I'm glad you're optimistic, Black Pedro, I'm sure not. Maybe they'll tone this down a little and it'll only be three times as much structure grinding as large towers are now, which is still far too much. Everyone hates structure grinding, let's give them entosis! Oh actually everyone loved structure grinding, let's give them five times as much! An XL citadel has more HP than an iHub used to! You can't seriously argue in favour of a ridiculous HP wall like that.

Sure, let's balance a mechanic that is suppose to be accessible to the all the player base around a near max skilled character flying an expensive pirate battleship.

CCP's own numbers from the devblog say up to 225 players will be needed in battleships so I am perfectly fine with my characterization of 100-200 players to meet the 30 minute target.

But even asking a small WH corp or highsec group to field 40 max-DPS faction/pirate battleships to even attempt to attack them in the time proposed by the design is way too much. Also, don't forget these are the minimum requirements - the citadel is suppose to fight back.

And now we know you are just trolling in order to get CCP to nerf these into uselessness.

Secondly, for now we aren't even sure that an XL in HS will be useful. Since is only advantage on L size is the ability to dock MS and Titan, useless in HS.

Third, use an XL as private market hub in HS will need hundreds of client to be viable.
An XL Citadel in HS will not be protect by 10 players but by hundreds and come to defend it for 10 players will just be boring.

Requiring the defenders to turn up to at least one of the timers isn't rendering them useless. You are not entitled to structures which are such a chore to destroy that nobody will even attempt it no matter how certain they are that you won't undock.

I repeat my self but you still ignore that:

Again, read the numbers I've posted. Black Pedro thinks that these are unreasonable numbers and that no group in HS or a low end WH (Note that in a low end WH you have to build the freighter and XL Citadel in the WH first also) can possibly muster 15 people for 2 hours to reinforce an XL Citadel.
So is demanding that their EHP be massively dropped.

What happens if their EHP is dropped is that it becomes childs play to reinforce one even if defenders are present, and then they become giant loot Pinata's. Since just taking the Citadel, if it costs 10 bil to build and fit an XL Citadel, they will be dropping 5 billion in loot even before we get onto any active jobs since they drop their fittings and build minerals.
At which point they become useless because they cost so much and are so easy to destroy for the loot.

i think you got it the wrong way pedro:
it's not that they want to take max 30 min, they want it to take at least 30 mins, so the big coalitions can't just rage reinforce one in under 5 minutes
the old structure grinding is dead with the introduction of magic flashlights, this is a new thing, and since CCP want more small alliances out here, putting a minimum time req it's the logical step to do, otherwise noone(except the big blocks) will use theyr new structure stuff, or not everything bigger than the M one

once again, you keep comparing XL citadels with poses which is a mistake, one xl will cost about 50x+ large faction fitted poses; you also lack the basic knowledge about poses, but still insist on arguing about the stuff you don't exacttly know : for example, do you have any idea how long it's taking today to reinforce a full ecm/hard faction fitted large pos with "your 20 man bs gang"?
i'll give you a hint, they need to start early or the down time will come before they finish
so, you want a structure that costs at least 50 times as a large pos to die easyer than a large pos? who do you think will put one up?
like i told you before, an XL citadel is a "titan" killmail just sitting there; i don't know what game are you playing, but in my game, 0.0 alliances will do allot of effort to kill a titan: metagaming, spys, bribes , hours and hours of waiting in fleet for a trap to work, weeks and even months of camping in some cases, all of that for a possible titan kill. you telling how they won't come to high sec for a certain "titan" kill because "effort", it's just silly

Lady Rift, right i mis that.

In this case i don't even see an utility for Citadel in HS.

Edit : Read the "Shake my Citadel" devblog. the market and office hub become the citadel.

And this stay true :
"Secondly, for now we aren't even sure that an XL in HS will be useful. Since is only advantage on L size is the ability to dock MS and Titan, useless in HS.

Third, use an XL as private market hub in HS will need hundreds of client to be viable.
An XL Citadel in HS will not be protect by 10 players but by hundreds and come to defend it for 10 players will just be boring."

No, we are arguing it because your numbers are WRONG.
You are blathering on about 100 man BS gangs needed when you can actually reinforce an XL Citadel with 30 BS in 30 minutes.
Or 15 in one hour.
If you use the actual battleships that people ALREADY USE in highsec.

I used T1 Battleships/ABC with T2 fittings and no implants specifically to make the point that the barrier of entry to be able to affect XL Citadels is low low LOW! And my numbers are still less than half this 100-200 BS you keep inventing from thin air.
Really citadels are vastly too easy to reinforce as they already stand, and we were complaining when a single player could entosis them as well as being too easy.

As for why we are ignoring your 'quotes', is because you are massively misquoting by selectively quoting only a tiny portion of the blog in a deliberately out of context situation. If he wants to come here and also say that the maximum time that it should ever take is also 30 minutes, then he can come here and say so, and then we will all laugh our heads off at him for being stupid.

Yes and I will tell him that I will do what I do currently with a POS, online it run some refining and then take it down again, nice gameplay that...

You did read you won't be able to do that anymore with Citadels right? They take 24 hours to put up, start in hull right when that wardec comes in and 24 hours to take down

I thought it was a normal unanchor time but a 24 hr cooldown period before you can unanchor?

Once the unanchoring process has started, the structure will become invulnerable for a specific amount of time
Once the invulnerability timers runs out, the structure will be vulnerable for damage yet again, with having a repair process identical of whatGÇÖs been mentioned above. This time however, shields, armor and hulls will be fully available

So you become vulnerable for a significant period then the structure finally unanchors.

For anchoring:

The structure goes into a 24 hour invulnerability timer. No damage can be done during that time and the owner cannot cancel this action once it has been confirmed
The structure will come out of the invulnerability timer with only its hull layer active and vulnerable to attack (enters the vulnerability states above).
As usual, any damage done to the structure while it is vulnerable will cause the repair time to start. Please note however that in this case the structure will only have hull layer available GÇô it is not a fully operational battle station yet, and as such is even more susceptible to damage than usual. Which means if attackers can take it to 0 hit points it will be destroyed on the spot, there will be no further invulnerability phase.

For unanchoring:

Unanchoring may only be started if the structure has full shields and is not within a repair timer. This is to prevent some early bail-out should it be attacked
Once the unanchoring process has started, the structure will become invulnerable for a specific amount of time
Once the invulnerability timers runs out, the structure will be vulnerable for damage yet again, with having a repair process identical of whatGÇÖs been mentioned above. This time however, shields, armor and hulls will be fully available

OK, so for anchoring it takes a full repair timer to become fully operational.

For unanchoring I thought the 24 hrs was before you could unanchor to guarantee the structure would still be there when a wardec kicks in. what happens after the unanchor is still not clear to me, is it the repair cycle before you can scoop?

It sounds like 'press unanchor' Wait X hours while it is invulnerable. Wait Y hours while it is vulnerable, then scoop.
Where X + Y > 24.

But it's unclear to me also, that's just my best read.

Yes and I will tell him that I will do what I do currently with a POS, online it run some refining and then take it down again, nice gameplay that...

Do you plan to lose the expensive rigs every time? Without them the refining will not be too efficient.

Do you plan to lose the expensive rigs every time? Without them the refining will not be too efficient.

Again, read the numbers I've posted. Black Pedro thinks that these are unreasonable numbers and that no group in HS or a low end WH (Note that in a low end WH you have to build the freighter and XL Citadel in the WH first also) can possibly muster 15 people for 2 hours to reinforce an XL Citadel.
So is demanding that their EHP be massively dropped.

What happens if their EHP is dropped is that it becomes childs play to reinforce one even if defenders are present, and then they become giant loot Pinata's. Since just taking the Citadel, if it costs 10 bil to build and fit an XL Citadel, they will be dropping 5 billion in loot even before we get onto any active jobs since they drop their fittings and build minerals.
At which point they become useless because they cost so much and are so easy to destroy for the loot.

do it 3 times over the course of a week. and stop speculating on build cost and what it will drop. why use rigs on WH one? its just a parking garage that doesn't take fuel.

Read the Dev Blog, they will drop fittings and mineral value relative to their build cost. And XL Citadels have been said to cost as much or more overall than outposts.
So it's not 'just a parking garage'
It's a mega expensive loot pi+¦ata.

Part of the point is that currently people do not risk assets in a POS despite theoretical 'risk' to them.