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Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
7
   |
Posted - 2011.12.11 03:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Using HAM's...... frigates are almost un-killable. Tried TP's to no avail.
Any suggestions? |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
192
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 03:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Did you try webs as well? |
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2011.12.11 03:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
yeah i tried webs.
Should note (incase it matters) used t2 or equivilent TP and web.
It just sucks that I can murder lvl 4's but 2 little frigates hold me up for a few reloads worth each from using gate to next rooms.. its stupid. I'm almost ready to sell the damn ship and go back to using my CNS. |
Kaanchana
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2011.12.11 03:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
did u by any chance mean HML? if so, CN missiles easily pop them frigs. But imo precision missiles are the best for frigs. It takes abt 6 volleys for a spider drone for me. and about the same for elite frigs.. |
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 03:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
using heavy assault missiles.
My agent usually gives me worlds collide or angel extravaganza. I'm cringing both atm with this frigate issue. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
136
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 04:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dielax wrote:using heavy assault missiles.
I would highly recommend you try HMLs then. Paper damage lags, but applied damage is much better -- and that's before you figure in the range advantage. |
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 04:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Dielax wrote:using heavy assault missiles.
I would highly recommend you try HMLs then. Paper damage lags, but applied damage is much better -- and that's before you figure in the range advantage.
I'm thinking i might try that. Reason I went with HAM's was cause my tank is pretty awesome and I figured close quarters combat with the HAM's would make missioning a little more fun. I think i'll try training HML's.
If that doesn't work the **** it. Selling the ship wast of isk (FOR ME) at this point. Takes me like 3 reloads sometimes more. Costing me millions just in ammo.
Its ******** really. Its technically a cruiser and its not like I'm using torpedos or something should be able to pop npc frigs in no time. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
153
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 05:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dielax wrote:Its ******** really. Its technically a cruiser and its not like I'm using torpedos or something should be able to pop npc frigs in no time.
It's part of that whole missiles are different than turrets thing; the long range version is better at killing frigs, by far. Also: have you trained up Target Navigation Prediction? |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
308
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 05:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
This is what happens when someone without maxed missile support skills fly Tengu. Forum warriors overrating the tengu are working under the assumption of max skills. Yeah, target paint something very small, and it's still very small, not to mention tps suffer stacking penalty. Hmls with 3x rigors should help. Switch to faction ammo or even precision helps. There are also implants. Webs do nothing, rat frigs are already slow. |
BearJews
YOU BETTER
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 05:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Train a lot of skills, must have t2 ammo. Use HMLS, they are just better all around cause it can hit from 100km out with 700 dps easy sauce.
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Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
308
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Posted - 2011.12.11 05:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
BearJews wrote: Train a lot of skills, must have t2 ammo. Use HMLS, they are just better all around cause it can hit from 100km out with 700 dps easy sauce.
With twice the exp radius as t1 missile. And only on kinetic rats. Without kinetic dmg bonus, it goes down to 500 dps. Tengu can blitz some missions faster due to speed, but that's only compared to typical BS, it's hard to justify when a Mach goes at the same speed. |
Sam Marquez
Freelance Excavation and Resistance
United Outworlders
1
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Posted - 2011.12.11 08:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dielax wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Dielax wrote:using heavy assault missiles.
I would highly recommend you try HMLs then. Paper damage lags, but applied damage is much better -- and that's before you figure in the range advantage. I'm thinking i might try that. Reason I went with HAM's was cause my tank is pretty awesome and I figured close quarters combat with the HAM's would make missioning a little more fun. I think i'll try training HML's. If that doesn't work the **** it. Selling the ship wast of isk (FOR ME) at this point. Takes me like 3 reloads sometimes more. Costing me millions just in ammo. Its ******** really. Its technically a cruiser and its not like I'm using torpedos or something should be able to pop npc frigs in no time.
You definitely need to switch to HML's. I fly a HML Tengu for L4's and I have no trouble with frigates at all. If you switch and you still find yourself having trouble with them, just use T2 precision missiles and wait for the frigates to get close enough. 1-2 rigor rigs should be plenty, assuming your missiles skills are all 3-4 or better. If you can't use T2 HML's... train them ASAP. |
Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
10
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Posted - 2011.12.11 12:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dielax wrote:Using HAM's...... frigates are almost un-killable. Tried TP's to no avail.
Any suggestions?
HML, x3 rigors. |
kyrieee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.12.11 13:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
HAMs in PvE are only for people who know what they're doing. In certain situations, with max skills and a good pilot, HAMs can outperform HMLs by quite a bit, but for L4 missions in particular HMLs are almost always better. |
Sven Galli
Drama Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.11 14:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hondestly, HAMS are a waste on a tengu. I believe it's only 100dps of EFT THEORY CRAFTING WARRIOR dps. My alt is about 790dps with maxed skills and implants and I can kill anything to 110k. |
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 15:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thanks for all the info and not trolling me like I expected i would. 
I'm gonna train up HML's and change my rigs up a bit. I'll report back here when things are trained (in 20 days if i remember correctly)
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BearJews
YOU BETTER
5
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Posted - 2011.12.11 16:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:BearJews wrote: Train a lot of skills, must have t2 ammo. Use HMLS, they are just better all around cause it can hit from 100km out with 700 dps easy sauce.
With twice the exp radius as t1 missile. And only on kinetic rats. Without kinetic dmg bonus, it goes down to 500 dps. Tengu can blitz some missions faster due to speed, but that's only compared to typical BS, it's hard to justify when a Mach goes at the same speed.
Ok, you are comparing a pirate ship that is twice as skill intensive and 3 times the hull cost and who knows how much you'll spend on faction mods. Also, the explosion radius means absolutely nothing in your point. WIth good skills and a good fitting and good implants(t2 rigos, t2flares...a standard for PvE tengu) you will be hitting those rats at FULL. IN Angel Extravaganza i'm two hitting Bcs, 3 hitting frigs (with precision). Yeah sansha rats and missions suck, but you can easily skip those and i'm not really sure about this but i think you tend to get more of your races specific missions if you are in your factions space.
So i'm caldari and i run all my missions out of the citadel. |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
312
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 17:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
BearJews wrote:Goose99 wrote:BearJews wrote: Train a lot of skills, must have t2 ammo. Use HMLS, they are just better all around cause it can hit from 100km out with 700 dps easy sauce.
With twice the exp radius as t1 missile. And only on kinetic rats. Without kinetic dmg bonus, it goes down to 500 dps. Tengu can blitz some missions faster due to speed, but that's only compared to typical BS, it's hard to justify when a Mach goes at the same speed. Ok, you are comparing a pirate ship that is twice as skill intensive and 3 times the hull cost and who knows how much you'll spend on faction mods. Also, the explosion radius means absolutely nothing in your point. WIth good skills and a good fitting and good implants(t2 rigos, t2flares...a standard for PvE tengu) you will be hitting those rats at FULL. IN Angel Extravaganza i'm two hitting Bcs, 3 hitting frigs (with precision). Yeah sansha rats and missions suck, but you can easily skip those and i'm not really sure about this but i think you tend to get more of your races specific missions if you are in your factions space. So i'm caldari and i run all my missions out of the citadel.
"Skill intensive" is a relative term. Mach does not require a single lvl5 skill to fly. Yes, it will have 5% less dps with BS at lvl4, and yes, it's still far more dps than tengu. For T3, you don't only have lvl5 racial Cruiser as prerequisite, but also a dozen lvl5 skills for 5 subsystems skills, such as electronics, engineering, missile operation/gunnery, shield operation, navigation, mechanics, etc. Their attributes are all over the place, not just perception/willpower, further increasing training time. |
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 18:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
i have almost 0 projectile skillz. i can use small auto cannons i think
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Opprimo
Pride and Prestige
0
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Posted - 2011.12.11 21:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Speaking from experience don't give up on the tengu. As others have suggested there is a number of factors that could be causing you problems.-á
-skills : make sure you are maxed in missile skills if not then wait it out till you are.
-fittings : i personally changed from a raven to a tengu when I returned a month ago. I spared no expense and fire fury missiles at everything. I know I could improve by using precision and probably will but as it stands I kill frigates fast enough. Check your fit and make sure you don't have any big mistakes like to much tank. The tengu is smaller then a BS so doesn't need the same EHP and tank as a BS because it takes less damage by default because of smaller sig radius. (I will post mine when I get onto my laptop).
The number one improvement I have seen when changing to my tengu is speed of missions. People all get EFT out and min/max tank and DPS. But in practice that officer fit marauder that has 1000 DPS will take a year to finish a L4 full of frigates. A tengu has a great balance because I find. Yes there's ships that could kill BS's faster but that time would be lost by taking longer to kill smaller ships.
Finally try heavy missiles I don't have much experience with assault missiles but I think heavy are the way to go. |
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Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
312
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Posted - 2011.12.11 22:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dielax wrote:i have almost 0 projectile skillz. i can use small auto cannons i think
Large AC don't take long to train, unless it's t2 large AC with its lvl5 prerequisites. You won't be using barrage pve anyway, since it lacks damage type selection, and Mach already has 75km range with t1/faction ammo plus high speed. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
464
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 23:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaanchana wrote:did u by any chance mean HML? if so, CN missiles easily pop them frigs. But imo precision missiles are the best for frigs. It takes abt 6 volleys for a spider drone for me. and about the same for elite frigs..
2 T2 Rigors
1 T2 flare
T2 launchers
Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy missiles vs Spider Drones II takes me 3 volley and I'm far from being over skilled in missiles.
On bigger stuff just use T2 missiles.
Thing is that OP try to kill fast ships and small sign with Heavy Assault Missiles. Not good.
Heavy missiles everyday. |
hiporiko
Obscure Star
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 23:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:
And only on kinetic rats. Without kinetic dmg bonus, it goes down to 500 dps. Tengu can blitz some missions faster due to speed, but that's only compared to typical BS, it's hard to justify when a Mach goes at the same speed.
Kinetic bonused ships wreak havoc against Gallente, Serpentis, Angels, Caldari, Guristas, Minmatar, and Mercenaries. Oh wait.. that's almost every enemy in the game.
Non kinetic faction ammo is good for over 500 deeps, with T2 being over 600. Keep telling yourself the Tengu isn't worth it, while people continue to make billions flying one with almost zero effort. |
Sindjin Hawke
Drunk Chaos
Unprovoked Aggression
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 13:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
I love my Tengu. I use to fly a PVE Raven or a Passive Drake until I got into the Tengu... what a huge difference... I blow thru all LvL4's with ease. I fly in, immediately start burning away to maintain distance and target frigates first. The key to using the Tengu in PVE is speed and distance, thats why you want Heavy's vs. Heavy Assaults... nothing better than poppin those damn frigs from 90k. |
Mira Stargazer
Epic Warfare
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 20:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'm only using HAM on the Tengu when running "Damsel in distress", in every other mission HML. I also have two rigors fitted, no probs killing the frigs.
EDIT: My Tengu is among the cheapest as well, mainly T2. Still running fine in any lvl4, don't give up on it.
I have feelings, I can smile - and murder while! |
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 05:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
I should note, that after a few skills upped a bit that things are looking much better. I think in another few weeks its going to be fun as hell to fly.
It tanks awesome. And now that the firepower is comming up a bit I think it was money well spent.
It is definatly quicker thank my Navy Scorpion which is now my 2nd favorite ship in game. 
Still using HAM's btw. With Javelins I can get 35km's. And a little under 20 with normal t2's. With how quick it is
and the fact that I just tank the whole room distance doesn't matter and flying around keeps me occupied
and distracts the boringness off endless lvl 4's!
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
27
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 05:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
if you can kite the frig they will pulse their mwd to try and catch up to you (range is usually around 30km where they start to mwd), very easy to pop then, I usually don't bother swapping from Fury ammo for anything but a number of elite frigs. I assume that would be the only way to stay sane and use hams. my tengu uses a t2 rof and explosion velocity rigs, rather than rigors, so looking at that jav hams have better ex radius and slightly worse ex velocity, so it should work well. |
BearJews
YOU BETTER
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 03:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:BearJews wrote:Goose99 wrote:BearJews wrote: Train a lot of skills, must have t2 ammo. Use HMLS, they are just better all around cause it can hit from 100km out with 700 dps easy sauce.
With twice the exp radius as t1 missile. And only on kinetic rats. Without kinetic dmg bonus, it goes down to 500 dps. Tengu can blitz some missions faster due to speed, but that's only compared to typical BS, it's hard to justify when a Mach goes at the same speed. Ok, you are comparing a pirate ship that is twice as skill intensive and 3 times the hull cost and who knows how much you'll spend on faction mods. Also, the explosion radius means absolutely nothing in your point. WIth good skills and a good fitting and good implants(t2 rigos, t2flares...a standard for PvE tengu) you will be hitting those rats at FULL. IN Angel Extravaganza i'm two hitting Bcs, 3 hitting frigs (with precision). Yeah sansha rats and missions suck, but you can easily skip those and i'm not really sure about this but i think you tend to get more of your races specific missions if you are in your factions space. So i'm caldari and i run all my missions out of the citadel. "Skill intensive" is a relative term. Mach does not require a single lvl5 skill to fly. Yes, it will have 5% less dps with BS at lvl4, and yes, it's still far more dps than tengu. For T3, you don't only have lvl5 racial Cruiser as prerequisite, but also a dozen lvl5 skills for 5 subsystems skills, such as electronics, engineering, missile operation/gunnery, shield operation, navigation, mechanics, etc. Their attributes are all over the place, not just perception/willpower, further increasing training time.
It is, but we come from different hoods. This toon is an all around pilot so the skills i trained for the tengu were vital. I'm moving onto the nightmare. But for the cost, the skills you train, and the speed you do a lot of missions it makes it easier for someone to purchase it and move there way up. |
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