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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40401
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Posted - 2015.10.01 22:54:03 -
[121] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:They say ganked retention is higher than not ganked, well that makes sense if somebody who would have left after three months never subs in the first place, but that only means they lost three months. I cannot see that as being a positive.
That cannot be inferred from the data that we as players have access to, however it can be easily reasoned that this scenario doesn't really apply.
The main data that CCP have provided to us is in two packets:
1. 80,000 new player (not alt) accounts in their first 15 days (old trial account time)
2. Subscribed accounts
From the first packet of data we know:
Highest chance of retention: players subject to non-consensual pvp (ganked)
Second highest chance of retention: players involved in consensual pvp (wardecs, FW, etc.)
Lowest chance of retention: players not involved in pvp (here pvp specifically referring to pew pew kind)
Clearly, all three groups have players that both stay with the game and that leave, it's just that those who get ganked in their initial steps into the game, have a higher rate of retention than those that don't.
There's no casuality in the data that we have seen, however ganking, especially of newer players seems to be based (like a lot of ganking outside the really hot systems) on being a target of opportunity. So the risk of a new player being ganked is almost equal for every new player that actively plays the game and takes part in the tutorial missions and career agents.
There doesn't appear to be anything special about the group of players that end up ganked, in comparison to those that otherwise play the game and are not ganked.
So the data almost normalises itself in terms of the behaviour and there's nothing to suggest that those that get ganked were already more likely to subscribe to the game before they were ganked.
It appears that ganking itself changes a players likelihood of subscribing and the result, when looked at by CCP, surprised even them, because it was the opposite of what many people assumed.
After that, the second lot of data (players who actually subscribe) then looks at what types of play those players get into and whether they then stick with the game or leave; and the trend is that those that have rich experiences and social interaction stay with the game longer than those that don't.
Markus Reese wrote:What does the spread of subs duration per 100 ganked look like vs 100 non ganked including trials?
There doesn't appear to be much relevance to that, at least in what CCP are interested in (ie. turning new players into long term lovers of the game).
From the data sets, it appears at the very least, that being ganked does not harm the chance that someone will subscribe (and actually increases the chance). After that, that initial experience isn't important anymore.
It's what players do, or what the game provides for them that determines whether they stay; irrespective of whether they subscribed having been ganked, involved in consensual pvp or not ganked at all.
CCP have used the term 'rich experience' as being their target to provide to newer players once they have subscribed. That includes things like getting them to join players corps, getting involved in fleet operations, using chat channels, getting into industry activities, trading on the market, etc. - all of the kinds of activities that involve interaction with others.
So those two things: ganked group vs non ganked group and sub duration doesn't appear to be that important. It seems to be more:
ganked = possibly more likely to subscribe initially
long term subscription = meaningful and rich experiences in the game
I think it was CCP Rise who once joked that the best thing CCP could do for retention was to arrange for every new player to be ganked (I might be ascribing that to the wrong dev and it was totally said off-hand as a joke).
Clearly, non-ganked people (myself included) subscribe to the game, so I don't think we should look too deeply into what it all means, other than the simple conclusion that ganking is not a net negative to player retention. That's an assumption a lot of people make, but never validate whether their assumption is true. CCP have tried to validate it and come to the conclusion that it's not true.
Marcus Reece wrote:Reason for that being is if ganking causes people to not even leave the trial stage, that lost revenue. Do these numbers exist anywhere? Does CCP look at the experiences of subbing trials and can they filter out alts?
Yes they filter out alts. They have stated that.
Exactly how, we don't know but guys like CCP Quant, the security team, etc. appear to be extremely smart and professional, so if CCP say that they are able to filter for individual players and not alt accounts, then I don't personally see a reason to challenge that statement.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Salvos Rhoska
1537
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:14:27 -
[122] - Quote
LICENCES ---- AVAILABLE NOW! ----(Click above) Introductory offer of only 9.99mil isk/per license!* DO NOT HESITATE! GET YOURS NOW WHILE SUPPLIES LAST! (* Instruction manual for use of product included FREE to all bulk orders above 100 units)
BUT WAIT! THAT IS NOT ALL! As a once in a lifetime offer, we proudly present: ---- THE UNIQUE "NEON EDITION" SPECIAL AGENT CERTIFICATE ----(Click above) For only the most discerning and elite agent of all to proudly display in their place of business; as their single highest accolade and proof of professionalism! AVAILABLE NOW TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER!* (* Frame sold separately.)
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Areen Sassel
66
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:43:41 -
[123] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:I didn't cry on the forums asking for anything in the vein of nerfing gankers, calling the people who ganked me that they have all the mental illnesses I can think of nor did I make a blog post about my loss that spans the great wall of china and I never did threaten them or their family with iRL violence(looking at you afk miners) because they ganked 1/3 of my net worth at the time.
Good for you; but there is a selection effect there. If you had left forever, we wouldn't be hearing from you now.
FTAOD, I am not advocating for further nerfs to highsec aggression. |
Agent Grzzly
New Order Logistics
CODE.
13
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Posted - 2015.10.02 14:36:26 -
[124] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: Let's cut down on the ganking so we can milk money from people who will be leaving soon because they don't care for EVE Online.
Is that more or less accurate?
PSA Ventures are Illegal in Highsec. High sec is player-owned space now. See www.MinerBumping.com
Kugutsumen.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
1613
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Posted - 2015.10.02 16:24:56 -
[125] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:LICENCES ---- AVAILABLE NOW! ----(Click above) Introductory offer of only 9.99mil isk/per license!* DO NOT HESITATE! GET YOURS NOW WHILE SUPPLIES LAST! (* Instruction manual for use of product included FREE to all bulk orders above 100 units)
BUT WAIT! THAT IS NOT ALL! As a once in a lifetime offer, we proudly present: ---- THE UNIQUE "NEON EDITION" SPECIAL AGENT CERTIFICATE ----(Click above) For only the most discerning and elite agent of all to proudly display in their place of business; as their single highest accolade and proof of professionalism! AVAILABLE NOW TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER!* (* Frame sold separately.)
Obvious RMT. Reported.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
12547
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 16:27:14 -
[126] - Quote
I'm more concerned about a dude screwing up his bathroom out of hate of an imaginary group than I will ever be of CODE...... |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1469
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:16:57 -
[127] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska, dude WTF? Have you lost your mind?
The Tears Must Flow
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
685
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Posted - 2015.10.02 22:18:40 -
[128] - Quote
Agent Grzzly wrote:Markus Reese wrote: Let's cut down on the ganking so we can milk money from people who will be leaving soon because they don't care for EVE Online.
Is that more or less accurate?
Actually... Yeah. Pretty good summary really. Keep ganking, but integrated. If it gains more than loses, good. Eve still has all the hihsec crime, but would be a playstyle instead of just casual activity. Win for all parties, no? Sides, those players quite probably will care about it more than the gankers if given the chance. Is why they get upset and all that.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Agent Grzzly
New Order Logistics
CODE.
15
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Posted - 2015.10.04 19:08:33 -
[129] - Quote
You must be trolling, sir.
PSA Ventures are Illegal in Highsec. High sec is player-owned space now. See www.MinerBumping.com
Kugutsumen.
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Thomas Gallant
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.10.05 07:03:44 -
[130] - Quote
I guess it shows how much CCP wants to support player organized... structuring? (perhaps not the right word, but players taking control of the game is the idea)
CCP likes it when the players drive the game, and while it may seem like a bias toward Code and their activities, I can just as easily see CCP getting a "miners against the CODE" bumper sticker or such if an organisation like that existed.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2015.10.05 07:57:57 -
[131] - Quote
I will say this for CODE. They know how to PR.
A signature :o
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Naburi NasNaburi
A Little Peculiar
borealis
372
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Posted - 2015.10.05 08:36:27 -
[132] - Quote
Great to see that other people LARP EVE aswell.. and again it was in Berlin *laughs*
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