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Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.11.26 02:28:00 -
[1]
Now that I own a Scorpion BS and have been playing with both the Scorpion and Raven on Chaos... I want to hear from Raven pilots as to why they chose the Raven over the Scorpion, if in fact they have chosen the Raven over the Scorpion.
For myself, I love the Scorpion's 8 medium slots - this means I can fit ample shield hardeners and afterburners or EW/ECM/ECCM but it seems to me the Raven with 2 extra Missile Launchers might not be as versitile as the Scorpion. What's YOUR take on this ?
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
Soren
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Posted - 2003.11.26 02:41:00 -
[2]
Forum search, USE IT!
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Kayosoni
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Posted - 2003.11.26 04:46:00 -
[3]
I have both. You should too. 
(since ECM is worthless vs a shield tank raven with FoF cruise.)
and yea, use forum search :P |
Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2003.11.26 06:14:00 -
[4]
Aye but a jammed and webbed and scrambled raven isn't going anywhere, so the scorp can call on freinds :D
Order out of Chaos |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.11.26 15:54:00 -
[5]
raven vs scorp usually ends in stalemate, due to the sheilds.
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Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2003.11.26 19:01:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
raven vs scorp usually ends in stalemate, due to the sheilds.
That is in a standard 1 on 1, but on tq, chances are the scorpion will win on shear chance that if it can't kill its target, it can at least hold it down (hopefully) unti'll support arrives.
But yes, a psudo shield scorp vs a shield raven will end up in a stalemate always... unless one of the pilots has very lacking engineering skills, but even then it can be countered by adding another cpr.
Order out of Chaos |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.26 19:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: j0sephine on 26/11/2003 19:10:56
"But yes, a psudo shield scorp vs a shield raven will end up in a stalemate always... unless one of the pilots has very lacking engineering skills, but even then it can be countered by adding another cpr."
... Uhmm, 4 torpedos = ~500-1000 hp down every few seconds even with hardeners... how long can you keep the warp scrambler, guns, launchers, shield hardeners and shield booster running together before you plain run out of cap? o.o;
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Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.11.26 22:00:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 26/11/2003 19:10:56
"But yes, a psudo shield scorp vs a shield raven will end up in a stalemate always... unless one of the pilots has very lacking engineering skills, but even then it can be countered by adding another cpr."
... Uhmm, 4 torpedos = ~500-1000 hp down every few seconds even with hardeners... how long can you keep the warp scrambler, guns, launchers, shield hardeners and shield booster running together before you plain run out of cap? o.o;
I can run 2 shield hardeners non-stop forever with no cap loss along with 2 afterburners and my skills are not much beyond L3 or L4 at most. I do use a Medium Cap Battery to help even out the initial load along with 2-3 Cap Power Relays...
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2003.11.26 22:23:00 -
[9]
Quote:
... Uhmm, 4 torpedos = ~500-1000 hp down every few seconds even with hardeners... how long can you keep the warp scrambler, guns, launchers, shield hardeners and shield booster running together before you plain run out of cap? o.o;
20 minutes. After that point, the Raven pilot ran out of ammo, and I was still on 70% or so cap.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.27 01:59:00 -
[10]
"20 minutes. After that point, the Raven pilot ran out of ammo, and I was still on 70% or so cap."
... Sounded so ridiculous had to check myself so put together some quick setup on Chaos, and turns out to be right o.o I'd just sit there, tank all the torps from Raven, and neither the shields nor cap got below 50%... sucky >>;;
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Booky
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Posted - 2003.11.27 07:50:00 -
[11]
Wow, really? So I take it that if I fit a thermal and a em shield they both give 50% still? I was under the impression that if you fit more than one type that effects the same thing (shields) they get nerfed some?
Just wondering since im still new to the PvP part of eve, but im likeing playing around with you rats untill it gets too hot and I got to bug out. Luckily I haven't lost my Raven yet but I did have some close calls :-) Almost got me a Scorp and a Megathron, but then again I almost died by the scorp and the mega ran, was great fun.
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2003.11.27 08:43:00 -
[12]
Quote:
"20 minutes. After that point, the Raven pilot ran out of ammo, and I was still on 70% or so cap."
... Sounded so ridiculous had to check myself so put together some quick setup on Chaos, and turns out to be right o.o I'd just sit there, tank all the torps from Raven, and neither the shields nor cap got below 50%... sucky >>;;
That's with 4 cap power relays though, with 3 you'll be at half cap with proper control. Which i preffer since i can then fit a damage mod on to help my 1400's along.
Order out of Chaos |
Sebiestor Jackal
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Posted - 2003.11.28 14:17:00 -
[13]
IMO i would think the Raven would kick the crap out of a Scorp. the Raven has 6 launcher slots so u slap on 6 Siege launchers with F.O.F Cruise missle's and Defenders.
with that load out the Scorp can target jam u all he wants because ur FOF's r going to give him a wiplash he'll never forget and the Defenders will counter the missle's he try's shooting at u.
also if u have any drones they will automatically atack the Scorp when he fire's a shot at u.
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**Free My People**
**All Amarrians MUST DIE!!** |
Khar'du
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Posted - 2003.11.28 14:36:00 -
[14]
mmm, read the above posts on tanking the torp stream out fella ?
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.28 15:09:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Wow, really? So I take it that if I fit a thermal and a em shield they both give 50% still? I was under the impression that if you fit more than one type that effects the same thing (shields) they get nerfed some?
1 hardener per damage type means no nerf.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2003.11.28 15:50:00 -
[16]
Quote:
IMO i would think the Raven would kick the crap out of a Scorp. the Raven has 6 launcher slotsso u slap on 6 Siege launchers with F.O.F Cruise missle's and Defenders.
with that load out the Scorp can target jam u all he wants because ur FOF's r going to give him a wiplash he'll never forget and the Defenders will counter the missle's he try's shooting at u.
also if u have any drones they will automatically atack the Scorp when he fire's a shot at u.
or, i could blast u to death at 18k with ma 3 1400mm, and load defenders into ma 3 launchers, take out most of your FOF missiles, run a XL shield booster for the FOFs that do get thru, cause i need no cap for the guns.
u then run out of FOF missiles, i load up my launchers with cruise and then u die.
a jammed ship is a dead ship.
although u could run 3 spatial ecms on the raven, then the raven dies, or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or , get ma point
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.11.28 15:51:00 -
[17]
ehm... Put it like this:
A scorpion fitted with 4 siegelaunchers with torpedos, 2 1400mm with EMP and 1 counterbalanced damagemod, and with the skills MLO lvl 5, LP 4, SS 4, RF 4 has a total damage output of about 168 damage per seconed (against 0% resistance).
And a shield tanked Raven using 5 of 6 medslots for shields should be able to withstand that damage/time forever.
A Tempest can also be shieldtanked in such a way using 4 of 5 medslots to shields, that it would take 13-14 minutes for the Scorpion to take out the shields of the Tempest. And during that time the Scorp would use up about 230 torpedos and 100 L ammo...
Infact, if we consider a battleship to have 5000 shields, 5000 armor and 5000 structure, and running EM + thermal hardener, it would take the Scorpion almost exactly 2 minutes to destroy that battleship even if that battleship is not running a shield booster.
Hence, a single Scorpion with this loadout can never destroy another battleship unless that pilot is an idiot, since he simply can just log off if he's not tanked enough.
So if the single Scorpion wants to destroy another battleship he needs a more aggresive loadout. But this also means that the scorpion's defence becomes weeker. And thereby it will most likely not be able to withstand the FOF missiles + drones from a Raven or Tempest...
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.28 18:18:00 -
[18]
Quote:
So if the single Scorpion wants to destroy another battleship he needs a more aggresive loadout. But this also means that the scorpion's defence becomes weeker. And thereby it will most likely not be able to withstand the FOF missiles + drones from a Raven or Tempest...
Tempest also has another option...though it's one I loathe to use as few people are using the shield tank setup:
Energy Neutralizers
With both ships capless, it becomes a matter of armor and damage. It's just not an enjoyable experience wincing with every impact 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Sebiestor Jackal
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Posted - 2004.01.02 13:36:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Sebiestor Jackal on 02/01/2004 14:06:10
Edited by: Sebiestor Jackal on 02/01/2004 13:49:26
Edited by: Sebiestor Jackal on 02/01/2004 13:48:48
Quote:
mmm, read the above posts on tanking the torp stream out fella ?
cruise missle's r faster than torps. if you have on defenders, atleast 3 or 4 of the 6 fof's flying at u would make it through. nevermind the 7 or 8 drones flying at u
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**Free My People**
**All Amarrians MUST DIE!!** |
Sebiestor Jackal
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Posted - 2004.01.02 14:04:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Quote:
IMO i would think the Raven would kick the crap out of a Scorp. the Raven has 6 launcher slotsso u slap on 6 Siege launchers with F.O.F Cruise missle's and Defenders.
with that load out the Scorp can target jam u all he wants because ur FOF's r going to give him a wiplash he'll never forget and the Defenders will counter the missle's he try's shooting at u.
also if u have any drones they will automatically atack the Scorp when he fire's a shot at u.
or, i could blast u to death at 18k with ma 3 1400mm, and load defenders into ma 3 launchers, take out most of your FOF missiles, run a XL shield booster for the FOFs that do get thru, cause i need no cap for the guns.
u then run out of FOF missiles, i load up my launchers with cruise and then u die.
a jammed ship is a dead ship.
although u could run 3 spatial ecms on the raven, then the raven dies, or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or, get ma point
well i'm sure now u feel different about that setup after the Castor patch considering all those ecm's u would need to lock down the Raven with 3 ecm's + would drain your cap in less than 15 sec'sthen u would be a sitting duck for my criuse missles, combat drones and 1400mm
i think all the Raven will see from a Scorp is not combat but its afterburners
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**Free My People**
**All Amarrians MUST DIE!!** |
Hiyo Silver
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Posted - 2004.01.02 14:48:00 -
[21]
This loadout on chaos took all another raven had for 20 mins, cap never ran out, and after taking some initial armor damage, shields went back up and never really went below 50%:
4 siege launchers (cruise)
2 h-50 (defenders)
2 425 Rails
1 large c5l
2 shield amps
1 kinetic hardener
1 expl hardener
All cap relays in low slot
Everything was turned on autorepeat and the other raven, I think was comparatively equipped. Im sure the fight would have gone on alot longer but he ran out of missiles :)
1v1 is kind of a joke really. We all are getting fairly close in skills now so unless you are fighting a noob or throw in the EW game, its really just who gets bored first or runs out of ammo.
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Namarus
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Posted - 2004.01.02 18:05:00 -
[22]
hmm even running out of ammo, doesn't stop you sitting there, running your shield boosters, and hardners until he's run out of ammo also.
Nothing to see here .... move along. |
Hiyo Silver
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Posted - 2004.01.02 18:48:00 -
[23]
...and thats where the boredom part comes in
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.01.02 19:45:00 -
[24]
Kinetic/explosive hardeners? Wtf?
Try to 1on1 an apoc instead, then your defenders will be useless (more of less anyway), and you'll regret your choice of shield hardeners bigtime.
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Hiyo Silver
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Posted - 2004.01.02 20:03:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Hiyo Silver on 02/01/2004 20:05:03
Well when I fitted those hardeners I was intending on going up against someone else with a very different ship It just happened that while waiting the guy in the raven showed up and we had it out. The guy was using just about solely paradise cruise so I did okay without them.
But frankly, whats wrong with fitting those against an Apoc? Chances are even with an EM/Therm ward, Im gonna lose my shields eventually to a Apoc anyways, if their skills are good enough. But with the Expl/Kin hardeners coupled with the Lasers poor damage to armor/hull, it would take you a day and a half to get through em, even with caldari's poor armor/structure.
In fact Id warrant that with that loadout, a raven would be an Apocs worst enemy. If I had prior knowledge of facing an Apoc, I might trade the kinetic hardener for an EM hardener, but Id feel pretty confident either way.
If you want, feel free to look me up on chaos and we'll "test" it out.
edit: Oh and who says i cant switch the H-50s from defenders to more cruise?
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.01.02 20:08:00 -
[26]
um... your shield hardeners quit giving you a dmg resist when your shield is gone.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Hiyo Silver
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Posted - 2004.01.02 20:12:00 -
[27]
oops I knew that 
/emote feels downright noobish
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Lily Savage
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Posted - 2004.01.02 23:51:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Infact, if we consider a battleship to have 5000 shields, 5000 armor and 5000 structure, and running EM + thermal hardener, it would take the Scorpion almost exactly 2 minutes to destroy that battleship even if that battleship is not running a shield booster.
Hence, a single Scorpion with this loadout can never destroy another battleship unless that pilot is an idiot, since he simply can just log off if he's not tanked enough.
Er, can you run shield hardeners (or indeed shield boosters) after you've logged off?
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.01.03 03:00:00 -
[29]
whit good energy managment u can make Scorpion in something that is close to shield tank from hell
u can have 3 apocks firing at u and in meantime bake turkey (the turkey will be redy before ur shields are down)
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Sebiestor Jackal
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Posted - 2004.04.09 14:44:00 -
[30]
Quote:
whit good energy managment u can make Scorpion in something that is close to shield tank from hell
u can have 3 apocks firing at u and in meantime bake turkey (the turkey will be redy before ur shields are down)
true and nice sig
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**Free My People**
**All Amarrians MUST DIE!!** |
Kynoch
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Posted - 2004.04.09 16:47:00 -
[31]
In every engagement that I have been in where a Scorp was in the group against us, it either died very fast or was taken out of action within seconds. Either the pirate flying the damn thing had no idea how to outfit for EW or they just dont fare well in combat. Of course if you use superior tactics it doesnt really matter.
On the flip side Ive seen a corp mates Raven deal sick damage and be the last ship to break engagement against superior numbers with only shield loss. I dont fly either but I can and will experiemtn with a Scorp soon.
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.09 19:12:00 -
[32]
I see we're bumping old threads today...
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2004.04.22 19:23:00 -
[33]
I scared away a Scorpion on Chaos the other day in my Caracal. I simply used a sensor dampner so that he couldn't fire back, then kept my distance whilst lobbing torpedoes at him for about half an hour. Took a few hits, but nothing a medium shield booster couldn't remedy.
Battle Angels Inc - The Movie
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.04.22 19:46:00 -
[34]
The best combination is a scorp with a gravametric backup array + eccm to boost its'self against jamming, then add 2 eccm projectors, and a nice shield tank, some nice weaponry etc, then add a fully 100% combat loaded raven to accompany that scorp, when the ravens jammed, the scorp can unjam it and let it get back to business, the scorp is an excelent backup ship for any damage dealing ship out there and can be fit in a multitude of ways.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.04.22 20:02:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Bella Verde on 22/04/2004 20:10:33
ALL SHIPS HAVE THEIR USES.
edit: except for the bellicose and heron...
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Neil Crow
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Posted - 2004.04.22 20:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
I scared away a Scorpion on Chaos the other day in my Caracal. I simply used a sensor dampner so that he couldn't fire back, then kept my distance whilst lobbing torpedoes at him for about half an hour. Took a few hits, but nothing a medium shield booster couldn't remedy.
Nothing that matters though...
1) You would have died or been forced to warp if he used FoF missiles and/or drones (don't tell me you can keep up with that forever with just a med shieldbooster)
2) Since he was outside warp scramble range it doesn't matter
3) Half an hour
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Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2004.04.22 20:06:00 -
[37]
This is an old thread. At this point I wouldn't buy a Raven for PvP, I'd buy a Tempest or Megathron. Scorp still has it's uses in a fleet (ie. 2 or more ships) as EW/ECM but can't dish enough damage for 1 vs. 1 unless the Scorp pilot is vastly superiour to his opponent in skills and PvP experience/ability.
BW
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.04.22 20:08:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Bobby Wilson
This is an old thread. At this point I wouldn't buy a Raven for PvP, I'd buy a Tempest or Megathron. Scorp still has it's uses in a fleet (ie. 2 or more ships) as EW/ECM but can't dish enough damage for 1 vs. 1 unless the Scorp pilot is vastly superiour to his opponent in skills and PvP experience/ability.
BW
Tanked energy draining ravens are quite damn scary when the pilot knows how to use them. I think we're gonna see a lot of them after this patch.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.04.22 20:13:00 -
[39]
Raven with FOF always beats Scorpion. Best you can do a lot of the time is just force the Scorpion to warp away though.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.04.22 20:43:00 -
[40]
For the love of god Eris PLEASE PLEASE ban Sebiestor Jackal from the Ships and Mods forum or from the forums in their entierty. All he does is bump old threads without saying or adding anything interesting or new to them.
He is the definition of a troll and he has been doing this forever. Please strike him down swiftly and decisively.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.04.22 20:57:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Baun
For the love of god Eris PLEASE PLEASE ban Sebiestor Jackal from the Ships and Mods forum or from the forums in their entierty. All he does is bump old threads without saying or adding anything interesting or new to them.
He is the definition of a troll and he has been doing this forever. Please strike him down swiftly and decisively.
ya he needs to be banned :/
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
JoCool
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Posted - 2004.04.22 22:34:00 -
[42]
ban the bun, ohw what fun!
*waves banstick*
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2004.04.22 23:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Neil Crow
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
I scared away a Scorpion on Chaos the other day in my Caracal. I simply used a sensor dampner so that he couldn't fire back, then kept my distance whilst lobbing torpedoes at him for about half an hour. Took a few hits, but nothing a medium shield booster couldn't remedy.
Nothing that matters though...
1) You would have died or been forced to warp if he used FoF missiles and/or drones (don't tell me you can keep up with that forever with just a med shieldbooster)
2) Since he was outside warp scramble range it doesn't matter
3) Half an hour
Quite true, I am just stating what happened - that's all...
Battle Angels Inc - The Movie
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2004.04.23 04:36:00 -
[44]
I dont fight 1 vs 1 because my ship and playing style isnt built for that.
However I _will_ jam your targeting at 100km and fire away until you leave or my friends show up.
The scorp doesnt cut to as the best ship to be killing in, but it is the best ship to keep from being killed in, IMHO.
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Everyone deserves a chance to live.
My job is to make sure they get it. |
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