not overpowered? Really its not just the phoon its the tactic ... nano-domis nano-curses etc etc are all just as bad. CCP needs to introduce a heavy stacking penalty that should apply to all speed mods and rigs - because you wont need expensive implants anymore to make this tactic effective when you can acheieve inty speed with just a standard T2/best named fittings, some cheap hardwiring implants and some speed rigs.
Phonix Fate.	Posted - 2006.12.20 21:59:00 - [93] Vagabond,Huggin,Rapier, and any ship that can be piloted correctly cannot be killed 1v1. Its about the a tatic. When you take speed as your tank you are just a a glass cannon. There are overpowered ships in everyone 1v1 scenrio's so you cannot say the phoon is overpowered when there are ways to kill it. Ofcourse im not gonna list ways to kill them. But and can be done with ease. If you wanna talk about overpowered ships. Take a look at the drake for example. What chance does any other BC have to take that ship 1v1 almost none. I could go on for day's. Figure out how to kill them and quit QQ'in CEO of Fate
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.20 22:02:00 - [94] Nanophoons are awesome, but they are also very easy to counter. Webdrones will force them to break orbit or get webbed. Large Blasters, ACs, Pulses, and all medium guns will actually track nanophoons due to having a sig the size of a dread. Precision cruise missiles and heavies hurt! Gallente and Minmatar recons are bad for your nanophoon's health. Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.20 22:57:00 - [95] Just dispense enough non-missile damage to it and it'll crumble really fast. You may have to chase the damn thing a bit but in the end it's not hard plus it's actually entertaining. ----- You are #27 in queue to see this signature.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.20 23:12:00 - [96] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Hug and a Lach. BS support. Job well done. Lanfear's Bane. A specialized small gang to kill a single ship? a single ship, that costs past 1bil together with implants and faction fitting; yes. Next you whine cause you cant kill a carrier with a solo-raven? No, but I'm sure you'll complain if you need 4-5 ships to kill a Raven that has a crystal implant set. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.20 23:17:00 - [97] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/12/2006 11:49:25 I really dont like the concept of BS hanging around at 5000 m/s ... is the same like to watch in TV a F1 Speed Boat Grand Prix and someone in the starting grid is alligning with a WW II Battleship ... ... and the worst part is that the BS actually wons the race ... And I dont like Ravens with crystal implants tanking 4 battleships, but what do you do... Train skills? Either the 4 BS pilots do absurdly weak DPS, don't have any NOS at all, or the Raven is running an utterly insane faction/officer tank that never runs out of cap, and likely cost several times more than a simple nanophoon setup. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.12.21 00:14:00 - [98] the simple nanophoon setup don't go at 7k/s and ecm ships or heavy nos/tank or huge passive tank ones can be as unkillable as the nanophoon in 1vs1 against the "average BS" Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".

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