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T2 Prices......CCP, come on.

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Byzan Zwyth Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.20 02:05:00 - [31] I think the "2t lottery" system is a complete joke and utterly stupid. Anyone with a good T2 BPO has a licence to print ISK. The huge prices on t2 items are not because they are harder to produce but because the BPO owners want lots of isk for doing pretty much nothing - and who can blaim them? Make T2 items harder to produce (more materials and longer production and make the BPO's a lot easier to get. A LOT! ---------------------- I fly Amarr and Gallente ships Amarr because they peow peow - and look cool... Gallente because they are effective
Father Weebles Repo Industries	Posted - 2006.12.20 02:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Kehmor I think ferraris should be reduced in price too so that everyone can drive one. I mean getting my driving liscence was so pointless because I can't afford one. theres ferrai equivalants in eve, called faction "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.12.20 02:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Areconus Originally by: Berrik Radhok Well, you see, the reason prices are so high is becSQUAUK SQUAUK SQUAUK SQUAUK SQUAUK SQUAUK SQUAUK don't care cry more And here we have a fine example of the typical goon response. and what is worse than a typical goon response? Originally by: Kehmor I think ferraris should be reduced in price too so that everyone can drive one. I mean getting my driving liscence was so pointless because I can't afford one. a visit from Mr. BadRealLifeAnalogy Man yeah yeah, we know you dont want to miss out on your billions and billions and multiple 100's of % profit. Too bad its at the cost of everyone elses game quality. We have to work harder for same T2 mods because we didn't get lucky. Your really not making your case any stronger w/ retarded replys. But then again, the 'case' that your profits are reasonable and justified and that ppl wanting game reform are just poor and crying and using T2 guns on your ship is somehow the equivelent of driving a ferrari in RL... isn't really a logical argument either. so, until T2 producers/advocates can somehow justify current system, how they deserve SO MUCH for their lucky draw and how they should dictate market price by whatever they can get away with..... FLAME ON!
Darth Bob Dark Excession	Posted - 2006.12.20 03:19:00 - [34] Originally by: Father Weebles Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn CCP does not set market prices. Players do. Stop paying the price, and the price will come down. you dont need to use t2 you know...its only a small percentage difference with the same t1 ammo. bull**** i could use all tech1 stuff yet all tech2 equipment keeps rising...its useless you could also choose not to vote in your country's elections, it won't make a difference in the outcome. As long as we can keep dumb people thinking this way everything will be alright
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.20 03:34:00 - [35] Edited by: FFGR on 20/12/2006 03:34:51 If there is 1 fact, one TRUE fact is that people will never stop moaning and whining. Even if you get all t2 prices to fall on production cost people will keep on whining. Why ? Because a "standard" t2 item has a production price of multible (even up to 10x) times the cost of the t1 product for just a 2-10% more efficiency than the t1 named product (ships are the only ones that get more efficiency, aswell as some other T2 products). And remember this, even after the prices drop to production cost, people will start moaning about something else, in particular how unfair it is that Faction and Officer items are so rare and expensive and demand that the drops increase so everyone can afford them. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.20 04:40:00 - [36] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Give time for the new T2 BPOs to be fully seeded and find their way into the right hands. Yes because people who get their hands on a money printer are more than happy to destroy their ability to never have to worry about ISK again... Seeding more BPOs isn't going to magically fix things. There will be some undercutting, but people expecting price crashes overnight are expecting a lot. There's always the chance it could happen, but don't count on it. The only time prices come crashing down is if the BPO is endless, like with protocloaks now. I'm actually tempted to use Stealth Bombers since cloaks are so damn pricy (sadly bombers are extremely niche), but If they seed 30 HML II and 425mm II BPOs, unless one of those new BPO holders is crazy, you're going to see alot of HMLs for 13.9 13.98 and 13.97mil each. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
The Praetor RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.20 04:45:00 - [37] You can either man up and pay up for T2 gear... OR You can fly with lots and lots of other cheap friends No modules (with the possible exception of a Cloaking Device) will save you from the massive gang gank.
Linavin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.20 05:33:00 - [38] Heavy Launcher IIs are 14 mil each!? Im glad I trained turrets, time to go kill some drakes. ---
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.20 05:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Helen Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Give time for the new T2 BPOs to be fully seeded and find their way into the right hands. Yes our hands. Originally by: Crumplecorn Wow, CCP make a change that eliminates whines and there are whines about the lack of whines.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.20 06:57:00 - [40] Solution: Earn, buy and train the research skills. Work your way up in the research corps. Hire agents. Alternately: Buy the BPO for the modules you're interested in. If your offer's good enough you might get a positive answer or two. Hint: Most of the prices do not come from the manufacturers, but from people or groups buying the stuff en masse and reselling it at a 'decent' profit. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Terraform Gallente Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 07:46:00 - [41] Originally by: Kehmor I think ferraris should be reduced in price too so that everyone can drive one. I mean getting my driving liscence was so pointless because I can't afford one. This one takes the idiot-of-the-week award. T2 equipment are nowere near "ferrari-standard", if you want the actual ferrari's in this game, try with officer modules. T he T2 prices are indeed messed up right now, i believe in CCP to fix it, and if they don't... well, i guess it'll just mean more gankage, less strategy to ensure victory. I just hope the market levels itself soon.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.20 07:54:00 - [42] Edited by: Tachy on 20/12/2006 07:55:39 All ccp can do about it is to totally kill off even more parts of the T2 market. The market for T2 ammo is already mostly dead and there are quite a few modules nobody ever buys because they're just not worth equipping. Hehe I just claimed a scimitar BPO my agent offered me for giggles. Yes, I am a proud and much despised and flamed T2 ship manufacturer now, price gouger and winner of EVE Online. Some background info: In Metropolis there have been 12 of them sold over the course of the last 3 months. I will get the money for the research, frigate and cruiser construction skills back within the next two years - then I can start working on the materials I handed over to the agent. Edit: About Ferrarri: Those are built in limited numbers, kinda like the Cosmos modules you can build from BPC. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Kehmor I think ferraris should be reduced in price too so that everyone can drive one. I mean getting my driving liscence was so pointless because I can't afford one. Tech 2 aren't ferraris. And feel free to send me your tech 2 bpo if your next argument is: "tech 2 involves a lot of work"
Croglett	Posted - 2006.12.20 10:01:00 - [44] 1. Dont relate EvE to real life....real life has real risks of selling/manufacturing. 2. I will not train another race up, just because of the ****ing prices. 3. The lottery is there so you will still get a t1 market, as everyone will just get t2 BPOs and there will be little to none t1 sellers. The game, even though the BPOs are being reseeded, still needs more. A lot of the BPOs end up in alliance hands where they are built and sold internally, and people dont care when they sell a BPO to an alliance, because they end up with billions of isk which will last them ages in EvE, just for selling this t2 BPO. The t2 BPOs should be seeded, but not only the lottery, you should be able to earn them, through missions and exploration. The invention is rubbish atm, because it simply costs too much. But tbh, prices wont come down dramatically.
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.20 10:15:00 - [45] Prices won't come down cos people are greedy, but I'll be ok if I can buil my own guns without having to sell my second born to buy them, cos my first born went to the ship seller.
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2006.12.20 10:44:00 - [46] Edited by: Sylthi on 20/12/2006 10:44:38 This is something I am surprised no one has suggested before, at least where I have seen it at least, but how about T2 loot drops? Make them not nearly as common as T1 loot, but much MORE common than officer stuff. In this way the current (out of control) lottery system would not have to immediately be overhauled, but a limited number of T2 items would start coming into the market from sources OTHER than the monopoly builders. This would FORCE them to lower there prices through shear volume of competition. I really don't see a downside here.... I mean you already have officer stuff appearing in loot drops that in some cases is WAY better than T2 equipment, so what would be the problem with putting single instance T2 items in drops as well? This could even help level out some of the out of control T2 ship prices as well. (Like the Vagabond and Cerberus.) I mean if limited run faction ship BPCs can drop in loot, why not T2 ships too? Ok, I've opened myself up for it, so flame away and tell me how stupid my idea is and how it could never work. Cheers all! * *
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:46:00 - [47] Originally by: FFGR Edited by: FFGR on 20/12/2006 03:34:51 If there is 1 fact, one TRUE fact is that people will never stop moaning and whining...Even if you get all t2 prices to fall on production cost people will keep on whining. I don't generally buy T2 gear so don't really whine about the price...how about the fact that I signed up to play EVE because of its supposed highly-developed industrial and economic play, and find that because I didn't sign up two years ago, I am completely excluded from the most important part of the EVE economy? That is what I whine about, loudly and often. Originally by: Tachy Solution: Earn, buy and train the research skills. Work your way up in the research corps. Hire agents. Alternately: Buy the BPO for the modules you're interested in. If your offer's good enough you might get a positive answer or two. Thanks for the insightful suggestions! I've already got a few R&D agents in play and am training more. And In several years I should have enough ISK to buy some of the BPOs I want, although by then inflation will probably have pushed them out of reach again. Rather than your patronising and unhelpful suggestions, why don't you answer this--how does it help the game that as a new player I need to get extraordinarily lucky (win BPO) or move heaven and earth (buy BPO or data interface) to be able to produce a single T2 item? While I agree that T2 items should remain rare, demand for many items far outstrips supply, and I fail to see how it helps the game to completely exclude new (ie, < a year or so) players from even being able to enter the T2 arena, especially when T2 BPOs basically fall into the lap of the lottery winners? There are so many different and better ways to ensure T2 exclusivity while allowing dedicated industrialists to participate that it is not even funny--my cat could have designed a better than system than CCP has put in place!
Lorn Yeager Gallente Blessed Souls	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:58:00 - [48] Yes, T2 is expensive. Yes its a pain. But some stuff are just expensive. Like a Ferrari. Because only Ferraries are made by the Ferrari factories in italy. My oppinion: NO, its not bad for the game with high prices. No its not bad that some had BPO and some does not. No change in game mechanics are needed. Ofcourse I would like a T2 BPO too, but damn I would sell the product as expensive as possible. Why devalue T2 equipment? Why does it HAVE to be cheap? If you loose ships to often, fly T1 versions and get better using them. Thats also the key to succesfull flying a T2 fitted boat. Begin sig: //-> Its Aloha time! Lorn Yeager Blessed Souls
Lorn Yeager Gallente Blessed Souls	Posted - 2006.12.20 12:05:00 - [49] Edited by: Lorn Yeager on 20/12/2006 12:05:35 Argh ... dumm forums Begin sig: //-> Its Aloha time! Lorn Yeager Blessed Souls
Omega Bloodstone Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:08:00 - [50] It's like this. Yes Tech II mods/ships/ect are way over priced. Why? Because like God gave man free will like CCP gave consumers free will on the market. Let's say CCP re-seeded more bpos like they are going to. What will that man do when he sees that emails saying "you have been awarded a Vaga BPO". LOL...That man is going to sell that mofo for 225 mill because it actually does sell at that price :/. Does not matter if there are 2 BPO holders or 20. Why would they undercut their own possible profit. I mean yes, if I get a tech II bpo on my main or alt, I'll undercut every market grobler there is by 100 mill on ships, but not every man feels the same as I do and the likely hood of me getting one is very slim hence the lottery term. They are all going to want to keep the maximum profit up and likely not undercut the competition. Now if you look at the insurance payouts...based on the Tech I market cost vs insurance payout on ships it's clear the intentional market prices are there without CCP saying it openly. There is only one real resolution IMHO and thats to seed the BPOs for tech II on the market. Yes, that'll tick off the rediculous price gougers but will allow everyone the same fair advantage. If not my Vaga insurance payout needs to be boosted to about 150 mill lol, to support the market price right now. Hell, rumor has it tech III will be released, why not seed tech II bpo's on the market. Then these folks with a family that play wont have to invest a month grind into 1 ship. They still pay the same monthly fee for less time on the game. The tech II ships and mods are just funner. You cant say just fly tech I, you find yourself pwned in most cases and at an unfair advantage and also again the tech II are funner. Just my opinion.
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Let's say CCP re-seeded more bpos like they are going to. What will that man do when he sees that emails saying "you have been awarded a Vaga BPO". LOL...That man is going to sell that mofo for 225 mill because it actually does sell at that price :/. Does not matter if there are 2 BPO holders or 20. Why would they undercut their own possible profit...They are all going to want to keep the maximum profit up and likely not undercut the competition. Have you ever seen a supply/demand curve? Not to shock you or anything, but it does in fact matter whether there are 2 BPO holders or 20, especially with ever-increasing demand.
Omega Bloodstone Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:05:00 - [52] Originally by: Tanis Bastar Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Let's say CCP re-seeded more bpos like they are going to. What will that man do when he sees that emails saying "you have been awarded a Vaga BPO". LOL...That man is going to sell that mofo for 225 mill because it actually does sell at that price :/. Does not matter if there are 2 BPO holders or 20. Why would they undercut their own possible profit...They are all going to want to keep the maximum profit up and likely not undercut the competition. Have you ever seen a supply/demand curve? Not to shock you or anything, but it does in fact matter whether there are 2 BPO holders or 20, especially with ever-increasing demand. Sure, My real life job involves it alot, in the real world with real cash. But haven't you noticed that there are more than one BPO holder of the BPO types and seem to sublemenally have the respect to not undercut the other already to insure everyone's profit is huge that owns them. It's not like a real life market when everyone is competing, in Eve they are working together to insure it's not competition but more so everyones profit. So your saying that Eve gamers will...cut their possible profit and sell a Vaga at 150 mill just to lose the extra 75 mill they know they will get for the ship...hmmm
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Sure, My real life job involves it alot, in the real world with real cash. But haven't you noticed that there are more than one BPO holder of the BPO types and seem to sublemenally have the respect to not undercut the other already to insure everyone's profit is huge that owns them. It's not like a real life market when everyone is competing, in Eve they are working together to insure it's not competition but more so everyones profit. So your saying that Eve gamers will...cut their possible profit and sell a Vaga at 150 mill just to lose the extra 75 mill they know they will get for the ship...hmmm You have no clue dude, go kill yourself. Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
mjolnir feaw Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:26:00 - [54] Edited by: mjolnir feaw on 20/12/2006 14:28:33 T2 is supposed to be a Technology improvement, right? So either science/tech in eve universe is cristalized, rigid and unevolving, or what was a rare state-of-the-art incredible item two yars ago should be more and more common as time pass. T2 is not like a Ferrari, it's like the new dual-thing CPU. When it's first released it's shiny and pricey. Two years later it's common... Yes this mean T2 item could get down to T1 and new item arrive as T2, while it's actually T3. I don't believe in that option but maybe there's something to dig out of the dirt down that road... I like the idea of T2 BPC (1-run only I'd say) in loot btw. Well Imust say that at first glance I liked the idea of invention too... ----- " There's no brave in a 5-to-1 fight. Just 5 cowards and a fool. - Perhaps. But it worked didn't it?"
Omega Bloodstone Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Sure, My real life job involves it alot, in the real world with real cash. But haven't you noticed that there are more than one BPO holder of the BPO types and seem to sublemenally have the respect to not undercut the other already to insure everyone's profit is huge that owns them. It's not like a real life market when everyone is competing, in Eve they are working together to insure it's not competition but more so everyones profit. So your saying that Eve gamers will...cut their possible profit and sell a Vaga at 150 mill just to lose the extra 75 mill they know they will get for the ship...hmmm You have no clue dude, go kill yourself. Just being part of discussion man...throwing my opinion out there...your statement...irrelevent and a waste of forum space. Your either 6 years old or have alot of growing up to do m8. But hey, you tried your best to mock someone on the forum. Either way, staying on topic, I just don't see players cutting their own profit. If the re-seeding helps. I'll admit I'm wrong and be really happy about it. On this, I hope I'm wrong.
Kalyster Section XIII	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:23:00 - [56] The problem is not the prices, but their increase.
Maar T'Kmel Minmatar Universal Services And Commerce	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:50:00 - [57] But we have invention now. Can't you just buy the T1 BPO, make a BPC copy, invention that BPC then come out with T2 BPC? Takes a bit of work, but I'm sure your corp just like mine has a dedicated R&D guy who can keep the flow of T2 BPC's flowing, then send the BPC to the manufacturing guy to pump out the item.
Nemain Amarr Obsidian Asylum	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:03:00 - [58] Edited by: Nemain on 20/12/2006 16:04:42 While I too would like to pay a bit less for T2, I wonder how mny here complaining about the prices would charge the same if they got lucky in the re-seeding. I have no doubt that should any of the complainers get a HAC BPO or a mod BPO like cap recharger II or EANM II, they too will charge those same high prices. I know I would if I could be bothered to build the stuff, I had a rather profitable Assault frig bpo but gave it to a mate to use as getting the components was too much hassle. Personally I think he is entitled to the profits he makes from it as he puts the time and effort in that I couldn't be bothered to do. Just remember while an assault frig may cost about 5mill to make, you also have to take into account man hours needed to prepare for construction. So that mark up acts as an incentive to keep production going, and so in a way stopping prices increasing further due to reduced supply. This applies to most t2 bpo's in general. At the end of the day tho, it's gimps like you and me that keep t2 prices high, by acctually paying those prices for it. If noone bought them then prices would drop (not to mention production would drop), but thats not going to happen. Look at what happens to less popular or changed popularity bpo's they make alot less profit. the jag and wolf are a good example of this, pre boost the jag sold for a fair bit less than the wolf, post boost they switched places due to increased poularity of the jag. So unless CCP cap the prices artificially if we keep paying premium prices they will stay at premium prices.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:09:00 - [59] Originally by: Omega Bloodstone Sure, My real life job involves it alot, in the real world with real cash. But haven't you noticed that there are more than one BPO holder of the BPO types and seem to sublemenally have the respect to not undercut the other already to insure everyone's profit is huge that owns them. It's not like a real life market when everyone is competing, in Eve they are working together to insure it's not competition but more so everyones profit. So your saying that Eve gamers will...cut their possible profit and sell a Vaga at 150 mill just to lose the extra 75 mill they know they will get for the ship...hmmm actualy, its just like a lot of "real life markets". A few noticable areas being luxuary sports cars. Airplanes. Designer clothes. Theater/Event tickets in the t2 BPO market, every producer is trying to undercut other producers and every producer is producing at maximum possible amount. The "problem"(in that, it really isnt a problem, just the way things are) is that because producers are producing as fast as they can, there is a perfectly inelastic supply at the maximum suppliable. This means that the price of t2 items is determined only based on the demand. And demand is high because t2 items are very good. Especialy HACs. So, each producer prices his items at a price that will sell somewhere between when he makes the second one on average. Because the lack of a stockpile is what keeps his profits up high[if stockpiles are created they can be liquidated during demand increases, but since supply is perfectly inelastic, there is no need to stockpile for said demand increases and no way to tell when they will occur]. Basically, at the price high demand t2 items are sold at, they sell out before their production run repeats, just like a number of other luxuary markets we can examine today. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Zephyrlin Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:18:00 - [60] I haven't seen a single person address the biggest reason that you'll always pay the same price for T2 items, no matter how many more BPOs are seeded. Traders. What happens if I get a bpo and I start making T2 items and I place them on the market for 10% less than all the competition? Someone else buys them up, and reposts them at the same price as the competition, and they get the profit I would have gotten. CCP can't do anything to stop that. The same thing happens with named modules. Hell, I've done it. It's a fast and easy way to make ISK. So basically, once the prices for an item are set, don't expect them to change too much as long as there are people running around doing this. While it's not the entire problem, it's a significant part. ---------- And God said... "Let there be lasers, and let them go... PEW! PEW! ...."

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