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First Mining Barge is never used, lower req. please.

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Zyper Minmatar Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.24 01:37:00 - [1] This ship is actually pretty terrible (link: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ships/miningbarges/ore/17480.asp), a cruiser can outmine it with just a few skill pts so no-one really ever use it, however if the requirement was lowered a bit so you could get it a lot quicker (and not just 6-7 days away from the Retriever) im sure a lot more beginners would go for it instead of the cruiser perhaps.. Would be nice to see it out there atleast.. Another way would be to give it a bonus to a special type of (low/mid-end) ore like the tech2 variant. --
Rihards	Posted - 2006.12.24 08:59:00 - [2] I actually agree, considering it's a specialist ship, which specialises in mining. One would think that it could mine better than a cruiser.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Solid Industries Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.24 15:47:00 - [3] Perhaps 2500 m3, and an ice mining bonus would make it more attractive. ________________________ - Posting on forums can be more arduous than mowing your lawn with nail scissors -
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.12.24 16:32:00 - [4] with max skills and cruiser 5 cant the osprey almost equal the mid range barge in raw ore/hour?
Karon Wodens LFC	Posted - 2006.12.24 16:38:00 - [5] The Osprey is of course superior to all things, after all, It's a Caldari brand ship. Caldari Prime: Think of that moment, remember what they did...
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.24 17:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker with max skills and cruiser 5 cant the osprey almost equal the mid range barge in raw ore/hour? It works out pretty close, assuming the Retriever is using T1 strip miners and the Osprey has three T2 mining lasers and Caldari Cruiser V, but the Retriever is a little bit faster even then. With T2 strips, the barge owns the cruiser. And remember, the training that goes into Cruiser V is actually greater than Mining Barge V, so a Covetor's not out of reach at that point. The procurer's unpopular because the Retriever's so easy to train for, but the ability to mine ice and the fact that it only requires one of the expensive strip miners makes it worthwhile to some smaller corps to keep a couple around for their members to use while they train for the Retriever. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2006.12.26 14:17:00 - [7] Or make the procurer easy to store so smaller ships can transport a packaged procurer to the mining location and deploy it fit to mine there.
Karon Wodens LFC	Posted - 2006.12.26 14:23:00 - [8] How about granting it immense bonuses per level for the "crap ore types". 10% increased velspar amount per level 5% increased scordite amount per level 3% increased pyroxeres amount per level. Leave the other ore types alone. But with this, we'd make sure they were always a popular "high sec" vessel. Caldari Prime: Think of that moment, remember what they did...
Clansworth Good Rock Materials	Posted - 2006.12.26 16:20:00 - [9] Also consider that there may be some characters that really want ot go the mining route, and may not train cruiser right away. Seems odd, but it is a possibility that they would have the skills for the procurer before the osprey [IDEA] New Ship Class: Heavy Lifter
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.26 17:31:00 - [10] agree. lower the req. or boost it alot.. along with the other mining ships.. i mean a cruiser can as good as outmine the retriever:P and a bs 8 turrets is mining better... shouldn't be any ships that outmine even the first barger..
NaitSaiht Sabes Gallente Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.26 22:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Karon Wodens How about granting it immense bonuses per level for the "crap ore types". 10% increased velspar amount per level 5% increased scordite amount per level 3% increased pyroxeres amount per level. Leave the other ore types alone. But with this, we'd make sure they were always a popular "high sec" vessel. I like this approach. The Skiff has a bonus on Mercoxit and can outmine a Hulk. Why not give the Procurer a Veldspar bonus so it outmines a Covetor (maybe a Hulk) with Veldspar. Nait
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.27 01:01:00 - [12] That sounds pretty good, actually. We all know how important tritanium is, especially to the capital building industry. Letting the procurer rake in scads of veldspar would be a great way for novice miners to contribute to mining ops while their mates are using T2 Arkonor crystals to bring in the Megacyte. Hauling passive targeters from Empire is a silly way to get trit. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Zyper Minmatar Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.29 18:01:00 - [13] Glad im the only one who feels it could use some love then :).. I personally never got it, flew a cruiser instead of the first mining barge at anytime :) Only reason i went for the retriever instead of my Rokh BS with 8 miners is that im too lazy to move the ore every 1min instead of 3min :) --
Avowech Minmatar Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.30 06:16:00 - [14] Anything that makes this ship worth buying and using is worth checking out.
Harris	Posted - 2006.12.30 19:01:00 - [15] This idea came up before. When I replied to the previous threads about it I suggested that the astrogeology skill be reduced from 3 to 1 and the industry skill reduced to 4 from 5 which is a big difference from the barge pre-requisite of 5 but as this ship is so useless in it's current form I thought it warranted consideration. Primary Skill Requirments would then read as this: Mining Barge I Astrogeology I Science IV Mining IV (Needed at 4 for astrogeology anyway) Industry IV
Spoon Thumb Crystaline Green Order of the Khanid Crown	Posted - 2006.12.31 14:22:00 - [16] How about we just have a new "strip miner" hardpoint and give procurer 3 high slots but only 1 strip miner hardpoint. So you can fit a couple of regular miners on it, thus making it that slight bit better than the low end cruiser Additionally, make the BPO cheap and easy to get hold of ----- Crystaline Green For Recruitment and Diplomatic contacts, channel KHANIDPUBLIC
roBurky StateCorp	Posted - 2007.01.01 06:01:00 - [17] Edited by: roBurky on 01/01/2007 06:02:35 I would rather lower the skill requirements for the procurer than give the ship any extra bonus. Just make it easy enough to train for that it's a perfect first mining ship, if you want to buy a ship purely for mining. The covetor, however, works fine as the max-mining skill-monster it is. So we just want to change the requirements for the procurer and retriever. It's mainly the industry level V that's the barrier to entry into the lower level mining barges. It's not a skill that's normally related to mining, so it requires a long and dedicated training effort towards the ships. I propose simply moving the level V requirement from the skill, to the covetor ship, and having the retriever and procurer require only levels III and I. The astrogeology requirement could also be lowered for the lower level barges. I suggest changing the requirements of the mining barge skill from astrogeology III and Industry V to astrogeology I and Industry I. Then we can alter the requirements of the procurer from mining barge I and astrogeology III to mining barge I, astrogeology I and industry I. The retriever requirements can be changed from mining barge III and astrogeology IV to mining barge III, astrogeology III, and industry III. The covetor requirements would be altered from mining barge V and astrogeology V to mining barge V, astrogeology V and industry V. ---
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:46:00 - [18] I second this idea. For mining veld, the procurer with level 4 barge skill should be as good as a coveter, and a little better with level 5.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:53:00 - [19] Originally by: roBurky It's mainly the industry level V that's the barrier to entry into the lower level mining barges. Not anymore since revelations.ote]
Harris	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:08:00 - [20] Edited by: Harris on 03/01/2007 12:19:06 Originally by: Gaogan I second this idea. For mining veld, the procurer with level 4 barge skill should be as good as a coveter, and a little better with level 5. Totally disagree with this one, the barges should mine progressively well the further up the chain you go, only the exhumers have that specific role bonus and that's the way it should stay. The skills should be lowered for the lower end barges but they should retain their present status with regards mining ability. Mind you, I do like the idea of giving the procuror the extra turret slots for either regular miners or Weapons but not strip miners. Extra protection against NPC's will help the newer miners out there at that early stage where their drone skills aren't good. Originally by: Mira deVorsha Originally by: roBurky It's mainly the industry level V that's the barrier to entry into the lower level mining barges. Not anymore since revelations.ote] EDIT: And where, pray, are you getting your information from? According to the item database and the in-game database, it is still the same as it's ever been, still a big barrier to the lower level mining barges Procuror skills requirements: Mining Barge I Astrogeology III Science IV Mining IV Industry V
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Star Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:52:00 - [21] what about a 1 minute stripper! it should have a higher mining base amount than the miner 2 but less than the standard stripper set a bonus to the proc so that only the proc can use it eg 99% less cpu but make sure it only fits the proc
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Harris Totally disagree with this one, the barges should mine progressively well the further up the chain you go, only the exhumers have that specific role bonus and that's the way it should stay. Why should it stay that way? You make no argument for it. Currently the procurer is a waste of a ship, and this is silly. Obviously a hulk would still beat it even at veld, but if it was at least a decent ship to mine veld in with barges 4, it would fill _SOME_ purpose and maybe people would use it _sometimes_. Originally by: Harris The skills should be lowered for the lower end barges but they should retain their present status with regards mining ability. This still would not make it useful at all because you could still outmine it in a cruiser. Heck, I think you could match it with one of the frigs with mining bonus.
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Gaogan This still would not make it useful at all because you could still outmine it in a cruiser. Heck, I think you could match it with one of the frigs with mining bonus. Not quite. Each barge can beat out a class of ships, with equal skills. So a Procurer beats any frigate, a Retriever beats any cruiser and a Covetor beats any battleship. With Cruiser V, an Osprey's awfully close to a Retriever with T1 strip miners, but T2 strips make the barge way better. I see no problem with specializing the T1 barges. Give the Retriever an ice bonus and the Procurer a veld bonus. T1 cruiser have specializations that equate to their T2 variants, and T1 frigates do, too. Why not barges? In fact, I'd be okay with a bonus to both Veldspar and Scordite on the Procurer. 40% Veld yield, 20% Scord yeild per level of barge, so it can match a Covetor for Veld or a retriever for Scord at Barge 5. And yes, get rid of the Industry V pre-req. Industry doesn't even affect mining, it's to do with manufacturing. It's silly to max out an irrelevant skill for the profession. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Harris Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Gaogan Why should it stay that way? You make no argument for it. Currently the procurer is a waste of a ship, and this is silly. Obviously a hulk would still beat it even at veld, but if it was at least a decent ship to mine veld in with barges 4, it would fill _SOME_ purpose and maybe people would use it _sometimes_. Originally by: Harris The skills should be lowered for the lower end barges but they should retain their present status with regards mining ability. This still would not make it useful at all because you could still outmine it in a cruiser. Heck, I think you could match it with one of the frigs with mining bonus. Wasn't aware I had to, just stated my opinion. I just feel that the procuror should be the frigate equivalent of barges and outmine every frigate out there with mining bonuses and be as easy to get into so it's a 'noob miner ship'. The idea of enabling it to fit two more turrest (but not strip miners) is a good one as I know that when I started out mining, defending myself was the main concern I had, not the amount I could mine. It would be a waste if I lost my ship... no more mining. By the same reasoning, I believe that the retriever should outmine every cruiser out there, even when you have cruiser lvl V. If you want to mine better than a retriever, get a covetor or specific (expensive) set ups on a battleship. I believe that the covetor should outmine all ship out there with the exception of the exhumers, but I also believe that there is a case for not having to train Barge lvl 5 for it, that lvl 4 would be fine and 5 remain the requirement for the exhumers. Just thoughts that have been proposed that I have no violent disagreement to. How would a mining bonus to veld work, what about those systems that don't have scordite, but have plagioclase. Thinking about it, I would suggest (if I were to support the idea, which I don't :p) that maybe the limit should go on ore 'size' as the limit so only the smaller rocks got the bonus... plag, scord, veld. It should be a noob ship, not a veldspar miners dream. If you really do want to pull in large amounts, train up to the better ships. The arguement that it is useless doesn't wash. It is useless cos the amount of training spent to get to it, lands you in a better ship straight away anyway, so why bother jumping in one. Lowering the training requirments for it to that which a noob can achieve without breaking sweat and we have a rookie miners dream, and they will sell and be used just like every other starter ship out there.
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:17:00 - [25] I don't think any ship should be "just for noobs", except of course noob ships. All ships have different properties. There are times when a frigate can get a kill that a battleship can't, or a destroyer can get a job done that would take a HAC longer. Some are better than others, but in combat, most ships have some functionality, if only because they are cheap and expendable. Only in carebear ship types, like mining barges and industrials, do we find pure "upgrades" that render previous models obsolete. I know that CCP and the player base agree that combat is the soul of EvE, but I'd like to see some of the diversity and depth that combat players enjoy translated for non-combat professions. There's one best setup for mining that works on every ore type and in every situation excep mercoxit, which less than 1% of the population has seen, much less mined. There's one best hauler, one best miner, one way to do the job, and a mindless skill wait until you reach it. Let the barges be different and interesting and nuanced, so we can use them with some finesse, rather than just getting the "best" one we have skill/isk for and watching the progress bar creep along. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Gnord	Posted - 2007.01.04 08:11:00 - [26] Agreed, an osprey and a retriever are almost evenly matched at mining 4. The retriever only takes a few hours longer to get into than the procurer. And what does industry 5 REALLY have anything to do with mining anyways? It's a builder skill, not a mining skill. A retriever with mining 5 can easily outdo an osprey, but the procurer still can't match an osprey with the modulated strip miner. It seems totally pointless.
Harris Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.01.04 09:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader I don't think any ship should be "just for noobs", except of course noob ships. All ships have different properties. There are times when a frigate can get a kill that a battleship can't, or a destroyer can get a job done that would take a HAC longer. Some are better than others, but in combat, most ships have some functionality, if only because they are cheap and expendable. Only in carebear ship types, like mining barges and industrials, do we find pure "upgrades" that render previous models obsolete. I know that CCP and the player base agree that combat is the soul of EvE, but I'd like to see some of the diversity and depth that combat players enjoy translated for non-combat professions. There's one best setup for mining that works on every ore type and in every situation excep mercoxit, which less than 1% of the population has seen, much less mined. There's one best hauler, one best miner, one way to do the job, and a mindless skill wait until you reach it. Let the barges be different and interesting and nuanced, so we can use them with some finesse, rather than just getting the "best" one we have skill/isk for and watching the progress bar creep along. At present, because of the skill path required for procuror, it is obselete before it gets used by anyone. That is the reason why it isn't used, not because it serves no purpose. The same can be said of most pvp ships also. I don't fly the majority of frigates any more as they are obselete, despite the devs effort to give them a role to mirror T2 ship functions. Does that mean they should all have extra bonuses to be given to them so stop them being obselete? They tried it and for the most part, the majority of those ships are still ignored because there is another ship that can do the job almost as well, and live longer to tell the tale and still be able to perform other functions. They are noob ships. Entry level ships to skill sets and functions that characters will be able to perform much better with much better ships later on in their skill path/careers. Why should the procuror be any different? Answer. It shouldn't. Nor does it need to be. Example: Want to use scan probes? Most serious players use covert ops ships as the bonus is huge to scan probe times. They can use the imicius (for example) but why bother? it doesn't do the job as well and by the time someone is doing pvp scanning, they are skilled enough that they want the best ship for the job. Only other reason to use it? Exploration. Probably less than 5% of the population are doing that. Mercoxit by the way, is mined using the one ship that is the best to do it, the skiff... The one ship that outmines mercoxit compared to all other ships no matter what their setup. including the hulk. To get that, it's just Quote: watching the progress bar creep along. to Mining Barge V and the extra hour to get into the skiff with Exhumers I. Barges don't have to be different and interesting, Exhumers are, it's just a grind to get to them and it's only an day at most past flying covetor - then it's only isk that is the barrier. That is why the consideration of dropping the covetor requirements to lvl 4 barge is worth thinking about, as it's the T1 variant, with the exhumers being the T2 ship in that class. Problem from that, every joe will be flying one, why bother with the retrievers at all, much less the procurors. Unless you drop their skill requirments. So. Here we are again. Make the procurors and retrievers much easier to get into compared to the mining cruisers so it's worth while training it as a skill-set. Let the pvpers use the mining cruisers as an incidental crutch for when they need the isk quickly. Let the procuror have a use in mining, if only because it's cheap enough for the new guysand expendable but not a grind to get into like it is at the present time.
Lygos Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:33:00 - [28] Maybe they should just give all the barge the ability to fit a mod which automatically transfers ore to cans. Personally, I don't give crap about mining. My reasons, in no particular order: -Just practical. -No more widespread practice of alt farming. -No need to commit scarce gm resources to the problem. (CCP saves enough money by laying off non-critical staff that Mr. Peterssun can buy a new yacht.) -Mineral markets can't sink much below npc demand anyhow. -Players are lazy. Remember warp to zero? -Tired of people whining about it for 3 years. -No more asian stereotypes. -Isk sellers go out of business through internal competition. -Ore theives have a field day. -Ebay quits blocking their calls. -Mining is deadly dull, too easy, insufficiently competitive, and needs to be radically overhauled and replaced with something more fitting for twenty-first century computer entertainment anyway. --- T2 Risk \| Corp Divisions
Syrec Gallente Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.05 08:13:00 - [29] An Apoc can out-mine than the first and second mining barges, and as you said a cruiser can out-mine the first. Unless the yields are increased -or- a specific role that other ships can't fill is added, it will continue to go unused.

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