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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.20 16:22:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Zephyrlin
I haven't seen a single person address the biggest reason that you'll always pay the same price for T2 items, no matter how many more BPOs are seeded.
Traders.
What happens if I get a bpo and I start making T2 items and I place them on the market for 10% less than all the competition? Someone else buys them up, and reposts them at the same price as the competition, and they get the profit I would have gotten.
CCP can't do anything to stop that. The same thing happens with named modules. Hell, I've done it. It's a fast and easy way to make ISK.
So basically, once the prices for an item are set, don't expect them to change too much as long as there are people running around doing this. While it's not the entire problem, it's a significant part.
Because undercutting by 10% is a stupid thing to do? Because if demand supports a higher price you should charge it?
When you stick something on the market at under market price, you are trading net returns for immediate returns. If you think that is a bad trade, then dont stick things on the market for 10% less than they are worth. If you are "trying to help out the little guy" then look up little guys and sell to them, becuase cost cutting when the market supports a higher price isnt going to help anything.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Oku Kee'lus
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Posted - 2006.12.20 16:22:00 -
[62]
Originally by: HankMurphy
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
And how many T2 items do you think will end up on the market if people don't know when they'll win that exact T2 BPC again?
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Kailiao
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2006.12.20 16:43:00 -
[63]
My problem is not with T2 mods, it is and allways be with HAC's.
Price to build 40-45 mill tops, even with inflated min costs
Price to buy 200-300 mill isk ..........
Where is the justice in a %500-%600 profit gain, lol
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Tanis Bastar
Caldari
Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.20 18:19:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Goumindong
The "problem"(in that, it really isnt a problem, just the way things are) is that because producers are producing as fast as they can, there is a perfectly inelastic supply at the maximum suppliable.
This means that the price of t2 items is determined only based on the demand.
I agree with you 100%. The question to me is whether the reseeding of the T2 BPOs (who knows how many?) will allow production to catch up with demand and thus stabilize prices. I would be very surprised to see any significant decrease in prices unless Invention becomes about 100x easier than it is now.
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Croglett
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Posted - 2006.12.20 18:55:00 -
[65]
Supply and demand is logical in EvE, but caused by CCPs 'lottery' system, and the fact the chances are....alliance will get around 1/3 of the BPOs, and make them for alliances.
I dont think I have seen anything drop in price yet regarding t2 equipment, not even things that are not on demand, they just keep rising and rising, sellers will always try to sell that little bit higher, but my problem is making isk in eve is tedious, missions are ok, but not much in the way of interesting loot.
I have to say most of the replies are constructive, but I also have to say I beleive from looking at your corp names, your industry based, and dont PVP.
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Pinpisa Jormao
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Posted - 2006.12.20 20:13:00 -
[66]
The fix to prices is amazingly simple:
For the items that are most increasing in price (425mm II, covert op cloak II etc, 1mn mwd II etc), simply a) seed more those bpos b) cut their blue print copying time so that it doesn't make any sense to not make and sell t2 blueprint copies. For example: 1 day to make 1 run t2 cruiser copy = now 1 hour. Producing one cruiser will still take 1 day.
Currently it is a losing proposition to make BPCs of t2 BPOs thus making it impossible for the t2 BPO owner to give someone else ability to produce them if he doesn't have the interest to produce.
Summary: Copying a piece of paper (BLUEPRINT) should take similar effort as to copy a file in the real world and then do some legal paper work to license it. Soon the BPO owner will have more BPCs than he can produce with and must either start creating ton of alts to do it or sell them. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.20 20:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Tanis Bastar
Originally by: Goumindong
The "problem"(in that, it really isnt a problem, just the way things are) is that because producers are producing as fast as they can, there is a perfectly inelastic supply at the maximum suppliable.
This means that the price of t2 items is determined only based on the demand.
I agree with you 100%. The question to me is whether the reseeding of the T2 BPOs (who knows how many?) will allow production to catch up with demand and thus stabilize prices. I would be very surprised to see any significant decrease in prices unless Invention becomes about 100x easier than it is now.
there will be price reductions, and they ought to be fairly strong.
If there is one thing that life in eve has tought me it is "in EvE, all demand is inelastic"
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:42:00 -
[68]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 20/12/2006 23:42:49
Originally by: Oku Kee'lus
Originally by: HankMurphy
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
And how many T2 items do you think will end up on the market if people don't know when they'll win that exact T2 BPC again?
you mean ppl wont sell what they have for fear they will never get it again? so, sit on it forever just incase they need the runs for something else?
I think your missing the point.
Your suggestion sounds like a personal problem for that particular producer. Like I said more lotteries more often, if he wants to sit on his, fine, there will be another getting a 10/20/50 run BPC that WILL sell..
...the whole point is not let the market be reduced to a select few ppl's control. Thus preventing the market from being affected by their personal whims.
I'd rather ppl sit on them to save their last few runs than just sit on them to raise prices.
shouldn't this need moved to gen disc. or features/ideas or something like that?....
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Norimar
Vortex.
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 10:26:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Pinpisa Jormao
The fix to prices is amazingly simple:
For the items that are most increasing in price (425mm II, covert op cloak II etc, 1mn mwd II etc), simply a) seed more those bpos b) cut their blue print copying time so that it doesn't make any sense to not make and sell t2 blueprint copies. For example: 1 day to make 1 run t2 cruiser copy = now 1 hour. Producing one cruiser will still take 1 day.
Currently it is a losing proposition to make BPCs of t2 BPOs thus making it impossible for the t2 BPO owner to give someone else ability to produce them if he doesn't have the interest to produce.
Summary: Copying a piece of paper (BLUEPRINT) should take similar effort as to copy a file in the real world and then do some legal paper work to license it. Soon the BPO owner will have more BPCs than he can produce with and must either start creating ton of alts to do it or sell them.
I'm not a T2 BPO holder or anthing and I don't agree that dumping more BPOs in the market will do anything significant for T2 prices (in the near future anyhow...) Though it could be feasible to decrese the copy time of some of these BPOs to make them more lucrative to also sell T2 BPCs. Yeah, maybe they won't be making 500 mil off of a single manufactured item (Hulk comes to mind) but their profit margins will still be big because the demand for them will be there...
CCP just needs to ease these ideas into the game... Every freakin MMO produced game (I've played) seems to make the mistake of doing too much too soon. If they just tweak things a little at a time, everything could fall into place rather nicely...
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:07:00 -
[70]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Edited by: HankMurphy on 20/12/2006 23:42:49
Originally by: Oku Kee'lus
Originally by: HankMurphy
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
And how many T2 items do you think will end up on the market if people don't know when they'll win that exact T2 BPC again?
you mean ppl wont sell what they have for fear they will never get it again? so, sit on it forever just incase they need the runs for something else?
I think your missing the point.
Your suggestion sounds like a personal problem for that particular producer. Like I said more lotteries more often, if he wants to sit on his, fine, there will be another getting a 10/20/50 run BPC that WILL sell..
...the whole point is not let the market be reduced to a select few ppl's control. Thus preventing the market from being affected by their personal whims.
I'd rather ppl sit on them to save their last few runs than just sit on them to raise prices.
shouldn't this need moved to gen disc. or features/ideas or something like that?....
This is going to be in bold because i realy hate saying it over and over again
No tech 2 producer is selling below maximum capacity, it is unprofitable for them to sell at anything but maxamimum capacity. The supply of tech 2 items is so small, and at maximum capacity so inelastic that a reduction in the production or the sale of tech two items will reduce the overall profits in terms of isk/time, and in terms of total isk generated(after overstock is sold)
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Tanis Bastar
Caldari
Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Goumindong
No tech 2 producer is selling below maximum capacity, it is unprofitable for them to sell at anything but maxamimum capacity. The supply of tech 2 items is so small, and at maximum capacity so inelastic that a reduction in the production or the sale of tech two items will reduce the overall profits in terms of isk/time, and in terms of total isk generated(after overstock is sold)
While I also believe this to be true, I think that the fact that some BPO holders apparently only sell to Alliance/Corp members means that many of these items are effectively off the public market. Spreading the BPOs around to new holders will hopefully put more in the hands of those willing to sell to the public.
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:45:00 -
[72]
For tech2, market prices are not indivciative of what alot of people using it pay for it.
As said, I bet half of the production doesn't even reach the market in the first place. With over half the demand there, that skewes things.
Next to that, what exactly is wrong with expensive tech2 again ? The best named guns used to cost up to 40 million isk back in 2003, comparable to current prices that'd be about 100m isk PER GUN.
Wghat you are buying now is the best stuff, at a reasonable price. You simply don't use it in pvp if you can't afford to.
Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh
Naz: John is a realist
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Znathsume
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kehmor
I think Ferrari's should be reduced in price too so that everyone can drive one. I mean getting my driving licence was so pointless because I can't afford one.
Another moron riding a sport car just after making licence , no thanks.
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Xantina
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:13:00 -
[74]
Monopolies, such as the t2 covops cloak, shouldn't exist in that form. At least there should be a chance to research the BPCs because at this time, putting an 80 million module on a 6 million eggshell is just nowhere realistic.
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Croglett
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Posted - 2006.12.21 12:20:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
For tech2, market prices are not indivciative of what alot of people using it pay for it.
As said, I bet half of the production doesn't even reach the market in the first place. With over half the demand there, that skewes things.
Next to that, what exactly is wrong with expensive tech2 again ? The best named guns used to cost up to 40 million isk back in 2003, comparable to current prices that'd be about 100m isk PER GUN.
Wghat you are buying now is the best stuff, at a reasonable price. You simply don't use it in pvp if you can't afford to.
Then alliances that can afford to PVP with t2 equipment, like you will win everytime.
Theres big difference with a t1 1400mm gun and a t2 1400mm, I wasnt so bothered with using t1 over t2 guns back before t2 ammo come out, but now if you can use it t2 certainly is a must.
I really dont get why people say things like, if you cant afford it dont do it, for instance a ferox with t1 equipment VS a ferox with t2 equipment, the t2 fitted will win easy, there isnt any skill or fun in it, t2 is that far ahead of t1.
And I reason I am complaining is that the inflation that has happened is rediculous, it isnt anything like 50% inflation, which I can cope with, its 500%+ on over half of t2 equipment and ships. Prices of one of my favourite ship, the huginn, has started to increase, not slowly though, I got my first for 45M then lost it two weeks later, second was 55M, now they are around 60M, and that was in the space of less than a month. I will stop using them when they go above 60M, because they die too easy.
T2 should be expensive, but theres a difference between expensive and outright silly.
I know CCP cannot force the players to reduce the prices, but they at least should offer better ways of staying self reliant, and more competitive market prices.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.21 13:18:00 -
[76]
Fun part:
That's got nothing to do with inflation.
It's a pure effect of resellers.
Nothing else.
Someone's going 'Look! A T2 ship, cheap!', buys all from the market and sells them at higher price.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Omega Bloodstone
Battlestars
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 13:50:00 -
[77]
Just cap the damn prices CCP. I mean, not wanting to make the T2 BPO holders ill and all but, why not. A cap can be placed to keep inflation from getting out of control. I'm not saying put a uber low cap, just a reasonable one. Like the Vaga for instance. Generally it sells for 225 mill  . It's a good ship but not really worth that. Mabye throw a cap on it for like 150 mill. Due to the cost and effort involved in the ship's production the BPO owner will still make a great profit. And due to the cap he will produce more ships to make up that profit loss from his usual 225 mill. But he will still be making a killing becuase the ship in no way cost 150 mill to produce. Not even close. My only issue with this idea is that we would never see the cost go down. I'm pretty certain we would always see the max cap price. But with the way T2 items are sold we would probably still be paying less, and getting more production of the mods/ships allowing more players to enjoy the luxury of these great T2 concepts.
Hopeing not to get forum reemed on this one...
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:13:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/12/2006 14:17:20
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/12/2006 14:16:28
Originally by: Croglett
Caracal (All based on cheapest market price in the forge);
5 X Heavy Missile Launcher II - 70M (14M each)
1 X Large Shield Extender II - 5.5M
2 X Sensor Booster II - 3.4M
2 X Invulnerability Field (Best Named - t2 back then was around 6M) - 1.2M (600K each)
1 X Ballistic Control System I - 60K
1 X Signal Amplifier II - 600k
Total : 85.96M (Including Caracal/ No Insurance)
Ok, let's see what a realistic setup looks like then:
caracal
5x t2 assault launcher (2m each ?)
1x best named large extender (1m)
2x sensor booster I (or named) (nothing)
2x invul named (1.2m)
1x BCU (60K)
1x bamed sig amp (50K ?)
total: < 12m isk and change
loss of usefullness compared to your maxed out t2 setup: near zilch.
smile on your face when the enemy caracal pilot dissapears to rat for two days after being killed: win
But i probably didn't factor in that this isn't about usefullness is it ? It's about you wanting to be able to fly the best you can fly skillwise at a price you can afford right ?
Well, though luck, I cant afford to fly the best i can fly all the time either, so I fit t2 where it counts, and fit named t1 where it doesn't hinder me, which typically means i'll be using t1 except for the guns and maybe a sensor booster or tracking comp on my BS, and t1 except for maybe an MWD and the guns on my dictor, for example.
Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh
Naz: John is a realist
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Omega Bloodstone
Battlestars
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:26:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/12/2006 14:17:20
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/12/2006 14:16:28
Originally by: Croglett
Caracal (All based on cheapest market price in the forge);
5 X Heavy Missile Launcher II - 70M (14M each)
1 X Large Shield Extender II - 5.5M
2 X Sensor Booster II - 3.4M
2 X Invulnerability Field (Best Named - t2 back then was around 6M) - 1.2M (600K each)
1 X Ballistic Control System I - 60K
1 X Signal Amplifier II - 600k
Total : 85.96M (Including Caracal/ No Insurance)
Ok, let's see what a realistic setup looks like then:
caracal
5x t2 assault launcher (2m each ?)
1x best named large extender (1m)
2x sensor booster I (or named) (nothing)
2x invul named (1.2m)
1x BCU (60K)
1x bamed sig amp (50K ?)
total: < 12m isk and change
loss of usefullness compared to your maxed out t2 setup: near zilch.
smile on your face when the enemy caracal pilot dissapears to rat for two days after being killed: win
But i probably didn't factor in that this isn't about usefullness is it ? It's about you wanting to be able to fly the best you can fly skillwise at a price you can afford right ?
Well, though luck, I cant afford to fly the best i can fly all the time either, so I fit t2 where it counts, and fit named t1 where it doesn't hinder me, which typically means i'll be using t1 except for the guns and maybe a sensor booster or tracking comp on my BS, and t1 except for maybe an MWD and the guns on my dictor, for example.
I agree with you totally as far as T1 ships are concerned. But my Sleipner will never have anything less then all T2, and the same goes for my Huginn, or my Vaga. The shear cost of the ship demands that I do my best to insure it's survival. Like I said, on T1 ships I cannot disagree, you are right to choose to fit where it counts, and I know your point is directed at T1. But when my HAC cost 225 mill, I'm damn sure fitting it like a champ.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:41:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 21/12/2006 14:41:02
I'd like to complain about the price of faction modules too. People with more isk have a totally unfair advantage over me.
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Velsharoon
Gallente
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:52:00 -
[81]
if you cant have fun playing eve with t1 your a prat
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Omega Bloodstone
Battlestars
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:14:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Velsharoon
if you cant have fun playing eve with t1 your a prat
Do you remeber that guy back in the day when you were in school(assuming your older like me), you know, the guy everyone bullied on. How fun was his day? He's the T1 guy. And maybe he can't cut the time to play and grind as alot of other eve players can. He has the same 15$ fee a month still. But the bullied T1 fellow always lost and eventually just sat there at PE or recess. He had no fun. His career at school sucked. Every time the bully (T2) guy like me and maybe you or 3/4's of BoB came along he lost.
T1 can be fun, but the option to also have fun with T2 should still lie there within. I have fun in T1 ships to, on suicide missions and what not. But somewhere down the line the little guys training for T2 want to use what they have invested their training to. The argument is not weather or not T1 is fun, it is trying to make T2 a little more accesable and valuable to the time invested in training. Why train what you can't afford to lose. This is pertaining to the little guy, with less time and isk, but still is paying and training. The only T1 ship I fly is a BS...why? Because I trained up the goods. But I have to bust my butt to insure I can continue to fly T2. Some folks don't have the time though.
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Atius Tirawa
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:28:00 -
[83]
Like I said,
seed them like any T1 BPO and let the moon-miners get rich. Thing is, we can all fight over resorces, we can all mine for minerals, but we can't all build T2 ships.
The market should be regulated by minerals, not by some T2 lottery system.
This has been said before, and CCP simply can't realize what a terrible mistake it was to have a lottery.
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Tanis Bastar
Caldari
Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:51:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
Like I said, seed them like any T1 BPO and let the moon-miners get rich. Thing is, we can all fight over resorces, we can all mine for minerals, but we can't all build T2 ships. The market should be regulated by minerals, not by some T2 lottery system.
Makes perfect sense. I just don't get why the current system was put in place in the first place, or why they haven't rectified the situation by now.
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Omega Bloodstone
Battlestars
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:58:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tanis Bastar
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
Like I said, seed them like any T1 BPO and let the moon-miners get rich. Thing is, we can all fight over resorces, we can all mine for minerals, but we can't all build T2 ships. The market should be regulated by minerals, not by some T2 lottery system.
Makes perfect sense. I just don't get why the current system was put in place in the first place, or why they haven't rectified the situation by now.
I can comment on why it might not be rectified. The system was already in place and the BPO owners were already awarded the BPO's. It's not justice really to take the BPO's away, but paying the rediculous cost is not either. Thats why I recommended limiting the max sellable price. I mean, convinient stores raised Gas prices here in the states at a time of tragedy and the Government shut that down and placed a cap on it. Hey guess what...we still have convinient stores.
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Vodka Neat
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:10:00 -
[86]
I think the real problem is that youÆre losing too many ships! If it is a one time cost and you have the best equipment then you should win and not have to worry about the cost. If on the other hand you buy the best and still get owned then I could see your concern, but would politely tell you that you must of done something wrong and therefore should have to pay the price (in this case an actual price of replacement). You can't have it both ways either T2 isn't a "I Win" button (which is what is true) and you could fit more reasonable equipment or it is and there is no reason for you to have to replace it.
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Tanis Bastar
Caldari
Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
I can comment on why it might not be rectified. The system was already in place and the BPO owners were already awarded the BPO's. It's not justice really to take the BPO's away...Thats why I recommended limiting the max sellable price....
Well, I've got to say that I think that capping the price would be even worse than the current system, but I understand your frustration. As for the current T2 BPO holders, unless something drastic is done these BPOs will only increase exponentially in value as more players joint the game and output cannot be increased with existing BPOs. Maybe the newly-reseeded BPOs are sufficient to allow supply to catch up with demand, maybe not, who knows?
Also, I believe that concerns about "fairness" toward current T2 BPOs are completely misplaced: either they have already reaped enormous and unjustified rewards from their lucky draw in the lottery, or they never will. And if you paid X billion for a T2 BPO rather than winning it in the lottery, that's the breaks--when you purchased it you should have been aware that T2 scarcity, like all aspects of EVE, is subject to change at any time, and you bought subject to that risk. Meanwhile, T2 BPO holders of less popular items are justifiably concerned about the re-seeding, because it is difficult for them to make any significant profit even before the re-seeding; after the re-seeding it might not even make sense for them to produce low-demand products.
Finally, even if the on-going reseeding of T2 BPOs "fixes" the current mismatch between supply and demand, the whole T2 model should be scrapped, because currently there is no point in trying to play EVE as an industrialist/researcher: Train up as many R&D alts as possible, cross fingers, wait for lottery--not really what I would call engaging game play. While I and many others had great hopes for Invention, it seems to be hopelessly convoluted and impossibly difficult, at least as currently implemented.
Sure would be nice if CCP gave some clues about whether they think that the current system (including Invention) is broken and their plan to fix things or their rationale for not doing so.
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insanebe
Caldari
soni Corp
Imperium Sonorumance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:40:00 -
[88]
the problem of tech 2 is gonna get really really bad in the next 6 months +...
..wgy ? you say
...because of the change in learnings skills new players will be skilling up faster than ever before and the result will be a MASSIVE increase in demand for tech 2 as all the new players will be wanting to use the "fabled tech 2" with their new skills
knowledge is power.... guard it well |
Riho
Red Wrath
Exquisite Malevolance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:16:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Dammar
Originally by: Dread Phantom
Originally by: Dammar
It's true. Greed is getting quite out of control. Anyone who says otherwise needs a beating IRL.
Advice to CCP: Keep seeding bpos.
Think before you post
I got better advice for you: don't ever post again.
i think that would apply on you more than him.... calm down and walk away... if u have issues dont bring em here.
and enyone saying that they need a beating irl for something in a computer game needs help
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Apollo Balthar
Minmatar
The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:28:00 -
[90]
People don't get it really. If T2 is getting so expensive it is unaffordable for most, chances are slim you will fight someone with a T2 kit on. On the other hand, if the prices drop, anyone will have a tech2 kit. In both scenario's the playingfield will be fairly even.
The lottery system is perfect, it actually mimics how it would be (and is, but RL comparisons ftl.) with cuthroat all free kapitalisme. One dude would get lucky and invent something (or steal an invention, or pay some guys to invent for him, or license it etc. etc.) and monopolise his position as much as possible(not only via the market, but also via politics to get and keep that monopoly, money buys everyhting, how do you think an alliance like BoB got such a nice BPO set? by whining on the forums they wanted them?).
Only thing I agree on is that the copytime for BPC's on tech2 should be somewhat lower, but not by a large margin.
In short, if you want T2, just pay the regular price, if you can't pay it, tough luck.
If you want to get involved in T2 production, join a corp that is interested in T2 production and work together to get a BPO.
It is perfectly possible to get a low end BPO with a couple of people if you really want that.
If you don't wanna be in a corp and play solo, again tough luck.
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WTS: tech2 clue |
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