Basically you're saying the minmatar ships suck and I agree. Svipul is grossly OP, don't deny that and have stated many times it's the case. I've also stated confessor shouldn't be allowed to use 10mn ab. But that post I quoted was and is bad . And I stand by my previous statement(s). I also feel all AF's need to be looked at before they balance the T3D's because as it stands they're all pretty much crap and they were this way pre t3d's it's just blatantly obvious to even the most obtuse of individuals now.

While I'm here I'll say the Hecate is very well balanced imo and the jackdaw has to much tank and not enough dps.

You're completely wrong in every way. AF's were rarely used before and even less so now

(I agree the T3d's didn't help this one bit). They were "balanced" prior to the tiercide which was a long while ago and haven't been touched since. I know drugs in eve are good for you but no matter what anyone tells ist drugs irl are bad. Whatever drug you were on when you posted this I highly recommend you stop taking it asap.

And no the hecate does not need a nerf. The svipul needs one badly, the confessor needs to be tweaked and the jackdaw needs to be reworked so it has less tank more dps.

While you're at it, nerf the catalyst. Like, strip half its guns so it doesn't sit there as a 1mil hull pumping out 650dps.

*squints* Harvey.. is that you? Please stop focusing on just the dps of a t3d and take it all in.

Hecate is balanced as its incredibly slow and easy to scram kite that dps. If hecate uses sharpshooter then it sacrifices its tank bonus, which makes it considerably easier to kill. If it stays in tank mode, then it has very poor range. Then that 850dps drops quite quickly. Not to mention its very susceptible to neuts, both in max gank, dual web hull config or single/dual armor rep.

Ive killed every t3d and by far, the one that is the biggest pain in the ass is the svipul, as there is no obvious counter except neuting it to hell with dual webs to hold it. Hecates and jackdaws are easy to kill as well as both are slow with big sigs. The svipul is the main issue with t3d, all 4 dont need to suffer a nerf overhaul.

The catalyst has projection baked into the hull and doesnt need a mode switch to project that 650dps.

You are looking at the whole package, but are insinuating all the bonuses are available at the same time. Which is not the case.

A rail DD, arty jag, arty thrasher and other scram kite ships (if flown properly) could but a hecate in a bad position.

And no, i have never flown a hecate, ive just killed quite a few of them. So im not trying to prevent a nerf to my favorite ship. I just think nerfing the hecate will push it into an eft warriors wet dream when all they look at is dps. Then they take it out and realize its a joke.

The difference is closer to 4km with null. Which is huge in a frig fight when scram kiting. The catalyst can shoot about 250-300dps at scram range with null. More than enough to take down most frigs.

Hecate can swap into sharpshooter mode to get similar results (no falloff bonus though) and can hit the edge of scram with null loaded neutrons. To do this it sacrifices its tank bonuses. So id say thats a very reasonable trade off.

Once you "catch" your target. More likely when your target catches you. Dual prop fits are quite common, or just straight AB fits. Once the hecate is scrammed, its prop bonus is useless and can be escaped from assuming you have an AB. Hell ive scram kited hecates with a tornado. Goes like this. Hecate rams target, target scram/webs back and then coasts out of blaster optimal. Now its just a matter of either leaving the fight if you cant break him, or finish the fight.

You would fit a ab to a hecate? Thanks for showing up in this thread and thanks for making it clear what you know about them.

That is correct, because its range bonuses are baked into the hull. Something the hecate lacks. Prop/web catalysts are fairly common and overcome the whole needing 3 mid thing. Since most frigs wont last long against 500-600dps, having no scram is viable.

You do realize other ships have webs too right?

Again, this is more about pilot skill to beat a hecate. Which is why its balanced..

No they dont actually. Many frigs dont realize they arent pointed and fight to the end. Ive flown honor point fits frequently and youd be surprised how many dont realize they arent pointed.

Who said the web was isolated to a destroyer though?

Ganking or for bait fits. Newbro friendly or you just need a dps powerhouse for cheap and have support ships to cover the tackle aspect. I.E, frigate gang with a few catalysts to kill larger ships. Its fairly common in FW.. i know, i know. Things exist other than ganking in HS and roaming nullsec.

Based on your responses it's clear you are only out for blood and have no clue regarding balance of the T3ds.

T1 frigs really should never be able to stand up to T1 dessies, let alone T2 or T3. Dessies are meant to wipe out frigs, not be "a slightly tougher frig with a huge sig penalty". If I had to put it in numbers, I'd say that supposing equal abilities and equal fittings and skills learned, a 20 on 20 frig fight should end with 0 on one side and maybe 3 on the other. 20 frigs vs 20 dessies should end with 14 dessies left, if not more.

Just seen the newest changes to the T3Ds on Sissi.

I really do not understand why there have to be so many changes to the ships. It feels like an over-reactions, which will lead to these awesome ships not being used anymore. They are pretty expensive compared to an AF and even T2 destroyer.

I understand the speed change to eliminate the insta-warp feature. that makes a lot of sense. But do you really need to nerf the T3D to the ground?

And where is the official communication (dev blog, forum post) about these changes? That people need to find out about this by looking on the test server is very odd. Looks to me that these changes were rushed.....

Here is a summary on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/59eu2c/sisi_t3_destroyer_bonus_and_stat_changes_here/