| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
   |
Posted - 2006.12.22 19:41:00 -
[1]
In the contract system there is a bug that is being exploited and offenders need to be reported for this. CCP needs to fix this bug to stop the exploitation.
On contracts for items that have a quantity of anything other than one (1), the quantity is clearly shown with a "X #####" after the item shown in the "Offered Items" section of the contract.
Any item that is a quantity of one (1), does not have it's quantity listed as "X 1" on the contract screen but does have it in the final confirmation window before the contract is accepted -- Only if you have not disabled this final warning message though.
For some reason, if you are creating a contract, the quantity is shown for both quantity of one and greater than one, in the final confirmation window
This is inconsistent and leads to confusion and needs to be fixed so all contracts display the same way. See images below for examples of this.
Image of Quantity greater than one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_gtone.gif
Image of Quantity of one -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/qty_one.gif
Image of Confirmation Screen when setting up a contract -> http://www.equo.org/eve/images/confirmation.gif
I have reported this in the Bug Reports and am wondering when CCP is going to put out the general warning to everyone exploiting this bug. See images above as examples (note the one that has no quantity listed but is advertised as a quantity of 30,000 and a price of 75,000,000 isk).
And for everyone that is going to say "No quantity means it's a quantity of one" and it's the way the devs wanted it and all that stuff, need to explain to me why they think the devs bothered to put a x1 in the confirmation window when creating a contract .... I'll offer one for you. It's so you can't rip yourself off by mistakenly putting up more than one item when you intended to put up only a single item. It's to make it clear what you are setting up a contract for. Shouldn't the buyers be afforded the same consideration, by putting the x1 into the contract screen and not in a window that can possibly be disbabled?
|
Bill Shankly
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 19:48:00 -
[2]
sorry but if the buyer cant read then hows that an exploit ?
|
subvert
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 19:54:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Bill Shankly
sorry but if the buyer cant read then hows that an exploit ?
there's nothing to read. an item with 1 amount should list 1 amount, I think thats the point the OP is trying to make.
its not an exploit but its certainly inconsistant and should be patched. 1 item should show x1
|
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 19:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Bill Shankly
sorry but if the buyer cant read then hows that an exploit ?
If there was something to read, it wouldn't be a problem -- that's the point -- The problem is on the contracts with a single item for sale, it doesn't say that anywhere on the screen describing what it is, where it is, who is selling it, etc.... I am not sure what you're talking about here. Did you read the post?
|
Tigolbiddies
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 20:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bill Shankly
sorry but if the buyer cant read then hows that an exploit ?
Here is yet another case of someone displaying the flaws of the contract system in a clear, persuasive manner, and a typical ignorant response of "if they can't read, it is their fault"
As displayed, there is a screen shot where the ONLY quanitity visible is the false quantity amount. If just one item is being sold, there should be a X1.
After that, let the buyer beware.
|
Argenton Sayvers
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 21:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 22/12/2006 21:21:55
1*x^1*2 + 1*x + 1*2
He ate one unit of apple.
I think its common convention to not mention the quantity if its only one item. While it may be inconsistent, its no where near an exploit, so stop the witchhunt and get in queue. There are a million worse problems to fix with contracts first.
|
Louhbo
Gallente
KVA Noble Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 21:26:00 -
[7]
If the amount were prominent in the contract and showed exactly what you are getting into, then it wouldn't be an exploit...but as is...it is a huge problem. I was just duped for a 10m contract on 1 unit of zyd. I had no idea where to find the amount and a warning didn't come up on the zyd auction contract. I however went to the megacyte contract and it did warn me about only having one unit. Dunno why this is so inconsistant. CCP needs to display exactly what you are getting and in what amounts on the contract window.
My frustrated 2 cents worth
Louhbo
|
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 21:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
I think its common convention to not mention the quantity if its only one item.
Argenton would you care to share a screen shot of something that is a single quantity and doesn't have a x1 or [1] or displayed? Unpackaged items don't count because those are unstackable.
|
Cupertino
Castellum
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 21:49:00 -
[9]
Quote:
a warning didn't come up on the zyd auction contract
As far as I recall (and as Dawne points out in the first post), the amount IS stated in small print in the window that pops up to confirm the auction, but not before. If you disabled the popup, you won't see this, but tbh that's a pretty silly thing to do. Regardless of this, I agree that it needs to be changed, the actual amount definitely needs to be clearly displayed prior to that stage.
|
Phrater
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 22:27:00 -
[10]
Caveat Emptor;
Etymology: New Latin, let the buyer beware
: a principle in commerce: without a warranty the buyer takes the risk.
BUT
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/banning.asp
6. SCAMMING
Severe offenses may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:
* a. Illegally obtains items from another through use of an exploit or cheat method.
* b. Intentionally creates missions that cannot be completed through normal game mechanics or abilities.
* c. Has been told by a GM to discontinue a scam ploy and disregards the instruction.
Players are exploiting the contract system because it does not show the quantity upfront.
CCP is not enforcing it's own rules on exploiters the contracts or dragging npc's to a gate to kill next person thru (yes it is an exploit using game mechanics to grief then loot their items). COSMOS is a joke so many farmers you can't do the missions with out a corp trying to steal everything or kill you for interupting their farming. 
|
Al Thorr
Caldari
The Wheel
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 00:35:00 -
[11]
Hey its a system that can be used to trap the unwary .
Been 'done' by it myself. when buying a hulk for an ex corp mate. ( tbh alcohol + didnt read the warnings , got greedy. and 300M down the drain.) - hey whose fault was it - mine. am I peed off - yes of course BUT at myself .
lesson learned - of course.
will I do it again - yeah sure - depends how much beer has been consumed.
Still dont think it an exploit / bug . just me looking at it via rose tinted ' greed specs'
Anyhow just my opinion .
Al Thorr
.
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
|
Ariel Stardust
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 01:23:00 -
[12]
This is not an exploit, coming straight from the dev team.
Stop whining and posting the same garbage 10 times over.
--
Originally by: Dammar
God I HATE Angels. 
|
Ariel Stardust
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 01:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Phrater
Caveat Emptor;
Etymology: New Latin, let the buyer beware
: a principle in commerce: without a warranty the buyer takes the risk.
BUT
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/banning.asp
6. SCAMMING
Severe offenses may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:
* a. Illegally obtains items from another through use of an exploit or cheat method.
* b. Intentionally creates missions that cannot be completed through normal game mechanics or abilities.
* c. Has been told by a GM to discontinue a scam ploy and disregards the instruction.
Players are exploiting the contract system because it does not show the quantity upfront.
CCP is not enforcing it's own rules on exploiters the contracts or dragging npc's to a gate to kill next person thru (yes it is an exploit using game mechanics to grief then loot their items). COSMOS is a joke so many farmers you can't do the missions with out a corp trying to steal everything or kill you for interupting their farming.
You apparently dont understand what the word "exploit" means. It means taking advantage of a bug or unintentional design flaw. The difference here is, scamming legal in Eve, and THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL DESIGN ASTHETIC.
--
Originally by: Dammar
God I HATE Angels.
|
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
New Eve Order
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 01:40:00 -
[14]
CCP like to allow scamming and this is the way they designed it the xxxx 1 and not showing single units is basically meant to be there CCP have said by their inaction on this that they want this to be in place to the OP scamming is allowed and this is how it will happen. Stop whining
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Dei
Crystaline Green
Order of the Khanid Crown
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 01:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ariel Stardust
Originally by: Phrater
Caveat Emptor;
Etymology: New Latin, let the buyer beware
: a principle in commerce: without a warranty the buyer takes the risk.
BUT
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/banning.asp
6. SCAMMING
Severe offenses may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:
* a. Illegally obtains items from another through use of an exploit or cheat method.
* b. Intentionally creates missions that cannot be completed through normal game mechanics or abilities.
* c. Has been told by a GM to discontinue a scam ploy and disregards the instruction.
Players are exploiting the contract system because it does not show the quantity upfront.
CCP is not enforcing it's own rules on exploiters the contracts or dragging npc's to a gate to kill next person thru (yes it is an exploit using game mechanics to grief then loot their items). COSMOS is a joke so many farmers you can't do the missions with out a corp trying to steal everything or kill you for interrupting their farming.
You apparently dont understand what the word "exploit" means. It means taking advantage of a bug or unintentional design flaw. The difference here is, scamming legal in Eve, and THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL DESIGN AESTHETIC.
Surely you have to agree that in order to be fair to the wider EVE population, and to make it easier for newbies to join the game without getting scammed of their hard earned isk, that CCP have to stick in the x1.
Sure it's not an exploit, but you're arguing over spilt milk, just /sign the x1 plea.
|
sesanti
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 01:44:00 -
[16]
Pfft, stupid whiners, they call exploit or bug anything they don't like to try and force CCP to change it, citing paragraphs of the EULA like if they were lawyers from Harvard and the EULA was a national penal code. 
_______________________________________________
The ShadowMaster -
<I am a guy... don't mind the portrait> |
Ariel Stardust
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 01:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ariel Stardust on 23/12/2006 01:45:32
Originally by: Dei
Originally by: Ariel Stardust
Originally by: Phrater
Caveat Emptor;
Etymology: New Latin, let the buyer beware
: a principle in commerce: without a warranty the buyer takes the risk.
BUT
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/banning.asp
6. SCAMMING
Severe offenses may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:
* a. Illegally obtains items from another through use of an exploit or cheat method.
* b. Intentionally creates missions that cannot be completed through normal game mechanics or abilities.
* c. Has been told by a GM to discontinue a scam ploy and disregards the instruction.
Players are exploiting the contract system because it does not show the quantity upfront.
CCP is not enforcing it's own rules on exploiters the contracts or dragging npc's to a gate to kill next person thru (yes it is an exploit using game mechanics to grief then loot their items). COSMOS is a joke so many farmers you can't do the missions with out a corp trying to steal everything or kill you for interrupting their farming.
You apparently dont understand what the word "exploit" means. It means taking advantage of a bug or unintentional design flaw. The difference here is, scamming legal in Eve, and THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL DESIGN AESTHETIC.
Surely you have to agree that in order to be fair to the wider EVE population, and to make it easier for newbies to join the game without getting scammed of their hard earned isk, that CCP have to stick in the x1.
Sure it's not an exploit, but you're arguing over spilt milk, just /sign the x1 plea.
You don't understand...
CCP doesn't WANT Eve to become a carebear infested mickey mouse game where you can't die, can't lose anything, and enemies are for all intents and purposes immaculate. This includes newbs.
If you want a game where no one can be scammed... there're plenty out there.
--
Originally by: Dammar
God I HATE Angels.
|
Elvarien
Caldari
The Night's Watch
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:02:00 -
[18]
think of it this way ...
you look at a contract .. how much megacyte are you buting ? ... oh wait whadda ya know I`m buying "MEGACYTE"
... nowhere does it state x10 or x100000 or x4252342134 or whatever value you would like to dream about so its not a bug its not a problem its just .. megacyte ... its quite clear to me actualy a simple single unit of megacyte... if you have not learnt to properly read by now you deserve to get scammed imo
>---
A properly fitted manticore is Ninja. |
Allen Deckard
Gallente
LFC
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:22:00 -
[19]
you know you can also link the discription of the item being sold? This shows full discription lets say a hulk in the item discription since their is no 1x display for 1 item it shows completely normal. But their is no item.
For any of you that keep screaming that it's intentional? Ok quit scamming.
I could throw in here how ccp intended on log off tactics to be used cause it works.
Not everything that is in the game that works works because they intended it to be that way.
Not quite so convenced that ccp sitting at their desk saying hmmmmm how can I make this a less used feature. I really dont want people using this feature of the game so how can I make it easier to get scammed on it?
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
Palitir
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:29:00 -
[20]
if theres just a single item for display, it wont display the ammount.. if theres more than one it will show you the ammount, if it doesnt, then it might be a bug. But if theres only one, it will just show the picture of the one item, nothing more, nothing less.
=========================
Sponsored to bring you grief by the Bounty Channel. |
Herring
Pimpology
Pimpology in Mining Player
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 22/12/2006 21:21:55
1*x^1*2 + 1*x + 1*2
He ate one unit of apple.
I think its common convention to not mention the quantity if its only one item. While it may be inconsistent, its no where near an exploit, so stop the witchhunt and get in queue. There are a million worse problems to fix with contracts first.
I'd challenge you to list the top 3 as opposed to the formentioned issue.
Wishing for better mining ships in a system near you. |
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ariel Stardust
This is not an exploit, coming straight from the dev team.
Stop whining and posting the same garbage 10 times over.
Ariel good job addressing the original post :) Belittling or name calling, the first sign someone has no arguement.
|
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Miss Overlord
CCP like to allow scamming and this is the way they designed it the xxxx 1 and not showing single units is basically meant to be there CCP have said by their inaction on this that they want this to be in place to the OP scamming is allowed and this is how it will happen. Stop whining
Miss Overlord if there was consistancy in the way things were displayed across the board I might have a different view -- as it is, there isn't.
|
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: sesanti
Pfft, stupid whiners, they call exploit or bug anything they don't like to try and force CCP to change it, citing paragraphs of the EULA like if they were lawyers from Harvard and the EULA was a national penal code.
Thanks for this pointless contribution...
|
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 02:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Elvarien
think of it this way ...
you look at a contract .. how much megacyte are you buting ? ... oh wait whadda ya know I`m buying "MEGACYTE"
... nowhere does it state x10 or x100000 or x4252342134 or whatever value you would like to dream about so its not a bug its not a problem its just .. megacyte ... its quite clear to me actualy a simple single unit of megacyte... if you have not learnt to properly read by now you deserve to get scammed imo
Elvarien you didn't read the whole original post did you? Read the whole thing before you post next time, the last paragraph of post comments specifically on this.
|
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 03:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Palitir
if theres just a single item for display, it wont display the ammount.. if theres more than one it will show you the ammount, if it doesnt, then it might be a bug. But if theres only one, it will just show the picture of the one item, nothing more, nothing less.
Palitir you might want to read the entire post again, I specifically say this is inconsistent, there are no other places I have been able to find that an item that is a single item, does not have it's quantity of one listed. Can you?
|
Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 03:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Elvarien
think of it this way ...
you look at a contract .. how much megacyte are you buting ? ... oh wait whadda ya know I`m buying "MEGACYTE"
... nowhere does it state x10 or x100000 or x4252342134 or whatever value you would like to dream about so its not a bug its not a problem its just .. megacyte ... its quite clear to me actualy a simple single unit of megacyte... if you have not learnt to properly read by now you deserve to get scammed imo
That is quite faulty logic - on top of obviously not having read the OP all the way through.
Megacyte in plural is also Megacyte - so if you are not aware of this issue, you might well think its just the type designation. That it just says Megacyte no matter how much of it. Which might also go for items that are not the same in singular and plural - for all the buyer knows.
And on top of that, the problem is that there IS an amount designation on the screen. Entered by the seller. In such a way that the buyer - still unaware of this issue - might be lead to think its "official" information, as it is the only amount designation in the window.
Should it stay that way? Its debatable, but I don't think so. But at least get the facts and the logic straight.
|
Semkhet
Saudarkars
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 04:56:00 -
[28]
Some threads definitely smell like diapers...
If understanding that
"no specific amount displayed tacitely means ONE unit"
is soo difficult, then probably the OP has never had to cope with the intricacies of the wording of any contemporary contract you may find in real life.
|
Dawne Xi
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 07:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 23/12/2006 07:11:07
Originally by: Semkhet
Some threads definitely smell like diapers...
If understanding that
"no specific amount displayed tacitely means ONE unit"
is soo difficult, then probably the OP has never had to cope with the intricacies of the wording of any contemporary contract you may find in real life.
Ahh another insult coupled with no support for the opposing side.
Here are examples of places in the game where a one is clearly shown to indicate quantity. Would any of you "No Qty obviously means it's one" crowd please show me an example of an item, other than unpackaged items, where a quantity of one, does not accompany the icon or the text describing an item?
Minerals:
http://www.equo.org/eve/images/mineral.gif
From a blueprint, describing what is produced from it:
http://www.equo.org/eve/images/blueprint.gif
Stackable items:
http://www.equo.org/eve/images/stackableitems.gif
Confirmation Screen when entering a contract:
http://www.equo.org/eve/images/confirmation.gif
I am anxiously awaiting your screen shots...
|
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.12.23 07:23:00 -
[30]
Repeated posting of the same topic still doesn't make it liked by the mods around these parts. It might have been a better idea to bump up your other thread about the issue.
If the issue was a bug or considered an exploit we'd already have seen a fix or two and an announcement or five since it has been implemented.
No official word in the context of a change in EVE usually means that the feature works exactly as intended or that the devs like the way it came out in the end.
Hint: Do not buy ammo, ores or minerals with the (expensive) contract system.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |